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View Full Version : Raider's Nerf NEEDED



OMGItsChatto
07-28-2017, 07:32 PM
This dude throws you on his shoulder, drains your stamina, drops you to the floor, and uses his fire move and you're dead, Like boi kys

Antonioj26
07-28-2017, 08:20 PM
That's really not the best part about him, most of his stamina is gone too if he does that and it only yields 28 damage. That's pretty low confirmed gb damaged with only centurion, conq, and valk being the only ones lower.

Lyskir
07-28-2017, 08:29 PM
its looks like a rage thread to me

lost to a raider---> goes to for honor forum---> omg raider is op


he is also between top and mid tier like warden (when u abuse his stampede, wihtout is hes just mid tier) in my opinion nothing more and nothing less, i like his spot right now

JAYROD1174
08-01-2017, 06:41 PM
The Raider character is the most under privileged character in the game! He has the most limited move set, he's extremely slow, and his moves are predictable. I have a Rep 30 Raider and I still struggle fighting noob opponents who utilize the more Over Powered characters like the Centurion or Orochi. Raider also has the crappiest looking gear. I realize that the Vikings weren't known for their Blacksmithing skills but if they were the great raiders and pillagers of that Era then wouldn't they at least have some good armor and gear taken from others? Seriously Ubisoft stop dumping on the Raider class please! Even the Warden and Kensei as Vanguards have a pretty decent and versatile move set. So lets stop treating the Raiders class like lower class Illegal Immigrants and put your heads together and come up with just one or two moves for the Raider that can help him hold his own versus the more powerful characters and give the poor guy some cool looking gear that's not missing a button or held together by rope.

Thanks.

Alustar.
08-01-2017, 06:55 PM
I ran a match against a premade group of 4 raiders and we won. Where is your god now?

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 07:32 PM
The Raider character is the most under privileged character in the game! He has the most limited move set, he's extremely slow, and his moves are predictable. I have a Rep 30 Raider and I still struggle fighting noob opponents who utilize the more Over Powered characters like the Centurion or Orochi. Raider also has the crappiest looking gear. I realize that the Vikings weren't known for their Blacksmithing skills but if they were the great raiders and pillagers of that Era then wouldn't they at least have some good armor and gear taken from others? Seriously Ubisoft stop dumping on the Raider class please! Even the Warden and Kensei as Vanguards have a pretty decent and versatile move set. So lets stop treating the Raiders class like lower class Illegal Immigrants and put your heads together and come up with just one or two moves for the Raider that can help him hold his own versus the more powerful characters and give the poor guy some cool looking gear that's not missing a button or held together by rope.

Thanks.

yeah raider cancels into stunning tap isnt working so good against decent players, its getting parrierd most of the time so what does he has besides that?....mmhhh norhing really

slow lights, slow heavys, slow zone...he is feinting a lot? just throw lights

the only thing he shines is light parry punishment and with the ptr changes completly useless

if the ptr changes will keep this way there are...then rip raider and some other heroes ...i fee sick when i think about his mixups that cost a big chunk of stamina

and dont come with that stampede ****.....true raider mains dont abuse that ****, maybe we have to with those ptr changes^^

and yeah i dont like that all vikings only wear leather armor.....pls give them at least mail armor ffs

Tydeelee
08-01-2017, 07:48 PM
Raider is Fast and definatly was Overbuffed
He needs a Nerf!

Antonioj26
08-01-2017, 08:17 PM
Raider is Fast and definatly was Overbuffed
He needs a Nerf!

Fast in what way? His lights are tied for the slowest with shugo and conq and his heavies are the second slowest behind shugo.

Netcode_err_404
08-01-2017, 08:21 PM
yeah raider cancels into stunning tap isnt working so good against decent players, its getting parrierd most of the time so what does he has besides that?....mmhhh norhing really

slow lights, slow heavys, slow zone...he is feinting a lot? just throw lights

the only thing he shines is light parry punishment and with the ptr changes completly useless

if the ptr changes will keep this way there are...then rip raider and some other heroes ...i fee sick when i think about his mixups that cost a big chunk of stamina

and dont come with that stampede ****.....true raider mains dont abuse that ****, maybe we have to with those ptr changes^^

and yeah i dont like that all vikings only wear leather armor.....pls give them at least mail armor ffs

https://youtu.be/ZDl6T9MxZFY?t=13962

Tydeelee
08-01-2017, 08:23 PM
He Was OverBuffed .

Antonioj26
08-01-2017, 08:49 PM
He Was OverBuffed .

Not really aside from the recent stampede buff which needs to go and pretty much everyone agrees on that.

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 09:28 PM
https://youtu.be/ZDl6T9MxZFY?t=13962


in every post i said that his stampede abuse is stupid, even when it was on ptr i made a thread that they should increase the startup animation speed to 600 ms not 500 ms

even in this post i said BESIDES his stampede , Please read and then write

fTy7ZBO2
08-01-2017, 09:31 PM
yes he needs a nerf,,,,,in revenge he can 1 shot a shinobi....

Antonioj26
08-01-2017, 09:33 PM
yes he needs a nerf,,,,,in revenge he can 1 shot a shinobi....

No he can't

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 09:42 PM
yes he needs a nerf,,,,,in revenge he can 1 shot a shinobi....

shugo can, does shugo need a nerf now?

wow its insane that the hero with the lowest healthpool gets almost/oneshotten by the slowerst and strongest attacks ingame
do u know why he has the best dodge ingame? c'om u know that buddy

Antonioj26
08-01-2017, 09:46 PM
shugo can, does shugo need a nerf now?

There are 3 other characters that do as much or more damage than raiders highest damage attack(zone follow up).

Raider is 50
Shugo does 60 heavy unblock
Berserker does 55 over head heavy
Shinobi does 50 with sickle and 50 with deflect.

Should all these characters be nerfed?

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 09:55 PM
There are 3 other characters that do as much or more damage than raiders highest damage attack(zone follow up).

Raider is 50
Shugo does 60 heavy unblock
Berserker does 55 over head heavy
Shinobi does 50 with sickle and 50 with deflect.

