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View Full Version : To the devs and my fellow Shugobros



TSCDescon
08-06-2017, 05:51 PM
As a Shugoki main, I would like to see some changes that will make the Shugoki competitive again. Since the new season is coming and pc players are playing the public test, not have I seen anyone, even youtubers play a Shugoki. Also, not to mention even in the forums he is less mention. Here are a few things I would like for the Shugoki to make him competitive once again.

Light attacks – right now and probably even after the next patch, the Shugoki is still the slowest character in the game. His light attacks are easily parried. A buff for this is to make his light attacks a bit faster.

Heavy attacks – it is slow and easily parry along with his lights. A faster startup will be a good buff.

Charge heavy – allow it to cancel at fully charge.

Uninterruptable Stance – remove the increase damage taken when the stance consumed. I can’t stress enough how fast I go down when my stance is consumed; making my healthpool that of an assassins. No tanks should take extra damage, when they are classified as a Tank.

Charge of the Oni – I can’t stress enough how this move was nerf to the ground on patch 1.06. Please bring back the prepatch oni charge and only make it knock down OOS opponent. And maybe increase the stamina cost.

Demon’s Embrace – health gain during the back break and not when the opponent gets thrown to the ground. Either let the Shugoki user cancel demon’s embrace or make it have a faster startup. Remove the instant kill at critical health, but keep the bonus healing.

Note: All these are buffs/nerfs. The Shugoki did not receive any buffs during season 2 making him the most forgotten character in the game. I hope the developers would read this post and take it to consideration. Don’t let me down by not replying. I love playing the fatman.

Alustar.
08-06-2017, 07:01 PM
I honestly just came here because the word "shugobros" >_>

kweassa1
08-06-2017, 07:13 PM
1. Shug lights aren't particularly slow. Just average.

2. Heavy actually has 3 different timings. It really could use the feint during a charged UB mode, tho'.

3. Agree with this one. Shug needs to have DEFAULT defense without UI, and EXTRA with UI -- not the other way around.

4. Disagree with Onicharge. All it needs is that stamina regen blocker removed

5. Disagree with the Dembrace as well. The risk is necessary, IMO. I'd really love a no-self HP bust at the price of no HP healed, but ah well.


They said they'd look into Samurai classes, but during the process got new priorities with general fixes and season3.. let's hope they get an overhaul once season3 starts.

TSCDescon
08-06-2017, 08:56 PM
Oni Charge needs to knock down OOS. If not, why else would anyone use that move for? High-skilled players will not fight you close to a ledge. Even without the a ledge, they'll just stand still because it doesn't do anything besides the little stagger.

Demon's Embrace needs a rework regardless of buffs or nerfs anyways.

Don't forget you don't get a free guard break after a parry anymore on season 3. So, no more wall throw and demons embrace.

Smeson
08-06-2017, 09:21 PM
Sure, but get rid of the hyper armor. The only thing Shugokis does is wait for an attack, dosent block, GB and throw u in a wall and demons embrace. Like everyone only does that. Tell me how you pros counter that.

Moondyne_MC
08-06-2017, 10:48 PM
Sure, but get rid of the hyper armor. The only thing Shugokis does is wait for an attack, dosent block, GB and throw u in a wall and demons embrace. Like everyone only does that. Tell me how you pros counter that.

You could try feinting your initial attack.. that'll leave you free to CGB the Shugo, and it'll remove his hyper armour.

Or you could try actually playing Shugo to discover just how limited of a character he is, and how badly that hyper armour can mess you up in a 2v1 (try mistiming a parry and instead of stumbling or blocking, you continue the full animation and end up eating extra attacks because of it).

Antonioj26
08-06-2017, 10:56 PM
Sure, but get rid of the hyper armor. The only thing Shugokis does is wait for an attack, dosent block, GB and throw u in a wall and demons embrace. Like everyone only does that. Tell me how you pros counter that.

Then just gb him. He's really not good. Try playing as him, and if there are no walls nearby he's completely useless.

UbiNoty
08-06-2017, 11:23 PM
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll make a note of it to the team :)
Like others have mentioned, we've kind of pushed off hero balancing to get stuff done with the defense meta update but we'll soon be putting hero balance back into top priority. I don't know how plans for Shugoki have changed since we introduced the def meta plans, but he is someone we've said that we want to buff up a bit for a while now.

And if you're looking for some inspirational shugoki players, SophieMcSophieFace on twitch plays a mean shugoki and she got pretty far in the Hero Series tournament maining him :D

SangLong524
08-06-2017, 11:24 PM
Shugokis are horrible in 1 on 1 duel. His move sets need work. Attacks telegraphs too much. I find myself inclined to do a light then headbutt to chip away opponent health and reposition myself rather than do a follow up attacks just to be parried. And I definitely don't claim to be a good duelist. However, currently a sneaky Shug is still a nightmare on the field. Surprise embrace from behind or a headbutt can change the tide easily. Tanks don't need the kills themselves.

