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View Full Version : MY FIRST COMPLAINT (Shinobi)



DaLast_Samurai
07-24-2017, 01:07 AM
I see a lot of people complain about the Centurion, and people rebut with you having to know how his moves work, and thus learn to counter them.
One on one sure, but he's probably still a bit of unbalanced B.S. in a group fight scenario.

And Peacekeeper sure has become pretty darn over powered since the patch.

But still nothing frustrates me more than a Shinobi.
The boom, boom, boom, poof away, charge the Scorpion gauntlet range blade act is so frustrating.
I feel helpless with Orochi.

The only time I get to punish one is if I'm lucky enough to get him cornered by a wall where he can't get away.

So not only does he make it unfair to go after him when he's camping ten feet away from you with his chain blade charged and twirling, so now it's my job to dodge, dodge, dodge to try to get near him without getting hit, fat chance...

But if he catches you with that back and forth face slap where he puts you on your knees, that's your reward for getting hit once in close proximity... half your health gone.
Then it's a swift kick, poof dodge, and he's rolling ten feet away and charging the come get it fun chain blade again.

So, I've been playing maybe 2 months now.
I know I still have more to learn, but I've been playing non-stop and have gotten pretty darn good and can hold me own against most characters.

But this is my first complaint here on these forums.
And honestly, it feels a little insulting as a customer that the season pass characters are not being nerfed for the obvious reason of Ubisoft wants them to sell more.

I put a lot of money into the game.
Into my Orochi.
I've bought steel packs, champion status for a year, and the season pass.

But I only use Oroch.
I bought the season pass basically for the sun beam and just to have it for down the road if I like any new characters.

I just want to say to Ubisoft, as a newer player who became addicted and loves this game...
This particular aspect is a little bit of pouring salt in the wound...

Meaning, your game's "micro-transactions" are anything but Micro.
I've never seen a game that unless someone wants to put countless hours of work into multiple characters to build gear stats and so forth, such an expensive design for advancement.

The amount of steel and salvage for upgrades is insane FOR JUST ONE CHARACTER!

But I'm cool with that, fine.
I love my one character.

But don't then go making your season pass characters over powered to the point where the game is just unjust.

I'm at the point where I just back out of every lobby I see that I'm facing a Shinobi.

I really believe nerfs for these characters should have been a priority long ago, and it's obvious why they have not been.
And again, that is very insulting and infuriating as a customer.

Don't get me wrong,
I still love this game, and I don't want to become one of those who just get on here to constantly cry and moan.
But I did want to express this to Ubisoft,
That this whole situation of giant micro-transactions coupled by season pass characters that are obviously over powered for profit is a bit much.

At least nerf these guys and don't do this to us again.
And I would be happy to spend even more money on the game.

Thank you.

kweassa1
07-24-2017, 03:27 AM
I'm not sure how you're managing your classes... but in the course of like 5 months, I've spent in total around $50 (USD) for steel packs ... which is like spending average 10 bucks a month ... and I have like 6 classes over rep5 in yellow-tier gear that averages in around 110~120.

Are you really certain it's not your spending habit that's the problem here?

DaLast_Samurai
07-24-2017, 05:01 AM
Well, I'm a perfectionist.
I care about everything.

I care about the exact look of every piece.
And having every gear stat combination in every category available maxed out to play with for different fighting styles.

This takes a lot of tweeking until you are satisfied.
Then there's outfits and ornaments.

I've spent way more than you on just one character, and when I get to Rep 18 finally in the next day or two, I get to finally complete the exact look I want.
With every gear stat combo in every category maxed out.

And I bought the season pass and champion status.

I don't mind investing in a game I love.

But there's no way you can convince the majority of people that the pricing for these micro-transactions isn't a bit on the side of audacious on Ubisoft's paart.

Which is one reason I only invest in Orochi.
The other being the whole reason I bought this game, when I found out I could be a freaking Samurai and run around with a Katana online.

But like I said, that's all fine by me.

Not right at all from a consumer stand point, but fine by me.

Just don't pour salt in the wounds with having season pass characters OBVIOUSLY MADE TO HAVE UNJUST ADVANTAGES FOR PROFIT.

