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View Full Version : Question for Warrior's Den : Renown Gain per Class



We.the.North
08-27-2017, 02:40 AM
I'm curious about the "data" regarding Renown Gain per class.

It looks to me some classes gain so much more Renown faster and thus, unlock their feat much, much faster. Is there any data regarding this ?? Which class gains the most renown in a match on average and any plans on balancing that while you keep working on the other hero balance changes ??

UbiJurassic
08-27-2017, 02:52 AM
Those are excellent questions. I do know that certain classes will gain renown faster for performing certain actions. For example, heavies will gain more renown when guarding a point than other classes and assassins will gain more renown from takedowns. I'll certainly see if we can pull any data regarding this for a future stream.

We.the.North
08-27-2017, 03:07 AM
Ya, I know that and it's actually good design. I love classes having a specific role to play in a game. But it seems like asasssins for instance gain renown much more slowly than other classes on average. I've seen Warlord and Lawbringer break 1000 renown often. I've never seen an assassin reach that high.

So I'm curious if the "renown gain per specific actions" are well balanced between the classes.

bmason1000
08-27-2017, 05:08 AM
I've had winning games with a positive k/d and a couple captures and never unlocked my 4th feat. Guess i wasn't assassinating enough? I have gotten over a thousand before though with an assassin, must have seriously been on fire those rounds.

MyStach
08-27-2017, 05:15 AM
You now dominion is not based on kill right ? so ofc pts based actions give more score
ALSO in game score and renown are different things
You earn 30-50 ish renow by kill in 1v1 as assassin but you never got the same amount as score. Same goes for pts boost, only 1 minion = 1 renown and 1 score pts

As Jurrrasic said, Heavy earn 2 renown/s on zones, vanguard 2 by minions and assassin 10 ish by kill/assist BUT this is only for the "feats xp" not the scoreboard

We.the.North
08-27-2017, 02:14 PM
You now dominion is not based on kill right ?

Yes, we know all that.

What I mean is : If an assassin spend his whole game farming 1v1 kills while a heavy boost all game, will they end up with the same amount of renown ?? To me, it seems like the assassin will always end up assisting their teamate and thus, will barely ever get his bonus for 1v1. Meanwhile, Heavy and such get massive bonus or boosting and getting assists.

It's the kind of question one player alone can't answer. We need massive data to check if the "average assassin" earns as much renown as the "average heavy" doing what they do in a Dominion match.

To me, I would like assassin to receive their bonus renown NOT for 1v1 kills, but for assisting and ganking other players.

Specialkha
08-27-2017, 02:51 PM
Lawl, do you really thing Bugisoft would have been able to balance something right? Look this game, looh the Division, True balanced overall.

Butonfly
08-27-2017, 03:04 PM
I feel renown gain needs to be normalized, or feat's need to be unlocked based on something else, even depending on the game mode.

One problem with the current design is that feat unlocks result in a swing of power, usually gained by taking an early lead anyway. Thus those who come out on top initially continue to advance in power from feat unlocks, while those without fall behind.

But there's other things to consider. An assassin will gain his renown from winning 1v1's, but in the 4v4 modes you're often getting teammates getting involved and/or kill stealing, which undermines your ability to progress. There's also more risk for less reward, especially considering a Heavy is rewarded by NOT engaging opponents and sitting idly on a capped point.

Then you have hybrids like Highlander who has a balance of renown gain across all activities. Often, due to circumstance, the result is you get a weak gain from any given activity that never adds up to much over time.

While I like the the idea of different approaches, I'm often left wanting a normalized approach. In Skirmish for example, a time gated unlock for all players, one feat every minute for example. For Elimination, the first feat unlocked and 1 new feat unlocked for each of the three rounds after that. Dominion needs either time gated, or everybody on a balanced gain. Alternatively 'renown' could be awarded based on setbacks, granting boons as a means of comeback power/potential to help give the loosing team a boost, rather than a winning team a dominant advantage.

Currently renown and feat unlocks aren't the best they could be.

We.the.North
08-27-2017, 03:33 PM
Currently renown and feat unlocks aren't the best they could be.

I agree. Hence the reason I want to start a discussion about this so we know if Developpers have any plans moving forward regarding this. We've been talking for a very long time about the defensive meta fixes ... but I feel like everything else (including hero balance) is on ice while the parry fix is waiting to be implemented.

God those balance fix are slow.

bmason1000
08-27-2017, 04:32 PM
I don't know that I'd like a time lock approach in dominion. Gaining your feats is what you earn for playing well and I'm of the opinion the system should maintain that spirit

Butonfly
08-28-2017, 01:07 AM
I don't know that I'd like a time lock approach in dominion. Gaining your feats is what you earn for playing well and I'm of the opinion the system should maintain that spirit

Balance is the chief concern.

How do you define 'playing well'? Defeating your enemy and gaining a higher point tick over the enemy team, right? Playing the objective, in other words.

It's interesting to note, though, that the 4v4 mode lends itself to a normal situation where, once a fight becomes unbalanced (and this is from the very first opening engagement) a numbers advantage presents itself. Whichever team gains this number advantage has, by sheer nature, an easier time. They're then rewarded for that easier time with greater gains in renown (among other things). Renown leads to an advantage in power (feats), power leads to an advantage in overall team effectiveness. It gets easier and easier to/for "playing well".

There's a very obvious downside or flaw to the current system.

Butonfly
08-28-2017, 01:13 AM
Another option is to just have all feats unlocked from the start in Dominion. You could put active feats on immediate cool down. You could reward strong play by granting -10 seconds off actives for executions if you wanted that sort of thing. Though many feats are controversial already.

We.the.North
08-28-2017, 03:18 AM
Another option is to just have all feats unlocked from the start in Dominion. You could put active feats on immediate cool down. You could reward strong play by granting -10 seconds off actives for executions if you wanted that sort of thing. Though many feats are controversial already.

That would actually not be a bad idea. Starting with all feats unlocked, but on cooldown. It would also give a chance for the dev team to pass over every feats and balance them accordingly.

But one thing for sure I like : the winning team at the start of the game wouldn't be able to snowball as hard anymore, giving the losing team a better chance to make a come back.

Vordred
08-28-2017, 03:45 AM
yeah, this is something that always bugged me, not just in this game, but in many others too.

where the game basically says, "Hey, you're winning. I'll give you something to make winning even easier"

personally, for me, I would rather see all active feats removed (as most are just used for cheap kills), and replaced by more Passive feats, that allow you to customise your character and play style more. and have them all unlocked from the start or the match.