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View Full Version : Hero Cap in 4v4 should be addressed



BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 02:40 AM
Can we get a serious discussion on this? I don't see anything about it on the forums and I feel like this should be addressed due to how much cringe worthy unplayable cheese that hero stacking creates. Face it whiny brats who only know one hero and will quit if they dont get to play him, 2 centurions in your face is unbeatable and should not be a thing.

I think if there was a hero cap of 1 of the same hero per team, it would bring a much better over-all experience and allow for some people to explore neat combos that aren't Centurions uppercutting you and stabbing your entire life bar away or 4 lawbringers pan-caking you till your dead... Its not fun.

UbiJurassic
08-27-2017, 02:55 AM
Hero stacking has been a large point if discussion among community members. While some players believe it would solve the problems with hero stacking, others contest that hero choice shouldn't be limited due to most players choosing to main only one or two heroes. We'll continue to make the team aware that this is a popular point of discussion and forward the suggestion.

Vakris_One
08-27-2017, 03:10 AM
It would make 4v4s too restrictive and unfun. Having to wait until someone frees up the character you want to use at a given moment. Not being able to consistently use your main or level up another character whenever you want. And for what exactly?

Being owned by a gank squad is still being owned by a gank squad. Why does the make up of that gank squad matter so much to some people? Any mix of characters can quickly destroy you when you are outnumbered, they don't have to be the 4 Cents on Tour or the Shugokettes to do it.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 03:15 AM
Hero stacking has been a large point if discussion among community members. While some players believe it would solve the problems with hero stacking, others contest that hero choice shouldn't be limited due to most players choosing to main only one or two heroes. We'll continue to make the team aware that this is a popular point of discussion and forward the suggestion.

I'm also one of those people, I play only Nobushi and Shinobi and still think it would solve a lot of issues involving CC's but anyway even capping maybe 2 of the same hero per team would help a lot of things out.

Or make it so you cant hero stack in ranked mode. Hero stacking is an issue in pretty much any game that it happens, every game that had hero stacking has removed it due to how cheesy and unrefined it makes gameplay, while I would prefer there to be a hero cap of 1 on the same team in all game modes due to how unfun, and cheesy it is.... the ladder is acceptable.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 03:18 AM
It would make 4v4s too restrictive and unfun. Having to wait until someone frees up the character you want to use at a given moment. Not being able to consistently use your main or level up another character whenever you want. And for what exactly?

Being owned by a gank squad is still being owned by a gank squad. Why does the make up of that gank squad matter so much to some people? Any mix of characters can quickly destroy you when you are outnumbered, they don't have to be the 4 Cents on Tour or the Shugokettes to do it.

I think it would make 4v4's much MORE fun, it would involve more SKILL and COUNTERPLAY to get timings of people stuns down and reward yourself/team to combo with another stun or just a very damaging attack. The point of this change is to make things more restricting, and make you think more instead of the mindless meta we have going on right now,

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 03:22 AM
It would make 4v4s too restrictive and unfun. Having to wait until someone frees up the character you want to use at a given moment. Not being able to consistently use your main or level up another character whenever you want. And for what exactly?

Being owned by a gank squad is still being owned by a gank squad. Why does the make up of that gank squad matter so much to some people? Any mix of characters can quickly destroy you when you are outnumbered, they don't have to be the 4 Cents on Tour or the Shugokettes to do it.

Though you do have a point with the leveling up side of things, this change would make that a pain... I would say the best option is just remove hero stacking from ranked mode.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 03:29 AM
It would make 4v4s too restrictive and unfun. Having to wait until someone frees up the character you want to use at a given moment.

