PDA

View Full Version : Unlock tech



Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 08:45 PM
Why Ubi allow Unlock tech in the tournement wtf .... that tell us alot about why those **** still in the game.

Lyskir
08-12-2017, 08:53 PM
yeah, i do not enjoy this tournament....

almost no parrys only unlock "tech" and s***

psyminion
08-12-2017, 08:56 PM
I was gonna start a thread about this myself.

what a f*cking LAME way to play this game.

I watching these *high level* players jerk around and cheese each other is f*cking weak.
I hope the devs are paying attention, and I hope this isn't what they wanted their *best* players to abuse.

the people want to see exciting fights, not this ********.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:00 PM
The dev respond will be , we are not sure if those are really unlock tech we need more data

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:07 PM
The developers are only against/getting rid of unlock tech that makes things unparryable. people using unlock to speed up attacks are fine.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:09 PM
not find at all it pure ********

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:13 PM
not find at all it pure ********

sucks you feel that way. techs are pretty much essential in fighting games.
unlock tech that speeds up attacks is perfectly fine.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:14 PM
that why there game is dying ... sadly, lucky for them the free weekend may prolong the game life a little bit

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:17 PM
that why there game is dying ... sadly, lucky for them the free weekend may prolong the game life a little bit

game's not dying bro.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:17 PM
1k player before the free to play week end not dying -_-...yeah sure

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:21 PM
1k player before the free to play week end not dying -_-...yeah sure

that's pc. and that's still more than enough. pc is always the smaller crowd in multi platform games unless pc was the only platform to start with before console ports come out.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:23 PM
1k player is a dead game i cant talk about consol since we dont have number , but for pc its a dying game

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:25 PM
dont get me wrong i wish it would go back to life but since i left the game right after the horrible season 2 beginning , went back to see if they changed any thing ... so far that game still not something iw ould recommend and unlock tech is part of it .

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:25 PM
1k player is a dead game i cant talk about consol since we dont have number , but for pc its a dying game

I don't really care if people think that means it's dead. it's not. people still find matches frequently. it's just people looking to complain.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:27 PM
I don't really care if people think that means it's dead. it's not. people still find matches frequently. it's just people looking to complain.

True i still find game but before the weekend it took me around 10 to 15 minute to find a game

edit: i dont play duel , i find that mode boring

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:28 PM
dont get me wrong i wish it would go back to life but since i left the game right after the horrible season 2 beginning , went back to see if they changed any thing ... so far that game still not something iw ould recommend and unlock tech is part of it .

the unlock tech that was causing problems was the unparryable tech. which has been continually taken out.

Oupyz
08-12-2017, 09:32 PM
is Nobushi zone still unparryable when unlocked ?

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:32 PM
the unlock tech that was causing problems was the unparryable tech. which has been continually taken out.

That good. now they need to fix the other part of the unlock tech may be not for you but hey lets agree that we disagree

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:33 PM
is Nobushi zone still unparryable when unlocked ?

yes. But all nobushi unparryable tech is patched in the season 3 patch that drops on the 15th.
No idea if the tourney is played on this new patch or not.

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:34 PM
That good. now they need to fix the other part of the unlock tech may be not for you but hey lets agree that we disagree

I don't think it will be taken out. if it will it won't be anytime soon.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:34 PM
yes. But all nobushi unparryable tech is patched in the season 3 patch that drops on the 15th.
No idea if the tourney is played on this new patch or not.

its not the new patch they said it at the beginning , in the end its just bad press for them

Arekonator
08-12-2017, 09:35 PM
The tourney perfectly higlights almost everything thats wrong with the game.

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:36 PM
its not the new patch they said it at the beginning , in the end its just bad press for them

Ah I see. well. if we see a nobushi I might agree. but she usually doesn't show up in tourney.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:36 PM
The tourney perfectly higlights almost everything thats wrong with the game.

its really bad press for them right now , it disgusting to watch

Arekonator
08-12-2017, 09:38 PM
Ah I see. well. if we see a nobushi I might agree. but she usually doesn't show up in tourney.

