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BearKaji
07-19-2017, 11:14 PM
Hello,


i need to get this off my chest, this has been bugging me since the day of release.

For Honor is a great game concept, new, exciting and engaging, but there is alot wrong with it. We all know this and are aware of this but there is something that really is like a thorn in my side. hell maybe i am not the only one.

the developers are walking a very, very fine line at this point. yes you are more responsive, yes you are working on our concerns and we apriecate that BUT,
you are handling your news updates and your comunity as a 100% working AAA title. This is not the case what so ever.
you guys need to know by now that the players like me and others that stood the test of time are now Gloryfied BETA testers until you manage to fix your game to the point people will actually want to buy this game.

now what i would like to see from the developers and i would like a response on this that they will talk about this in upcoming Warrior Den's is acknowledgment
that we are the only people that are keeping this game going at this point. furthermore and this is the biggest gripe i have with the developers is the folowing;

give us more information straight of the bet artwork, 3d character design, test footage, balance change sheets the whole lot.
now why would i think this is ok, because you guys are acting like we are dancing on a rainbow when it comes to this game where as in fact we are crawling to muddy swamp.
this hyping and "ooooooeeee look what Santa Ubisoft is going to show you next week, well ill never tell" needs to stop we are sick and tired of it, you are in fact making us more angry because we think this is a joke to you guys, because why else would you as a team think its ok to run this game a 100% working AAA title. no more next week bs, big news upcoming bs, we are working on it bs. show us what you are doing show us all the material we have earned that respect for sticking around and supporting you guys but this bs needs to stop.

i hope a Community Dev sees this and makes work of it.

and if not we as a community need to make this thread blow up.

we paid 60-130 euros and we are BETA testing time to put our foot down and say we need transperancy.

UbiNoty
07-19-2017, 11:47 PM
We do try to be as transparent as possible with everything we are working on. We communicate on a very regular basis, from top to bottom. Our comdev and directors come on stream each week to interact with and update the community, and us CM/CRs try to answer all your questions as much as we can. We aggregate the majority of our big weekly announcements into the livestream because it is the most efficient way to release information as opposed to doling it out piece-meal and scattered across the week.

If there are any particular places that you feel could use some more conversation, I'd be more than happy to bring it up with the devs. But do keep in mind that sometimes we have very valid reasons for not revealing everything. We don't want to make promises we can't deliver on, which is why we keep certain things closer to the chest until it's ready to be announced. E.g: Defensive meta changes - we've been talking about it for the longest time and tried to give updates on what kinds of things we're testing internally, but being so quick to reveal the defense meta stuff so early on actually backfired on us because it ended up taking more time than we realized it would to release.

BearKaji
07-19-2017, 11:55 PM
We do try to be as transparent as possible with everything we are working on. We communicate on a very regular basis, from top to bottom. Our comdev and directors come on stream each week to interact with and update the community, and us CM/CRs try to answer all your questions as much as we can. We aggregate the majority of our big weekly announcements into the livestream because it is the most efficient way to release information as opposed to doling it out piece-meal and scattered across the week.

If there are any particular places that you feel could use some more conversation, I'd be more than happy to bring it up with the devs. But do keep in mind that sometimes we have very valid reasons for not revealing everything. We don't want to make promises we can't deliver on, which is why we keep certain things closer to the chest until it's ready to be announced. E.g: Defensive meta changes - we've been talking about it for the longest time and tried to give updates on what kinds of things we're testing internally, but being so quick to reveal the defense meta stuff so early on actually backfired on us because it ended up taking more time than we realized it would to release.

i agree that you need to be carefull with what you show and what you keep hidden, but on that topic as you asked me for some info on where i would like to see improvment.

i think we can both agree that this game has had a rough start and that is putting it mildley. but yet i dont know if this is your team or the top guys from Ubisoft the way that this game is being treated in streams is like it is a 100% working AAA title that needs a couple of tweaks no biggy.
look i understand you guys are not waiting for more backlash thats not healthy for anybody but maybe just be open about the situation. if you guys are having difficulty with the game because the entire game is a new concept in code-ing maybe it would help more if you guys are tranperant about it. i would totally understand it that its rough because its new if i change something here something there gets broken.

