PDA

View Full Version : A new WWII movie that might be good!



Huxley_S
07-10-2004, 08:29 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/3879343.stm

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_huxli.jpg (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap)

FB Music and Campaigns @
http://www.onemorewild.org/huxley

Huxley_S
07-10-2004, 08:29 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/3879343.stm

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_huxli.jpg (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap)

FB Music and Campaigns @
http://www.onemorewild.org/huxley

Dammerung
07-10-2004, 08:32 PM
This could be the PTO "Band of Brothers"...
Or it could be another Pearl Harbor. Lets home it's the former, and a miniseries.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Timex62
07-10-2004, 08:34 PM
I hope this turns out well also but to look to Hollywood for anything but entertainment may be a bit much.

Close to the Edge

owlwatcher
07-10-2004, 08:37 PM
Could be a good one.
Wonder how much gore.
It made D-Days landing look like a walk on the beach.
Hope its more history then a movie.

Fliegeroffizier
07-10-2004, 09:06 PM
Spielberg and Eastwood are, in my opinion, two of ther Very greatest Directors(and producers) of Movies... Eastwood is also a great actor. And, as far as can be told by the movies they have produced, directed, and/or starred in, they both seek accuracy and realism in their films.

By the way, the Book "Flags of Our Fathers" is Also outstanding! Non-fiction truth and history!

S!
Click on this small flag raising to get full size, 4Mb, version with soundtrack.
http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/IwoJimatiny2.gif (http://pauke.ee.ethz.ch:8732/oberstguncam/Movies/SandsOne.WMV)

[This message was edited by Fliegeroffizier on Sun July 11 2004 at 07:45 PM.]

heywooood
07-10-2004, 10:48 PM
"I know what your thinkin'...did he fire six shots, or only five...and even though the 44 magnum is the most powerful handgun in the world and can blow your head clean off at this distance, you gotta ask yourself one question...do I feel lucky?...well do ya...punk!" ~ Dirty Harry Callahan



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

crazyivan1970
07-10-2004, 10:51 PM
Those two can deffinitely make movies, i think it will be really good.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Waldo.Pepper
07-10-2004, 11:15 PM
Quoting the website

"The battle for the island of Iwo Jima, in early 1945, was a turning point in the fight for control of the Pacific."

Turning point? I don't understand. How can anyone think this. It was in 1945. Midway... turning point. Port Moresby turning point. Not Iwo.

Dolemite-
07-10-2004, 11:17 PM
Speilberg and Eastwood? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I have a feeling that this movie will be one of the Greatest War Movies ever MADE!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

___________________________________________
Flying on HL as {Dolemite}
http://www.talonse.com/supergreg.swf <----- ya wont regret it

Freycinet
07-11-2004, 04:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Quoting the website

"The battle for the island of Iwo Jima, in early 1945, was a turning point in the fight for control of the Pacific."

Turning point? I don't understand. How can anyone think this. It was in 1945. Midway... turning point. Port Moresby turning point. Not Iwo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, well spotted. If they write drivel like that, then it certainly lowers my expectations...

RedDeth
07-11-2004, 04:23 AM
THATS gonna be one heck of a movie. after saving private ryan and the mini series band of brothers the bar has been raised. and those two men wont fall short of it . or they wouldnt even bother making it. theyre both rich beyond belief. theyre making this movie for similar reasons as saving private ryan.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg

johnbn
07-11-2004, 06:54 AM
A slight change of direction from "The Bridges of Madison County."

Wonder if it will be as good???????

Mackane1
07-11-2004, 07:44 AM
...just finished James Bradley's book THE FLYBOYS. It was impossible to put down.(Airwar in the Pacific). ...Absolutely a "must read" for any warbird enthusiast. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/MACKANE.jpg

LeadSpitter_
07-11-2004, 07:46 AM
do you feel lucky japanese punk?

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

VW-IceFire
07-11-2004, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Quoting the website

"The battle for the island of Iwo Jima, in early 1945, was a turning point in the fight for control of the Pacific."

Turning point? I don't understand. How can anyone think this. It was in 1945. Midway... turning point. Port Moresby turning point. Not Iwo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well it wasn't really a turning point but it was the point where the Allies knew that they would be going after Japan very shortly thereafter.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

D_Mansen
07-11-2004, 09:34 AM
I'd be more interested in seeing a documentary account of soldiers' experiences, British, American, and other allies alike, in Iraq today.