I think she is (or at least used to be) was in almost every 2v2 tourney. She doesnt perform that well in 1v1 but she is much more powerfull in 2v2 and 4v4 modes.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:39 PM
Ah I see. well. if we see a nobushi I might agree. but she usually doesn't show up in tourney.

well we did see a disgusting Shugo doing only unlock tech .... and even the guy that host the show talk openly about the tech witch is disguting at the end

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:40 PM
well we did see a disgusting Shugo doing only unlock tech .... and even the guy that host the show talk openly about the tech witch is disguting at the end

are you sure you're not thinking about shugs roll tech?

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:41 PM
are you sure you're not thinking about shugs roll tech?

roll tech unlock tech for att and for going away when he is out of stamina ect... like arekonator said so far they only show whats wrong with the game

Arekonator
08-12-2017, 09:43 PM
I saw at least three on that match.
1. Unlocked heavies to make them unparryable.
2. Lock/unlock shuffle to disengage quickly,
3. Roll tech.
4. Bonus: Unlocked lights on valk, allowing followup to sweep even on block.

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:45 PM
I saw at least three on that match.
1. Unlocked heavies to make them unparryable.
2. Lock/unlock shuffle to disengage quickly,
3. Roll tech.
4. Bonus: Unlocked lights on valk, allowing followup to sweep even on block.

1) which hero did that?
2) Don't personally have an issue with that.
3) isnt roll tech exclusive to shug?
4) Didn't see this myself. but I think that should be fixed.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 09:47 PM
1) which hero did that?
2) Don't personally have an issue with that.
3) isnt roll tech exclusive to shug?
4) Didn't see this myself. but I think that should be fixed.

well you see that what is all wrong with unlock for me and it all bad press like i said you like unlock tech is fine , i dislike them

psyminion
08-12-2017, 09:49 PM
when I think 'skilled' at for honor, I don't envision shugoki swinging at the voices in his head while raider stampede-charges the hallucinations brought on by his misdirected rage....

I get that winning is everything but ffs.

it's weak.

Arekonator
08-12-2017, 09:51 PM
1) which hero did that?
2) Don't personally have an issue with that.
3) isnt roll tech exclusive to shug?
4) Didn't see this myself. but I think that should be fixed.
1) same player, both on valkyrie and shugoki.
2) still is unintended mechanics and the fact it allows you to retreat so quickly AND safely esp when you are OOS is pretty stupid and imo should not exist
3) dont know about that.
4) is there during the first valk match, i saw it at least once, didnt paid that much attention, but i think more than one can be found on closer inspection of the VOD.

Knight_Raime
08-12-2017, 09:54 PM
1) same player, both on valkyrie and shugoki.
2) still is unintended mechanics and the fact it allows you to retreat so quickly AND safely esp when you are OOS is pretty stupid and imo should not exist
3) dont know about that.
4) is there during the first valk match, i saw it at least once, didnt paid that much attention, but i think more than one can be found on closer inspection of the VOD.

Oh so the shug? I didn't know unlocking shugs heavies/zones made them unparryable. everyone in chat was screaming it was pointless so.
I mean even parry gets you out of OOS easily. I doubt with the OOS changes this will be the same.
well regardless. the only 2 unlock techs I know i'm fine with are ones that speed up attacks and ones that cancel recoveries.

Arekonator
08-12-2017, 10:18 PM
Pretty much every attack can or at least could be unlocked to make it unparryable (depends how far are they with the "fixes", few unlock unparryables were allegedly "fixed" only for them to re-emerge some time later. I saw even centurion and PK lights unlock techs in last tournament i wached (about month ago, they might not be in the game now).
Esp with the OOS changes, the lock/unlock shuffle will be even more prominent, simply because it can allow you to deny enemy the option to utilize the OOS state, because you can retreat as fast as with dodging, with none of the downsides (no stamina regen pause, no GB vulnerability, and you can still block). While it might not exactly be a problem now, i am convinced it should go away at the latest when rest of the def meta changes are introduced.
Also on speeding up attacks, making already 500ms attack even faster is also pretty stupid, the fact it makes them unparryable is just cherry on top.