that is my feedback give the community credit for sticking around even through a very very ****ty start and just be open about the problems you guys are facing.
if that is not possible because of the upper floor that it is what it is.

but i think it would help alot cause we do feel like glorified BEtA testers right now

CandleInTheDark
07-19-2017, 11:58 PM
Honestly I do feel they have been transparent with us. There are issues, certainly, like they don't talk about networking every week because like Emile or Eric said if they went on every patch saying this is going to be The One people would be saltier than they are over it and with good reason. I can see how people miss things though, I honestly have to pay attention and generally know enough of what has been said to answer queries on here because I recap the dev streams in a thread on the forum every week. Everything big coming though like the gear score, buffs and nerfs in patches, they have been talked about when they are near and we know what is happening medium term like we know they are looking at the samurai characters and that after the defensive meta stuff they might look at the conqueror.

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 12:08 AM
Honestly I do feel they have been transparent with us. There are issues, certainly, like they don't talk about networking every week because like Emile or Eric said if they went on every patch saying this is going to be The One people would be saltier than they are over it and with good reason. I can see how people miss things though, I honestly have to pay attention and generally know enough of what has been said to answer queries on here because I recap the dev streams in a thread on the forum every week. Everything big coming though like the gear score, buffs and nerfs in patches, they have been talked about when they are near and we know what is happening medium term like we know they are looking at the samurai characters and that after the defensive meta stuff they might look at the conqueror.

i do agree and stated this that they are doing a much better job than from the start.

but like you and i were discussing in the last thread is that alot of people are stomping they're feet and Hollering for any thing that, that individual is mad about.
what i think is part of the root problem is that people dont understand why things take so long to get fixed, neither the devs are explaining why.
i think that this would be a huge improvment for the community if somebody on a stream explains the procces they need to go through to fix something.
even if majority of the people dont understand a word there are plenty of people that can put it lay mans terms on youtube.

i think it would really help to disccus this on the stream.

CandleInTheDark
07-20-2017, 12:13 AM
i do agree and stated this that they are doing a much better job than from the start.

but like you and i were discussing in the last thread is that alot of people are stomping they're feet and Hollering for any thing that, that individual is mad about.
what i think is part of the root problem is that people dont understand why things take so long to get fixed, neither the devs are explaining why.
i think that this would be a huge improvment for the community if somebody on a stream explains the procces they need to go through to fix something.
even if majority of the people dont understand a word there are plenty of people that can put it lay mans terms on youtube.

i think it would really help to disccus this on the stream.

Yeah it might help with some if they watch the stream and don't decide they are being fobbed off, I think the majority would be fine with an explanation and not say much about it, the vocal ones would be calling BS. Outside the connection issues (and I have griped that hey my connection might be slow but I can be in a game with 40 in battlefield), I always kind of figured it would be a rough start. Their closest thing to combat, that I know, is assassin's creed and they don't need to worry about balance there, closest game I can think of period is dynasty warriors and honestly, I love it for what it is but it is a button masher with a few simple combinations.Actually telling people this and why it is difficult might not be a bad step, I agree, for however much good it does.

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 12:16 AM
@Ubinoty

talk about it with the devs what CandleInTheDark and i just spoke of i think it would take alot of confusion out of what is going on there.
even justifies more content than actuall patches. because if it is difficult we can get behind you guys for that strat.

Gray360UK
07-20-2017, 12:32 AM
There was something said on the last stream (and similar has been said many times before) along the lines of 'there's a lot we're working on that we don't tell you about' and as I said at the time in the chat - 'tell us, we want to know, don't work on things and not tell us about it, we like knowing'.

I feel increasingly they have been vague and evasive, maybe out of fear of making things worse if they don't deliver something they have suggested they will and so on, but honestly, the tiny bit of information we are left with, the soon™ comments, the 'we're working on it', the 'deal with it' jokes ... I think sometimes they are making it worse already.

