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View Full Version : Deflect should break chains



TheTKOShow
08-01-2017, 02:10 AM
Simply if I deflect a warlor leaping heavy he is still able to throw the headbutt.

Deflect should break chains

Anyone agree or disagree

Alustar.
08-01-2017, 02:19 AM
I agree. Blocking does.

psyminion
08-01-2017, 03:02 AM
I completely agree

TheTKOShow
08-01-2017, 03:40 AM
This would help the assassin class immensely, we are already the squishes of for honor.

Also can you be deflected if you have revenge come new patch.

kweassa1
08-01-2017, 04:15 AM
So block or parry then.

Deflection is a hybrid between defense and offense. With correct prediction it most usually lands your immediate counter attacks before enemy has recovered from previous action.

You really can't expect deflect to have all the same merits as other three reactive defensive options without any drawbacks, IMO.

bmason1000
08-01-2017, 04:28 AM
Disagree...i love slamming a two axe top heavy after pk and orochi deflects haha

nufrancis
08-01-2017, 04:51 AM
Disagree...i love slamming a two axe top heavy after pk and orochi deflects haha

Hate Zerker for this :mad:

agreed, Deflect should stop any chain.

Btw, how about unblockables? it can be deflected or not? havent tried it yet

Existentialmeme
08-01-2017, 05:47 AM
Nah deflect should not stop chains.. that'll make deflect not a deflect...
Orochi can deflect heavy trade zerker top heavy, or can deflect light to counter headbutt in my experience.
instead deflect should give you some extra defense or something for a very short time.

Also you cannot deflect an unblockable, which is annoying xD

Tyrjo
08-01-2017, 06:00 AM
So block or parry then.

Deflection is a hybrid between defense and offense. With correct prediction it most usually lands your immediate counter attacks before enemy has recovered from previous action.

You really can't expect deflect to have all the same merits as other three reactive defensive options without any drawbacks, IMO.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Sneaky-Patches
08-01-2017, 07:38 AM
Deflect for shinobi is currently broken though. The light attack or kick after avdeflect almost always never hits or reaches the opponent, and also the bleed damage from multiple doesn't stack. And you can't do any damage with it until the first deflect bleed has ran out.

kweassa1
08-01-2017, 08:22 AM
Multiple applications of same bleeds not stacking on a single target is not a bug. It's just policy.

Same with Nobushi, same with PK -- It never stacks, only "refreshes" duration.

Alustar.
08-01-2017, 08:49 AM
Hate Zerker for this :mad:

agreed, Deflect should stop any chain.

Btw, how about unblockables? it can be deflected or not? havent tried it yet

To my experience a deflect will not work on an in unblockable, that or the timing is very very tight

Alustar.
08-01-2017, 08:52 AM
So block or parry then.

Deflection is a hybrid between defense and offense. With correct prediction it most usually lands your immediate counter attacks before enemy has recovered from previous action.

You really can't expect deflect to have all the same merits as other three reactive defensive options without any drawbacks, IMO.


Disagree...i love slamming a two axe top heavy after pk and orochi deflects haha

This is really the reason here. Even if my timing is good on this, Anyone with hyperarmor is going to slap you out of a deflect with it.

Sneaky-Patches
08-01-2017, 09:30 AM
Multiple applications of same bleeds not stacking on a single target is not a bug. It's just policy.

Same with Nobushi, same with PK -- It never stacks, only "refreshes" duration.

That's honestly so terrible! Another reason why shinobi is such a bad gimmick hero. Zerker gets a GB where he can toss someone into a wall and top heavy them half to death, but they gave the weakest assasin a useless deflect and also no dodge attack. Just super predictable and punishable straight line attacks that don't work on good players. I think I'm done.. I'll come back when the servers are here and see if it's balanced.

Alustar.
08-01-2017, 09:53 AM
So here's another way to look at it, deflect is supposed to be a defensive mechanic. How effective is A defensive manuever that still leaves your opponent free to follow through with his attack chain. At least with the Zerk you get a free GB in that stops combat.