UbiInsulin
08-12-2017, 11:14 PM
Hey guys, some unlock tech situations will be patched in 1.11 (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-298289-16/for-honor-v111-patch-notes). Here's the developer comment on the problem:



There are a number of situations where unlocking during an attack can cause it to become un-parryable by the opponent. Across the game, we’re currently working to remove this unintended behavior.

Sir_rage_quit
08-12-2017, 11:27 PM
Hey guys, some unlock tech situations will be patched in 1.11 (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-298289-16/for-honor-v111-patch-notes). Here's the developer comment on the problem:

That a good step but can you tell us why you did allow all the tech that happen in the tournement ?

Linnix1
08-12-2017, 11:34 PM
This unlock tech is a mockery to mechanics in fighting games. Atleast when you use a character mechanic in any other game your giving up something to do it. What's the drawback for doing this. Nothing. Tournements are done to show the best a game can be by the best in the game. Tournements in this game show nothing but problems

Alustar.
08-12-2017, 11:41 PM
I just want to point out the hypocrisy here where the community got so pissed at the indicator glitch, but then another glitch comes to light that pretty much makes attacks unparryable or in some cases faster than they should be but no one cares about that.
An aspect that I don't think many are realizin, is it's impact on 4v4 where you actually need to be able to cycle opponents.

Baggin_
08-12-2017, 11:45 PM
That a good step but can you tell us why you did allow all the tech that happen in the tournement ?

I would like to know this as well. If it was my tournament i'd disqualify people for using it as I consider it cheating.

Arekonator
08-12-2017, 11:49 PM
I just want to point out the hypocrisy here where the community got so pissed at the indicator glitch, but then another glitch comes to light that pretty much makes attacks unparryable or in some cases faster than they should be but no one cares about that.

Not sure what you are talking about here, on forums and on various FH streams pretty much everyone outright said the unparryable unlock should go out of the game. I dont recall anyone defending it, including people who used it.

brashtralas
08-13-2017, 12:08 AM
I just want to point out the hypocrisy here where the community got so pissed at the indicator glitch, but then another glitch comes to light that pretty much makes attacks unparryable or in some cases faster than they should be but no one cares about that.
An aspect that I don't think many are realizin, is it's impact on 4v4 where you actually need to be able to cycle opponents.

Glitches are glitches and should all be fixed. The reason people are defending this one is because they abuse it, and it's handy in "high level play."

So, no good reason at all.

AzureSky.
08-13-2017, 12:24 AM
This is exactly like i said before, people spamming 500ms lights with cc spam and unlock tech, they almost never parried in the game (turtle were????) and this was a high elo tournament, im glad they didnt roll out the parry changes.

kweassa1
08-13-2017, 02:25 AM
There is no such thing as a "fine tech".

When you alter a normal course of action into performing outside its designated and allowed levels that's by definition "cheating". It's simply an abuse of abnormal action.

To an extent, even the Conq's heavy-feint and the Nobushi's light-soft feint are all something that should be ground out of the game eventually.


Anything that's not designated UP should be possible to parry, and anything that's designated at X milliseconds should should come out only at that X milliseconds, because our reactions and tactics are built around a state of normalcy which allows it to be predictable, and therefore possible to react upon it.

When you take that predictability away by 'changing the rule' secretly behind the other guy's back, that's simply foul.


There is no such thing as a "fine" tech.

Sir_rage_quit
08-13-2017, 02:30 AM
There is no such thing as a "fine tech".

When you alter a normal course of action into performing outside its designated and allowed levels that's by definition "cheating". It's simply an abuse of abnormal action.

To an extent, even the Conq's heavy-feint and the Nobushi's light-soft feint are all something that should be ground out of the game eventually.


Anything that's not designated UP should be possible to parry, and anything that's designated at X milliseconds should should come out only at that X milliseconds, because our reactions and tactics are built around a state of normalcy which allows it to be predictable, and therefore possible to react upon it.