Warriors Den is a double edged sword, that yes lets us hear from the developers, good thing, but also raises expectations and hopes unrealistically every week to a point where unless they announce something spectacular the audience gets disappointed at best and becomes hostile at worst. A week goes by where they don't mention connectivity - 'they don't care about connectivity anymore!' the audience cries. A week goes by where they don't promise to nerf the Centurion ... we all know what happens then.

I dunno, sometimes I think they'd be better off only having a Warriors Den when there is something significant to announce. There were weeks when I found it quite hard to write the summary because I knew from the forums what people were expecting or waiting to hear about, and it wasn't addressed.

I guess I'm saying, if you have things you're working on that you're not telling us about, plans, hopes, fears, dreams, visions, messages from the other side, whatever ... share. I for one don't believe it will make it worse than saying nothing.

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 12:37 AM
There was something said on the last stream (and similar has been said many times before) along the lines of 'there's a lot we're working on that we don't tell you about' and as I said at the time in the chat - 'tell us, we want to know, don't work on things and not tell us about it, we like knowing'.

I feel increasingly they have been vague and evasive, maybe out of fear of making things worse if they don't deliver something they have suggested they will and so on, but honestly, the tiny bit of information we are left with, the soon™ comments, the 'we're working on it', the 'deal with it' jokes ... I think sometimes they are making it worse already.

Warriors Den is a double edged sword, that yes lets us hear from the developers, good thing, but also raises expectations and hopes unrealistically every week to a point where unless they announce something spectacular the audience gets disappointed at best and becomes hostile at worst. A week goes by where they don't mention connectivity - 'they don't care about connectivity anymore!' the audience cries. A week goes by where they don't promise to nerf the Centurion ... we all know what happens then.

I dunno, sometimes I think they'd be better off only having a Warriors Den when there is something significant to announce. There were weeks when I found it quite hard to write the summary because I knew from the forums what people were expecting or waiting to hear about, and it wasn't addressed.

I guess I'm saying, if you have things you're working on that you're not telling us about, plans, hopes, fears, dreams, visions, messages from the other side, whatever ... share. I for one don't believe it will make it worse than saying nothing.

you and i have the exact same idea

i agree with everything you just say and exactly thank you for wording it better than i have, they have become more evasive
thats what i meant with the trying to be secretive about new stuff trying to get us excited like little kids, first you have to do your chores though
do you know what i mean? in my case it makes me lose more faith in this entire endavour

this is not a well working AAA title and you guys need to really start communicating to us like that not like you have been doing.

UbiNoty
07-20-2017, 12:37 AM
Will do - so basically what I gathered from the discussion, you'd like to see:
1. Why things (like bugs/connectivity issues) take so long to get fixed
2. The process that the team needs to go through to get it fixed.

Is that correct? I believe we've touched upon all these topics before in at least some way before, and going into an in-depth explanation would probably be a big endeavor and they'd need time to prepare - but I'll pass it up to the team to see if they can find some time to discuss it over tomorrow/next week's livestream and at least offer some initial insight.

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 12:40 AM
Will do - so basically what I gathered from the discussion, you'd like to see:
1. Why things (like bugs/connectivity issues) take so long to get fixed
2. The process that the team needs to go through to get it fixed.

Is that correct? I believe we've touched upon all these topics before in at least some way before, and going into an in-depth explanation would probably be a big endeavor and they'd need time to prepare - but I'll pass it up to the team to see if they can find some time to discuss it over tomorrow/next week's livestream and at least offer some initial insight.

well Noty let is be a big thing. this is not a small hick up in the road we that have discussed it in this forum support the game 100% but this needs to become much more transparent what the actual ptoblem is with fixing issues

people will be much more understanding that you guys are discovering the America's of gaming.

Gray360UK
07-20-2017, 12:46 AM
Will do - so basically what I gathered from the discussion, you'd like to see:
1. Why things (like bugs/connectivity issues) take so long to get fixed
2. The process that the team needs to go through to get it fixed.

