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269GA-Pag
04-01-2004, 10:41 AM
Dear Oleg, I think that IL2FB, now with AEP, even if with some little bugs, is the best sim on the market today and I wish give to you and your team my appreciation for the efforts that you (and others) put on the sim to update and improve it continuously, in attempt to eliminate the bugs that inevitably we can find in a such complex sim.
A suggestion: it's possible in the game not to assign score for stolen kills?
I mean that often, online, I can see one aircraft followed by 3, 4 or even more enemies, each of them trying to put the last bullet on the target to achieve a victory (and often I see some of this guys falling under the fire of his own teammates, because he is on their line-of-sight)! And, much worse, often I've seen people shooting at a burning wreck of an aircraft, falling in pieces to the ground, only for the credit of an easy victory.....
I don't mean that several aircrafts can't attack a single one (in many cases it's necessary, like fighters with small caliber guns against a big bomber), and, sometimes, people can shoot a plane flying leveled even if his pilot is bailed out (in this case they maynot to know that the pilot is no longer in the cockpit, and the aircraft already lost), but shooting an aircraft barely downed by others, falling in pieces, only for scoring points, it's stupid.... in real life not a single pilot would waste even a single bullet
to hit a wreck! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
There is some system that can be added to the game, like to assign the kill to the pilot who gave the most damage to an enemy aircraft (or even the hit that cause the aircraft be downed)? or to assign points to the guy who killed the enemy pilot at the moment of the kill? or at the moment that the enemy pilot
bail out?
I know, it's hard, but these things, if possible, could improve the realism and the immersion of the game, because the "kill's thieves" will have no longer reasons to shoot down other's preys..... maybe in a future
sim?
Thanks guys, for your job!

Cheers

Pag

PS Please excuse me for my bad english, I think it's comprensible, too!

269GA-Pag
04-01-2004, 10:41 AM
Dear Oleg, I think that IL2FB, now with AEP, even if with some little bugs, is the best sim on the market today and I wish give to you and your team my appreciation for the efforts that you (and others) put on the sim to update and improve it continuously, in attempt to eliminate the bugs that inevitably we can find in a such complex sim.
A suggestion: it's possible in the game not to assign score for stolen kills?
I mean that often, online, I can see one aircraft followed by 3, 4 or even more enemies, each of them trying to put the last bullet on the target to achieve a victory (and often I see some of this guys falling under the fire of his own teammates, because he is on their line-of-sight)! And, much worse, often I've seen people shooting at a burning wreck of an aircraft, falling in pieces to the ground, only for the credit of an easy victory.....
I don't mean that several aircrafts can't attack a single one (in many cases it's necessary, like fighters with small caliber guns against a big bomber), and, sometimes, people can shoot a plane flying leveled even if his pilot is bailed out (in this case they maynot to know that the pilot is no longer in the cockpit, and the aircraft already lost), but shooting an aircraft barely downed by others, falling in pieces, only for scoring points, it's stupid.... in real life not a single pilot would waste even a single bullet
to hit a wreck! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
There is some system that can be added to the game, like to assign the kill to the pilot who gave the most damage to an enemy aircraft (or even the hit that cause the aircraft be downed)? or to assign points to the guy who killed the enemy pilot at the moment of the kill? or at the moment that the enemy pilot
bail out?
I know, it's hard, but these things, if possible, could improve the realism and the immersion of the game, because the "kill's thieves" will have no longer reasons to shoot down other's preys..... maybe in a future
sim?
Thanks guys, for your job!

Cheers

Pag

PS Please excuse me for my bad english, I think it's comprensible, too!

LEXX_Luthor
04-01-2004, 11:09 AM
The solution is get rid of onwhine internet scoring. Its silly when you stop and think about it.


__________________
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http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Me~163 Takeoff Bug will be Patched "soon"....use airstart for now.


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

VeXX_Master
04-01-2004, 11:19 AM
The solution is people need to play the game for fun, and not for score....I never complain if my teammate (AI or Player) swoops in and helps me down an airplane, the point is that he is down. If getting credit for kills is more important to that person than actually getting kills, go ahead and waste your ammo on the airplane I just set on fire. I'm heading out and looking for the next victom.