When you take that predictability away by 'changing the rule' secretly behind the other guy's back, that's simply foul.


There is no such thing as a "fine" tech.

i agree with you but Ubi seem to disagree that why they are going to give 10k to a bug abuser .

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-13-2017, 03:50 PM
Never seen a conqueror feint till i faced one that knew unlock tech

AnEnticingSquid
08-13-2017, 03:55 PM
sucks you feel that way. techs are pretty much essential in fighting games.
unlock tech that speeds up attacks is perfectly fine.

No one cares about unlock tech speeding up attacks... we care about unlock attacks being unparryable this giving an unfair advantage to the player and Cleary CLEARLY is an exploit. I really hope you aren't trying to defend the way these bastards played...

kweassa1
08-13-2017, 04:44 PM
Let's make this very clear.

The only reason fighting games have tolerated "techs" in the past is simply because up until around 2010 most fighting games were only serviced in the form of arcade machines. It was only in relatively recent years that the technological advancements in network speeds and stability have become powerful enough to support fighting games. Before 2010;

(1) western game companies hardly ever made fighting games in the first place3
(2) the fighting games market was dominated almost exclusively by Japanese developers who provided the games only in arcades and console ports
(3) console networking wasn't powerful enough to support world-wide matchmaking over the internet
(4) and therefore once a game was released there was no way to really fix bugs at all
(5) Japanese game developers were hardly as "customer friendly" as western game developers, so they didn't even bother to patch stuff

Cut the bullkrap of explaining "techs" as some integral part of fighting games -- which it is not. The only way the game developers could ever fix some glitch or bug in game was to simply release the next of the series in the franchise 2~3 years later. That's why things didn't get fixed, that's why people just decided to take it in as a part of the game -- BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ALTERNATIVE.

In the end, all these "techs" do in reality is warp and force the game into unintended results to ruin the balance and integrity of the game. In almost EVERY 2D fighting game series that came as a part of the "King of Fighters" franchise from SNK since 1994 was riddled with so much "tech" krap that allowed abnormal shi* like infini-combos that just killed the balance, that the franchise basically went dead and it took SNK with it.

On the contrary NAMCO's Tekken series remained surprisingly solid and stable throughout most of its franchise and only a handful of bugs and glitches ever existed that affected the game in any level of importance. Not only that, but NAMCO was the FIRST arcade fighting game developer that actually released a PATCHED VERSION of a title that fixed bugs and balance issues. They did this with Tekken 5, and replaced the game with Tekken 5 DR version, which became a critical success. There are almost no abnormal bugs or glitches in the Tekken series and its one of the reasons why the Tekken franchise is still alive and well despite shrinking popularity of fighting games.


Things have changed. Even games on consoles can receive online patching and bugfixes nowadays. In this new environment THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why a glitch abuse should allowed to persist under the false pretense of some "tech" bullshi*, because abusing a known problem is no "tech". That's not even how the original term of "tech" was first used.

The first instances of the term 'tech' came around in the early days of internet and Tekken 3 and Tekken TT -- when western gamers didn't have access to the official Japanese manuals or movelists that documented the names of moves and combat systems. So in the internet, some virtuous people had to dig up stuff and translate it by themselves and compile it into English version manuals, and other stuff they purely had to discover by themselves. The first instances of the term "tech" comes from "tech rolls" in Tekken where when you timed the buttons as your character was being knocked down, it would immediately roll away and recover its posture, ready to fight again. Western gamers that discovered how this was done compiled the information in their manuals and called it a "tech roll".

It wasn't some secret technique or anything. It's a part of the system from the very beginning. But western gamers at first didn't know that and thought it was some kind of hidden technique, so that's when they started calling some system mechanics as "techs".

In other words, even the term "tech" is a gross mockery and disrespectful insult to the origins of this particular fighting game jargon. The term "tech" isn't some bogus krap that's supposed to wash away your guilt of abusing bugs/glitches. "Tech" was literally a term for a part of the system western gamers didn't know about.