Is that correct? I believe we've touched upon all these topics before in at least some way before, and going into an in-depth explanation would probably be a big endeavor and they'd need time to prepare - but I'll pass it up to the team to see if they can find some time to discuss it over tomorrow/next week's livestream and at least offer some initial insight.

Correct. I would prefer to hear about obstacles, problems, setbacks and plans than to be told 'there's a lot you don't know about' any day. It's the kind of thing a boss tells the staff when he thinks they don't need to know about something.

Treat us like equals, gain our respect.

By the way, thanks for your continued support and for making it possible for our voices to be heard, you are a star :)

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 12:47 AM
Correct. I would prefer to hear about obstacles, problems, setbacks and plans than to be told 'there's a lot you don't know about' any day. By the way, thanks for your continued support and for making it possible for our voices to be heard, you are a star :)

+10

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 12:53 AM
Will do - so basically what I gathered from the discussion, you'd like to see:
1. Why things (like bugs/connectivity issues) take so long to get fixed
2. The process that the team needs to go through to get it fixed.

Is that correct? I believe we've touched upon all these topics before in at least some way before, and going into an in-depth explanation would probably be a big endeavor and they'd need time to prepare - but I'll pass it up to the team to see if they can find some time to discuss it over tomorrow/next week's livestream and at least offer some initial insight.

i just a topic on connection issues this has been going on since release

this is real advise i am not joking

put a network engineer on the stream and let him explain what the difficulty is step by step and why certain things are not as simple as one push of a button.
people well start lowering nagging

be as transparent as water my friend

Gray360UK
07-20-2017, 01:11 AM
We don't want to make promises we can't deliver on.

On this particular note, I want to say, that when we are told 'We are working on it' or 'soon™' this already creates a promise, but a vague one with no deadline. This is worse in my opinion than a more specific promise that you later explain you are unable to deliver on (as long as you explain why and what you're going to do instead).

I would rather have specifics and am adult enough to accept that things don't always happen exactly when expected, than have a vague notion that something could happen any moment between right now and next Christmas.

Let me give you an example. Tell a gamer they will receive a Beta code in their email 'soon™' and tell me how many times a day they check their emails to see if they have it yet. Tell a gamer you will send them a Beta code next week on Thursday, they check only on that day and do not spend all of the days before that frustrated and disappointed. Now if it doesn't arrive on Thursday, as long as you explain why and when you expect it to arrive instead, that's better than in the first example where you leave a gamer to get increasingly frantic as every day passes with no email.

In For Honor terms every 'soon™' creates a new set of frantic gamers checking the forums every day and Warriors Den every week to see if this is the week. If we know it's in September, we check in September, and we don't get disappointed every week in July and August. You get the idea :)

Maybe this is just me, I'm reluctant to speak for everyone, but for me, tell me and I'll 'deal with it', however things turn out in the end. Don't tell me and I'll feel left in the dark and frustrated.

Just don't promise that Shugokis are going to go on a diet. Nobodys buying that one ;)

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 01:28 AM
Will do - so basically what I gathered from the discussion, you'd like to see:
1. Why things (like bugs/connectivity issues) take so long to get fixed
2. The process that the team needs to go through to get it fixed.

Is that correct? I believe we've touched upon all these topics before in at least some way before, and going into an in-depth explanation would probably be a big endeavor and they'd need time to prepare - but I'll pass it up to the team to see if they can find some time to discuss it over tomorrow/next week's livestream and at least offer some initial insight.

from a post on the forum:

I must admit I've been a childish A-hole in the past and have thrown insults and threats on this forum, and since then I have learned that that solves nothing and it just makes me look like an idiot... but since it is clear that you either don't know how to fix the problem, or worse, you simply don't care, I will stand by one thing that I have said in the past if the ladder holds to be true: The way you treat us is INSULTING.

another one complaining about transparency:

Well, what's stopping them from releasing the real numbers? I mean after all it was them who removed actual player count from the game after release.

But I guess if Trump can get away with saying it, why not Ubi?