Between buffing a hero to the point that they can solo in the name of balance or tuning them to work cohesively in a team, I prefer the later. U don't even need communication for that to work. I had had team that stepped up and stepped back when situation called for appropriate actions. And I had teams of morons, of course, But i'd rather not talk about it.

I think a fully charged heavy can use some buff though. It's easily parried and the failure punishment combined with follow up hits are a bit too much. Shugoki is a good as dead then. Maybe give fully charged heavy hyper armor like Hurricane Blast while other penalties remain, perhaps.

XxHunterHxX
08-07-2017, 08:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IXirYcff84\

one of the best players in the game seems to play just fine and not say he has problems ?

Tyrjo
08-08-2017, 03:32 PM
Shugoki is fun to play but very limited in what he can do. In duels, as long as your opponent know the Shugoki move set and his strength (or maybe you should call it weakness), the UI stance, you have no chance.

Like someone said, if there is no wall close he is almost useless. Once his UI stance is consumed he pretty much completely useless.

kweassa1
08-08-2017, 03:36 PM
Shugoki is fun to play but very limited in what he can do. In duels, as long as your opponent know the Shugoki move set and his strength (or maybe you should call it weakness), the UI stance, you have no chance.

Like someone said, if there is no wall close he is almost useless. Once his UI stance is consumed he pretty much completely useless.

The shug's gonna lose the parry-gb-Demon's Embrace in season3, which will affect the current balance of things quite a bit. Also, the devs did promise to take a look at the samurai classes, and this promise is still pending. So we really need to wait out what season3 brings and how specific relative balance changes between the classes to really compile a list of ideas and changes, because as it is, it is more than likely whatever complaints we have about that tub o' lard is going to be moot after season3 comes.

ItBeJUSTICE1
08-08-2017, 06:45 PM
If shugoki gets buffed he needs a nerf on the things that make him obnoxious to play against. Playing as a shugoki isn't the only aspect the devs needa look at. He's more annoying then peackekeeper

That_guy44
08-08-2017, 07:26 PM
His headbutt takes too much stamina to use imo. A lot of times I will trade with my opponent only using a light and headbutt and I will be the one in OOS. And this is from full stamina. How sway? The headbutt doesn't do that much damage to your opponent at the moment. Yes, their stamina takes a hit but so does yours. Also, I guess the stun was to cover up your mistake of putting yourself in OOS, because you knock them well out of range unless there is a wall nearby.

Tyrjo
08-08-2017, 07:34 PM
The shug's gonna lose the parry-gb-Demon's Embrace in season3, which will affect the current balance of things quite a bit.

Yes, that will be an issue indeed. Since they are changing GB timings as well I think it will be harder to tank one hit in UI stance in order to land the GB as well.

Jarl.Felix
08-08-2017, 08:50 PM
Shugoki is basicaly OP by simply having constant hyperarmor. If you know how to play him, you can basicaly be unstoppable.

If it was for me i would have reduced the time hyperarmor regenerates, it's absurd. all you have is to wait for it, turtle and bam, you can go offensive again without being hit.

Genious.

TSCDescon
08-08-2017, 11:56 PM
@SirFelix87
If the devs do nerf his UI, the extra damage taken should be removed as well to compensate that nerf.

If I'm not mistaken, takes 3 seconds (without blocking or hit) for the UI regenerate, then about 5 seconds (blocking or getting hit) for it to regenerate.

Also, it depends on the situation for playing offensive as a Shugoki. In a 4v4, yeah playing offensive is a good idea because you have teammates.

However; in a 1v1 situation, a offensive Shugoki is a dead Shugoki, in his current state. Why?

You have to take into consideration that he is the slowest among the heavy classes and one of the easiest character to parry.

TSCDescon
08-09-2017, 12:09 AM
@Smeson
My advice is get a friend to help you test out the time it takes for the UI to regenerate (after it is consumed) and how long it will take for it to regenerate while getting hit or blocking. Once you understand the timing of the UI, you'll have less trouble playing against a Shugoki.

TSCDescon
08-09-2017, 12:17 AM
The shug's gonna lose the parry-gb-Demon's Embrace in season3, which will affect the current balance of things quite a bit. Also, the devs did promise to take a look at the samurai classes, and this promise is still pending. So we really need to wait out what season3 brings and how specific relative balance changes between the classes to really compile a list of ideas and changes, because as it is, it is more than likely whatever complaints we have about that tub o' lard is going to be moot after season3 comes.

Didn't the devs say they were going to buff the Samurai faction, yet only mentions Kensei, Orochi, and Nobushi. Then in the end it was Kensei that got a little buff to his side dash attack and helm splitter. And the reason why the devs aren't focusing much on the "tub o' lard" is because barely anyone plays him, so they don't have the "data" to find what needs changing. Even youtubers have left him and play cents/warlord/warden. I still see more conqs then "tub o' lard" to be very honest. I've search on youtube for a video on public test 2 shugoki and couldn't find any besides Mege who only shows what all characters can do after a light parry which is absurd because cent is just broken as ever.

TSCDescon
08-09-2017, 12:48 AM
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll make a note of it to the team :)
Like others have mentioned, we've kind of pushed off hero balancing to get stuff done with the defense meta update but we'll soon be putting hero balance back into top priority.