Sneaky-Patches
08-01-2017, 11:03 AM
So here's another way to look at it, deflect is supposed to be a defensive mechanic. How effective is A defensive manuever that still leaves your opponent free to follow through with his attack chain. At least with the Zerk you get a free GB in that stops combat.

It's not useful at all if it can't interrupt a wave of spam just swinging through it. I understand the need to speed up combat, but turning it into a light spam festival with ne reward to pull off difficult moves isn't the solution either. Zerker only needs two or 3 deflects tops per enemy to kill them, and can start whatever mixup chain straight from it, whereas the supposed glass cannon shinobi needs like 12 or so, and all of them have to be performemed after waiting 10 seconds apart until you can proc bleed again.

bmason1000
08-01-2017, 02:26 PM
Shinobi deflect has good damage, halts combat completely and creates distance that you can attack from while your enemy can not. Every time i get deflected by a shinobi i definitely feel it and have to rethink my strategy. I think shinobi deflect is pretty good.

Snoop_Godly
08-01-2017, 02:56 PM
Orchi wind gust stops chains. Hurricane blast does not. So if a warlord leaps at you? Wind gust. He won't get the head but out. Plus you get another free light if your quick enough. Zerker won't get his top heavy. But. You can always use hurricane blast on the zerker top heavy after the chain. He won't hit you and you get all that damage. If you use slip through as well. Then wind gust is a more viable option. But zerker has the best. Only problem is that If you are in a hank situation and your looking at person a and deflect person b. You gb person b but still remain locked into person a. I think ubisoft needs to take a look into that because it's such a short window to personally switch targets to the person you have just deflect gb'd. 9 times out of 10 person b will just push you away.

kweassa1
08-01-2017, 04:12 PM
It's not useful at all if it can't interrupt a wave of spam just swinging through it. I understand the need to speed up combat, but turning it into a light spam festival with ne reward to pull off difficult moves isn't the solution either.

So block or parry.

Again, in almost all cases deflect is a offense+defense hybrid mechanic, and counter attacks spawning from deflection are predominantly UB. You're asking for a defense mechanic to deal guaranteed damage on all accounts. You're basically asking for a superior block-dodge the Conqueror has.



Zerker only needs two or 3 deflects tops per enemy to kill them, and can start whatever mixup chain straight from it, whereas the supposed glass cannon shinobi needs like 12 or so, and all of them have to be performemed after waiting 10 seconds apart until you can proc bleed again.

Because the Berserker is most commonly referred to as a "nuking" class. It's neither fast as the shinobi, nor universal-usage like the PK, and doesn't have superior light attacks like the Orochi. The only thing it has is base assassin capability + shi*load of damage. Not to mention that the parry-GB isn't going to exactly work too well in the new meta where all attacks are only vulnerable between 0.0 ~ 0.1s to GBs.

As it is shinobi's the only class that has a guaranteed damage after a deflect mechanic (no, Orochi deflect-light doesn't interrupt) and that comes with the territory where a failed/mistimed deflect would result in like 1/3~1/2 his HP being blown off.


Deflect isn't some sort of upgraded version of block/parry that you can ask for hefty rewards every time you succeed. It's a defensive mechanic with different utility than blocks/parries which require you to choose your moment of use.

LordDarkMoth
08-01-2017, 04:26 PM
So block or parry then.

Deflection is a hybrid between defense and offense. With correct prediction it most usually lands your immediate counter attacks before enemy has recovered from previous action.

You really can't expect deflect to have all the same merits as other three reactive defensive options without any drawbacks, IMO.

I'd say a parry has some offensive properties too in that case. i agree deflect should break chains.

Sneaky-Patches
08-02-2017, 02:55 AM
So block or parry.

Again, in almost all cases deflect is a offense+defense hybrid mechanic, and counter attacks spawning from deflection are predominantly UB. You're asking for a defense mechanic to deal guaranteed damage on all accounts. You're basically asking for a superior block-dodge the Conqueror has.