"Connectivity Issues?"
Saaaad

"Matchmaking?"
Did not happen

"Centurion?"
Confefe

same thing diffrent thread:

When it works right this game is so satisfying but just poking at some fun how about a warriors den game!
Every time you hear "Believe me, we are working on it" "We have to check the data" or "its something we are looking into" you take a shot or chug a beer. Imagine how quickly you would get your buzz going for the Thursday afternoon lol.

On a side note: Regardless of the issues with the game Thanks for doing the Warriors Den. Its a weekly show that the company doesnt have to do but does. Regardless of the information or lack of information put out there we are able to actually speak with the director and devs to see what is going on and get weekly updates.

Last but not least..Good gosh knights we are on the verge of winning this freaking round. GET IT TOGETHER AND PLAY!!!!
See you on the battlefield xbox - WARRIOR238

i can go on and on and show you so many of the same post but the truth is what they need is transperancy

UbiNoty
07-20-2017, 01:28 AM
I understand you're all tired of hearing "soon" - I am too. But there's definitely something to be said for the potential backlash that could come from us oversharing.

I do feel where all your frustration is coming from though and I'll do my best to get them to talk and share a bit more about this topic (maybe not tomorrow but the next one at least)

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 01:32 AM
I understand you're all tired of hearing "soon" - I am too. But there's definitely something to be said for the potential backlash that could come from us oversharing.

I do feel where all your frustration is coming from though and I'll do my best to get them to talk and share a bit more about this topic (maybe not tomorrow but the next one at least)

@Ubinoty

im sorry to say this but i think you guys got it backwards. the reason you guys are getting bashed so much is because of evasive answers and no clear dates
nobody is taking you serious you guys are not being forward because you are afraid of backlash and that is exactly what is causing the backlash to happen

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 01:36 AM
I there's definitely something to be said for the potential backlash that could come from us oversharing.)

oversharing at this point is THE cure

this is my advice to you guys take it or dont at least ive tried

i am an responsible aldult and have 17 years of game experience in all forms and this has never hurt anyone and espacially in For Honors case could really be a Fire escape

Snoop_Godly
07-20-2017, 01:57 AM
Personally. I do feel like as you said. We are glorified Beta testers. And I personally feel that FH is a rough sketch. A sketch for the master piece Monaco Lisa that is FH2. This is a new concept. First iv seen like this. It feels like they are using this as a (test bed) to so to speak to get as much data as possible (and money backed for FH2) they have said they are thinking long terms. But as I said. I think and I believe with how it feels with all the signs. That is is not the game. It's a rough sketch. An idea. A money making idea (with the communities hearts and wants in mind also) this is a taste of what to come. Personally. I wouldn't be mad at all if Ubisoft just came out and said it. If this was what's gonna happen. Great stuff. Fan Base is pretty wide. It's got bugs and issues yes. But if they are using this to iron it out. I'd just like to know and be kept in the loop. As some have stated here. To know what's happening. As fans and players and dedicated people who love this game despite its problems. We do deserve to know and I do believe if what I have stated is correct. I believe nearly all of the community wouldn't be salty at all. If anything. We'd give more feed back and support to the devs.

Tillo.
07-20-2017, 02:09 AM
Since closed beta that I can't play this game uninterrupted. For others it has been since tech tests and alpha. Bugs glitches balance and cosmetics can always be reworked.
The core problem is connection. You say it is top priority, and that is a lie. Why? Because of all the time that has passed and no improvement whatsoever.
Every time you guys say it is top priority you are taking us by fools. It is offensive, negative and non constructive.

teamspirit1
07-20-2017, 02:52 AM
Since closed beta that I can't play this game uninterrupted. For others it has been since tech tests and alpha. Bugs glitches balance and cosmetics can always be reworked.
The core problem is connection. You say it is top priority, and that is a lie. Why? Because of all the time that has passed and no improvement whatsoever.
Every time you guys say it is top priority you are taking us by fools. It is offensive, negative and non constructive.