Should all these characters be nerfed?

definitely with that "logic" ;)

the best thing is "he can 1 shot in REVENGE"


and yes i think his stampede should be nerfed at least to 600ms but thats the only thing that should be nerfed

Knight_Raime
08-01-2017, 10:06 PM
Not really. His stunning tap mix up is bunk against decent players. You rest your guard in top when you fight him. then react to anything else he does. Stunning tap becomes useless.
The running and draining your stamina isn't hugely helpful unless it's going to get the person OOS. and on live OOS isn't punishing enough for that to really matter.
His unblockable is too slow to be used as a mix up. it's parried nearly constantly. and GB's from neutral are poor mix up potential since the person is just standing and waiting for you to react.
GB's will only ever work in mix ups if it's soft feinted into.

So you can;t let zones fly. You can't do stunning tap. and you can't GB mix up. What does the raider really have? A specific parry punish which I believe is gone in ptr. and being able to dash GB. which while good is situational at best.

Which means top tier raider play is really revolved around randomly thrown lights and heavies and his parry punish.

Raider doesn't need a nerf. you need to get better.

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 10:09 PM
Not really. His stunning tap mix up is bunk against decent players. You rest your guard in top when you fight him. then react to anything else he does. Stunning tap becomes useless.
The running and draining your stamina isn't hugely helpful unless it's going to get the person OOS. and on live OOS isn't punishing enough for that to really matter.
His unblockable is too slow to be used as a mix up. it's parried nearly constantly. and GB's from neutral are poor mix up potential since the person is just standing and waiting for you to react.
GB's will only ever work in mix ups if it's soft feinted into.

So you can;t let zones fly. You can't do stunning tap. and you can't GB mix up. What does the raider really have? A specific parry punish which I believe is gone in ptr. and being able to dash GB. which while good is situational at best.

Which means top tier raider play is really revolved around randomly thrown lights and heavies and his parry punish.

Raider doesn't need a nerf. you need to get better.

amen

watsonclan335u
08-01-2017, 10:21 PM
Not really. His stunning tap mix up is bunk against decent players. You rest your guard in top when you fight him. then react to anything else he does. Stunning tap becomes useless.
The running and draining your stamina isn't hugely helpful unless it's going to get the person OOS. and on live OOS isn't punishing enough for that to really matter.
His unblockable is too slow to be used as a mix up. it's parried nearly constantly. and GB's from neutral are poor mix up potential since the person is just standing and waiting for you to react.
GB's will only ever work in mix ups if it's soft feinted into.

So you can;t let zones fly. You can't do stunning tap. and you can't GB mix up. What does the raider really have? A specific parry punish which I believe is gone in ptr. and being able to dash GB. which while good is situational at best.

Which means top tier raider play is really revolved around randomly thrown lights and heavies and his parry punish.

Raider doesn't need a nerf. you need to get better.

Rep30 raider here as well and I approve this message lol.

Tydeelee
08-01-2017, 10:46 PM
Sure what else should Raider Mains say other than He s not Op
He dont need a nerf
Hes slow
Hes mix up is not working
Hes ZAttack Feint Abuse is useless
Hilarious!

Antonioj26
08-01-2017, 10:49 PM
Sure what else should Raider Mains say other than He s not Op
He dont need a nerf
Hes slow
Hes mix up is not working
Hes ZAttack Feint Abuse is useless
Hilarious!

Yeah except raime is a cent main and I use everyone minus nobu cent and the original assassins. He is slow, I already told you why so unless you think conqueror and shugo are fast than you can't say raider is fast.

Netcode_err_404
08-01-2017, 11:01 PM
in every post i said that his stampede abuse is stupid, even when it was on ptr i made a thread that they should increase the startup animation speed to 600 ms not 500 ms

even in this post i said BESIDES his stampede , Please read and then write

Theres no "besides this, or that"

Stampede is part of his kit now, and as you can see its abused in tourneys, to get free kills.


So yes HE needs a nerf. As well as every other unlock unblockable.


Except warlords, apparentluy thay need to be the best class in the game for some reasons.

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 11:04 PM
Theres no "besides this, or that"

Stampede is part of his kit now, and as you can see its abused in tourneys, to get free kills.


So yes HE needs a nerf. As well as every other unlock unblockable.


Except warlords, apparentluy thay need to be the best class in the game for some reasons.

of course he needs a STAMPEDE nerf i said that many times before, but those new palyers here want other stuff on him to be nerfed and thats just ridiculous

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 11:06 PM
Sure what else should Raider Mains say other than He s not Op
He dont need a nerf
Hes slow
Hes mix up is not working
Hes ZAttack Feint Abuse is useless
Hilarious!

what is ur main? i really want to know that :)

Netcode_err_404
08-01-2017, 11:09 PM
of course he needs a STAMPEDE nerf i said that many times before, but those new palyers here want other stuff on him to be nerfed and thats just ridiculous


The only other stuff that needs to be nerfed is his damage stacking with buffs. With damage buffs he does insane/illegal damage.


And the ZA spam will be cancer if they do not change something in the PTR as well as his ability to doge and cgb at the same time. Making him almost not punishable

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 11:19 PM
The only other stuff that needs to be nerfed is his damage stacking with buffs. With damage buffs he does insane/illegal damage.


And the ZA spam will be cancer if they do not change something in the PTR as well as his ability to doge and cgb at the same time. Making him almost not punishable

ZA spam? wtf.... if he does i 2 times he will be amost oos ( its almost a death sentence on ptr)and the dmg from it is a poor reward for that much stamina ...spam lol, ur maining lb huh? so i dont like his top light SPAM or his UB SPAM or his block shove SPAM, i can play that game too
Dodge cgb is the only thing that keeps him away from trash tier


btw u can gb him mid dodge, hes immun only in the first frames of the dodge and at the end...so not unpunishable


it seems that u just hate raider for some reason

Netcode_err_404
08-01-2017, 11:24 PM
ZA spam? wtf.... if he does i 2 times he will be amost oos ( its almost a death sentence on ptr)and the dmg from it is a poor reward for that much stamina ...spam lol, ur maining lb huh? so i dont like his top light SPAM or his UB SPAM or his block shove SPAM, i can play that game too
Dodge cgb is the only thing that keeps him away from trash tier


btw u can gb him mid dodge, hes immun only in the first time of the dodge and at the end...so not unpunishable


it seems that u just hate raider for some reason




Almost oos is not OOS, the oos punish is alone better than most of the other classes entire kit.