So don't use the "tech is integral in any fighting game" excuse. It's INSULTING to old timers and real fighting gamers of old. Back in those days, we didn't call bug abusing behavior "tech". Bug abusing is bug abusing.

Alustar.
08-13-2017, 04:45 PM
No one cares about unlock tech speeding up attacks... we care about unlock attacks being unparryable this giving an unfair advantage to the player and Cleary CLEARLY is an exploit. I really hope you aren't trying to defend the way these bastards played...

Actually, I do. I care about unlock exploits doing anything to alter the basic properties of attacks as this leads to unfair gimmicks with certain moves. If for no other reason than that all attacks are not treated equally.
However that aside, this isn't like the dawn of fighting games where an accidental glitch ends up forming a whole new paradigm of how we designed and executed combos. This glitch isn't assisting gameplay by adding depth, and if I'm correct it's not something that's been widely discussed until recently. Reason being we can only guess at but it stands to warrant that only a select few people were even aware that this glitch was as widely usable as it is.

I've normally been a voice of moderation, even trying to play devils advocate for Ubisoft. This is not a good look, though and I hope this gets addressed very soon.

kweassa1
08-13-2017, 04:52 PM
Actually, I do. I care about unlock exploits doing anything to alter the basic properties of attacks as this leads to unfair gimmicks with certain moves. If for no other reason than that all attacks are not treated equally.
However that aside, this isn't like the dawn of fighting games where an accidental glitch ends up forming a whole new paradigm of how we designed and executed combos. This glitch isn't assisting gameplay by adding depth, and if I'm correct it's not something that's been widely discussed until recently. Reason being we can only guess at but it stands to warrant that only a select few people were even aware that this glitch was as widely usable as it is.

I've normally been a voice of moderation, even trying to play devils advocate for Ubisoft. This is not a good look, though and I hope this gets addressed very soon.

Agreed.

As I've written in my post right above yours, even in the dawn of games people like me still called bug abuse as "BUG ABUSE". I dunno just when meanings became so twisted and corrupted that "tech" became an excuse for a bug abuse, but apparently it happened some time between 2005 ~ 2010... because even back in 2004 when Tekken 5 was released, people didn't call bug abuse "tech".

CandleInTheDark
08-13-2017, 04:57 PM
Definitely a +1 to caring about that, it was sickening to watch a player using his whole kit start out strong then start to wither as more and more of the constant sped up zones caught him.

Jasado
08-13-2017, 05:01 PM
Anyone who condones abusing bugs as a valid strategy and acceptable behavior is a whack *** jive turkey who does not have this game's health or best interest at heart. That includes you, Ubisoft. I get you were on the spot at the tournament so you have to take the L, but if you don't take a hard stance against this kind of **** in future tournament and be official about it, I will be able to see loud and clear you have no actual respect for your own games health or honor.

Watching that tournament was a ****show. High level play is a joke. Compare this to say, Operation Health from Rainbow Six Siege where they actually showed dedication to fixing their game instead of paying people for abusing it, and witnesses start to see where your real dedications lie.

Jarl.Felix
08-13-2017, 05:07 PM
I'm amazed how they allow glitches and exploits in competitive gaming and devs even go like " Everything it's fine, we will fix that in the patch x.xx, don't worry"

Like, how it's even possible as a gaming company, at your organized tournament not to forsee absolutely none of this problems. How can they act so surprised by the problem only when we signal it to them ?

Because let's be fair... they knew about all of this and yet they did nothing... only marketing and pursuing customers money, bam bam watch our we got a new season and in the end zero respect for the final user.

Alustar.
08-13-2017, 05:08 PM
Agreed.

As I've written in my post right above yours, even in the dawn of games people like me still called bug abuse as "BUG ABUSE". I dunno just when meanings became so twisted and corrupted that "tech" became an excuse for a bug abuse, but apparently it happened some time between 2005 ~ 2010... because even back in 2004 when Tekken 5 was released, people didn't call bug abuse "tech".