"Oh no, instead of having 2 MINDLESS centurions SPAMMING kicks and uppercuts while 2 raiders are SPAMMING heavies, I might have to THINK of hero combos that REQUIRE SOME SKILL & TIMING to kill people" *GASP*

Vakris_One
08-27-2017, 03:42 AM
I think it would make 4v4's much MORE fun, it would involve more SKILL and COUNTERPLAY to get timings of people stuns down and reward yourself/team to combo with another stun or just a very damaging attack. The point of this change is to make things more restricting, and make you think more instead of the mindless meta we have going on right now,


Though you do have a point with the leveling up side of things, this change would make that a pain... I would say the best option is just remove hero stacking from ranked mode.


"Oh no, instead of having 2 MINDLESS centurions SPAMMING kicks and uppercuts while 2 raiders are SPAMMING heavies, I might have to THINK of hero combos that REQUIRE SOME SKILL & TIMING to kill people" *GASP*
Why the 3 seperate responses?

Anywho, hero combo's that require timing and skill in a gank? There's very little difference between a mixed team being able to tear you apart without being idiots and hampering each other and a team of the same class doing it. It's really a non-issue in my opinion and is usually brought up because people have a certain personal dislike of a specific character doing them in, and when 2, 3 or 4 of that same character do them in it really rubs them the wrong way. God forbid one should actually learn to not expect to win 4v1s if they're done right.

CandleInTheDark
08-27-2017, 04:08 AM
The problem with this is that gearscore matters. Do you know how many xp it is for just one rep point? Over 30,000, that is more than 60 4v4 fights for each and every rep point. In order to get a character into top rarity gear a character has to be rep 7, so to get just one character into top gear that is more than 420 fights, anywhere from 6 minutes each if you're power levelling against bots with matchmaking turned on to 15-20 minutes in pvp.

In terms of time, there has been a double xp event this weekend so i have put in a few rep levels, it has taken four hours for each one this weekend, meaning eight hours per rep level normally meaning around 56 hours to get a character all the way to rep 7 and that is power levelling against ai. So let's do some math, people bringing this up with matchmaking as it is currently are saying they want people to do that at least twice or with single pick realistically four times to guarantee having a hero in top gear, so 224 hours, or nine and a third days of active play time if it were none stop, no sleeping, no eating, no working, no socialising, no resting. Some people want to go even further and also have a hero ban system, so that would be five characters, 280 hours which is eleven and two thirds days active play time. And before you say oh but you can't possibly have three people use two or three heroes you use, you should only need two, I have been on teams made up entirely of heroes I use, it does need to be four with single pick five if they add a ban.

People say oh there are contract orders, and indeed there are, a limited number every 48 hours that still take time to do, even then you're looking at a good chunk of time. Tell a new player coming in that you have to grind for nine to eleven days of active play time to not risk being underpowered in a pvp and you are going to lose that player, that is why hero caps should not be a thing.And ultimately what do you fix? A character that is a problem in 1vx will be a problem whoever the other character they are working with is.

seaners95
08-27-2017, 05:08 AM
Why is this even a topic of discussion? This isn't siege.

That game requires an operator cap because 5 of the same operator would literally make every game one sided and the game would be broken as ****. That's a game where, separately, individual operators are balanced (most of the time, I think they're still having issues with one or two of them being OP) but stacked up in a team of five people all as the same operator=broke af.

In this game, I can take on a team of Cents, Shugos, PK's etc. and still anticipate a victory because this game is based on how well you use your character and how well you and/or your team work together to achieve that victory. Yeah it ****ing sucks getting ganked by 4 cents at the same time but as long as you have a team to back you up and you play together you still have a chance to **** em up.

each hero requires a different strategy to beat as far as combat is concerned, so if you're up against a stacked team then it should be easy to determine that whatever you normally do, you'll just have to multiply that effort and hope your teammates do the same.

In short, no, hero cap is not a good idea. At least not for the game modes we have. If they want to make a game mode later on that requires specific strategy and limits you to one pick, then great, but until then, please don't touch my ability to use the only two mains I'm good with currently. Not everybody has the time to play this game damn near religiously.