Yes i play LB and theres no UB spam, the block shove need to be removed as i suggested in my thread http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671155-The-moment-is-now-Lawbringer-buffs-nerfs-improvements

months ago,

And beeing almost not punishable while doing dodge is a huge advantage.


I do not hate raiders, but I hate raiders mains who still think raiders are trash tier. Because you guys have literally no idea what you are talking about. Raider thanks to his lame charge is almost top tier now.

Knight_Raime
08-01-2017, 11:28 PM
Sure what else should Raider Mains say other than He s not Op
He dont need a nerf
Hes slow
Hes mix up is not working
Hes ZAttack Feint Abuse is useless
Hilarious!

I can't speak for others. But i'm a cent main. Raider is my least most used person right next to warlord. whom i've got maybe 10 minutes of play on.
I just play a lot. and understand the game at a higher level than apperently you do.

Knight_Raime
08-01-2017, 11:30 PM
Almost oos is not OOS, the oos punish is alone better than most of the other classes entire kit.


Yes i play LB and theres no UB spam, the block shove need to be removed as i suggested in my thread http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671155-The-moment-is-now-Lawbringer-buffs-nerfs-improvements

months ago,

And beeing almost not punishable while doing dodge is a huge advantage.


I do not hate raiders, but I hate raiders mains who still think raiders are trash tier. Because you guys have literally no idea what you are talking about. Raider thanks to his lame charge is almost top tier now.

Sorry but that's bunk logic. One good thing does not make an entire kit top tier. I'm not saying he's trash. but he's not even close to top. he's probably mid b tier.
That's like calling goki back when you could charge GB or charge into heavy top tier because of one cheesy thing.

That's not how tier balancing works kiddo.

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 11:33 PM
Almost oos is not OOS, the oos punish is alone better than most of the other classes entire kit.


Yes i play LB and theres no UB spam, the block shove need to be removed as i suggested in my thread http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671155-The-moment-is-now-Lawbringer-buffs-nerfs-improvements

months ago,

And beeing almost not punishable while doing dodge is a huge advantage.


I do not hate raiders, but I hate raiders mains who still think raiders are trash tier. Because you guys have literally no idea what you are talking about. Raider thanks to his lame charge is almost top tier now.

so its called spam when u can do some 2 times and then u have to wait? LB can do his ub more than 2 times behind each other and thats not spam? that logic
when u dont like a move from other heroes, that does not mean its op
i dont like LBs blockshove but i dont say its op, its anyoing but not op

yeah he is between top and midtier (with stampede abuse) that why it needs a nerf but when u have a problem with his zone...i really dont know what to say about that, do u have also a problem with shugos charged heavy or cent charged heavy? its so freakin slow u can dodge his zone + cancel into stunning tap by dodging in the direction of the zone

u really should practice with raider to learn his moveset, then u will see its nothing op about him BESIDE that dumb charge

Netcode_err_404
08-01-2017, 11:38 PM
so its called spam when u can do some 2 times and then u have to wait? LB can do his ub more than 2 times behind each other and thats not spam? that logic

yeah he is between top and midtier (with stampede abuse) that why it needs a nerf but when u have a problem with his zone...i really dont know what to say about that, do u have also a problem with shugos charged heavy or cent charged heavy? its so freakin slow u can dodge his zone + cancel into stunning tap by dodging in the direction of the zone

u really should practice with raider to learn his moveset, then u will see its nothing op about him BESIDE that dumb charge

Except LB unblockable heavy is 1100 ms and requires a full combo of 2 hits.



To answer your other question, yes, i have indeed a problem with cents, like more or less the whole game's community.


Lets do a quick brief.


1) Best damage in the game

2) Extreme valid mix ups

3) Unblockable as zone attack that allows you mix ups.

4) one of the best OOS punishment in the game.

5) Side dodge + cgb during a dodge.




If all of the above is low tier. Well, you should play kensei. Or nobushi.

Knight_Raime
08-01-2017, 11:40 PM
so its called spam when u can do some 2 times and then u have to wait? LB can do his ub more than 2 times behind each other and thats not spam? that logic
when u dont like a move from other heroes, that does not mean its op
i dont like LBs blockshove but i dont say its op, its anyoing but not op

yeah he is between top and midtier (with stampede abuse) that why it needs a nerf but when u have a problem with his zone...i really dont know what to say about that, do u have also a problem with shugos charged heavy or cent charged heavy? its so freakin slow u can dodge his zone + cancel into stunning tap by dodging in the direction of the zone

u really should practice with raider to learn his moveset, then u will see its nothing op about him BESIDE that dumb charge

I usually don't call people out. So i'll do my best here. But there is a reason I have him (among a select other few) muted. They don't really offer any counter points. they are pretty stubborn. and a lot of their stuff borders on aggressive trolling/flaming. I only quoted them in this thread because I saw the discussion between you two. Normally I just ignore and move on.

Of all few people I have muted this one's probably the least bad one. Just because at least when i first came around the user seemed to try and give decent debates. But ultimately they ended up making posts like the ones you're seeing now.

I'll just say try not to take everything the person says super seriously. Where ever they are right now they don't seem to see past their issues with the game. So a lot of their arguments basically just devolve into the "no your wrong" kind of responses.

Netcode_err_404
08-01-2017, 11:42 PM
I usually don't call people out. So i'll do my best here. But there is a reason I have him (among a select other few) muted. They don't really offer any counter points. they are pretty stubborn. and a lot of their stuff borders on aggressive trolling/flaming. I only quoted them in this thread because I saw the discussion between you two. Normally I just ignore and move on.

Of all few people I have muted this one's probably the least bad one. Just because at least when i first came around the user seemed to try and give decent debates. But ultimately they ended up making posts like the ones you're seeing now.

I'll just say try not to take everything the person says super seriously. Where ever they are right now they don't seem to see past their issues with the game. So a lot of their arguments basically just devolve into the "no your wrong" kind of responses.

Except there is a video proof, but ok, knight lame.

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 11:42 PM
Except LB unblockable heavy is 1100 ms and requires a full combo of 2 hits.



To answer your other question, yes, i have indeed a problem with cents, like more or less the whole game's community.


Lets do a quick brief.


1) Best damage in the game

2) Extreme valid mix ups

3) Unblockable as zone attack that allows you mix ups.