That's the worst part, that's the sickening part.

AND THEY ARE OVER POWERED.

Sure you could study Centurion and learn to counter him and make him a joke in one on one combat.
In a group fight though, that's a whole lot of agonizing unjust robbery that ruins the experience of the game for people.

Shinobi, just as bad in a different way.

And finallly, the most insulting part, is how these characters are allowed to go on like this because hmmm...
Oh yeah, it's for profit.

You want to do right by your gaming customers?

You should have been working on nerfing these characters long ago, before working on adding new game modes and other updates.
Or you should have removed them and brought them back when you got them balanced.

I love this game, it's addicting.
I love it's potential.

But if that becomes the pattern with season pass characters, it could be a deal breaker down the road.
And if they have the nerve to finally nerf these characters after bringing out new unjustly over powered ones, or worse yet, not nerfing them at all and just leaving the original characters in the dust.

Well then, I'm pretty disgusted.

Zwerqi
07-24-2017, 08:15 AM
Shinobi is balanced.... he has like half your health and all his attacks (except the lights) are blockable or parryable.

DaLast_Samurai
07-24-2017, 08:23 AM
So we have to be 100% perfect with blocking every attack?
No, completely unbalanced.

You miss one bock and you are on you knees getting your face slapped back and forth until you have 25% health.
Then before you can strike right back, poof... Magic dust and he's ten feet away twirling his fun blade.

No, I don't buy defending the season pass characters one bit.
They are obviously for profit, at the expense of a fair shake for all in the game.

kweassa1
07-24-2017, 09:41 AM
Well, I'm a perfectionist.
I care about everything.

I care about the exact look of every piece.
And having every gear stat combination in every category available maxed out to play with for different fighting styles.

This takes a lot of tweeking until you are satisfied.
Then there's outfits and ornaments.

I've spent way more than you on just one character, and when I get to Rep 18 finally in the next day or two, I get to finally complete the exact look I want.
With every gear stat combo in every category maxed out.

And I bought the season pass and champion status.

I don't mind investing in a game I love.

But there's no way you can convince the majority of people that the pricing for these micro-transactions isn't a bit on the side of audacious on Ubisoft's paart.

You're a "completionist" and you have some wacked-up need to buy shi* that's not essential in anyway... spending abnormal amounts of money on the game...

...and the problem here is that the "prices are audicious" and "microtransactions are unfair"? :rolleyes:



Have you heard of this concept called 'saving up' or 'making spending plans'?

Dunno how rich you are, but that's usually what us normal, sane people do.

We kinda do this thing called "have patience"... and we also do this thing called "long term planning" so we kinda check and pace ourselves in how much money we spend ... and make sure that we don't just go out buying everything just because "I want it".

So when normal people like me, do those normal things, sorry, no. Us normal guys don't have any of the "microtransaction problems" you mention. :rolleyes:



Ever consider going to therapy or something? :D

DrinkinMehStella
07-24-2017, 10:03 AM
Shinobi go quite a big nerf, which has made him quite low tier in my opinion. Pre nerf he was a pain in everyones *** but now he is fine.

Ubi-Swaguchi
07-24-2017, 10:07 AM
There's a lot of interesting points here. From what I'm seeing and correct me if I'm wrong, you're looking for some buffs to the Orochi and some nerfs to the Shinobi?

If that's the case, what specifically do you feel needs to be changed? Is it the damage output? The cool down on moves? The more specific your feedback the easier and quicker it can be to investigate this and try and implement it.

DaLast_Samurai
07-24-2017, 10:49 AM
More specifics?
Plain and simple, it's his range and untouchable evasiveness combined with the damage he deals.

I thought I described it pretty well.
One moveset from him literally puts you on your knees and takes 75% of your health.
And when he's finished with that, you can't do anything to stop him from poof dodging ten feet away.

So now he's camping, and I have to try to evade his twirling chain blade toss to get to him, with 25% health.
If I get hit now I'm down even more.
Or if I get hooked I'm done.

If by some miracle I can get to him, now I have to start the whole process over again with 25% health.

It's beyond unfair and unjust.

Boggles my mind how some people on here will defend this stuff.
Makes me have to think they are users of the characters, Ubisoft staff on personal accounts or something.