Alustar.
08-27-2017, 12:05 PM
After having played Battleborn through till it died, I can't support either the hero cap or the ban systems.

Hero cap worked in Battleborn because there where more heros to choose from and also that combat roles were stressed heavily there. A team not consisting of some type of support class would get outplayed by teams with proper group mechanics.

Then came the attempt at hero banning, which only caused more incomplete matches as people were not wanting to be parted with their main.

A big part of this had to do with hero progression. I know for a fact I can use 2 heros effectively right mow, the fastest way to ruin this game for me would be to limit when and where I can play as I choose. I'd just end up quitting and moving

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 03:49 PM
Why is this even a topic of discussion? This isn't siege.

That game requires an operator cap because 5 of the same operator would literally make every game one sided and the game would be broken as ****. That's a game where, separately, individual operators are balanced (most of the time, I think they're still having issues with one or two of them being OP) but stacked up in a team of five people all as the same operator=broke af.

In this game, I can take on a team of Cents, Shugos, PK's etc. and still anticipate a victory because this game is based on how well you use your character and how well you and/or your team work together to achieve that victory. Yeah it ****ing sucks getting ganked by 4 cents at the same time but as long as you have a team to back you up and you play together you still have a chance to **** em up.

each hero requires a different strategy to beat as far as combat is concerned, so if you're up against a stacked team then it should be easy to determine that whatever you normally do, you'll just have to multiply that effort and hope your teammates do the same.

In short, no, hero cap is not a good idea. At least not for the game modes we have. If they want to make a game mode later on that requires specific strategy and limits you to one pick, then great, but until then, please don't touch my ability to use the only two mains I'm good with currently. Not everybody has the time to play this game damn near religiously.

Put 4 Centurions against 4 Nobushis or Shinobis and the Centurion is almost guaranteed to win, thats the kind of problem hero stacking creates... Centurion and Lawbringers are so effective when there is 4 stacked together that literally every other class in the game is almost unplayable when compared to them, like I said... If they come out with ranked, thats where they should implement a hero cap and actually make people use their brains and think about who combos well with who.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 03:53 PM
Why the 3 seperate responses?

Anywho, hero combo's that require timing and skill in a gank? There's very little difference between a mixed team being able to tear you apart without being idiots and hampering each other and a team of the same class doing it. It's really a non-issue in my opinion and is usually brought up because people have a certain personal dislike of a specific character doing them in, and when 2, 3 or 4 of that same character do them in it really rubs them the wrong way. God forbid one should actually learn to not expect to win 4v1s if they're done right.

Theres a HUGE difference, at least those 4 people had to coordinate their moves and time them well if they don't want me to get away and they can at least have the right to say there some resemblance of skill. Centurions and Lawbringers can stop you from moving permanently by spamming the same 200MS move over and over again while taking literally 0 skill, 0 timing, just spam spam spam and you win. If the ladder is okay with you then we have no reason to talk any further.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 04:04 PM
Why the 3 seperate responses?

Anywho, hero combo's that require timing and skill in a gank? There's very little difference between a mixed team being able to tear you apart without being idiots and hampering each other and a team of the same class doing it. It's really a non-issue in my opinion and is usually brought up because people have a certain personal dislike of a specific character doing them in, and when 2, 3 or 4 of that same character do them in it really rubs them the wrong way. God forbid one should actually learn to not expect to win 4v1s if they're done right.

The reason for the 3 separate responses were because I was on my phone commenting and accidently sent the first one early, so I finished it with a second message. Then the third came because I didnt notice you said what I quoted, so I replied to that directly lol.

PablO_Chaconn
08-27-2017, 04:22 PM
No ! Just no . I Can't play a certain character just because you don't like going up against more then 2 characters you don't no how to play against!

I don't have a problem getting ganked , I no I'm an above average player and no how to keep out of them situations . The only reason I get ganked is when iv got a shocking team who don't no what they are doing but Yano S....t happens .