4) one of the best OOS punishment in the game.

5) Side dodge + cgb during a dodge.




If all of the above is low tier. Well, you should play kensei. Or nobushi.

ok lets go:

LB

1) one of the highest healthpool
2) best light parry punish ingame
3) super fast top light
4) blockshove
5)spamable shove

and now? lB is also midtier


best dmg is wrong btw, shugo has better dmg

Netcode_err_404
08-01-2017, 11:44 PM
ok lets go:

LB

1) one of the highest healthpool
2) best light parry punish ingame
3) super fast top light
4) blockshove
5)spamable shove

and now? lB is also midtier



1) ok
2) LOL
3) LOL
4)ok
5) LOL

Yes is mid tier because up to 5 points only 2 are semi valid.

Because the health pool is by far justified buy the fact that he is the second slower character in the game.

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 11:52 PM
I usually don't call people out. So i'll do my best here. But there is a reason I have him (among a select other few) muted. They don't really offer any counter points. they are pretty stubborn. and a lot of their stuff borders on aggressive trolling/flaming. I only quoted them in this thread because I saw the discussion between you two. Normally I just ignore and move on.

Of all few people I have muted this one's probably the least bad one. Just because at least when i first came around the user seemed to try and give decent debates. But ultimately they ended up making posts like the ones you're seeing now.

I'll just say try not to take everything the person says super seriously. Where ever they are right now they don't seem to see past their issues with the game. So a lot of their arguments basically just devolve into the "no your wrong" kind of responses.

mmhhh maybe i should do that too, its really exhausting to debate with him

the only thing that needs a nerf is raider stampede, even we raider mains say that

but he wants his entire kit nerfed when its not even a big deal,cause its exstremly predictable, i cant get behind that logic

Netcode_err_404
08-01-2017, 11:53 PM
mmhhh maybe i should do that too, its really exhausting to debate with him

the only thing that needs a nerf is raider stampede, even we raider mains say that

but he wants his entire kit nerfed when its not even a big deal,cause its exstremly predictable, i cant get behind that logic



Can you please mark, exactly WHERE i said that i want his entire kit nerfed ?


And then do a screenshot so we ALL can see where and when exactly i said that ?



Your arguments are so poor lol.

Lyskir
08-01-2017, 11:56 PM
Can you please mark, exactly WHERE i said that i want his entire kit nerfed ?


And then do a screenshot so we ALL can see where and when exactly i said that ?



Your arguments are so poor lol.

ok its look like u are a troll then, bb LB main that doesnt know how to parry or dodge a raider zone ;)

watsonclan335u
08-01-2017, 11:58 PM
Almost oos is not OOS, the oos punish is alone better than most of the other classes entire kit.


Yes i play LB and theres no UB spam, the block shove need to be removed as i suggested in my thread http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671155-The-moment-is-now-Lawbringer-buffs-nerfs-improvements

months ago,

And beeing almost not punishable while doing dodge is a huge advantage.


I do not hate raiders, but I hate raiders mains who still think raiders are trash tier. Because you guys have literally no idea what you are talking about. Raider thanks to his lame charge is almost top tier now.


All I can say is: wow you must be a serious trash player if you're being subjected to ZA spam, it's the slowest move of any player and it always comes from the same side, ANY player that cannot parry this move is lacking in any skill. Yes Raider mains are the best to ask for one reason: they actually know the limitations of the character, once you learn some skills you may also be a good one to ask about possible improvements that can be had by LB. Stampede charge is less worthless now than it used to be but that's where it starts and ends, most people(again a skill thing) can easily see it coming and dodge long before charge is activated making it a sort of last resort opener for a turtle style opponent because it eats so much of your own stamina that you need to be all but certain it will pay off or you're eating at least two top heavies. That leaves only Raiders lights(which as mentioned before are the slowest in the game). Most high level (read skill factor) are perfectly capable of parrying those as well, what does that leave us with? I'll tell you, a character with a kit full of moves that are completely unusable, only thing going for us is GB, and once all the changes come in, I doubt raider will even be able to sit down comfortably after any match even against someone with a skill set as limited as even yourself.

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 12:00 AM
ok its look like u are a troll then, bb LB main that doesnt know how to parry or dodge a raider zone ;)

Changing subject I see.

Knight_Raime
08-02-2017, 12:00 AM
mmhhh maybe i should do that too, its really exhausting to debate with him

the only thing that needs a nerf is raider stampede, even we raider mains say that

but he wants his entire kit nerfed when its not even a big deal,cause its exstremly predictable, i cant get behind that logic

he's got a massive issue with unblockables. and you can't argue anything with him about that because he just doesn't listen.
Raiders zone is unblockable. there for in that person's eyes raider is both "amazingly strong" and the move is "spammy and broken."

Lyskir
08-02-2017, 12:03 AM
All I can say is: wow you must be a serious trash player if you're being subjected to ZA spam, it's the slowest move of any player and it always comes from the same side, ANY player that cannot parry this move is lacking in any skill. Yes Raider mains are the best to ask for one reason: they actually know the limitations of the character, once you learn some skills you may also be a good one to ask about possible improvements that can be had by LB. Stampede charge is less worthless now than it used to be but that's where it starts and ends, most people(again a skill thing) can easily see it coming and dodge long before charge is activated making it a sort of last resort opener for a turtle style opponent because it eats so much of your own stamina that you need to be all but certain it will pay off or you're eating at least two top heavies. That leaves only Raiders lights(which as mentioned before are the slowest in the game). Most high level (read skill factor) are perfectly capable of parrying those as well, what does that leave us with? I'll tell you, a character with a kit full of moves that are completely unusable, only thing going for us is GB, and once all the changes come in, I doubt raider will even be able to sit down comfortably after any match even against someone with a skill set as limited as even yourself.

dont waste ur breath on him, its useless

btw u dont have to answer me LB man, i put u on igno

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 12:07 AM
All I can say is: wow you must be a serious trash player if you're being subjected to ZA spam, it's the slowest move of any player and it always comes from the same side, ANY player that cannot parry this move is lacking in any skill. Yes Raider mains are the best to ask for one reason: they actually know the limitations of the character, once you learn some skills you may also be a good one to ask about possible improvements that can be had by LB. Stampede charge is less worthless now than it used to be but that's where it starts and ends, most people(again a skill thing) can easily see it coming and dodge long before charge is activated making it a sort of last resort opener for a turtle style opponent because it eats so much of your own stamina that you need to be all but certain it will pay off or you're eating at least two top heavies. That leaves only Raiders lights(which as mentioned before are the slowest in the game). Most high level (read skill factor) are perfectly capable of parrying those as well, what does that leave us with? I'll tell you, a character with a kit full of moves that are completely unusable, only thing going for us is GB, and once all the changes come in, I doubt raider will even be able to sit down comfortably after any match even against someone with a skill set as limited as even yourself.



