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View Full Version : how nerf parry without nerf the parry system, UBI read this is important



matt89connor
08-25-2017, 10:27 AM
for the new defensive meta patch( i hope come soon, ) the parry should be nerfed but, with this idea, the defense will be good but not OP.

first we have to divide the hores in 2 categories:

1) HEROES WITH COUNTERATTACKS AFTER PARRY:

- this heroes (like LB and WL) after the parry they will not have the GB guaranteed because they have the moveset to counterattack after parry, in their list (even the shinobi has a counter), so they can't have the GB after parry, they can try, but isn't garantee.

2) HEROES WITH NO COUNTER ATTACKS AFTER PARRY:

-after the parry , they will have GB garanteed but they don't have the heavy garantee after the GB (only in that case heavy isn't garanteed after GB I want to be specific, to avoid misunderstandings). Many of this hero they have a special attacks after GB ( nobushi has bleed attack after projection, valk has the sweep after projection in their list of moveset. Rder and PK are ok with this "nerf", orochi has the dubble lights etc..) so there will be different tattics with different hero.

exception to the rule: kensei after parry has the GB but can only have garantee the top heavy because he don't have any type of attacks garanteed.

conclusion: the parry is the most important part of art of war sys, it can change the tide of battle and duel, so i hope you like this idea, and UBI read this

matt89connor
08-25-2017, 10:28 AM
sorry for bad ENG, i've finish at work just 15 minutes ago XD, if you don't understand something, write here

Knight_Raime
08-25-2017, 10:35 AM
As I have pointed out to you before giving a GB to anyone off of any parry is inherently a problem because it gives you control of the enemies position. You could wall splat them for extra damage which entirely nullifies your point about them not being able to land a heavy after GBing them. Or you could just ledge them.

In the best possible outcome GB's should only be landing in a 1v1 in one of two situations:
1) you soft feinted into it.
2) you tricked your opponent into a dodge which gives you the GB.

Both instances requires the person attempting the GB to risk something or be open to attack. Getting a GB off of a parry means the person isn't risking themselves since they can feint a missed attempt. Which is another reason why your suggestion doesn't work.

CheekyKemosabe
08-25-2017, 10:36 AM
These sound an awful lot like the patch notes that were released concerning the defensive meta. They're releasing similar changes to help balance out the defensive meta without give all the power in the hands of spammers. you should check them out.

vgrimr_J
08-25-2017, 10:47 AM
just get rid of gb after heavy parry and give gb to light parry.

Knight_Raime
08-25-2017, 10:50 AM
just get rid of gb after heavy parry and give gb to light parry.

Won't change the game at the top level. So it's not a good solution.

Specialkha
08-25-2017, 10:51 AM
I just hope they will nerf LB counterstrike as well. No character should have free dmg after a parry. But in a way, assassin's deflect should be look at as well.

Netcode_err_404
08-25-2017, 11:01 AM
I just hope they will nerf LB counterstrike as well. No character should have free dmg after a parry. But in a way, assassin's deflect should be look at as well.
Lb doesn't have any CS

Netcode_err_404
08-25-2017, 11:03 AM
just get rid of gb after heavy parry and give gb to light parry.
Good idea so chars like lb, shugo, highlander would be unplayable.

Draghmar
08-25-2017, 11:18 AM
OP: I think I've seen your suggestions before...wrote by you...few times...

Specialkha
08-25-2017, 11:21 AM
Lb doesn't have any CS

Well, i call CS his free dmg after a parry.

matt89connor
08-25-2017, 11:21 AM
As I have pointed out to you before giving a GB to anyone off of any parry is inherently a problem because it gives you control of the enemies position. You could wall splat them for extra damage which entirely nullifies your point about them not being able to land a heavy after GBing them. Or you could just ledge them.

In the best possible outcome GB's should only be landing in a 1v1 in one of two situations:
1) you soft feinted into it.
2) you tricked your opponent into a dodge which gives you the GB.