This is just a case of get good

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 04:34 PM
No ! Just no . I Can't play a certain character just because you don't like going up against more then 2 characters you don't no how to play against!

I don't have a problem getting ganked , I no I'm an above average player and no how to keep out of them situations . The only reason I get ganked is when iv got a shocking team who don't no what they are doing but Yano S....t happens .

This is just a case of get good

Everything is a case of get good to this community and is probably a huge contributor why the game is dying, this game by far has one of the worst communities ive seen. At the point where pros will even tell you that some classes are unbeatable if 4 of them are stacked up, theres gotta be a problem. You cant nerf these characters because they're already meh in 1v1's, so a hero limit to prevent unbeatable cheese or buffing other class to be unbeatable cheese.

Vakris_One
08-27-2017, 04:38 PM
Put 4 Centurions against 4 Nobushis or Shinobis and the Centurion is almost guaranteed to win, thats the kind of problem hero stacking creates... Centurion and Lawbringers are so effective when there is 4 stacked together that literally every other class in the game is almost unplayable when compared to them, like I said... If they come out with ranked, thats where they should implement a hero cap and actually make people use their brains and think about who combos well with who.
Not if you face them as a team rather than being caught in an outnumbered situation. I've played against Lawbringer teams and Cent teams and Shin teams and even a Shugo team. The only one that was near enough unstopable when doing a full on 4v4 was the Shug team because of their super armour. You have to continually focus down a Shugo engaging Demon's Embrace to either disrupt them or kill them before they catch a teammate.

The other clone teams are manageable if you also work as a team and stay together.


Theres a HUGE difference, at least those 4 people had to coordinate their moves and time them well if they don't want me to get away and they can at least have the right to say there some resemblance of skill. Centurions and Lawbringers can stop you from moving permanently by spamming the same 200MS move over and over again while taking literally 0 skill, 0 timing, just spam spam spam and you win. If the ladder is okay with you then we have no reason to talk any further.
Everyone has to coordinate their moves and time them well in order to successfully pull off an efficient gank. I fundamentally disagree that it is somehow more skillfull if you are ganked by a mixed team rather than a clone team. A gang bang is still a gang bang by any other name.

If Ubi want to trial character caps in ranked 4v4s then that will be interesting to see how it will pan out. In the regular modes though, I wouldn't want to see it as it offers no real improvement while it takes away variety, convenience and practicality (for leveling up characters when you want to).

PablO_Chaconn
08-27-2017, 04:46 PM
Everything is a case of get good to this community and is probably a huge contributor why the game is dying, this game by far has one of the worst communities ive seen. At the point where pros will even tell you that some classes are unbeatable if 4 of them are stacked up, theres gotta be a problem. You cant nerf these characters because they're already meh in 1v1's, so a hero limit to prevent unbeatable cheese or buffing other class to be unbeatable cheese.

Well I don't struggle as much as everyone makes out they do . So yh it is get good

SikanderAzam
08-27-2017, 04:55 PM
I agree that this would make 4v4 restrictive, but the problem is I also agree that they're really no good reason to ever play more than 3-4 heroes because they're so much better than the rest. Stacking exacerbates this.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 04:56 PM
Not if you face them as a team rather than being caught in an outnumbered situation. I've played against Lawbringer teams and Cent teams and Shin teams and even a Shugo team. The only one that was near enough unstopable when doing a full on 4v4 was the Shug team because of their super armour. You have to continually focus down a Shugo engaging Demon's Embrace to either disrupt them or kill them before they catch a teammate.

The other clone teams are manageable if you also work as a team and stay together.


Everyone has to coordinate their moves and time them well in order to successfully pull off an efficient gank. I fundamentally disagree that it is somehow more skillfull if you are ganked by a mixed team rather than a clone team. A gang bang is still a gang bang by any other name.

If Ubi want to trial character caps in ranked 4v4s then that will be interesting to see how it will pan out. In the regular modes though, I wouldn't want to see it as it offers no real improvement while it takes away variety, convenience and practicality (for leveling up characters when you want to).