RedDeth
07-11-2004, 12:35 PM
MANSON read Citizen Soldier by tom brokaw i think it is. thats what your looking for. great book and its per your request

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg

Mispunt
07-11-2004, 04:59 PM
I just wonder how long it's goint to take for someone to complain again the US didn't win the war single handedly

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Mispunt-MisSig.jpg

moeburn
07-11-2004, 05:34 PM
pfft, everyone knows The Longest Day was single-handedly the best ww2 movie ever http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bula
07-11-2004, 08:02 PM
Wish someone could convince the producers in Hollywood, who have the money, to partner with some of the better East European directors to do a miniseries about the Eastern Front. There is at least one good film out there--a German production titled "Stalingrad"--but no decent miniseries a la "Band of Brothers," or at least none that I've heard of.

Korolov
07-11-2004, 08:41 PM
There are plenty of good movies about the east front - just that they all in russian. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

Fliegeroffizier
07-11-2004, 08:49 PM
Click on the Iwo Jima flag-raising below for the 4Mb version,with sound:
S!

http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/IwoJimatiny2.gif (http://pauke.ee.ethz.ch:8732/oberstguncam/Movies/SandsOne.WMV)

owlwatcher
07-11-2004, 08:53 PM
What russian movies are worth seeing?

moeburn
07-11-2004, 08:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bula:
Wish someone could convince the producers in Hollywood, who have the money, to partner with some of the better East European directors to do a miniseries about the Eastern Front. There is at least one good film out there--a German production titled "Stalingrad"--but no decent miniseries a la "Band of Brothers," or at least none that I've heard of.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I heard that movie was good, like War of the Rats on film. Unfortunately, it has such a generic title that i can't find any info about it on the web or at my library. Could you be more specific (director, dates)?

Fliegeroffizier
07-11-2004, 09:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

I heard that movie was good, like War of the Rats on film. Unfortunately, it has such a generic title that i can't find any info about it on the web or at my library. Could you be more specific (director, dates)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It IS Very confusing!!! Here's the story:

Read the fiction novel called "War of the Rats", which IS BASED on Fact, concerning snipers at Stalingrad.

Read non-fiction historical work called "Enemy at the Gates", which is simply a great 1000 page HISTORY of the Battle of Stalingrad, in which there are a mere TWO pages referring to the FACT of the Russian and German snipers who operated in Stalingrad battle..

THEN, AFTERWARDS, watch the Movie, "Enemy at the Gates"...the Movie attempts to tell a version of the Novel "war of the Rats" using teh Title of the Non-Fiction History("Enemy at the Gates") as its title, confusing even further Fact with Fiction!! [Does Hollywood do this from time to time???]

In any event, it IS a very good movie about Armies in Stalingrad, specifically Snipers...Just be aware that Hollywood changes the Real-life ending to a fictional, movie ending....

heywooood
07-11-2004, 09:17 PM
How about the title "A Bridge at Madison County Too Far"...or

"Close Encounters of the Enforcer Kind"

All your island bases are belong to us...punk.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

moeburn
07-11-2004, 09:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fliegeroffizier:

It IS Very confusing!!! Here's the story:

Read the fiction novel called "War of the Rats", which IS BASED on Fact, concerning snipers at Stalingrad.

Read non-fiction historical work called "Enemy at the Gates", which is simply a great 1000 page HISTORY of the Battle of Stalingrad, in which there are a mere TWO pages referring to the FACT of the Russian and German snipers who operated in Stalingrad battle..

THEN, AFTERWARDS, watch the Movie, "Enemy at the Gates"...the Movie attempts to tell a version of the Novel "war of the Rats" using teh Title of the Non-Fiction History("Enemy at the Gates") as its title, confusing even further Fact with Fiction!! [Does Hollywood do this from time to time???]

In any event, it IS a very good movie about Armies in Stalingrad, specifically Snipers...Just be aware that Hollywood changes the Real-life ending to a fictional, movie ending....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've already done all of those m8, well I actually didn't know Enemy At The Gates was a novel. But yes, I mailed the author of War Of the Rats, David L Robbins, and asked him if Zaitsev's "bear" friend (i forget the name) was ever killed, and if there really was a little boy who was hung.
He said his novel was based on facts, and he had nothing to do with the creation of EnemyAtTheGates, and that the two facts i mentioned were not true.