Both instances requires the person attempting the GB to risk something or be open to attack. Getting a GB off of a parry means the person isn't risking themselves since they can feint a missed attempt. Which is another reason why your suggestion doesn't work.

I understand your point of view very well: I was of the same idea about you but:
- in making a parry nerf as high as in PTS, it makes them quite useless;
- Many heroes have counterattacks anyway, so they will have higher benefits than other heroes (see centurion);
- Ensuring the GB only to those who do not have counterattacks makes them different in the style and at the same level of the other heroes;
- The tactical use of maps is an important part of the game, if they did not want it, they would not put us: craters, gayser, fire, walls, etc ..don't you think? ;)

matt89connor
08-25-2017, 11:25 AM
These sound an awful lot like the patch notes that were released concerning the defensive meta. They're releasing similar changes to help balance out the defensive meta without give all the power in the hands of spammers. you should check them out.

If you talk about the PTS I've played but it does not guarantee anything after the Parry except the light attacks or the special moveset of some heroes like WL LB etc..
Have they put a patch notes that will shortly come?

matt89connor
08-25-2017, 11:30 AM
OP: I think I've seen your suggestions before...wrote by you...few times...

was similar to others, i try to help as i can, iIf only I had the opportunity to speak openly with a developer or someone who is involved in the fight system I'm sure I could help them a lot, because iI like the idea of helping them on this game almost play at this game XD

matt89connor
08-25-2017, 11:32 AM
btw i thank you because you remember me, maybe you the only 1 who listen me, simply read my idea sometimes

Netcode_err_404
08-25-2017, 12:41 PM
Well, i call CS his free dmg after a parry.

All classes have dmg after parry, and LB even if classified as counter attacker is not even in top 5.

Specialkha
08-25-2017, 01:10 PM
All classes have dmg after parry, and LB even if classified as counter attacker is not even in top 5.

And it is wrong to have free dmg after a parry. This + infinite block is the cancer called "Def meta". No one should have free dmg after a parry, or a deflect., because it just emphasize defense instead of attack. So I wonder how they will rework counter attacker if they fix the def meta. If they do not, most ppl will switch on those characters, since they will become the safest way to win (unless exploit/cheat/etc...)

Netcode_err_404
08-25-2017, 01:28 PM
And it is wrong to have free dmg after a parry. This + infinite block is the cancer called "Def meta". No one should have free dmg after a parry, or a deflect., because it just emphasize defense instead of attack. So I wonder how they will rework counter attacker if they fix the def meta. If they do not, most ppl will switch on those characters, since they will become the safest way to win (unless exploit/cheat/etc...)

The game is build around parry and gb's.


They won't fix nothing, because we need a complete new game

S0Mi_xD
08-25-2017, 02:03 PM
The game is build around parry and gb's.


They won't fix nothing, because we need a complete new game

Everytime i ready any of your comments, i only see how much you stuck in your own world and never accept any other opinion or advice, except it goes with your opinion.
I don't say, that it is wrong to have you own opinion, but as much as you want other people to at least tolerate your opinion, you will also need to think about others opinion and advices, compare it etc.

You don't even try to think about it, you deny it instantly (it's not only now, thats the case since i joined in this forum - and saw many of your posts.


The game is NOT build around Parry and GB's - those are basic mechanics, which interact with most of all other mechanics.

The problem we have currently, is that mechanics like parry are OverPowered.
Why is it OP?
Because you only need to parry to get a GB, and with a GB you have the control about your enemy for a short time.
Parry itself should be a pure defensive tool, with the potential to turn the fight dynamic.