No, 4 centurions/gladiators dont have to coordinate anything. 3 cents can spam kick to no end while the 4th damages and stuns+damage will remain constant as long as your pressing the buttons, no communication needed, heck and gladiators can probably do it without hands let alone communication. Lawbringers do have to coordinate their pan-cake flips, I will say that much.

Say there was a hero cap in ranked or whatever, people would have to explore stuns and recoveries on different characters to get maximum compatibility. For example Warden can engage a target with shoulder bash and a 2 tap combo, and after/during the 2 tap Shinobi pulls him into a Shugoki and holds him still with sickle rain while Shugoki picks him up and Nobushi bombs him with top heavies. It would just feel like theres more strategy involved then having 2 people spam a kick, and the other 2 spam unblockable heavies all coming from the same character. With the former, you'll have to get used to each persons stun duration/recovery and attack accordingly... and if its a group fight, that would make things even more fun >:D

Im sure people can come up with mindless things to do even with a hero cap, but nothing can be more mindless than spamming centurions/gladiators using the same 2 moves over and over again.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 05:00 PM
I agree that this would make 4v4 restrictive, but the problem is I also agree that they're really no good reason to ever play more than 3-4 heroes because they're so much better than the rest. Stacking exacerbates this.

With our current game modes, it would cause more issues than solve, thats why I say add a hero cap in ranked...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way though. Theres just no denying, 4 Centurions/Gladiators/Lawbringers is pretty much guaranteed to win a fight against 4 of any other class in the game

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 05:01 PM
Well I don't struggle as much as everyone makes out they do . So yh it is get good

Its not about struggling, its about how boring it makes the game and how unrefined it feels.

CandleInTheDark
08-27-2017, 05:01 PM
Everything is a case of get good to this community and is probably a huge contributor why the game is dying, this game by far has one of the worst communities ive seen. At the point where pros will even tell you that some classes are unbeatable if 4 of them are stacked up, theres gotta be a problem. You cant nerf these characters because they're already meh in 1v1's, so a hero limit to prevent unbeatable cheese or buffing other class to be unbeatable cheese.

And again, why should the devs make the game more of a catchup grind for new players who already need to play for around 56 hours (and that is against bots, not getting to fight people) to get one hero into the top ranked gear? Want to know how many 4 man centurion teams I have faced in dominion? Absolutely zero, none, not even when they were shiny and new. A few full centurion and shinobi teams right back at season 2 launch but as far as I can see it isn't that common a thing and you basically want to screw over anyone new to the game for something that happens maybe once in a hundred times.

Specialkha
08-27-2017, 05:12 PM
Maybe if some hero were less OP in 4v4, ppl would pick them less...

Vakris_One
08-27-2017, 05:55 PM
With our current game modes, it would cause more issues than solve, thats why I say add a hero cap in ranked...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way though. Theres just no denying, 4 Centurions/Gladiators/Lawbringers is pretty much guaranteed to win a fight against 4 of any other class in the game
Why do you keep stating this as if it is an undeniable fact when it is really only your opinion? I have beaten teams of Cents and Lawbros and I am a pug player. The fact I have done this denies your claim.

You are perfectly entitled to have an opinion but please stop portraying your personal opinion as if it is an undisputable fact. Your opinion is fair enough but the hyperbolic statements you keep repeating are letting your arguments down.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 06:58 PM
Why do you keep stating this as if it is an undeniable fact when it is really only your opinion? I have beaten teams of Cents and Lawbros and I am a pug player. The fact I have done this denies your claim.

You are perfectly entitled to have an opinion but please stop portraying your personal opinion as if it is an undisputable fact. Your opinion is fair enough but the hyperbolic statements you keep repeating are letting your arguments down.