I would love to see a movie about the same subject as War of the Rats, it would be my favorite novel if they hadn't taken an entire chapter out of it (See his website). I guess i'll have to stick with Beardless Warriors for now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Waldo.Pepper
07-11-2004, 10:03 PM
Sorry if this hijacks the topic a little. BUt Enemy at the Gates (William Graig) is NOT a novel It is based on interviews of real participants of the battle. It is (in my opinion) poorly researched. But considering that it was written inthe 70's with that kind of access to Soviet sources. .. well.

The story of Major Koenig (the German sniper) is however likely a fabrication of Soviet propaganda. The producers of the movie could find NO EVIDENCE of his existance in German records.

The ending of the movie was changed. Zaitsev and his girl never met and never married. She believed that Vasili had been killed till she was interviewed by Craig for the book in the 70's.

Fehler
07-12-2004, 02:34 AM
Iwo Jima: Turning point? No.

But it was a very important strategic objective. It was also heavily defended and the cost in lives, both American and Japanese was tremendous.

Without Iwo Jima, B-29 bombers would have had to fly with less ordinance and more fuel to make round trips against Japan. Damaged aircraft would have had no place to divert to safety. And simply put, Iwo Jima was an island in the natural progression of island hopping the U.S. and other allies HAD to capture in their advance upon Japan.

I truly think Midway was the true "Turning point" in the Pacific for several reasons. The most important reason, of course, was because it sort of evened out the carrier superiority the Japanese had at the time. Although one could argue that the United States' war industry would have eventually done the same thing. With the capture of Midway, however, the Japanese would have had the ability to strike the Hawaiian islands from a land based position, so that's why I consider Midway a much more important battle in the Pacific.

Either or, I would really like to see this movie. Speilberg and Eastwood will make a nice film, I am sure. I will pay the money to see this in the theater.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Waldo.Pepper
07-12-2004, 05:16 AM
Both Japan and the US valued the sulfurous island Iwo Jima.

Iwo Jima was Japanese home soil, part of Japan, only 650 miles from Tokyo. It was administered by the Tokyo metropolitan government. No foreign army in Japan's 5000 year history had trod on Japanese soil.

To the US, Iwo Jima's importance lay in its location, midway between Japan and American bomber bases in the Marianas.

Since the summer of 1944, the Japanese home islands had been reeling from strikes by the new, long range B-29's. The US, however, had no protective fighters with enough range to escort the big superfortresses. many bombers fell prey to Japanese fighter-interceptor attacks. Iwo, with its three airfields, was ideally located as a fighter-escort station. It was also an ideal sanctuary for crippled bombers returning from Japan.

I don't think that the US intended to base B29's on Iwo. They just wanted it to us for fighters and as an emergency strip for crippled B-29's.

If I'm wrong I apologize. Maybe droopsnoot can help us out.

horseback
07-12-2004, 09:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freycinet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Quoting the website

"The battle for the island of Iwo Jima, in early 1945, was a turning point in the fight for control of the Pacific."

Turning point? I don't understand. How can anyone think this. It was in 1945. Midway... turning point. Port Moresby turning point. Not Iwo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, well spotted. If they write drivel like that, then it certainly lowers my expectations...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a reporter turning out the drivel, guys, and a British one (BBC) at that. Journalists tend to be hazy about history (and facts in general, in my experience), and a good leading sentence for a paragraph is more important than strict accuracy for a puff piece about a movie placed in the Pacific part of WWII, where Aussies, Kiwis and a few Yanks hogged all the glory.

I can't imagine Spielberg or Eastwood fooling themselves about the significance of Iwo...

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

D_Mansen
07-17-2004, 03:30 AM
The Longest Day? How about the German film "Stalingrad"? Or how about Sam Peckinpah's "Cross of Iron"? Or, if we can consider the documentary format, how about the Lawrence Olivier narrated classic series, "World At War"? Or how about the Russian filmaker Andrei Tarkovsky's drama about the contribution of children to the Russian war effort, "Ivan's Childhood" where you see a child scout/spy barking orders to men 3 or 4 times his age? Moeburn, you have no idea how much good material is out there.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-17-2004, 04:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bula:
Wish someone could convince the producers in Hollywood, who have the money, to partner with some of the better East European directors to do a miniseries about the Eastern Front. There is at least one good film out there--a German production titled "Stalingrad"--but no decent miniseries a la "Band of Brothers," or at least none that I've heard of.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would Hollywood be interested in the Eastern front? I suppose they could always re-write history, though, as per usual like with Objective: Burma
(http://www.geocities.com/warmoviedatabase/mobburma.htm)

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
"The chief rap against Objective, Burma! (of concern mainly to British observers) is that it suggests that only U.S. forces contested the Japanese in the jungles of Burma. (Okay, so it's not the most accurate history lesson.) But that's small beer in view of the movie's bone-chilling portrayal of pain, sacrifice, and endurance."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Small beer" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif
I wonder if, when China are the next cyclical superpower, they will make films about how they won &lt;insert battle of choice&gt;?