It's not like I get $$$ for my score and it's not like I care if someone hits the "s" key to see how good or bad they think I am, I just don't care.

I'll keep flying and having fun while not having to worry about how high a number is that the computer puts by my name.

[/RANT] http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Have a nice day! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TAGERT.
04-01-2004, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
The solution is get rid of onwhine internet scoring. Its silly when you stop and think about it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

LEXX_Luthor
04-01-2004, 11:30 AM
Actually, just thinking that Team score, or score for each side is what we want and not individual internet score. Stop and think about how that would change onwhine behavior over the course of a mission.



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Me~163 Takeoff Bug will be Patched "soon"....use airstart for now.


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

GAU-8
04-01-2004, 12:37 PM
i dont mind if kill stealing happens to me (much)..

sometimes my aircraft doesnt have the steam to keep up, if my fellow pilot can take him, and thier is an obvious gap between me an said enemy. take him. or if its a general fight. usually if i see smoke start trailing because of teamate got some good hits, i usually wont engage, to me engine smoke kinda says "im taken"..move along.. lol

what i cant stand are the fools who see me engaged... and i am at .05 to .15 on someone, and its obvious im on the attack, yet they spray n pray all over the target.. but because im behind target, im get hosed... thanks "team mate". if theyre THAT close dont engage.. its not worth the risk of TK.

LEXX_Luthor
04-01-2004, 02:47 PM
And negative Team points for a friendly kill. Or friendly kill points are added to the other side.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Me~163 Takeoff Bug will be Patched "soon"....use airstart for now.


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

ARSNL
04-01-2004, 03:00 PM
What you need to do is forget points. They are a relic of online shooters.

Have your friends/wingmen confirm your kills for your own satisfaction. Points ruin teamplay in all games. Period.

http://www.digitalmelee.com/arsenal/Arse242.gif

F19_Orheim
04-01-2004, 03:46 PM
LEXX!! Teamscore instead of individual score is an excellent idea. Not sure if most people will concurr but whhy not make it an option for the host!

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http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

269GA-Pag
04-02-2004, 10:39 AM
OK guys, I agree with you...like you I fly for fun, and not for points. My first interest is the team (i.e. if I have to bail out I try to return in friendly territory to preserve the pilot..if possible, obviously, but most of the time I remain seat on my chair looking at a black screen... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ), but I like if people could play in respectful manner: like I said it's OK when more people fight against a single target with proper tactics, that's realistic, but I'm scared when I found myself surrounded by others 2 or 3 friendly aircraft, flying fast up and down and left to right, each of them trying to passing the others for the final hit... in this situation generally I leave, because often 2 aircraft of the same team collided (and it's no good for the team, right?), and I don't wont to be one of those aircraft... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
After that, if eliminate the points could reduce that way of flying it's OK...no more points, and no reasons to ram teammates trying to be the BEST! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
cheers

Pag

PS anyway I like shoot down enemy aircraft (the few times that happened... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif )... if not, I could fly a B737 from Rome to London.., but it's not so fun! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Scragbat
04-02-2004, 12:04 PM
It happens and it's a pain.

You know that you cannot shout 'kill stealer' because that will just start an online flame war, so you just bite your tongue.

I play for fun and I also play for points. I would rather have a kill tally than a scoring system but that's just the way it is.

The best thing you can do if someone shoots up an NME whose wing you just ripped off is to remind yourself that they must be exceptionally poor pilots if they cannot bag an NME for themselves but have to rely on the work of others.

You could ask them why they are shooting at someone with only one wing. Perhaps they think that pilot poses a threat spiralling towards the ground with their engine on fire at high speed.

If they are on your server tell them how lame they are then kick 'em.

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Home of Scragbat's Forgotten Battles Virtual Movies (http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com)
Virtual Cinema created with IL-2

Scragbat
04-17-2004, 12:01 PM
On Hyperlobby tonight I was on a server (can't remember what it was called) and there was a team effort going on to bring down a Pe8.
I delivered the final few shots that took the tail off and then wing leaving it spiralling out of control.
Mr 'noob' behind me decides the fight isn't over and continues to shoot at this flaming wreck and takes out my engine in the process, filling my canopy with bullet holes.
I know I said you should bite your tongue, BUT REALLY!