At my MMR, (being matched against people like Sypher and other high level streamers) you are not gonna have much success being able to beat a stack of 4 meta heroes with a stack of 4 non-meta heroes, you might get lucky a couple games... but 9x out of 10 the meta will win, thats how dominant the meta is in this game, and stacking them just makes it even more powerful. Any top tier player will say the same.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 06:59 PM
And again, why should the devs make the game more of a catchup grind for new players who already need to play for around 56 hours (and that is against bots, not getting to fight people) to get one hero into the top ranked gear? Want to know how many 4 man centurion teams I have faced in dominion? Absolutely zero, none, not even when they were shiny and new. A few full centurion and shinobi teams right back at season 2 launch but as far as I can see it isn't that common a thing and you basically want to screw over anyone new to the game for something that happens maybe once in a hundred times.

They shouldn't, this is why I said add a hero cap to RANKED mode after people made fair points about leveling and what not.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 07:01 PM
Maybe if some hero were less OP in 4v4, ppl would pick them less...

The issue is, heroes like Lawbringer and Centurion are pretty easily dealt with in 1v1's so nerfing them when they dont need to be is uhh... gonna cause more balance issues than solve.

CandleInTheDark
08-27-2017, 07:02 PM
They shouldn't, this is why I said add a hero cap to RANKED mode after people made fair points about leveling and what not.

And if ranked has gear score then again, same boat, people need more than one character levelled to be competitive, and that is assuming they can play more than one or two.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 07:26 PM
And if ranked has gear score then again, same boat, people need more than one character levelled to be competitive, and that is assuming they can play more than one or two.

I think a needed requirement is if you want to play a hero in ranked, you need to have that hero rep 3.

- Hopefully they just listen to the pros and disable gear
- For ranked alone: Give the selected hero max gear score, and let them choose the stats they want.

Vakris_One
08-27-2017, 07:38 PM
At my MMR, (being matched against people like Sypher and other high level streamers) you are not gonna have much success being able to beat a stack of 4 meta heroes with a stack of 4 non-meta heroes, you might get lucky a couple games... but 9x out of 10 the meta will win, thats how dominant the meta is in this game, and stacking them just makes it even more powerful. Any top tier player will say the same.
If you are getting matched up against players of Sypher's level would it not be the case that they are really good players rather than a case of the unbeatable meta? Also, by your own reasoning that Cent and LB teams are guarranteed the win would that not mean that if you premade a team of Cents or LBs against a team of mixed players of Sypher's skill level, your team would win?

P.S. I decided to check out your stats on the FH Tracker:

https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/BTTrinity

According to those stats your MMR is actually a lot lower than mine and yet you say you are encountering Sypher and others from the top competitive players regularly?

Alustar.
08-27-2017, 07:58 PM
I have quite a bit of experience running solo against gank squads, and honestly even the premade groups that run the same class (I'm looking at you raiders. -_-) just end up being a victim of their own cheese mechanics. It's frustrating till you figure out the sweet spot but it is manageable. And in my opinion easier. The heros have roles for a reason and a group that is heavy with even one role suffers from that. Knowing the weaknesses of these groupings goes a long way to dealing with them.

Always remember blocking/parrying comes easier with external attacks, just force them to be overly aggressive enough to get your hits in while you can, then when your revenge hits, time it to maximize group punishment. Trust me nothing irritates a group more than a singular opponent that's taking more time to kill.

Specialkha
08-27-2017, 08:01 PM
Ask yourself the right question. WHich hero become a problem when there is more than 1 on one side?

Then nerf that character so it is no longer an issue. Problem solved.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 08:05 PM
If you are getting matched up against players of Sypher's level would it not be the case that they are really good players rather than a case of the unbeatable meta? Also, by your own reasoning that Cent and LB teams are guarranteed the win would that not mean that if you premade a team of Cents or LBs against a team of mixed players of Sypher's skill level, your team would win?