I wonder how stereotypical this latest venture will be. Hopefully, not too much so but we all know different.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

Udidtoo
07-17-2004, 04:34 AM
Now come on Norris, don't be bashful. Tell us how much you really admire the good old U.S. and anything with the words America or American in it.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-22-2004, 11:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Udidtoo:
Now come on Norris, don't be bashful. Tell us how much you really admire the good old U.S. and anything with the words America or American in it.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooh..forgot about this thread.

I'm anti-American now? LOL. No, m8, just anti-Hollywood-in-retelling-history-mode and anti-ridiculous comments.

My point was that it's fundamentally wrong to portray facts as something other than they are - especially to impressionable people (i.e. like people at the end of the war) - unless it is stated as such. Of course, this doesn't apply to people with the intelligence to understand that it's purely an adaptation but you can't always rely on that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

However, to pass something off as 'small beer' is quite a disgusting comment to make especially if veterans of Burma were to read it. In fact, when this film was shown in Burma, to the British, they smashed up the cinema half way through the film..were sent back to camp..then returned in the early hours to torch the place. They hit back at the wrong thing, of course, but you can understand the sentiment.

And, I'd say the exact same if someone portrayed that the US had not landed on Omaha beach but, rather, it was the (for example) Argentinians and then said that it was 'no real biggie' that it was shown this way. Wouldn't you?

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

Worf101
07-22-2004, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D_Mansen:
The Longest Day? How about the German film "Stalingrad"? Or how about Sam Peckinpah's "Cross of Iron"? Or, if we can consider the documentary format, how about the Lawrence Olivier narrated classic series, "World At War"? Or how about the Russian filmaker Andrei Tarkovsky's drama about the contribution of children to the Russian war effort, "Ivan's Childhood" where you see a child scout/spy barking orders to men 3 or 4 times his age? Moeburn, you have no idea how much good material is out there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cross of Iron, been looking for that one for 2 decades almost. Sigh....

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything!"

AztekWrath
07-22-2004, 08:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Udidtoo:
Now come on Norris, don't be bashful. Tell us how much you really admire the good old U.S. and anything with the words America or American in it.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooh..forgot about this thread.

I'm anti-American now? LOL. No, m8, just anti-Hollywood-in-retelling-history-mode and anti-ridiculous comments.

My point was that it's fundamentally wrong to portray facts as something other than they are - especially to impressionable people (i.e. like people at the end of the war) - unless it is stated as such. Of course, this doesn't apply to people with the intelligence to understand that it's purely an adaptation but you can't always rely on that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

However, to pass something off as 'small beer' is quite a disgusting comment to make especially if veterans of Burma were to read it. In fact, when this film was shown in Burma, to the British, they smashed up the cinema half way through the film..were sent back to camp..then returned in the early hours to torch the place. They hit back at the wrong thing, of course, but you can understand the sentiment.

And, I'd say the exact same if someone portrayed that the US had not landed on Omaha beach but, rather, it was the (for example) Argentinians and then said that it was 'no real biggie' that it was shown this way. Wouldn't you?

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
http://www.chavscum.co.uk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well said, m8...

M.R.Maiornikov
07-22-2004, 09:15 PM
For a good eastern front movie watch the new russian blockbuster "shtrafbat".It's a good movie judging from camercials here in montreal http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif(i have russian channels)

------------------------------------------------------------
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

xTHRUDx
07-22-2004, 11:51 PM
here is another film to put on the radar

http://imdb.com/title/tt0416277/

LEXX_Luthor
07-23-2004, 12:55 AM
http://www.lexxfans.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/15.gif Night Witches about female U2 pilots with Malcolm McDowell (cleric "Yottskry" in season 1 LEXX movie Gigashadow) was supposed to happen recently, but never materialized.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>A movie concerning their incredible story will be made very soon with Sophie Marceau and Malcom Mac Dowell as main characters. It will be on the screens at the end of 2002 - begining of 2003 !

~ http://www.flyandrive.com/nightwitches2.htm
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>MM:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Night Witches "unconfirmed"
~ http://www.malcolmmcdowell.org/Films/index.php
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.lexxfans.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/15.gif


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif