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wethebishop
08-14-2017, 01:53 PM
Are all of the PTR defensive meta changes going through to the next patch that's tomorrow?

In the patch notes I only saw the chip damage

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 02:13 PM
If it is not in the patchnotes it is not in the game.

Netcode_err_404
08-14-2017, 02:17 PM
Thanks god they didn't make it.

Some of the changes were absolutely trash. And a serious huge character balance needs to be done before any changes, no reasons why orochis should take a free double top heavy out of any parry, and the others just a single 17 damage light.


Same with warlords or cet. Even if I think warlords are supposed to be the best class in the game for some mysterious reasons, i ignore at the moment.

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 02:30 PM
Thanks god they didn't make it.

Some of the changes were absolutely trash. And a serious huge character balance needs to be done before any changes, no reasons why orochis should take a free double top heavy out of any parry, and the others just a single 17 damage light.


Same with warlords or cet. Even if I think warlords are supposed to be the best class in the game for some mysterious reasons, i ignore at the moment.

Lol, its funny how every competent For Honor player disagrees your opinion.

Characters should be balanced after Def meta changes, to adapt them to the balanced basics.
Orochi is a Counter attacker, its just logical that he can get more dmg out of counterattacks ....

Cent is just unbalanced in many aspects and warlord is fine.

Netcode_err_404
08-14-2017, 03:19 PM
Lol, its funny how every competent For Honor player disagrees your opinion.

Characters should be balanced after Def meta changes, to adapt them to the balanced basics.
Orochi is a Counter attacker, its just logical that he can get more dmg out of counterattacks ....

Cent is just unbalanced in many aspects and warlord is fine.


No, its not logical. Orochi ignore the parry nerf, ignore a fixed game design choice.


Competent players disagree ?


IDGAFF

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 03:48 PM
No, its not logical. Orochi ignore the parry nerf, ignore a fixed game design choice.


Competent players disagree ?


IDGAFF

Orochi ignores nothing, he can't GB out of parry. This was mainly the parry nerf, and with this parry nerf many heroes also lost a safe heavy after parry.
Berserker gets 30 dmg out of a parry with his zone.
And other heroes are getting zones aswell.

And yes it is logical, orochi doesn't have any opener, therfor his parry should stay strong.



"IDGAFF" - yeah, that sounds like you.
You have no valid argument, and ignore everything that other player say, if it doesn't match your own opinion.

Netcode_err_404
08-14-2017, 03:58 PM
Orochi ignores nothing, he can't GB out of parry. This was mainly the parry nerf, and with this parry nerf many heroes also lost a safe heavy after parry.
Berserker gets 30 dmg out of a parry with his zone.
And other heroes are getting zones aswell.

And yes it is logical, orochi doesn't have any opener, therfor his parry should stay strong.



"IDGAFF" - yeah, that sounds like you.
You have no valid argument, and ignore everything that other player say, if it doesn't match your own opinion.

Characters that have better parry punish than others. This should ring a bell, for example, the same ****ty situation we have now, which is some classes cannot do ****, and others can projectile you on the other side of the map, into some ledge or spike.

Some classes have a 30 dmg heavy and others have a full 60+ damage combo with 100% stamina drain.with 7 confirmed seconds of hard stun.


And the fact that these changes are beeing postponed clearly makes my point valid.Thanks god, or we would have the same umbalanced garbage we had on ptr.


I would really like to see someone who likes all the changes, bring him here, and do not tell me ppl like sypher or others on ubi pay list.

Lyskir
08-14-2017, 04:02 PM
Characters that have better parry punish than others. This should ring a bell, for example, the same ****ty situation we have now, which is some classes cannot do ****, and others can projectile you on the other side of the map, into some ledge or spike.

Some classes have a 30 dmg heavy and others have a full 60+ damage combo with 100% stamina drain.with 7 confirmed seconds of hard stun.


And the fact that these changes are beeing postponed clearly makes my point valid.Thanks god, or we would have the same umbalanced garbage we had on ptr.