And exactly how you come with the idea that I'm subjected to ZA spam ?

His zone attack can be used multiple times, and that alone can put the raider in advantage because he has access at some really good mix ups. Thats alone is more than classes like kensei and nobushi have.

His stampede is broken, as you can see https://youtu.be/ZDl6T9MxZFY?t=13962


"But a good player", no, a good player will eat the charge, because theres no good, its just guess. Like warden SB, guess or roll away and reset.


He was clearly overbuffed, now its used to cheese in tourneys and that is not something you can just ignore. Oh well you can actually ignore it, and pretending is still pre 1.04

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 12:08 AM
dont waste ur breath on him, its useless

Im still waiting a screen where i clearly say that his entire kit is op and needs a huge nerf.

Soul_of_Midgard
08-02-2017, 01:23 AM
Overbuffed my a.s.s. - this stupid community is all about crying and *****ing, for f.u.c.k. sake, stop playing multiplayer if you're such a bad looser and complain your a.s.s off about a videogame.

Alustar.
08-02-2017, 02:18 AM
I'm a ****ty PK and I eat raiders alive in most 1v1 and 4v4. Poor guy is slow and predictable. Bout the only thing that gets me is that quick tip light and a grab I shouldn't have been dodging from. Otherwise unless they are good I just play a spacing game and bait for that side step.
A good raider however is wicked to watch. They feint and grab and knee into the face and when it's all said and done I get to watch them do the dance of their people one my dead body.

Chances are if you got rekt by a raider, either he was really good, or you were really bad. Both are ok, worse things have happened.

watsonclan335u
08-02-2017, 03:13 AM
And exactly how you come with the idea that I'm subjected to ZA spam ?

His zone attack can be used multiple times, and that alone can put the raider in advantage because he has access at some really good mix ups. Thats alone is more than classes like kensei and nobushi have.

His stampede is broken, as you can see https://youtu.be/ZDl6T9MxZFY?t=13962


"But a good player", no, a good player will eat the charge, because theres no good, its just guess. Like warden SB, guess or roll away and reset.


He was clearly overbuffed, now its used to cheese in tourneys and that is not something you can just ignore. Oh well you can actually ignore it, and pretending is still pre 1.04


If a Raider is using multiple ZA's then its an unbelievable opportunity for winning the match with one simple parry.(GG)

Kensei and Nobs have some stupid fast lights comparatively and behold, both also have(stick with me here) UNBLOCKABLES! OMFG who'd have thought? better nerf them too.

Stampede WAS broken, since the short lived stampede OP buff, it was also slowed down, in fact if you are playing on console, you never actually saw the OP version in your home. But cool story I guess, for effect maybe you could get some support for your bogus cause.

Lastly, no need to eat the stampede charge when its already so easy to dodge and punish, most failed charges result in a top heavy at least or worse, a GB into a heavy(leading to the raider most times OOS to boot)....once again GG

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 03:14 AM
I'm a ****ty PK and I eat raiders alive in most 1v1 and 4v4. Poor guy is slow and predictable. Bout the only thing that gets me is that quick tip light and a grab I shouldn't have been dodging from. Otherwise unless they are good I just play a spacing game and bait for that side step.
A good raider however is wicked to watch. They feint and grab and knee into the face and when it's all said and done I get to watch them do the dance of their people one my dead body.

Chances are if you got rekt by a raider, either he was really good, or you were really bad. Both are ok, worse things have happened.

So, are you really saying that you, with the second best class in the game, beat another class ?

You are so pro man.



Stampede charge needs a nerf because its essentially the warlord charge, but better at the moment.


If the ptr changes go live like this. Raider will need to be nrfed again in pretty much most of his current kit.


But again, the cheese charge must go asap.

Thats all.

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 03:19 AM
If a Raider is using multiple ZA's then its an unbelievable opportunity for winning the match with one simple parry.(GG)

Kensei and Nobs have some stupid fast lights comparatively and behold, both also have(stick with me here) UNBLOCKABLES! OMFG who'd have thought? better nerf them too.

Stampede WAS broken, since the short lived stampede OP buff, it was also slowed down, in fact if you are playing on console, you never actually saw the OP version in your home. But cool story I guess, for effect maybe you could get some support for your bogus cause.

Lastly, no need to eat the stampede charge when its already so easy to dodge and punish, most failed charges result in a top heavy at least or worse, a GB into a heavy(leading to the raider most times OOS to boot)....once again GG

Kensei is out of any meta since closed alpha bro.

Nobushi is the second worst class in the game atm. Are you even playing this game ?


Kensei UB requires a full 3 hit combo, the "swift slow strike" or the splicehelm, all easily parriable by pretty much anyonem and guess what ? All are considered lights, so if a raider parry them gg 50 free damage.

Just saying tho.



If you do not know the high potential that comes from ZA and ZA mix ups, you are blind.

Raider is now almost top tier. The fact that most of his "mains" consider him low-mid tier, is their problem.

Stampede is so easy to dodge https://youtu.be/ZDl6T9MxZFY?t=13962

Yeah LOL

Alustar.
08-02-2017, 03:28 AM
So, are you really saying that you, with the second best class in the game, beat another class ?

You are so pro man.



Stampede charge needs a nerf because its essentially the warlord charge, but better at the moment.


If the ptr changes go live like this. Raider will need to be nrfed again in pretty much most of his current kit.


But again, the cheese charge must go asap.

Thats all.

I love it when people use the "yeah but you use the best class" argument.
Let me address the things you either glossed over in my statement or didn't bother mentioning because it didn't support your arguments.

I believe I said I usually beat ones that were less skilled, because obviously from my stand point I view anyone as killing me superior in some fashion.
In fact I said and have said openly that I'm a **** player. So no, I'm not pro, but thanks for the accolade.

