PDA

View Full Version : Season 3 opinion after further consideration



SikanderAzam
08-27-2017, 04:47 PM
My initial feedback with season 3 was exclusively positive with the sole exception of the ballistas on sentinel, which I did and still do consider to be a ridiculous and completely unfair addition to the map that need to be not tweaked, but totally deleted. I still have mostly positive opinions on season 3, but now after playing it for a while I do have one significant complaint.

A lot of people have been complaining about HL and Glad having way too many unblockables, just as people said the same (and more) about cent in season 2 (and still do say that). While I agreed about centurion, I initially defended the balance of HL and Glad. My position has, with caveats, changed.

The problem that I see with all of the DLC characters isn't their crazy number of unblockables--it's their possession of highly effective unblockables that come from no guard direction that you can neither block nor parry in addition to the rest of their unblockable heavy moveset. And now that some people have learned HL and Glad's movesets fairly well, I'm starting to understand people's initial issues. HL essentially has a GB that is uncounterable, unblockable, and unparryable that guarantees a knockdown. That's pretty outrageous. Glad's dazing punch also has no direction so it can't be blocked or parried, and it's almost as bad as cent's punches and kicks--the spammability and excessively high effectiveness of which I'm now convinced is the real reason that most people who hate centurion hate centurion even if they haven't realized it.

If you want to give heroes unblockables, fine. I wish my main had an offensive unblockable. But the fact that all the DLC heroes were given moves that are literally unstoppable and the opponent facing them has to pray that they're lucky enough to have room to dodge away and hope the tracking doesn't hit them regardless does seem pretty indefensibly unfair to me. HL essentially consists of defending, feinting **** loads of UB heavies, then sneaking in his god-mode UB GB and slamming you for his crazy damaging heavy while you're on the ground. Glad basically consists of defending and dodging around trying to daze punch and skewer people. Centurion is pretty much someone running around trying to slam people into corners and unexploiting the punch to get a free kill or use the tracking kick to knock people down to initiate a devastating combo. The only DLC that doesn't totally depend on unparryable unblockables is Shinobi, and he does still have them and does use them very effectively.

Just my thoughts. Neither Glad nor HL are as bad as Cent, but the unparryable unblockables are a problem IMO.

Wolf-Heathen
08-27-2017, 05:36 PM
You've got to sell season passes somehow, bruh.

They DLC characters have so many more tools compared to the vanilla heros. They also attack faster, whereas the old heros you could punish on a whiff or a block, the dlc characters have already recovered and have a second attack coming at you before you can move in on them.

We.the.North
08-27-2017, 05:42 PM
As a Shinobi player, I'm growing more and more frustrated with the ungodly tracking of some attacks and the raise of "Hyper Armor" across the board.

- Kensei now has Hyper Armor on dodge attacks and the "zooming" he does while attacking prevents me from backflipping safely.

- Berserker now has Hyper Armor super fast and the Shinobi recovery frames are so bad, I can't dodge between attacks, I'll still get caught.

- Warlord has hyper armor of almost all hits(since he turtle + heavy attacks) and I can't punish a lot of them since he can immediately transition into a headbutt which also has some kind of hyper armor (or is just super fast and thus, almost impossible to interrupt with an attack).

- Highlander, while also having hyper armor, have a crazy "zooming" on celtic curse and will catch all assassin trying to back dodge, even some side dodge.


They DLC characters have so many more tools compared to the vanilla heros. They also attack faster, whereas the old heros you could punish on a whiff or a block, the dlc characters have already recovered and have a second attack coming at you before you can move in on them.

- Gladiator, while not having hyper armor, has almost no recovery frame and can chain attacks after attacks (even that sprint attack + punch) that prevents the Shinobi player from countering safely. Ranged GB after a backflip to escape a "whiff attack" wont even connect or will allow him to counter guard break ... while it works ON EVERY OTHER CHARACTERS IN THE GAME.

- Centurion .. dont even get me started on that piece of ****.


------------------------------------------------

TLDR : Trying to dodge as a Shinobi has never been that hard. Popular hero has Hyper Armor and Zooming attacks like crazy. Add Shinobi HP and that character is now garbage.

Playing my Shinobi at the moment in Dominion feels like playing my Valkyrie right after the initial round of nerf Ubisoft did to her.

The overpowered - underpowered spectrum has never been this large in For Honor.

Vakris_One
08-27-2017, 06:16 PM
I'm not sure if OP is serious or trolling when he says the Highlander's caber toss is OP and that his OF heavy after toss is "crazy damage"? I am genuinley lost for words...

Caber toss is ridiculously telegraphed even when feinted into from a Fom kick. Caber Toss by itself does no damage and the opponent being thrown is actually allowed to get up faster than from a Valkyrie's spear sweep. The supposedly guarranteed OF heavy after toss can actually be parried by assassin characters. And that's it for a punish from Caber Toss - 1 hit totalling a maximum of 30 damage. And that's only if you manage to land the Caber Toss, which you will not be doing unless your opponent is a complete noob or you got him off of a wall splat.

It is basically a completely inferior version of Shugo's Demon's Embrace - the HL does not get passive super armour with which to make Caber Toss uninterruptible, nor does he get a crazy amount of damage if he lands it successfully, nor does he regain health from it.

The Gladiator, you may have a point because he can be a slower character's worst nightmare. But against any of the Vanguards or characters with dodge strikes the Glad is manageable.

Vakris_One
08-27-2017, 06:29 PM
As a Shinobi player, I'm growing more and more frustrated with the ungodly tracking of some attacks and the raise of "Hyper Armor" across the board.