That's what I don't understand, it's design versus flaw. In fighting games I've seen that post date 1990s the mechanics have been tested and worked to promote creative and skilled gameplay. Like in tekken/street fighter and the like, cancels and combo linkers allow you to keep pressure or deal maximum damage on solid connects, hell even PlayStation all stars had some awesome hidden nuggets each character could do with their move sets.
Altering hits to connect faster than they should is just as bad as Prackeepers being able to spam lights repeatedly with no consequence.
This is t some uniform mechanic that the dev team had in there to say help with 1vX situations, as there is no standard value for the effects across the board for each class. It's a bug. Like the PK flicker and warden unlocked 1shot.
But apparently because only "high skilled" streamers really knew about it in depth apparently it's seen as top tier play. FFS

Vakris_One
08-13-2017, 05:22 PM
Well at least Roman had the balls to say to the winner at the end, "You'll have to change your playstyle soon." which tells me that he's not entirely happy with the rampant display of exploit abuse throughout this tournament. Hopefully that means these exploits will be patched out or in the very least will become a bannable offense in tournaments.

It's just not healthy for the game to reward exploit abuse like this.

CandleInTheDark
08-13-2017, 05:25 PM
Well at least Roman had the balls to say to the winner at the end, "You'll have to change your playstyle soon." which tells me that he's not entirely happy with the rampant display of exploit abuse throughout this tournament. Hopefully that means these exploits will be patched out or in the very least will become a bannable offense in tournaments.

It's just not healthy for the game to reward exploit abuse like this.

I didn't know he said that, was early hours for me, I'd had enough and it would have taken something very good from 1v1s to keep me up lol. Honestly the fact that the casters were drooling over the prospect of seeing some new unlock tech someone had come up with turned me off of it before the Hero reveal, so once the brawls were mostly done there was nothing to keep me since I always figured I would just catch dominion in the morning.

Linnix1
08-13-2017, 05:25 PM
Watch him mean that as in use that crap with gladiator instead of bushi. If that's the case I might drop dead from laughter right before I damn ubis name to hell

CandleInTheDark
08-13-2017, 05:31 PM
Watch him mean that as in use that crap with gladiator instead of bushi. If that's the case I might drop dead from laughter right before I damn ubis name to hell

Eh I'd give them time over it, a good many of the last few patches have had unlock tech dealt with and they have said more than once they want moves to have the same properties in and out of lock. They made the point one Den that they have not put this unlock stuff in recently, it has always been there but it's taken people this long to find them and there are more people spending a lot of time finding these. My main complaint is there needs to be one set message being sent out and the casters had a different one to what the devs have been saying.

Sir_rage_quit
08-13-2017, 07:26 PM
Ah I see. well. if we see a nobushi I might agree. but she usually doesn't show up in tourney.

i got some new for you buddy , if you did not already knew a unlock tech bug abuser Won and it was as Nobushi. GG Ubisoft you ****ed up

Oupyz
08-13-2017, 07:33 PM
actually i'am so against you when it comes to unlock tech , basically parry is the most broken **** in the game right now , defensive play is so rewarding that if unlock tech is not abused , no one would attack , they just need to take parry reward first and foremost , at the moment u really don't need to attack just stare and parry it wins you the game and thats what is wrong with the game

sadly parry nerf didn't make it in the 15th of august patch

Sir_rage_quit
08-13-2017, 07:36 PM
actually i'am so against you when it comes to unlock tech , basically parry is the most broken **** in the game right now , defensive play is so rewarding that if unlock tech is not abused , no one would attack , they just need to take parry reward first and foremost , at the moment u really don't need to attack just stare and parry it wins you the game and thats what is wrong with the game

sadly parry nerf didn't make it in the 15th of august patch

well i agree parry is a problem but using bug is not and should not be the answer

Oupyz
08-13-2017, 07:39 PM
the way parry is implemented is a disaster in this game and it's all sort of the game problem
1) it's very easy to parry
2) it's a very very rewarding
3) it's the biggest issue of the defensive meta

parry needs to change , it should reward a light on all heroes

it shouldn't give free gb anymore

70% of the game problem will be gone once parry is changed