Yeah but you just made up your own theory of what everything in the game is and it's intended function, then just tell people how it was intended to be based solely on your own speculation, then strawman what I'm arguing.


I'm asking for balance. I want to see a shinobi have the same chance at winning a tourney as a raider. I'm asking for all the assasins to have a worthwhile deflect, and for it to actually be worth trying to pull off damage wise as it's hard enough to do on console. At least harder than spamming light attacks at people which is the meta considering the lag.

Orochi has a nice choice of light guaranteed, or heavy with massive damage that can also be feinted into mixups/ storm rush/ second or third deflects/ gb/ feinted into dodge attack.

Zerkers gets an amazing one with a free gb, and if you throw someone into a wall with it you can top heavy them for huge damage.

Pk gets a pretty good one, not brilliant, but considering PK is undoubtedly the best assasin on the roster because all of her moveset is excellent.

The shinobi, considering he has probably the worst moveset against experienced players, no health, no dodge attacks which is so important for an assasin char (as if they miss deflects, they can just continue into a dodge attack anyway). Also shinobis deflect Is currently broken (light/kick after deflect not landing most of the time), can't refresh the bleed, can't stack bleed which is total BS ( you basically have some artificial limit on how many times you can hit someone for no reason at all). And it still takes like 9 deflects on the bot. Anyone stacking bleed debuff stat will reduce your attack damage even further, and I think some classes have feats making them immune to bleed entirely. With the smallest HP of all the assasins by a mile, making it an incredible risk, and no free dodge attack either when you miss, you'd think for balance sake you'd make it spectacular.





Because the Berserker is most commonly referred to as a "nuking" class. It's neither fast as the shinobi, nor universal-usage like the PK, and doesn't have superior light attacks like the Orochi. The only thing it has is base assassin capability + shi*load of damage. Not to mention that the parry-GB isn't going to exactly work too well in the new meta where all attacks are only vulnerable between 0.0 ~ 0.1s to GBs.

As it is shinobi's the only class that has a guaranteed damage after a deflect mechanic (no, Orochi deflect-light doesn't interrupt) and that comes with the territory where a failed/mistimed deflect would result in like 1/3~1/2 his HP being blown off.


Deflect isn't some sort of upgraded version of block/parry that you can ask for hefty rewards every time you succeed. It's a defensive mechanic with different utility than blocks/parries which require you to choose your moment of use.

you say only shinobi has guaranteed damage, but I have not once in all my time playing both PK and Orochi to near rep 8ish, not been able to land the following lights after. I still mostly get off orochis heavy deflect with no problems. Zerker is the only one who may not get guaranteed damage off of it if he is getting ganked, but it's hands down the strongest deflect going, and can lead directly into a top heavy into a full mixup. Also provided the zerker has the best dodge attacks for group fighting he doesn't really need it.

Zerker is better than shinobi by a mile. Such a good feint game it makes you not want to deflect/parry at all. Gadgets that are amazing, compare throwing stars (half of a hp bar, can be dodged) to a bear trap that can't even be disabled for free ledge kills or massive jumping top heavies. He also has more useful / useable agility in the form of dodge attacks and can move around groups of opponents fluidly, herding them and chunking their health, while always dealing damage while moving. Impossible to gb as he's always spin attacking, huge damage per hit, and when buffed with bleed can slap an entire group to pieces in two hits a piece.

Shinobi can't even deal damage while moving! How is this mobile? (Unless you count the zone attack which is like giving away a free parry, and you can still just top heavy shinobi mid attack) He has useless gimmick mobility that could just be removed. Double dash is a gimmick, super sprint is a gimmick,quad dash might be an exploit and also drains your whole stam bar to nearly zero before getting an attack out, trying to use the kick as reactionary on dodge will see you eating the next heavy as you kick lands and you'll just trade yourself to death (if you land it), backflip/ front flips have no i-frames and all enemy attacks just heatseek to you while doing this. If shinobi ever wins a tourney in his current state, I'll eat my hat.