I would really like to see someone who likes all the changes, bring him here, and do not tell me ppl like sypher or others on ubi pay list.

It is rare but I have to agree with him here



some heroes would be gods with those deff meta changes

Netcode_err_404
08-14-2017, 04:06 PM
It is rare but I have to agree with him here



some heroes would be gods with those deff meta changes



Raider, WL, cent, are the gods.

Orochi will be even more cancer than already is. He can spam top lights and zones without worrying about a huhe heavy punish, and he can double top light you out of any parry, making him basically like theres no parry nerf.


And the list goes on.

Conq cannot be punished in any way. etc.


They cannot put these changes without a serious class update or would be even worse than already is.


Not to menbtion 4v4 with these changes are unplayable.

Ontari
08-14-2017, 04:18 PM
Dear Error guy

You are very upset, I think that you learned just one thing in this game, that is parry, and now you are scared that you won't be able to do anything.
Don't worry!!!! Apart from free win buton, that parry is, the rest of the game mechanics remain the same - you can attack, block, combo, etc.

You say orochi is a cancer? You say he is overpowered? Pity you... maybe try and play him first to see, that people who wreck you with orochi actually put a lot of work into it? He is currently one of the hardest characters to play pal.

And as was said - assassins are counter attackers. They have reflex guard, very little HP (especially shinobi). They SHOULD benefit more out of counterstrike (which parry is) than tanks and other classes.

Seriously, I can imagine your salty pain when you will be unable to harm anyone with your precious parry. But please... don't bullshizzit me here (especially with that "orochi guaranteed 2 heavies bullshizzit)

Regards and keep practicing ;)

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 04:20 PM
It is rare but I have to agree with him here



some heroes would be gods with those deff meta changes

My point is, every hero would have still a decent parry punish.
Taking orochi as an example was a wrong decision.

Those heroes who would be "gods" with those def meta changes, are the same without the changes.
And thats not the fault of the core mechanics, its the fault of bad hero design.

The only hero who would be untouched by those meta changes is Centurion, because he has a 600ms heavy that deals 25dmg, this is way to much dmg for a heavy as fast as light attacks. And he can chain/combo it into much more.

Also Shinobi gets a ranged GB from a parry.

Those both are the only "unfair" examples.

About orochi, i think in general, his double light needs a small dmg nerf.
The second one deals 15dmg i would say 10 is enough for a safe second light.
But desicion like this, character adjustments are coming after a Fix for the core mechanics.
First we need the meta change and then we can adapt those heros who are "to strong" with those changes.

Lyskir
08-14-2017, 04:30 PM
My point is, every hero would have still a decent parry punish.
Taking orochi as an example was a wrong decision.

Those heroes who would be "gods" with those def meta changes, are the same without the changes.
And thats not the fault of the core mechanics, its the fault of bad hero design.

The only hero who would be untouched by those meta changes is Centurion, because he has a 600ms heavy that deals 25dmg, this is way to much dmg for a heavy as fast as light attacks. And he can chain/combo it into much more.

Also Shinobi gets a ranged GB from a parry.

Those both are the only "unfair" examples.

About orochi, i think in general, his double light needs a small dmg nerf.
The second one deals 15dmg i would say 10 is enough for a safe second light.
But desicion like this, character adjustments are coming after a Fix for the core mechanics.
First we need the meta change and then we can adapt those heros who are "to strong" with those changes.

sounds good

Netcode_err_404
08-14-2017, 04:34 PM
Dear Error guy

You are very upset, I think that you learned just one thing in this game, that is parry, and now you are scared that you won't be able to do anything.
Don't worry!!!! Apart from free win buton, that parry is, the rest of the game mechanics remain the same - you can attack, block, combo, etc.

You say orochi is a cancer? You say he is overpowered? Pity you... maybe try and play him first to see, that people who wreck you with orochi actually put a lot of work into it? He is currently one of the hardest characters to play pal.