Instead of focusing on who's so OP why not learn the whys and counter that. I don't believe any class is really superior to any other. It's all on the person at the controls. If you suck, it won't matter what class you play, the end result is the same.

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 03:31 AM
I love it when people use the "yeah but you use the best class" argument.
Let me address the things you either glossed over in my statement or didn't bother mentioning because it didn't support your arguments.

I believe I said I usually beat ones that were less skilled, because obviously from my stand point I view anyone as killing me superior in some fashion.
In fact I said and have said openly that I'm a **** player. So no, I'm not pro, but thanks for the accolade.

Instead of focusing on who's so OP why not learn the whys and counter that. I don't believe any class is really superior to any other. It's all on the person at the controls. If you suck, it won't matter what class you play, the end result is the same.

I don't know if laughing or actually crying.

But for the sake of the argument i won't do niether of them, instead i will name you 2 classes.


Kensei

Warlord.


Now think again on the part underlined.

Cya

vAshes2Ashesv
08-02-2017, 03:33 AM
Lol at the Raider mains saying he doesn't need a nerf. Personally, I think he was overbuffed to a certain extent, but he still SHOULD be strong, although I am tired of getting 2 hit killed by things I can't avoid by a high rep high-gear-score raider in 4v4 modes. The amount of times I've been knocked over and hit with one unblockable or heavy by raider to knock my health down 3/4s or 2/3s is obnoxious. Same can be said about the Centurion combo, I also hate that (and one of my mains is Centurion) but Raiders damage especially on high leveled players is RIDICULOUS.

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 03:33 AM
I love it when people use the "yeah but you use the best class" argument.
Let me address the things you either glossed over in my statement or didn't bother mentioning because it didn't support your arguments.

I believe I said I usually beat ones that were less skilled, because obviously from my stand point I view anyone as killing me superior in some fashion.
In fact I said and have said openly that I'm a **** player. So no, I'm not pro, but thanks for the accolade.

Instead of focusing on who's so OP why not learn the whys and counter that. I don't believe any class is really superior to any other. It's all on the person at the controls. If you suck, it won't matter what class you play, the end result is the same.

I don't know if laughing or actually crying.

But for the sake of the argument i won't do niether of them, instead i will name you 2 classes.


Kensei

Warlord.


Now think again on the part underlined.

Cya

EDIT: Sorry to say that but the "op class" means, because claiming "I killed a nobushi with a warlord" well, doesn't sound that impressive, you know what I mean right ?

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 03:35 AM
Lol at the Raider mains saying he doesn't need a nerf. Personally, I think he was overbuffed to a certain extent, but he still SHOULD be strong, although I am tired of getting 2 hit killed by things I can't avoid by a high rep high-gear-score raider in 4v4 modes. The amount of times I've been knocked over and hit with one unblockable or heavy by raider to knock my health down 3/4s or 2/3s is obnoxious. Same can be said about the Centurion combo, I also hate that (and one of my mains is Centurion) but Raiders damage especially on high leveled players is RIDICULOUS.


We were speaking in 1v1 scenario, but well, in 4v4 they are comletely broken. The stamnpede charge abuse in 4v4 is real beyond imagination, and as I said their damage with damage buff is illegal.

They can hit you 80 damage with a single heavy. And probably even more with the enhanced zone after a light.

watsonclan335u
08-02-2017, 04:00 AM
We were speaking in 1v1 scenario, but well, in 4v4 they are comletely broken. The stamnpede charge abuse in 4v4 is real beyond imagination, and as I said their damage with damage buff is illegal.

They can hit you 80 damage with a single heavy. And probably even more with the enhanced zone after a light.

Enhanced zone? wtf dude there have been no changes that I'm aware of since launch. Show me a tourney that has been won by a raider. ALL characters should be deadly in the right hands, once you get some more hrs under your belt you might also become venerable, until then keep practicing. This whole thing is just dumb and at this point I now realize that you cant fix stupid. Having said that, I found you stupid so I'm choosing to leave you that way. The drugs you use are clearly working.

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 04:04 AM
Enhanced zone? wtf dude there have been no changes that I'm aware of since launch. Show me a tourney that has been won by a raider. ALL characters should be deadly in the right hands, once you get some more hrs under your belt you might also become venerable, until then keep practicing. This whole thing is just dumb and at this point I now realize that you cant fix stupid. Having said that, I found you stupid so I'm choosing to leave you that way. The drugs you use are clearly working.



You are surely aware if you use a zone as combo finisher does more damage than a normal one.

"Show me a tourney that has been won by a raider" If all is going as i think, the one for the 10k dollars.


Besides. Winning tournaments is now a criteria for buff and nerf a class ?



So warlord that is dominating the "competitive scene" since d1 should be comletely removed from this game, yet he is still here and still domitaes.


Same with pk's, yet she is still here and still can light spam.



So whats exactly your point ? If you have one ?.

Alustar.
08-02-2017, 10:53 AM
I don't know if laughing or actually crying.

But for the sake of the argument i won't do niether of them, instead i will name you 2 classes.


Kensei

Warlord.


Now think again on the part underlined.

Cya


We were speaking in 1v1 scenario, but well, in 4v4 they are comletely broken. The stamnpede charge abuse in 4v4 is real beyond imagination, and as I said their damage with damage buff is illegal.

They can hit you 80 damage with a single heavy. And probably even more with the enhanced zone after a light.

I still maintain what I've said. It's not the class it's the player. I went into a match against a ptemade group of raiders. 4v4 and we won.
I've gone into. Brawl against a Cent and a warlord and won, and that is typically my worst match up. Skill will trump any class "OP" or not.

I understand egos are fragile here and it must really upset you but that's life deal. Stampede is freaking easy to dodge. As are most of his hits. But go on tell me more about how it's ALL because I play "the best class in the game".

CandleInTheDark
08-02-2017, 11:13 AM
Seriously if you see a big smelly dude (or dudette) running at you in 1v1 double dodge out of the way. In 4v4 no it isn't broken, it is working as intended and even if it were it's not near as broken as the centurion's CC.