i am in the same boat.i cant complete a single game due to error 00060000137.i have tried everything mentioned on ubisoft site.even contacted support.but no benefit.each week , i watch warriors den with a hope that they will announce something to fix connectivity issues.but all i get from these streams is 'we are working on it'.when i try to find some news on forums, i see standard answeres like' contact support etc.' community managers must understand that this game is 5 months old and by this time most of the players have tried connectivity fixes mentioned on ubisoft support page.its high time devs share with us what they are doing to fix connectivity issues at their end, roadmap to fix these issues.somebody mentioned that network engineer should be brought on stream to explain these things.i think its very good idea.it will calm our nerves if we get to know what they are doing exactly to fix connectivity issues.

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 02:54 AM
Since closed beta that I can't play this game uninterrupted. For others it has been since tech tests and alpha. Bugs glitches balance and cosmetics can always be reworked.
The core problem is connection. You say it is top priority, and that is a lie. Why? Because of all the time that has passed and no improvement whatsoever.
Every time you guys say it is top priority you are taking us by fools. It is offensive, negative and non constructive.

Would you agree that if they would be more transparent about why its taking long and explain in debth the problems they face you would be less agrevated?

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 02:58 AM
i am in the same boat.i cant complete a single game due to error 00060000137.i have tried everything mentioned on ubisoft site.even contacted support.but no benefit.each week , i watch warriors den with a hope that they will announce something to fix connectivity issues.but all i get from these streams is 'we are working on it'.when i try to find some news on forums, i see standard answeres like' contact support etc.' community managers must understand that this game is 5 months old and by this time most of the players have tried connectivity fixes mentioned on ubisoft support page.its high time devs share with us what they are doing to fix connectivity issues at their end, roadmap to fix these issues.somebody mentioned that network engineer should be brought on stream to explain these things.i think its very good idea.it will calm our nerves if we get to know what they are doing exactly to fix connectivity issues.

Yes that was me suggesting the network engineer. I hear your gripes guys ive got it in diffrent areas of the game but this all boils down to one simple thing. Stop saying soon, stop saying we are working on it. Give us concrete information about everything so people know what is going on

Tillo.
07-20-2017, 03:04 AM
Would you agree that if they would be more transparent about why its taking long and explain in debth the problems they face you would be less agrevated?

To be honest no. That ship has sailed five months ago.
They should have been like that since day one, and they should have reimbursed to whoever asked for it.

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 03:09 AM
To be honest no. That ship has sailed five months ago.
They should have been like that since day one, and they should have reimbursed to whoever asked for it.

I agree with you this should have been cleared up within the first week.

But as we are all stuck in this i cant think of anything that could help more right now than to have a network engineer come down say what they are dealing with.

And if it is as they say not solveable by adding dedicated servers than at least we know the facts

But if it is solveable by that than thats a whole other can of worms

C00tBAjenkins
07-20-2017, 03:59 AM
I agree, a better understanding of what is going on is not a bad thing.

As far as connection goes I look for patterns. I play mostly in the early AM U.S. and usually have most issues then. Noticed today that region would goto all and if players left the game almost always dropped for me. Then playing at peak times in region i could play match after match people leaving and joining with nothing but an occasional resynce. If distances create the issue then really we have no fix. It's going to be a case of more issues or less on when people decide to play in your area.

teamspirit1
07-20-2017, 04:12 AM
connectivity state at least in the region i play is horrible.players disconnect like flies.i wonder who decides the content to be shown on stream.people plagued with connectivity issues are desperate to hear some news about connectivity related patches.instead of that they discuss faction war,ornaments etc. i am not against that but talk to us clearly about connectivity on stream as ubisoft claims its their priority.