You don't hear this kind of defense on the mics in the game.
Because it's ridiculous.

DaLast_Samurai
07-24-2017, 11:01 AM
And to keweezy...

You seem pretty amped up about my preference for having everything in a video game.
Seems a bit dramatic for a video game.

Sounds more like sound advice for diversifying retirement plans.
This is a video game... a... video... game...

These transactions are not micro for someone who works, supports a family, exc...
Doesn't have time to build multiple characters...

I'm sure the nerd rage superior ranting on the web page about how this should not be complained about by someone who maybe has all day and night to devote to video games might make one feel better.

But come back to reality with us.

But like I said, that's life...
It's grossly over priced, so someone like me can't have multiple characters in competing shape is fine by me.

Just give a fair shake with the character I do use.

Sorry to burst your whole rant bubble.

But us abnormal people who work and support have views too.

Maybe the superiority complex you display with a trigger on forum pages without a doubt fueled by irrational bitter rage is where the therapy is needed.

I mean look at the irony, you can see the steam coming out of your last post.

DaLast_Samurai
07-24-2017, 11:03 AM
And the emojis are just sad brother.
Try hard much?
lmao

SerArthur-Dayne
07-24-2017, 11:13 AM
Both orochi and shinobi are hands down the two worst characters in the game. Both need a buff.

It's honestly insane how unbalanced it is. Orochi has been a running meme on reddit as the class that resorts to running away, or laughable storm rush fails or the rest of his super predictable moveset. Parried a storm rush!? Nani?

Shinobi did need the 50/50 removed, but was a weak pick even when he did have it, he is now garbage tier. I have a feeling all k/d data for him is just because he can get one hit in in a gank, and it pads his body count because of it. This guy is the furthest from being a competitive char. Honestly needs his ranged stuff nerfed, but his melee move set/ deflect buffed a lot, along with health a tad.

DaLast_Samurai
07-24-2017, 11:18 AM
Oh but hey, you did help me with something.

You ended my curiosity about this forum.

I've been on various video game forums for 17 years now.

And I was almost thinking For Honor was the first game forum I was ever seeing that didn't have "those people".

The ones who live to police forums with the confrontational superiority complex from a keyboard because they're off their meds.

And it's far too dramatic for me.

Knew it was too good to be true, so I'll give you a win.

I'm not gonna waste my time on another forum with this kind of sadness.

I hope Ubisoft pays you well.

Because you did a good job in convincing me it's too toxic to express an opinion as is the case with EVERY FORUM EVER.

F* that noise.

I'll just message the devs what I would like to express directly and observe the sadness once in a whiile.

But I know you have to "win".

So make yourself feel better, last words all for you chief.

I'm sure you'll convince yourself you are superior and your points are law in every aspect without fail.

You go girl!

"emoji"

Alustar.
07-24-2017, 11:52 AM
Oh but hey, you did help me with something.

You ended my curiosity about this forum.

I've been on various video game forums for 17 years now.

And I was almost thinking For Honor was the first game forum I was ever seeing that didn't have "those people".

The ones who live to police forums with the confrontational superiority complex from a keyboard because they're off their meds.

And it's far too dramatic for me.

Knew it was too good to be true, so I'll give you a win.

I'm not gonna waste my time on another forum with this kind of sadness.

I hope Ubisoft pays you well.

Because you did a good job in convincing me it's too toxic to express an opinion as is the case with EVERY FORUM EVER.

F* that noise.

I'll just message the devs what I would like to express directly and observe the sadness once in a whiile.

But I know you have to "win".

So make yourself feel better, last words all for you chief.

I'm sure you'll convince yourself you are superior and your points are law in every aspect without fail.

You go girl!

"emoji"

Obvious troll is obvious. I hope it's apparent now this user has no desire to debate or discuss his issues. He's just going to whine and when someone comes foreword to rebut his pints, he falls back on Sad, poorly conceived attacks. Best to just ignore this and move on. Wait for Notty to end the thread

kweassa1
07-24-2017, 12:06 PM
I really couldn't care less what your preference is. That ain't nobody's problem.