And as was said - assassins are counter attackers. They have reflex guard, very little HP (especially shinobi). They SHOULD benefit more out of counterstrike (which parry is) than tanks and other classes.

Seriously, I can imagine your salty pain when you will be unable to harm anyone with your precious parry. But please... don't bullshizzit me here (especially with that "orochi guaranteed 2 heavies bullshizzit)

Regards and keep practicing ;)



PArry never was a free i win button kid.

Infact in tourneys ppl do not parry, but unlock and 50/50 with charges, and spam unblockables.


Assassins don't have very little hp, infact most of them have 20 HP less than their vianguard counterpart. Orochi has 10 gp less that the kensei, and is twice better in all apsects of the game.



And if it was "risky" spamming top lights with orochi, PTR changes will fix that, making him a spam machine, more than now.



CHip damage, no GB ater parry is all welcome, but some attacks need to be punished hard. Like orochoi top light and zone, if i parry a top light i will deal 18 ldamage light riposte, if i fail i got a 30+ damage,


Seems a lot far from beeing legit here bud. You must be on of these kids who spam the same attack and when get parried cry on the forum. Delicious.

Netcode_err_404
08-14-2017, 04:37 PM
My point is, every hero would have still a decent parry punish.
Taking orochi as an example was a wrong decision.

Those heroes who would be "gods" with those def meta changes, are the same without the changes.
And thats not the fault of the core mechanics, its the fault of bad hero design.

The only hero who would be untouched by those meta changes is Centurion, because he has a 600ms heavy that deals 25dmg, this is way to much dmg for a heavy as fast as light attacks. And he can chain/combo it into much more.

Also Shinobi gets a ranged GB from a parry.

Those both are the only "unfair" examples.

About orochi, i think in general, his double light needs a small dmg nerf.
The second one deals 15dmg i would say 10 is enough for a safe second light.
But desicion like this, character adjustments are coming after a Fix for the core mechanics.
First we need the meta change and then we can adapt those heros who are "to strong" with those changes.


Wrong, actually only WL is a god tier. The other heroes are still top choice, but manageable. After tis change you won't compete with a raider, a cent or a WL, just because your parry punish is a light, and they can chain their in a 100%stamina drain + damage.

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 04:41 PM
Raider, WL, cent, are the gods.

Orochi will be even more cancer than already is. He can spam top lights and zones without worrying about a huhe heavy punish, and he can double top light you out of any parry, making him basically like theres no parry nerf.


And the list goes on.

Conq cannot be punished in any way. etc.


They cannot put these changes without a serious class update or would be even worse than already is.


Not to menbtion 4v4 with these changes are unplayable.

Urgh... dunno how to explain it to you, to get the point.

I try it this way.

Current situation, is the worst situation (full def meta)
If all those changes from PTR would have applied, some things would stay, and other things would be better.

And after those changes applied all player could see how it works, where the weakpoints are and where the next improvements need to hit the game. You get it?

Not adding them changes NOTHING - adding them would change something and we could work from this new spot ....

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 04:44 PM
Wrong, actually only WL is a god tier. The other heroes are still top choice, but manageable. After tis change you won't compete with a raider, a cent or a WL, just because your parry punish is a light, and they can chain their in a 100%stamina drain + damage.

Yeah forgot warlord, no my parry would be 30 dmg ;D also i don't rely only on parry, i actually attack.

But in one point i can agree - those changes are not optimal.

wethebishop
08-14-2017, 05:04 PM
Oh I see.

I was a bit excited to try the new style, but I guess it's just chip damage. This won't change anything. They're still testing?