Makes the blood boil http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Autokick for 2+ friendly kills would be an incentive enough to stop friendly shots across your line of fire.

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Scragbat's Forgotten Battles Virtual Movies (http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com)

XyZspineZyX
04-17-2004, 12:23 PM
Such is Human nature, 'the thrill of the chase', is something that would happen anyway....Damage score/ kill points or team point.
Friendly fire is a fact of war, unfortunate but it happens.

What would be satisfying for those who get upset by such actions, would be to have a big foot (Monty Python style) come down from the heavens and stomp the offending kill stealer into the ground and maybe a giant hand with wrist (Thing), could wing out from the closest cloud and flick the offending friendly fire killer into orbit at a gazillion miles an hour, with a 'waahooo ooo ooo' sound effect.

Scragbat
04-17-2004, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...have a big foot (Monty Python style) come down from the heavens and stomp the offending kill stealer into the ground...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg, can this be done? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

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Scragbat's Forgotten Battles Virtual Movies (http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com)

VW-IceFire
04-17-2004, 02:54 PM
Whats even funnier than the people who are doing the kill stealing or the shooting of one or more teammates in their endless zeal to try and achieve a kill is when three or four of these guys are all after you....and you've been shot to pieces and manage to ditch your plane along a flat piece of ground...well not one, not two, not three, but ALL four strafe your plane AND crash into the ground while doing it.

Its an absolute riot and it make me worried about peoples self preservation instincts http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The kill stealing I don't like but I can tolerate. The people on your team shooting through you in their impaitence to get another kill is significantly more of a problem.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

WWScout
04-17-2004, 03:38 PM
I like to see my score. Gives me an idea of how many planes I actually shot down. Like the ones you smoked and left alone (although those seem to be the kill stealers favorite targets, even if it's on fire!) I'm of the mind if one or two guys are chasing an enemy there is no need to join in the furball. I like to climb above it and wait for the next enemy to arrive on scene to spoil his day http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SeaFireLIV
04-17-2004, 03:52 PM
Even with team scoring (which is a good idea), it won`t solve the problem. You see the pilots on the net are not AI, but HUMANS. You will always get the twerps who`ll constantly go crazy with no sense of tactic, teamwork or self-preservation and still madly shoot at anything burning even IF they get minus points. Sure, it`ll reduce the problem, but there are no patches for the Human Being! :P

SeaFireLIV...


http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/mistel.jpg

Don`t worry, they`re just arguing in ORR again!

Xnomad
04-17-2004, 04:12 PM
The whole reason that kill stealing has become so unbearable is that the guns are useless in AEP, it takes you so long to down a plane, even with a MK 108! It is just inevitable that some kill stealer will come along.

This is the number 1 reason why I get killed online, I fly far too agressively and try to kill as quickly as possible for that reason I get too close and crash or get killed by another enemy as I'm so fixed on my target trying to get him down quickly.

Yes, so what? I'm a points *****, I'm sure everyone deep down is, those who don't care about points are the ones who come by them easily. I'm just average Joe so I need my points to make my day http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Can I add that it should be easy to code it that a pilot kill goes to the last attacker or a bail out. I hate it when the plane I shot down keeps flying after the pilot bails and 5 friendlies dive on the empty plane like a pack of dogs.

I also hate it when I'm on the receiving end as I like to know who really killed me and not the tadger who shot my plane after I bailed out. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

SeaFireLIV
04-17-2004, 04:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xnomad:
The whole reason that kill stealing has become so unbearable is that the guns are useless in AEP, it takes you so long to down a plane, even with a MK 108! .

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, you have nailed it on the head! What`s happening online is also the same story offline with AI. It is the tougher or more complex DMs... Solution? Strengthen the guns!

SeaFireLIV...


http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/mistel.jpg

Don`t worry, they`re just arguing in ORR again!