The "problem" begins when you're the guy that orders everything on the menu to get 3 tables full of food in one visit to the restaurant, and then starts a throwing shi* about how overpriced the restaurant it when yo get billed for 3,0000 bucks.

So no. The microtransaction isn't "audacious" at all -- what's "audacious" is your wreckless spending habit and weird, weird twisted logic of how the service prover is at fault.

Decembre.
07-24-2017, 12:52 PM
I play both orochi and shinobi. Shinobi is NOT an easy char to play "effectivly" and i actually rarely lose to shinobi when i am on my orochi, the agility makes it even, his kick is np for easy dodge punish and everything else you bait out. And if they're just to good for you then you might just be bad against shinobis period. I feel his only strenght is being support for his mates, 1v1 is imo a handicap for shinobis more or less.

Gray360UK
07-24-2017, 01:21 PM
I think you lost me at the point where you bought an entire season pass just for a Sunbeam emote. Not to be rude but you can't spend your money on things like that and then complain about micro-transactions. People with spending habits like that, who will buy superficial things for prices that far exceed their value, are exactly why we have micro-transactions in games in the first place.

The Season Pass has never been worth the money in my eyes. I own both the Season Pass characters without owning the Season Pass, so that pretty much says it all. Technically, they are not even 'Season Pass characters' as the sentence before this one proves.

Time / Work = Reward / Prestige. Simple equation. When you throw money into that the whole principle that you work for what you want goes out the window, and people start judging rewards in financial terms instead of what it says about their determination and effort. You have good items because you own a Credit Card not because you worked for them. Horrible ideology and it wouldn't exist if I had my way.

Having said all that the micro-transactions in this game are entirely optional. I have done extremely well when it comes to gearing up characters just by playing, from round end crates, from story mode crates, from multiple events that reward 2000 steel and from the easy 1000+ Steel a day you can earn in under an hour. Anything you want in the game can be earned in a matter of days. 6 months down the line, not being someone who has to have everything, I can say I have everything I want, and I am currently sitting on over 50,000 Steel.

Antonioj26
07-24-2017, 03:43 PM
Both orochi and shinobi are hands down the two worst characters in the game. Both need a buff.

It's honestly insane how unbalanced it is. Orochi has been a running meme on reddit as the class that resorts to running away, or laughable storm rush fails or the rest of his super predictable moveset. Parried a storm rush!? Nani?

Shinobi did need the 50/50 removed, but was a weak pick even when he did have it, he is now garbage tier. I have a feeling all k/d data for him is just because he can get one hit in in a gank, and it pads his body count because of it. This guy is the furthest from being a competitive char. Honestly needs his ranged stuff nerfed, but his melee move set/ deflect buffed a lot, along with health a tad.

Far from the worst, that title belongs to zerk and kensei. It's true roach only had two attacks but those two attacks are better than 90% of attacks in the game and has a fairly high oos punish. Only bad orochis let storm rush go, that's not a reason to dock points from him. Having crappy attacks don't negate the good ones he has.

Shinobi still remains to be one of the best, his 50/50 is still there you just have to do a ranged gb instead which comes out instantly. He has one of the best light parries in the game, kick is still relatively safe and can't be punished by half the cast, front kick is still only 500ms, fastest lights that are a guaranteed double to take out hyper armor, ranged GB or ranged heavy, great at diminishing enemy stam, quad dash, best deflect in the game with 50 damage. People only think he's weak because bad players get punished for using range attacks when it isn't safe or because his small health pool, if you know what you are doing his small health pool isn't going to hinder you.

RatedChaotic
07-24-2017, 04:02 PM
All I know its hard for me to catch a Shinobi on a Conq. Let alone get a hit on one. But thats to be expected i guess. And I can dodge a players shinobo slide on that bridge but a bots slide i cant. Whats up with that? I dont know. Just me i guess.

mrmistark
07-24-2017, 05:12 PM
To help with shinobi: it's strength is it's biggest weakness. When he is at range you have a good amount of time to react to gb or an attack. If you parry or cgb (which just takes a little practice timing, but becomes very easy) then you can punish him hard. After about 2 times most shinobis stop trying to range play you and try to spam their lights and kick. Kick is easy to see coming, I usually just go for a side light or zone when you see them double dodge. This will interrupt the kick and an atttempt at simply trying to not kick and gb you when you try to dodge the side kick. As for the lights, he has to be pretty close. Once they are close is when you need to be aggressive. Gb will be your friend here. Force the pace of the game with them as hell try to double dodge around. Just try to block the light spam coming in. Don't worry about trying to parry. Zone again as orochi will help you a lot in this match up when he gets close.