In my opion the best way to fix parry would be:

1. Remove every safe dmg from parry, except stamina dmg.

2. Give us the chance to attack after a parry, without the risk of a instant counterattack -> that means, the one who got parried can defend himself, only by dodging (he can't Guard or parry), or roll out of the situation (but this costs stamina) (similar to LBs shovel)

3. Make parry cost a good amount of stamina (around 1/5 or 1/4 stamina and a short stamia regen stop - it needs to be less than the stamina dmg on the enemy (around 1/3 stamina dmg, or maybe stamia dmg depending on which kind of attack it is))

Now let me explain why this would work.

1. and 2.
You can't rely that much on parries to beat your enemy - but parries are still viable to start a counterattack or to bring your enmey OOS.
It would still work well as a defensive tool, and would have a potential to counterattack/mixup.
This would be an advantage for classes with slow attacks.

3.
With the stamina cost, parries will be limited, so you need to watch for your stamina and the situation in general, if it is worth to parry or better block.

This works well with chip dmg, because you are forced to not only rely on parries and sometimes to go for a block (which leads to dmg on blocks)

Also, some changes from the PTR/PTS, like stamina regen stops while dodging in OOS state.
About parry while OOS, i think it should be possible but it would cost you stamina regeneration, that means if you wanna be safer in OOS and parry, the consequence will be, that you will stay longer in OOS.

T_Sesh
08-25-2017, 02:45 PM
The problem that I see right now, is that guardbreak is too easy to counter and too punishing when landed. Its purpose as an actual guardbreak is negated because any half decent turtle will have no problem countering them. How to fix? Change guardbreak so its like a grab in any other fighting game. The timing would be extremely tight, to the point of almost needing to be read in order to counter, however it would only guarantee a light when landed, or allow you to re-position the opponent as usual to wallsplat and get a heavy. Lights and heavies would continue to interrupt the GB attempt. Orochi, Shinobi, Warden, and Peacekeeper will likely need their double lights and bleeds tuned down to not make them overpowered on GB, but otherwise the parry system could stay as it is.

Some changes to feints I would also recommend - make it so that the feint is later in the animation, but the input for feinting stays the same so that you can't feint parry attempts on reaction. Currently, an enemy throws heavy at you and feints it, you throw heavy back for parry and feint it, and you are back to neutral. You were fooled into a parry, but could not be punished because you could feint your parry attempt on reaction. Make the feinting animations later, but the button input timing the same as it is now, and now you have to commit to a parry attempt. That in combination with much higher chip damage on block (from ALL attacks, not just heavies), will pretty much eliminate the defensive meta in my mind. If anyone sees any holes in that, feel free to add.

matt89connor
08-26-2017, 09:13 AM
The problem that I see right now, is that guardbreak is too easy to counter and too punishing when landed. Its purpose as an actual guardbreak is negated because any half decent turtle will have no problem countering them. How to fix? Change guardbreak so its like a grab in any other fighting game. The timing would be extremely tight, to the point of almost needing to be read in order to counter, however it would only guarantee a light when landed, or allow you to re-position the opponent as usual to wallsplat and get a heavy. Lights and heavies would continue to interrupt the GB attempt. Orochi, Shinobi, Warden, and Peacekeeper will likely need their double lights and bleeds tuned down to not make them overpowered on GB, but otherwise the parry system could stay as it is.

Some changes to feints I would also recommend - make it so that the feint is later in the animation, but the input for feinting stays the same so that you can't feint parry attempts on reaction. Currently, an enemy throws heavy at you and feints it, you throw heavy back for parry and feint it, and you are back to neutral. You were fooled into a parry, but could not be punished because you could feint your parry attempt on reaction. Make the feinting animations later, but the button input timing the same as it is now, and now you have to commit to a parry attempt. That in combination with much higher chip damage on block (from ALL attacks, not just heavies), will pretty much eliminate the defensive meta in my mind. If anyone sees any holes in that, feel free to add.

the feint should be nerf like you say, only when they nerf the parry sys.
Regarding the GB , i think should be remain right now hoe it is, because if become more hard to counter, many players will spam only GB for the free heavy