AnEnticingSquid
08-14-2017, 05:24 PM
Not trying to call anyone out here, but I have my doubts that everyone claiming to be top tear and always deal with turtles are legit. I don't see much turtling at all at rep 30. And I watch tons of "top tier" players and they don't even turtle very much. I feel that it is a lot of bandwagoning. But I'll tell you why I personally am glad the parry nerf didn't make it into the game. Because parrying a shinobis light is going hard. And almost necessary to win. And you should get a tough punish from it. All this change would do in high level play is shift the meta from parry to dodge. Still a defensive meta. Defence is always preferred to offence in any fighting game. FH isn't going to change that. The biggest damage will go to the mid tier (aka 90% of the playerbase) where light parrys are rare and light spamming is a legitimate tactic. This will take away most people's only defence against fast characters. Because a raider can't trade with a pk. So pk would win every fight without the heavy punish. You would have to parry her like 12 times to kill her. But what other options do you have? Her lights will disrupt EVERYTHING in your kit. The only fast attack raider has is heavy feint into light. But you cant do it because she can light attack you out of animation before you get a chance. Like i said in a previous post, what will slow characters do without parry? Thats the only way they can win.

Vingrask
08-14-2017, 05:29 PM
ALL PTR changes should go Live. All of them. After that, balance everything is much more easy and much more fun. Besides, make much more sense.

Netcode_err_404
08-14-2017, 05:35 PM
Not trying to call anyone out here, but I have my doubts that everyone claiming to be top tear and always deal with turtles are legit. I don't see much turtling at all at rep 30. And I watch tons of "top tier" players and they don't even turtle very much. I feel that it is a lot of bandwagoning. But I'll tell you why I personally am glad the parry nerf didn't make it into the game. Because parrying a shinobis light is going hard. And almost necessary to win. And you should get a tough punish from it. All this change would do in high level play is shift the meta from parry to dodge. Still a defensive meta. Defence is always preferred to offence in any fighting game. FH isn't going to change that. The biggest damage will go to the mid tier (aka 90% of the playerbase) where light parrys are rare and light spamming is a legitimate tactic. This will take away most people's only defence against fast characters. Because a raider can't trade with a pk. So pk would win every fight without the heavy punish. You would have to parry her like 12 times to kill her. But what other options do you have? Her lights will disrupt EVERYTHING in your kit. The only fast attack raider has is heavy feint into light. But you cant do it because she can light attack you out of animation before you get a chance. Like i said in a previous post, what will slow characters do without parry? Thats the only way they can win.



If they would fix fast classes light spam woudn't exist.

Lyskir
08-14-2017, 05:40 PM
Not trying to call anyone out here, but I have my doubts that everyone claiming to be top tear and always deal with turtles are legit. I don't see much turtling at all at rep 30. And I watch tons of "top tier" players and they don't even turtle very much. I feel that it is a lot of bandwagoning. But I'll tell you why I personally am glad the parry nerf didn't make it into the game. Because parrying a shinobis light is going hard. And almost necessary to win. And you should get a tough punish from it. All this change would do in high level play is shift the meta from parry to dodge. Still a defensive meta. Defence is always preferred to offence in any fighting game. FH isn't going to change that. The biggest damage will go to the mid tier (aka 90% of the playerbase) where light parrys are rare and light spamming is a legitimate tactic. This will take away most people's only defence against fast characters. Because a raider can't trade with a pk. So pk would win every fight without the heavy punish. You would have to parry her like 12 times to kill her. But what other options do you have? Her lights will disrupt EVERYTHING in your kit. The only fast attack raider has is heavy feint into light. But you cant do it because she can light attack you out of animation before you get a chance. Like i said in a previous post, what will slow characters do without parry? Thats the only way they can win.

amen

FredEx919
08-14-2017, 05:59 PM
Hello all,

Just to clarify, the patch notes are the full changes coming at the start of the season (tomorrow). When we have new features or balance changes on the test environment, it's specifically to test and gather feedback. Based on that, we can make adjustments and begin working the changes into the live game. That doesn't guarantee they'll be in the following title update though. We'll keep you posted on the progress with defensive meta changes and what we gathered from the test.

psyminion
08-14-2017, 06:41 PM
amen

I'm just a scrub at rep 52 and I second this amen.