Metal_heaD2
04-17-2004, 04:51 PM
i think it should count kills (shoot downs) and maby shared kills.

or like some one said i think.. have a team score

VW-IceFire
04-17-2004, 04:57 PM
Two great suggestions here:

1) Team score based on number of kills
2) Individual kill tally which also awards half or third of a kill.

Obviously WWII pilots kept kill tallys for a number of reasons...but one was obviously incentive to increase your score. But I'd rather see a real tally list than points.

Maybe next game.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Dizz_310th
04-18-2004, 07:38 AM
I really like the idea of team scores for online and shared awards offline. However, I think these are secondary to fixing the AI that go after ac that are obviously doomed. On more occasions than I can count, I've stopped pursuing a bandit that is IN FLAMES and obviously has only moments of life remaining. In RL, this fact would be apparent and opposing pilots would stop pursuit, conserve ammo, and try to regain position for the next bandit. Please....following a flaming ac all the way to the deck, guns blazing, is simply not realistic!

http://www.wellspringmarketing.biz/310th/dizzsig1.gif

Scragbat
04-18-2004, 07:54 AM
We conclude that AI behaviour is not intelligent to chase down a doomed aircraft so this needs fixing.

We can only conclude that humans that chase down doomed aircraft are also lacking in the intelligence department and sadly they can't be fixed.

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[This message was edited by Scragbat on Sun April 18 2004 at 07:39 AM.]

LW_lcarp
04-18-2004, 08:28 AM
Why not have it that the only score that is shown is yours you cant see any other score so then the kill stealers have nothing to brag about. No look at me I have such a high score everyone loves me.

"If winning isnt everything why do they keep score"
Vince Lombardi

MAstaKFC
04-18-2004, 08:32 AM
I don't play online, but I'd like to state I love chasing down flaming doomed aircraft and pouring lead into them, then testing whether I can pull up on time or join the other plane in hell. Somehow, I find it stress relieving http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Diablo310th
04-18-2004, 08:57 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Actually, just thinking that Team score, or score for each side is what we want and not individual internet score. Stop and think about how that would change onwhine behavior over the course of a mission.


great idea Lexx...I like that. It should be about team play anyway.


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/legalsig.jpg

whitetornado_1
04-18-2004, 09:26 AM
This thread reminds me of my 2 sons fighting
over the score in Super Mario cart on thier game cube.Instead of picking up stars and mushrooms we pick up tails and wings http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
What I love is when 4 planes are chasing the same plane and they are all too childish to give top cover to one another.You just dive in on them and choose your prey.You can remove the command ''wingman'' in DF and COOP noone knows what it means. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VMF513_Sandman
04-18-2004, 09:42 AM
this is turnin into another cfs2...those that cant fly and earn their own poach. maybe there should be different sections: # of pk..if u get a pk, whether or not the entire plane is credited to u, u get xxx points for that. and seeing how pk's can be rather rare, that should be worth even more points.
put in: # of terminal cripples: this section would cover when the plane in question turns into a glider...1 that has no control capability at all. points worth: lets say, 50. would be a nice touch to base that on what type of plane ur in...say, p-38 vs la-7 and u wacked em with the 50 cal's.(like that'll ever happen).

strip shooters shouldnt get many points either...doesnt take rocket science to shoot the dirt. taking out the aaa with either ordanace or guns on the other hand, that should mean something since; the 88mm's can be very hard to spot, and the other guns are practically accurate enought to get pk's almost too easy. dropping a bomb on the runways on a plane should be worth even more than an air-to-air kill....u only get 1 pass, and u need to make it good. specially after goin thru a wall of flack to drop the eggs.
it should be that those who total a plane should get credit...all others just waste ammo.
btw, those who commit fratricide should take a very heavy hit...-600 points per violation. maybe that will force them to properly id the target and stay off someone else's target. if u so much as put 1 round in a friendly plane, -100 points..if a friendly goes down because of it, -600 per plane.