Lyskir
08-02-2017, 11:24 AM
Seriously if you see a big smelly dude (or dudette) running at you in 1v1 double dodge out of the way. In 4v4 no it isn't broken, it is working as intended and even if it were it's not near as broken as the centurion's CC.

smelly? c'mon candle that's mean :(

My raider washes himself every day, thats why he has such shiny nippels

CandleInTheDark
08-02-2017, 11:26 AM
smelly? c'mon candle that's mean :(

My raider washes himself every day, thats why he has such shiny nippels

Ah my apologies,though it reminds me of how someone phrased the question over if Ubi were working on the tracking all I know my character smells but seriously lol.

DrinkinMyStella
08-02-2017, 12:19 PM
Raider is really good now, love his changes he's now half decent, I don't struggle too much against him, I'm always preparing for the heavy cancel into stunning tap, he has to still use mind games and heavy feints to win against good players so he's not OP

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 01:15 PM
Raider is really good now, love his changes he's now half decent, I don't struggle too much against him, I'm always preparing for the heavy cancel into stunning tap, he has to still use mind games and heavy feints to win against good players so he's not OP

"is really good now"

"is half decent"



ok, i guess.


Stampede abuse is fine.

Oupyz
08-02-2017, 02:08 PM
I play raider and stampede charge needs to go asap it breaks the character balance . please no one defend that ****

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 02:10 PM
I play raider and stampede charge needs to go asap it breaks the character balance . please no one defend that ****

It took a while, but finally a honest player showed.


Ty man.

DrinkinMyStella
08-02-2017, 03:58 PM
"is really good now"

"is half decent"



ok, i guess.



Stampede abuse is fine.

wow so what most heroes have an ability which is either guaranteed damage or stamina drain why not give raider something. I haven't met any players that abuse the stampede yet unless your trolling someone why would you want to abuse it. It will only become a problem when they implement PTS stamina nerf but until then raider is fine.

DrinkinMyStella
08-02-2017, 04:02 PM
It took a while, but finally a honest player showed.


Ty man.


look your thanking someone for having the same opinion as you? its got nothing to do with honesty its just opinions, I think he is fine and I don't struggle to beat him thats my opinion. There is no character balence, raider can't break the game anymore than it is. Leave him alone and move on to bigger problems. I hate berserkers they are my hardest matchup but when I lose to one I don't cry nerf, I take a breath and carry on.

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 04:20 PM
wow so what most heroes have an ability which is either guaranteed damage or stamina drain why not give raider something. I haven't met any players that abuse the stampede yet unless your trolling someone why would you want to abuse it. It will only become a problem when they implement PTS stamina nerf but until then raider is fine.

Ever heard of enviromental kills ?

BTW

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6ndd8s/psa_raider_seems_to_have_been_banned_from_the/


Stampede i so much fine LOL, even ESL says the contary, but no, FH forums member are all gods

https://youtu.be/CNjEOsK3kZA?t=188

LOL

He has even the unlock exploit to get a heavy after a GB. This class lol

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 04:23 PM
look your thanking someone for having the same opinion as you? its got nothing to do with honesty its just opinions, I think he is fine and I don't struggle to beat him thats my opinion. There is no character balence, raider can't break the game anymore than it is. Leave him alone and move on to bigger problems. I hate berserkers they are my hardest matchup but when I lose to one I don't cry nerf, I take a breath and carry on.

Do you know the difference between losing vs a bers and losing because a player
continuously unlock the guard to perform a charging 50/50 ?



Do you know the difference between losing vs a kensei because he played well, and losing vs a wrlord because he parried one single attack and literally dragged you accross the map to the farthest ledge ?

CandleInTheDark
08-02-2017, 04:51 PM
Could the stampede charge do with being a little slower? Maybe, even his mains say yes and I would tend to take their opinion when it comes to a nerf is needed since I have been there with my main. At the same time I don't understand how it is so hard to, when you see a raider unlock, know there is something coming and double roll out of the way, you might still be down stamina but you're not down stamina and taking a free heavy. I certainly don't think he is all that op in the state he is in though I called how quickly people would turn on one of the lower tier characters back when people were slamming the peacekeeper.

DrinkinMyStella
08-02-2017, 04:54 PM
Do you know the difference between losing vs a bers and losing because a player
continuously unlock the guard to perform a charging 50/50 ?



Do you know the difference between losing vs a kensei because he played well, and losing vs a wrlord because he parried one single attack and literally dragged you accross the map to the farthest ledge ?

environmental kills were put in the game to be used just take the defeat and move on. All these things are not exploits even the unlock tech the devs said that this was intended. so what if raider can ledge and stamina drain, so can cent every hero has its down falls and the devs compensated for this by giving them something like warlords throw, raiders stampede, shiobi ranged attacks, zerks super amor and soft feints. all that has happened is raider has gone from low tier to mid tier.

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 05:00 PM
environmental kills were put in the game to be used just take the defeat and move on. All these things are not exploits even the unlock tech the devs said that this was intended. so what if raider can ledge and stamina drain, so can cent every hero has its down falls and the devs compensated for this by giving them something like warlords throw, raiders stampede, shiobi ranged attacks, zerks super amor and soft feints. all that has happened is raider has gone from low tier to mid tier.

Kappa

Alustar.
08-02-2017, 05:20 PM
It's sounds to me like this guy can't seem to get out of a stampede charge. It's not like your dropping into match after match of nothing but raiders.

If raider was really as OP as this thread would have you believe you would see more of them in open matches like you did when the warden unlocked GB instant kill was uncovered.

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 05:31 PM
It's sounds to me like this guy can't seem to get out of a stampede charge. It's not like your dropping into match after match of nothing but raiders.

If raider was really as OP as this thread would have you believe you would see more of them in open matches like you did when the warden unlocked GB instant kill was uncovered.

Meanwhile ESL banned them

Your are defending a broken mechanic of the game, now I see why most of the best "players" are the one that exploit non stop.

What a pathetic community thisgame has.

So sad.

RatedChaotic
08-02-2017, 05:53 PM
The Raider character is the most under privileged character in the game! He has the most limited move set, he's extremely slow, and his moves are predictable. I have a Rep 30 Raider and I still struggle fighting noob opponents who utilize the more Over Powered characters like the Centurion or Orochi. Raider also has the crappiest looking gear. I realize that the Vikings weren't known for their Blacksmithing skills but if they were the great raiders and pillagers of that Era then wouldn't they at least have some good armor and gear taken from others? Seriously Ubisoft stop dumping on the Raider class please! Even the Warden and Kensei as Vanguards have a pretty decent and versatile move set. So lets stop treating the Raiders class like lower class Illegal Immigrants and put your heads together and come up with just one or two moves for the Raider that can help him hold his own versus the more powerful characters and give the poor guy some cool looking gear that's not missing a button or held together by rope.