P.S. I decided to check out your stats on the FH Tracker:

https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/BTTrinity

According to those stats your MMR is actually a lot lower than mine and yet you say you are encountering Sypher and others from the top competitive players regularly?

You seem to completely disregard the MAJOR balance issues this game has, so no its not just a case of good players (It certainly helps, dont get me wrong) but the top 5 classes are so much better than the rest, that theres almost no reason to use anything but them and when you stack them top 5 classes against anything else thats not top tier... the meta is almost guaranteed to win, off meta heroes would stand a much better chance in group fights if theres gonna be a hero cap.

P.S. considering I just started playing the game for the first time thursday since S2 started, yeah my stats r probably low, especially when running around doing terrible with Shinobi for the last... way to many games. Yes, ive been matched against top tier players quite a bit, not since my return honestly... but still doesnt change that meta heroes are FAR FAR FAR Stronger than non meta heroes when stacked up.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 08:08 PM
P.S. I decided to check out your stats on the FH Tracker:

https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/BTTrinity

According to those stats your MMR is actually a lot lower than mine and yet you say you are encountering Sypher and others from the top competitive players regularly?

Nor does it change that the top competitive players would agree with hero stacking exacerbating the current "Meta" issue

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 08:09 PM
Ask yourself the right question. WHich hero become a problem when there is more than 1 on one side?

Then nerf that character so it is no longer an issue. Problem solved.

If you're gonna go down that route... it would be a much better option to buff everything thats bad, to be just as ridiculous as the top 5.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 08:13 PM
If you are getting matched up against players of Sypher's level would it not be the case that they are really good players rather than a case of the unbeatable meta? Also, by your own reasoning that Cent and LB teams are guarranteed the win would that not mean that if you premade a team of Cents or LBs against a team of mixed players of Sypher's skill level, your team would win?

P.S. I decided to check out your stats on the FH Tracker:

https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/BTTrinity

According to those stats your MMR is actually a lot lower than mine and yet you say you are encountering Sypher and others from the top competitive players regularly?

Not gonna lie, this website is showing stats FAR off from what I see in game... for all of my classes. So allow me to completely disregard this website is garbage, and ignore anything anyone points out about it.

Specialkha
08-27-2017, 08:22 PM
If you're gonna go down that route... it would be a much better option to buff everything thats bad, to be just as ridiculous as the top 5.

That would be Power Creep, and it is not that good.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 08:24 PM
That would be Power Creep, and it is not that good.

Actually, for Fighters it works very well. EVERYTHING should be ridiculous in its own right, not just Lawbringer, Cent, Glad, Warlord and PK

mrmistark
08-27-2017, 08:39 PM
The BIGGEST problem with this and why I don't support it what so ever is ORDERS. That's great, sure force everyone to play only 1 of each character, but oh no, someone picked the hero I wanted to reach an order with because I'm trying to get it to rep 7 so I will have at least an even fight against most players. Now your game is down at least probably 2-3 players because now they have a "play x amount of games" and need 1 more, but now someone took that hero so I have to quite and rejoin he annoying matchmaking process just to allow that order on the hero I'm trying to level. have fun with your crap match because now 1 team has 2 bots.

Sorry but what an idiotic idea. Connections bad enough.

Edit* also with me rejoining the matchmaking process there's no guarantee I'll even be able to get the hero I want to level with this order yet again, you're basically wanting to screw over who knows? Depending on the popularity of character that could be 1-x number of matches I'm potentially making unfun due to it being lopsided from one team having another bot or god forbid a disconnect. What were you trying to accomplish again? More "fun" in dominion because you can't handle 2 characters at once? You're going to make it unplayable. It's fine as is.

Vakris_One
08-27-2017, 08:57 PM
You seem to completely disregard the MAJOR balance issues this game has, so no its not just a case of good players (It certainly helps, dont get me wrong) but the top 5 classes are so much better than the rest, that theres almost no reason to use anything but them and when you stack them top 5 classes against anything else thats not top tier... the meta is almost guaranteed to win, off meta heroes would stand a much better chance in group fights if theres gonna be a hero cap.