BSS_CUDA
04-19-2004, 08:01 AM
Friendly fire is a fact of war, it happens!!
what I hate more than anything is seeing 6 ppl following 1 target and all shooting at him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif FLY COVER YOU JACKA$$ all your gonna do is shoot each other down, or at the very least fill him with holes costing you points ( if thats what you fly for ) the point of flying is not necessarily to get the kill, but to get you any your wingman back to base safely ( if you fly as a wingman and not a lone wolf )when I fly by my self I'm always looking to wing up with someone, just last week I hooked up with 3 =NNI= guys one from Ireland, one from Italy and one from the Netherlands, i'm from the U.S.
the whole time we were cleaning up and on comms I'm thinking HOW COOL IS THIS I'm flying with ppl from around the world and were havin a blast http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif hell half the time we were pullin off a target if one of us spotted it and engaged it first and had to break off for some reason just to let the original pilot finish the kill. I feel if its an true team kill the game should auto kick or at least have a vote kick with a temporary ban on the IP http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Tactical Officer

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CUDA_.jpg

That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

SodBuster43
04-19-2004, 09:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
...... Sure, it`ll reduce the problem, but there are no patches for the Human Being! :P

SeaFireLIV...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the "nicotine patch" might work http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VF-10_Snacky
04-19-2004, 04:11 PM
I agree 100%

It should all be team scoring. If you get a kill then it goes toward the total team score not your own personal total.

What I would like to see is front lines changing online when dogfighting,etc. Instead of scoring points let the front lines move or change according to how well or how poorly your team is doing. Have like a domination type scenerio like in BF1942,etc. If you shoot down all the enemy aircraft around an airfield and you maintain air superiority over that base then you should gain that as a home base after a couple of minutes. then the enemy is forced to takeoff from another base and regain it back or go after one of yours if they want to gain an advantage.
This might have a drawback when dealing with base rapers, but with multiple bases it is possible I think.
None the less I dont like the scoring the way it is. It needs to encourage teamwork not breed indiviualists.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
The solution is get rid of onwhine internet scoring. Its silly when you stop and think about it.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish _"Gladiator"_ listed as _J8A_ _...in Aces Expansion Pack_

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Me~163 _Takeoff Bug_ will be Patched "soon"....use airstart for now.


_"You will still have FB , you will lose _nothing"__ ~WUAF_Badsight
_"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..."_ ~Bearcat99
_"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age"_ ~ElAurens
:
_"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore_!_"_ ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Son of a B**ch! That's gonna leave a mark."

VMF513_Sandman
04-19-2004, 04:46 PM
a system that spreads the points out evenly to entire team would work wonders...maybe that will encourage wingmanship instead of these 'holier than thou' attitudes. and those that has the guts to 'waterski' to plug a ship with torpedoes should have some xtra credit...hmm, how about, a silver star or distinguished flying cross?

BSS_CUDA
04-19-2004, 07:34 PM
Seawolf,EXCELENTIdea I really like the team scoring idea and the movable front lines, the reason I stopped playing BF was the UBER planes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif kinda like my timex its takes a licking and keeps on ticking but the game Idea rocks IMHO

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Tactical Officer

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CUDA_.jpg

That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

Metal_heaD2
04-20-2004, 04:49 AM
Seawolf i like your idea to.

Tooz_69GIAP
04-20-2004, 05:41 AM
Team scores sound interesting, certainly. But to address the "kill stealing by firing through your team mate issue", perhaps we can look to a shooter for the solution?

In America's Army team killing is a big no no. For every team kill, or even for every stray bullet of nade fragment that hits a team member, you receive negative points. Once you get to a certain amount of negative points (generally somewhere around -400 points I believe), you are kicked from the server automatically with a 2 or 5 minute ban, I think.

Perhaps having something like this will help to control those itchy trigger fingers folks have. What you guys reckon?

Tooz

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg
Za Rodinu!

VeXX_Master
04-20-2004, 09:32 AM
Another vote here for team scoring or and kicking for excessive tk's. I admit that neither of these will completely solve the problem, but it definately should reduce it.

gates123
04-20-2004, 10:10 AM
I think a simple solution would be just to have the admins ban the bastards that kill steal. Its always the same people that do it, theres always a few bad apples in the bunch. I know that sometimes the admins are flying/fighting ect. but it never fails to see the same people doing it over and over. Once a kill stealer always a kill stealer. I know it might be a headache for some admins but were not talking about alot of people here, I think once a trend is set and the kill stealers get the idea that it wont be tolerated then we will see less of it. It doesnt matter if Oleg changes the online scoring system it will still occur. Personally if I worked 10 minutes to bring down a bf-110 and some @$$*%!#* takes a pot shot at it 100m from hitting a dirt in flames it will still tick me off since he has no respect for what I just had to go through to EARN that kill regardless of points. If they can't earn their own kills and resort to ruining other peoples fun then they should be denied to participate in the online experience.

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/justin/1087/WWII/Images/Thumbs/TBf109AK.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

HayateKid
04-20-2004, 11:15 AM
I think those who whine about kill stealing need an attitude adjustment more than the "kill stealers" themselves.

I agree we should use team scores instead of individual scores. That's probably the only way the whining would stop. I mean if you're so obsessed about scores that you actually complain that your teammates are assisting you, you have a problem.

"First learn stand, then learn fly. Nature rule, Daniel San, not mine." - Mr. Miyagi

HayateKid
04-20-2004, 11:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Actually, just thinking that Team score, or score for each side is what we want and not individual internet score. Stop and think about how that would change onwhine behavior over the course of a mission.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know what would change? There would be no more whiners about kill stealing. People would still shoot at smoking aircraft, because that's just the nature of the game - you shoot at enemy planes. But the one who made the plane smoke in the first place would no longer care. After all it's not like somebody is stealing his precious points.

If team score changes the game like I think it would, what does that tell us? It tells us the whiner is the one obsessed with the score, rather than the "kill-stealer".

Here's my suggestion for kill-stealing whiners. Let the noobs beeline for your smoker. Pull up and fly cover for them. If you are really the better pilot you'd do that.

"First learn stand, then learn fly. Nature rule, Daniel San, not mine." - Mr. Miyagi

gates123
04-20-2004, 12:03 PM
Its not about points its about respecting ones hard earned work and being a teamplayer. Some people dont have 6 hrs to play and within that hr of gameplay it would be more advantangious(sp) to just cover the guy who got the plane flaming in the first place. So many times I've seen people going WAY (600kph dives) out of the way to shoot a flaming plane only to have the original pilot that worked for the kill to get bounced by a freshy entering the fight. If you want to stress better teamwork online then cover peoples six instead of losing 2500k in altitude just to shoot up a plane already headed for the ground.

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/justin/1087/WWII/Images/Thumbs/TBf109AK.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

SpookyRuben
04-20-2004, 12:52 PM
Friendly pilots going after "dead" planes is silly, I always laugh when it happens. Personally I try to keep my distance from another persons target, but if opportunity knocks I'll take a shot.

As far as scoring is concerned, I think it could use an overhaul. Right now I keep track of my own kills (both air and ground), landings, assists, and when I am shot down (crashlanding, bail or deaths). I would much rather see this type of scoring for online play.

The incentive for kill stealing (or perhaps I should say "points" stealing) would be greatly curbed if each player who contributed to shooting down an enemy plane only receiving an "assist" point.

As the points system stands now I think it's better to ignore it and just focus on you're own flying. Maybe if we are lucky we will see a scoring system that better reflects the actual combat in BoB.

Cheers,

Spook

Ki_Rin
04-20-2004, 01:04 PM
Seems to me there wasnt too much of that kill stealing action in Jane's ww2 fighters....but then, it was a team-based kill/loss ratio, not the inane FB scoring
it had team kills/losses, enemy team kill/losses, and one's own individual kill/losses
what helped was once your ac was basically inoerable/unflyable, you were declared dead, and no one could shoot your debris for credit...also, once u bailed out, the responsible pilot got his credit
Sure, kill stealing happened there, but only a fraction of FB, and even when it did happen, (assuming it wasnt constant!) most ppl wouldnt care, as it only meant 1 kill off your personal kill/loss but still added a kill to teamscore
This was a simple, easy solution that seems to have eluded developers of il2/FB...perhaps some kind of sys like this could be implemented?.....

Ki_Rin
04-20-2004, 01:05 PM
Seems to me there wasnt too much of that kill stealing action in Jane's ww2 fighters....but then, it was a team-based kill/loss ratio, not the inane FB scoring
it had team kills/losses, enemy team kill/losses, and one's own individual kill/losses
what helped was once your ac was basically inoerable/unflyable, you were declared dead, and no one could shoot your debris for credit...also, once u bailed out, the responsible pilot got his credit
Sure, kill stealing happened there, but only a fraction of FB, and even when it did happen, (assuming it wasnt constant!) most ppl wouldnt care, as it only meant 1 kill off your personal kill/loss but still added a kill to teamscore
This was a simple, easy solution that seems to have eluded developers of il2/FB...perhaps some kind of sys like this could be implemented?.....

HUTCH_HUTCH
04-20-2004, 09:01 PM
sounds like counter strike .
I know peps that only want points and dont care about the mission or game then run around like they are the best cause they have a higher score ....sad to se that they belive they are better than everyone else cause of a number .......its just a good game .
when i fly online I stay in the plane or bailout and watch the others or go to outside view to see the great efects that this game has to offer..I was flying and lost the engine so i tried to land ..i lost the gear and I did some sliding and did make it down ..but as soon as i was down some points freek shoot me and blew me up ..

CHIN UP
=
Next time you in Eugene,Oregon stop by
http://www.fragnetgaming.com

BSS_CUDA
04-21-2004, 08:10 AM
heh, I was on Warclouds 44 yesterday havin a good time, chasin down a 109 in my 51, I was about .3 or less on his six chippin at his wings tips when some guy in another 51 drops down right infront of me, http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif so close I could see the rivets on his plane. I almost hit him I was like WTF Jacka$$ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif get out of my way. then to my amazement http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif ANOTHER 51 drops down infront of him almost on top of him well as you can guess the first guy shoots the second guy then collides with him exploding so close infront of me that they took one of my wings off as I went throught the debrie. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif I watched in amazement as 3 51's go down in less than 3 seconds and the guy in the 109 flies off. I should have gone with the intentional TK just for them being jacks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/351.gif and having NO SA on the fight going on around them, either that or it was an intentional attempt at a kill steal

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Tactical Officer

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CUDA_.jpg

That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

AnaK774
04-22-2004, 07:04 AM
That is something i'd call good teamwork http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SpookyRuben
04-22-2004, 11:46 AM
Just checking back on this thread and decided to share something that happened earlier today while I was flying on the WarClouds TOH server.

I saw a Zero trying to tail a friendly so being a good soldier I swooped down on him in my Brewster. Got a solid hit on him and looked like he was leaking fuel and maybe a radiator hit. He started to run for home and I gave chase. Problem was I had bled to much E while saving my teammate and now had to play catch-up. No prob, I was gaining slowly and was probably forcing him to burn his engine. Easy kill right.

Then I heard a plane on my 4 o'clock. A friendly P40 cruised by, moving in on the damaged Zero, but not getting in front of me. I was still trailing by several hundred meters, so kept on going. If the P40 can't take him down, maybe he will overshoot I thought. I have to be honest and say that a little piece of me was a bit miffed about the situation, but them's the breaks sometimes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

In the end, the P40 closed the gap and fired on the Zero causing the fuel tank to brew up. I knew the chase was over and pulled off. The Zero goes down and the kill is awarded to the other pilot. No big deal, time to hunt for a new victim. Then a pleasant surprise. The pilot who made the kill sends out on general chat that credit for the kill should go to me. I had never seen that before. What a fine gentlemen. At that point I couldn't do anything but reply something like...

"An assist at best bud, you closed the gap and made the kill, good shooting."

I have to say that I would probably do the same in his case, if the roles were reversed. As it happens, no more than two minutes later I took down another Zero and had a good run messing up another.

Who ever that pilot was, I tip my hat to you sir. You didn't have to give credit, but it is appriciated.

Good Hunting,

Spook