Thanks.

Raider the most limited. I think not.

watsonclan335u
08-02-2017, 06:40 PM
Well if this thread is any indication then I'd say only three or four people share your sentiment about Raider being "OP". The rest seem to think you've been sniffing glue so if that doesn't give cause to re-think your standpoint then you really are delusional.

Alustar.
08-02-2017, 06:54 PM
Meanwhile ESL banned them

Your are defending a broken mechanic of the game, now I see why most of the best "players" are the one that exploit non stop.

What a pathetic community thisgame has.

So sad.

Is it just me or is this a response I would expect to see from Trump on twitter, that's what's really sad here.

Also I wouldn't really regard what a third party sponsored tourney has to say about character balance. Instead of using someone else's opinion how about forming your own based on logic and experience?

Lyskir
08-02-2017, 07:07 PM
Is it just me or is this a response I would expect to see from Trump on twitter, that's what's really sad here.

Also I wouldn't really regard what a third party sponsored tourney has to say about character balance. Instead of using someone else's opinion how about forming your own based on logic and experience?

so he says we defending a broken mechanic? uhm.....

almost everyone agree here with a raider stampede nerf, so what kind of broken mechanic gets defended? ah i forgott raiders zone lul ( ͝ ͜ʖ͡)


He seems so confused

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 07:19 PM
so he says we defending a broken mechanic? uhm.....

almost everyone agree here with a raider stampede nerf, so what kind of broken mechanic gets defended? ah i forgott raiders zone lul ( ͝ ͜ʖ͡)


He seems so confused

Raider zone is an amazing opener and can lead to some extremely good mix ups.

So again, if uou think raider is low tier u should git gud. And the soon you start the better.

Oh and im still waiting that screen where I say that raider whole kit is op.

C'mon mr poor arguments:)

"almost everyone agree here with a raider stampede nerf"

You said it. Almost. Some pf these are saying that is conpletely fine

One of them said that abusing it brings u in disadvantage.

I woul love to 1v1 him to see how i would be in disadvantage.

But probably he would refuse

Knight_Raime
08-02-2017, 08:07 PM
environmental kills were put in the game to be used just take the defeat and move on. All these things are not exploits even the unlock tech the devs said that this was intended. so what if raider can ledge and stamina drain, so can cent every hero has its down falls and the devs compensated for this by giving them something like warlords throw, raiders stampede, shiobi ranged attacks, zerks super amor and soft feints. all that has happened is raider has gone from low tier to mid tier.

hold the phone. Devs said the insta stampede is intended? Or am I tired and misreading this?

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 08:14 PM
hold the phone. Devs said the insta stampede is intended? Or am I tired and misreading this?

Ofc its intended, they buffed it that way. He was speaking about unlock techs.

Which clearly shows how much he knows about the game.


Every unlock attack that can bypass guad/parry is an exploit. and not allowed by the devs.

Knight_Raime
08-02-2017, 08:16 PM
Could the stampede charge do with being a little slower? Maybe, even his mains say yes and I would tend to take their opinion when it comes to a nerf is needed since I have been there with my main. At the same time I don't understand how it is so hard to, when you see a raider unlock, know there is something coming and double roll out of the way, you might still be down stamina but you're not down stamina and taking a free heavy. I certainly don't think he is all that op in the state he is in though I called how quickly people would turn on one of the lower tier characters back when people were slamming the peacekeeper.

This is basically error's logic:

~ stampede exploit is stupid. and makes raider top tier.

~ raider was banned from tourney because exploit. because of ban this 100% proves raider is top tier and broken.

~ raider has an unblockable. which makes raider top tier.

~ raider can mix up his unblockable. Which makes raider top tier and good at opening players.

~ unblockables are spammable. broken. and a problem. Since raider has an unblockable he's a broken character that's top tier and godly.

It's aggressive circle logic that is physically not debatable with the person because of their own personal issues with the game. They can and will try to "Debate" with people that respond to them. But the debate turns into "no your wrong" followed usually with some link that's showing the thing he's talking about. But doesn't actually counter any point you've made against him at any time.
the user is a borderline troll and people would do best to just let them stew in their own hatred rather than encourage his flamey nonsense.

Alustar.
08-02-2017, 08:37 PM
This is basically error's logic:

~ stampede exploit is stupid. and makes raider top tier.

~ raider was banned from tourney because exploit. because of ban this 100% proves raider is top tier and broken.

~ raider has an unblockable. which makes raider top tier.

~ raider can mix up his unblockable. Which makes raider top tier and good at opening players.

~ unblockables are spammable. broken. and a problem. Since raider has an unblockable he's a broken character that's top tier and godly.

It's aggressive circle logic that is physically not debatable with the person because of their own personal issues with the game. They can and will try to "Debate" with people that respond to them. But the debate turns into "no your wrong" followed usually with some link that's showing the thing he's talking about. But doesn't actually counter any point you've made against him at any time.
the user is a borderline troll and people would do best to just let them stew in their own hatred rather than encourage his flamey nonsense.

I feel arguing with him is worse than discussing quantum mechvanics with a 10yr old

Netcode_err_404
08-02-2017, 08:40 PM
I feel arguing with him is worse than discussing quantum mechvanics with a 10yr old

Thats because you are not arguing, you are saying BS.

You came in that threadby saying that the stampede is fine because you as PK can dodge him.


I just pointed out the fact that pk has the best dodge in the game. Slower classes needs to eat his 50/50 every time he unlocks.


"but canbe dodged",

Ever heard about feints ? I even posted a video showing how much broken the stampede is. As well as his unlock exploits.




Than knigh lame showed us, claiming that I said I want the raider nerfed at whole, when I was just pointing out to these ladies, that raider is perfecty strong in the current meta, AND if not nerfed, will be a god in the next one. Thats all.

Alustar.
08-03-2017, 01:10 AM
You know, if we added some vinegar and some pepper, you could marinate in this thread.