SerArthur-Dayne
07-24-2017, 07:09 PM
I have to disagree man. Kensei is an absolute feint master, and has an excellent wall throw punish, top tier crowd control moves, and with the upcoming offence meta, I reckon he'll make it even further up the roster from average to just a bit above.

Zerker in my opinion is just a better orochi in many ways. Way better left/ right light spam, excellent at mixups with gb means attempting to parry him is a dumb idea with the exception of that giant top heavy, his oos punish is great, his wall throw to top heavy is enormous damage, because of this his gb's are absolutely lethal, and add to that that his deflect is a free gb often leading into that. Best dodging attacks in the game especially against 1v4. When he buffs his weapons, that top heavy is basically a ohk. Not saying he's op either, just a lot better than orochi.

"Only bad orochis let storm rush go" not really entirely true. Your always trying to get your enemies to whiff so you can land this, and considering the timing is tighter than a nats *******, often at the best of times in a 1v1 barely doable with a pre emptive storm rush.

Parry shinobi ranged attacks for free damage. After this he'll have to come in close or resort to kicks. Dodge kicks and punish or just trade him to death. Other than that you fighting a weak low hp char who's easy to gb. Basically giving gb's away with the constant dashing. You can't really get any better with shinobi because his skill ceiling stops super abruptly at the fact that you are relying on your enemies inability to parry/ ranged cgb. ive met many decent shinobi, but I have never ever seen a great one.

Anyway just my opinion on it, cheers.

Antonioj26
07-24-2017, 07:21 PM
I have to disagree man. Kensei is an absolute feint master, and has an excellent wall throw punish, top tier crowd control moves, and with the upcoming offence meta, I reckon he'll make it even further up the roster from average to just a bit above.

Zerker in my opinion is just a better orochi in many ways. Way better left/ right light spam, excellent at mixups with gb means attempting to parry him is a dumb idea with the exception of that giant top heavy, his oos punish is great, his wall throw to top heavy is enormous damage, because of this his gb's are absolutely lethal, and add to that that his deflect is a free gb often leading into that. Best dodging attacks in the game especially against 1v4. When he buffs his weapons, that top heavy is basically a ohk. Not saying he's op either, just a lot better than orochi.

"Only bad orochis let storm rush go" not really entirely true. Your always trying to get your enemies to whiff so you can land this, and considering the timing is tighter than a nats *******, often at the best of times in a 1v1 barely doable with a pre emptive storm rush.

Parry shinobi ranged attacks for free damage. After this he'll have to come in close or resort to kicks. Dodge kicks and punish or just trade him to death. Other than that you fighting a weak low hp char who's easy to gb. Basically giving gb's away with the constant dashing. You can't really get any better with shinobi because his skill ceiling stops super abruptly at the fact that you are relying on your enemies inability to parry/ ranged cgb. ive met many decent shinobi, but I have never ever seen a great one.

Anyway just my opinion on it, cheers.

All kensei really has is his top light, everything else is too slow and telegraphed. No proper way to open up a turtle and fairly average damage across the board. Those are all great things about zerk but he's stopped simply by his enemy blocking. Everything you just listed can easily be beaten by a turtle.

Orochi might fall below him once zone flicker is gone but having a 400ms attack that's safe on block is a far more reliable way to open a turtle than feinting all over the place. You just admitted that the timing is extremely tight on storm rush which is why you shouldn't be using it, it's not worth the free parry which is why you'll almost never see people use it at higher levels.

Which is why you don't do shinobis long range attacks unless it's safe. The shinobis 50/50 is even better since he can just react to your move on most players. Rather than just throwing out blind kicks he can bait a parry or dodge, which is what he should be doing until neither of those are working. Stop being in range to be gb during a dash and problem solved.

Glad we can have a civil discussion even though we disagree, cheers friend.