Pvt.Stash_x
07-20-2017, 04:51 AM
oversharing at this point is THE cure

this is my advice to you guys take it or dont at least ive tried

i am an responsible aldult and have 17 years of game experience in all forms and this has never hurt anyone and espacially in For Honors case could really be a Fire escape


@Ubinoty

im sorry to say this but i think you guys got it backwards. the reason you guys are getting bashed so much is because of evasive answers and no clear dates
nobody is taking you serious you guys are not being forward because you are afraid of backlash and that is exactly what is causing the backlash to happen

Guys. As a software developer myself I can tell you that this is how development works. The more information the team shares the more they paint themselves into a corner. When they promise dates and the dates pass for whatever reason it just makes the community more angry. Developers aren't vague because they are trying to anger users. They're vague because they're trying to under promise and over deliver.

Please understand that I'm not saying this game doesn't have problems. I'm not defending the long standing issues and lack of communication. I'm only saying this is how developers have to operate to protect themselves. Believe me, users are better off asking 'when?' than saying 'you promised it yesterday'. That's the honest truth.

Tillo.
07-20-2017, 04:56 AM
Sadly it is more than being vague.
They have been saying connectivity is a top priority issue since February 14th 2017. Lie.
They have blamed the players internet speed or configuration for months before acknowledging they had "some". Yes, inverted commas because they say some and not game breaking HUGE problems. They are evasive and vague in every reply. They threaten, punish and ban forum users for calling out the truth.

Draghmar
07-20-2017, 08:22 AM
Please understand that I'm not saying this game doesn't have problems. I'm not defending the long standing issues and lack of communication. I'm only saying this is how developers have to operate to protect themselves. Believe me, users are better off asking 'when?' than saying 'you promised it yesterday'. That's the honest truth.
Yes, but at this moment it's not the problem of 'when' but 'if'. They have small team (yeah I know they try to tell otherwise but I know how things like that work) so they have priorities. I don't think connectivity is really top priority for them in a sense that there are more smaller issues that are bigger when taken together. And seeing how they improved connectivity last time (mostly lower information passed between peers and probably narrowing down areas/players you can connect to) I can assume that we won't see any significant improvements until FH2 because they don't know how to fix that with the resources they have.

nufrancis
07-20-2017, 08:34 AM
Personally. I do feel like as you said. We are glorified Beta testers. And I personally feel that FH is a rough sketch. A sketch for the master piece Monaco Lisa that is FH2. This is a new concept. First iv seen like this. It feels like they are using this as a (test bed) to so to speak to get as much data as possible (and money backed for FH2) they have said they are thinking long terms. But as I said. I think and I believe with how it feels with all the signs. That is is not the game. It's a rough sketch. An idea. A money making idea (with the communities hearts and wants in mind also) this is a taste of what to come. Personally. I wouldn't be mad at all if Ubisoft just came out and said it. If this was what's gonna happen. Great stuff. Fan Base is pretty wide. It's got bugs and issues yes. But if they are using this to iron it out. I'd just like to know and be kept in the loop. As some have stated here. To know what's happening. As fans and players and dedicated people who love this game despite its problems. We do deserve to know and I do believe if what I have stated is correct. I believe nearly all of the community wouldn't be salty at all. If anything. We'd give more feed back and support to the devs.

100% agreed with you, from my observation playing this game since March, I also feel the same. Looks like FH just a prototype for a bigger project. If not FH2 then we can expect different title with same genre and mechanics. Hopefully even if this game will be stamped as failure after final season, they will release a new groundbreaking game.

I still love this game even thought the connection and unbalance issues haunts me everyday T_____T

Vingrask
07-20-2017, 09:33 AM
We do try to be as transparent as possible with everything we are working on. We communicate on a very regular basis, from top to bottom. Our comdev and directors come on stream each week to interact with and update the community, and us CM/CRs try to answer all your questions as much as we can. We aggregate the majority of our big weekly announcements into the livestream because it is the most efficient way to release information as opposed to doling it out piece-meal and scattered across the week.

If there are any particular places that you feel could use some more conversation, I'd be more than happy to bring it up with the devs. But do keep in mind that sometimes we have very valid reasons for not revealing everything. We don't want to make promises we can't deliver on, which is why we keep certain things closer to the chest until it's ready to be announced. E.g: Defensive meta changes - we've been talking about it for the longest time and tried to give updates on what kinds of things we're testing internally, but being so quick to reveal the defense meta stuff so early on actually backfired on us because it ended up taking more time than we realized it would to release.