- Kensei now has Hyper Armor on dodge attacks and the "zooming" he does while attacking prevents me from backflipping safely.
No he doesn't. Kensei does not get hyper armour on his dodge strike.

Dodging around isn't the most effective way to fight even with characters that are built for it like Shinobi. It works against noobies just fine but against more experienced players it will usually lead to a quick death. You need a more patient and collected approach against more experienced players.

SikanderAzam
08-27-2017, 07:39 PM
You've got to sell season passes somehow, bruh.

They DLC characters have so many more tools compared to the vanilla heros. They also attack faster, whereas the old heros you could punish on a whiff or a block, the dlc characters have already recovered and have a second attack coming at you before you can move in on them.

It's really the only plausible reason that they haven't addressed some of the DLC issues. I didn't want to believe that a mainstream AAA game dev company would sink so low as to incorporate additional pay-to-win-like elements into a game that they already sold for $60 a pop to begin with. At this point, I really do think that they deliberate make the DLC heroes easier and more powerful to pigeonhole people into buying season passes though. After seeing how they've handled this game post-launch, I'll never buy another Ubisoft game. I've never seen such a dismissive attitude toward the player base and such poor execution from such a well established company. At least season 3 did fix some things though. At this point, we take whatever we can get I suppose.

SikanderAzam
08-27-2017, 07:43 PM
As a Shinobi player, I'm growing more and more frustrated with the ungodly tracking of some attacks and the raise of "Hyper Armor" across the board.

- Kensei now has Hyper Armor on dodge attacks and the "zooming" he does while attacking prevents me from backflipping safely.

- Berserker now has Hyper Armor super fast and the Shinobi recovery frames are so bad, I can't dodge between attacks, I'll still get caught.

- Warlord has hyper armor of almost all hits(since he turtle + heavy attacks) and I can't punish a lot of them since he can immediately transition into a headbutt which also has some kind of hyper armor (or is just super fast and thus, almost impossible to interrupt with an attack).

- Highlander, while also having hyper armor, have a crazy "zooming" on celtic curse and will catch all assassin trying to back dodge, even some side dodge.



- Gladiator, while not having hyper armor, has almost no recovery frame and can chain attacks after attacks (even that sprint attack + punch) that prevents the Shinobi player from countering safely. Ranged GB after a backflip to escape a "whiff attack" wont even connect or will allow him to counter guard break ... while it works ON EVERY OTHER CHARACTERS IN THE GAME.

- Centurion .. dont even get me started on that piece of ****.


------------------------------------------------

TLDR : Trying to dodge as a Shinobi has never been that hard. Popular hero has Hyper Armor and Zooming attacks like crazy. Add Shinobi HP and that character is now garbage.

Playing my Shinobi at the moment in Dominion feels like playing my Valkyrie right after the initial round of nerf Ubisoft did to her.

The overpowered - underpowered spectrum has never been this large in For Honor.

Yeah it's pretty weird. I still play Valkyrie just because I've committed, but there's really no good reason to play her. Ubi plays favorites in the most severe way possible. And as for "zooming" attacks, that's probably the #1 cause of me screaming at the screen. It drives me crazy when a raider or orochi 10 meters behind me mindlessly throws out a heavy then slides magically like their wearing roller skates to close the entire ****ing gap and stick an axe/sword in my back. And the speed differences are crazy too. I don't know if it's accurate, but I feel like DLC characters can heavy faster than I can light... And my heavies have to be twice as slow as theirs. Valk can't connect a heavy in real combat unless if follows a GB because it's so laughably slow and telegraphed.

We.the.North
08-27-2017, 10:37 PM
No he doesn't. Kensei does not get hyper armour on his dodge strike.

My bad, the hyper armor is on the following side heavy. Still ... it zooms like crazy and will hit a dodging Shinobi. I know it's not the best way to play Shinobi, but a dodge character like him shouldn't have such an unsafe dodge.

At this point, it isn't a poor choice of how to play him, it's the code behind For Honor that's all screwed up when a "dodge character" shouldn't dodge to play good.

UbiNoty
08-28-2017, 12:22 AM
Even if you aren't purchasing a season pass, you can still unlock the new heroes for any given season.

Please keep in perspective that the original 12 heroes are much older and were created much longer ago than the newer DLC heroes. And as we've gone along in the creation and development process we've learned things along the way - how to make things prettier, give heroes more depth and complexity, make heroes more interesting, and so on.

The new heroes can at times feel more developed because they are the results of us always pushing ourselves to evolve our process, make better heroes, and provide you all a more fun experience. It's our efforts to improve that you're seeing, not an intentional witholding of the old heroes. We've also expressed interest in potentially reworking some of the older heroes in the future when we have time (but we're also very preoccupied with the move to dedicated servers right now, so keep that in mind).

Your feedback on the unblockables of the new heroes and the impact that they have on gameplay balance is certainly something we can discuss, because we do want to preserve hero balance - and we'll do our best to make all heroes fair and balanced. But I did want to at least provide you with a little insight from our side of things, so we can try to prevent misunderstandings.

MyMotoMoustache
08-28-2017, 05:12 PM
Its nice that the dev team is learning from their mistakes but DLC pay-to-win power creep and disregard for the existing cast makes Ubisoft's priorities plain.

If Ubisoft really wants "to make all heroes fair and balanced" they should probably balance the initial cast first and not design new heroes that break the existing balance. Just a thought. You need look no further than the plight of Kensei to demonstrate how the "balancing" so far has been ineffective even without the DLC heroes.

I've pretty much lost hope. Season 3 for me was downloading 12GB then playing for an hour before mothballing my controller.

dekot11
08-28-2017, 07:17 PM
People have been complaining about UBs since season 1. Season 2 and 3 only added more UBs.