I'm sorry, but you have a whole season to balance characters, not a whole year.

UbiJurassic
08-09-2017, 01:29 AM
I'm sorry, but you have a whole season to balance characters, not a whole year.

The reason some balancing efforts are being held off by the defense meta changes is because the defense changes have a varying effect on how each hero's moves interact in the game. After PTS 2, moves intended to be used as parry punishes, like Lawbringer's Blind Justice, became ineffectual. Because these defense meta changes are not yet final and are prone to change, we don't want to commit to particular balancing efforts that may have to be redone or reversed in the near future.

TSCDescon
08-09-2017, 02:32 AM
The reason some balancing efforts are being held off by the defense meta changes is because the defense changes have a varying effect on how each hero's moves interact in the game. After PTS 2, moves intended to be used as parry punishes, like Lawbringer's Blind Justice, became ineffectual. Because these defense meta changes are not yet final and are prone to change, we don't want to commit to particular balancing efforts that may have to be redone or reversed in the near future.

We're talking about Shugoki and the position he is at right now. He is not in a good position judging from your PTS2, why? There is no videos of anyone playing him, no one even mentions him on forums besides, probably me. If I have to wait until season 3 is launched for character balances, so be it. But, if the live dev stream mention nothing about character balancing regarding to the Shugoki, I'm sorry but you just lost a die hard fan. I have been patient for this long so don't make me wait any longer for simple fixes.

TSCDescon
08-09-2017, 02:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IXirYcff84\

one of the best players in the game seems to play just fine and not say he has problems ?

That's just a 20 second clip of him knocking people off legdes on a 4v4... Nothing "competitive" about that.

kweassa1
08-09-2017, 02:58 AM
We're talking about Shugoki and the position he is at right now. He is not in a good position judging from your PTS2, why? There is no videos of anyone playing him, no one even mentions him on forums besides, probably me. If I have to wait until season 3 is launched for character balances, so be it. But, if the live dev stream mention nothing about character balancing regarding to the Shugoki, I'm sorry but you just lost a die hard fan. I have been patient for this long so don't make me wait any longer for simple fixes.

If you must know, in PTS2 the shug both gains and loses some things.

what he loses
- loss of parry-gb attacks is certainly a big minus for the big guy

what he gains
- easier to play more aggressively since parry change works both ways
- increased chip damage synergizing nicely with his light attack combos which aren't interrupted by block
- headbutt even more threatening than ever
- in 4v4 modes, T1 iron lungs and T2 rocksteady even more effective after OOS changes. T3 punch through + blockdam gear simply 'glorious' to use


For me. at least, I enjoyed the shug a lot better in PTS2 than in current LIVE, where all I could do is just look for light-headbutts and wall-flop Embraces. So I wouldn't exactly brush off the meta-fix as negative for the shug. That's why I said "we really need to see what season3 brings first"

kweassa1
08-09-2017, 04:18 AM
(ps) forgot to add "his krap-tastically slow heavies are now more safe against GBs" to the 'what he gained' section. :rolleyes:

TSCDescon
08-09-2017, 10:17 PM
If you must know, in PTS2 the shug both gains and loses some things.

what he loses
- loss of parry-gb attacks is certainly a big minus for the big guy

what he gains
- easier to play more aggressively since parry change works both ways
- increased chip damage synergizing nicely with his light attack combos which aren't interrupted by block
- headbutt even more threatening than ever
- in 4v4 modes, T1 iron lungs and T2 rocksteady even more effective after OOS changes. T3 punch through + blockdam gear simply 'glorious' to use


For me. at least, I enjoyed the shug a lot better in PTS2 than in current LIVE, where all I could do is just look for light-headbutts and wall-flop Embraces. So I wouldn't exactly brush off the meta-fix as negative for the shug. That's why I said "we really need to see what season3 brings first"

I do like that he can't be parry when his opponent is OOS, but the main problem here is if he can catch his opponent. You have characters with extremely far dashing, basically assassin characters, who can just dodge repeatedly because their dodges are faster than the Shugoki's run speed. The headbutt does good stamina damage but little to no stun. But, after you manage to land a headbutt, and cause the opponent to be OOS, you've just created a distance for your opponent to regain their stamina back. Not all of their stamina but enough to wait it out. Also, about this light > heavy combo, you can now just dodge backwards and avoid it. Remember feint into guard break doesn't work as much anymore, not to mention shugoki has a weak feinting game. Will those stats be change once season 3 comes? If I'm not mistaken, the gears are getting reworked again, aren't they?

TSCDescon
08-09-2017, 10:19 PM
(ps) forgot to add "his krap-tastically slow heavies are now more safe against GBs" to the 'what he gained' section. :rolleyes:

That's good to know, but still easily parried.

TSCDescon
08-09-2017, 10:20 PM
I think Shugokis headbutt should be able to knock people off ledges if they are by one. Every other character with a pushing ability can knock people off ledges with it so why can't Shugoki?

Exactly. Warlord's headbutt knocks off ledge, why can't shugoki's?