P.S. considering I just started playing the game for the first time thursday since S2 started, yeah my stats r probably low, especially when running around doing terrible with Shinobi for the last... way to many games. Yes, ive been matched against top tier players quite a bit, not since my return honestly... but still doesnt change that meta heroes are FAR FAR FAR Stronger than non meta heroes when stacked up.
I'm not disregarding the balancing issues simply by disagreeing with you that ganks by clone teams are somehow more potent than ganks by mixed teams. I am simply disagreeing with your opinion because my experience is different. There is a difference. I simply do not find it any harder to fight against clone teams than mixed teams, therefore I see hero caps as a non-issue. That's not the same as disregarding the fact that Centurion needs to be looked at and that the defensive meta needs to be patched out so that we can see much more clearly where all of the roster stands and THEN make changes to them individually as and if needed. Certain top tier heroes are currently kings in large part due to either the defensive meta or because of unlock exploits.

I would honestly be interested to see a ranked 4v4 mode without gear stats and possibly a hero cap just as an experiment to see what happen. But I don't want to see a hero cap in the normal modes for reasons I have already stated in previous posts.


Nor does it change that the top competitive players would agree with hero stacking exacerbating the current "Meta" issue
I honestly couldn't care less what the top competitive player's opinion is on this. Their calibre of play style as was showcased in the Tournament did not impress me one bit, it was honestly an embarrassment to watch. In any other fighting game where this stuff is banned from tournaments I would respect the top competitive players for their skill, but not this one. Not as long as exploits are counted in official tournaments and top tier players are expected to exploit the game to win.

When/if For Honor gets properly balanced you will see different people being at the top.


Not gonna lie, this website is showing stats FAR off from what I see in game... for all of my classes. So allow me to completely disregard this website is garbage, and ignore anything anyone points out about it.
Fair enough. I have no idea how this website gathers its data and it's definitely not perfect but it's generally in the same ball park when I look at my own stats.

BTTrinity
08-27-2017, 10:21 PM
I'm not disregarding the balancing issues simply by disagreeing with you that ganks by clone teams are somehow more potent than ganks by mixed teams. I am simply disagreeing with your opinion because my experience is different. There is a difference. I simply do not find it any harder to fight against clone teams than mixed teams, therefore I see hero caps as a non-issue. That's not the same as disregarding the fact that Centurion needs to be looked at and that the defensive meta needs to be patched out so that we can see much more clearly where all of the roster stands and THEN make changes to them individually as and if needed. Certain top tier heroes are currently kings in large part due to either the defensive meta or because of unlock exploits.

I would honestly be interested to see a ranked 4v4 mode without gear stats and possibly a hero cap just as an experiment to see what happen. But I don't want to see a hero cap in the normal modes for reasons I have already stated in previous posts.

Fair enough, from my experience cloning meta heroes seems to be the most effective strat due to how easy they are all to play, and how fast their CC's are.


I honestly couldn't care less what the top competitive player's opinion is on this. Their calibre of play style as was showcased in the Tournament did not impress me one bit, it was honestly an embarrassment to watch. In any other fighting game where this stuff is banned from tournaments I would respect the top competitive players for their skill, but not this one. Not as long as exploits are counted in official tournaments and top tier players are expected to exploit the game to win.

When/if For Honor gets properly balanced you will see different people being at the top.

Lmao, I really hope so man... What the top players do is shameful, which is why I'm quite fond of Sypher since hes always played without exploiting.


Fair enough. I have no idea how this website gathers its data and it's definitely not perfect but it's generally in the same ball park when I look at my own stats.

Yeah, I dont know either... I do know I dont like what I see lol.

I know Im bad at Shinobi and PK but my Nobushi and Warden should both have around 65-70% winrates and a 1.5k/d (Warden) and 2.0k/d (Baeshi)