You feel Defensive changes backfired you guys because the lack of information about what stage the process was, reason why we started to believe it would be just a "content" for Season 3.

Did you guys shared with us the stages (like "we have X numbers of builds" or "we are testing/looking for bugs/gattering data now", etc) much of the discontentment wouldn't happen. I'm happy that we are finally close to the patch, but it took forever and we had no info about what was being done. It is so bad share with us the stages of the process?

C00tBAjenkins
07-20-2017, 10:27 AM
I'm not sure about a FH2. How many more hero's could they have period wise after the 4 remaining for next season's. I could be wrong but I don't see enough content available to make another game in this manner unless it was more of a revamp with same character's but even then not sure that warrents a completely new game.

CandleInTheDark
07-20-2017, 11:07 AM
Did you guys shared with us the stages (like "we have X numbers of builds" or "we are testing/looking for bugs/gattering data now", etc) much of the discontentment wouldn't happen. I'm happy that we are finally close to the patch, but it took forever and we had no info about what was being done. It is so bad share with us the stages of the process?

They did tell us on one Den that there were a number of things they were considering, I think they felt the stuff was closer to dropping than it was when they discussed it. If I recall, we have been told the flicker fix is part of it and that they were considering things such as chip damage, making parry less rewarding (they repeated that again quite recently, can't recall when but in the last month or so) and making out of stamina more dangerous. We also know their aim with this is to make it more rewarding as a whole for the player going on the offensive.

Connection I agree is a thing and I agree that maybe if they had someone talking about it in terms we could understand it might help some, myself, I am annoyed that after about 7pm est I can't stay in 4v4 (fortunately that is midnight for me and I get a few hours it is more stable) and that I can play with 40 players on other games and not even get lag, I gripe about this and I am one of the ones that is more give them time over things like balance because I had the feeling it was going to be rough to begin with as I cannot think of many games like this and none that Ubi have done. I also do get the argument that they used when they said why they don't talk about it every patch, that if they constantly said hey guys this is The One, people would get mad and would be quite right to. It is something they are constantly working on and things have gotten better, there were times I couldn't 4v4 at all and sometimes couldn't 2v2, as times go on I have gone to hey I can finish a few games to I can expect, in a certain time period, to finish at least half of them, maybe more, which still isn't too good but it is better than where we started. But I do agree a general this is where we are now and again would be a good thing.

Gray360UK
07-20-2017, 11:11 AM
Guys. As a software developer myself I can tell you that this is how development works. The more information the team shares the more they paint themselves into a corner. When they promise dates and the dates pass for whatever reason it just makes the community more angry. Developers aren't vague because they are trying to anger users. They're vague because they're trying to under promise and over deliver.

Please understand that I'm not saying this game doesn't have problems. I'm not defending the long standing issues and lack of communication. I'm only saying this is how developers have to operate to protect themselves. Believe me, users are better off asking 'when?' than saying 'you promised it yesterday'. That's the honest truth.

Maybe that's what software developers think, how little faith they have in their target audience, how bad at communication and customer relations they are, but it's patronizing and we are not children.

It cannot get worse than the situation we are in now, with the constant vague 'working on it' and 'soon™' messages. Some of these issues have been around for 6 months and all we have is 'working on it' and 'soon™'

Look how unhappy the playerbase is, look how many have gone for good, look how few with have left. You think protecting themselves is working out well? Trust me, it is not. You don't set up a show like Warriors Den with the aim of being transparent and then be vague and evasive. That is far worse than not setting up a show like Warriors Den in the first place.

I'm gonna speak for most when I say the vague, evasive, non-committal approach is just making people angry. The Twitch chat feed during every Warriors Den is full of angry people fed up with the vague promises and evasive deadlines. It comes across as nothing is being done, no progress has been made, no one is working on it, we have no idea when. They would be better to say nothing and let us believe that than confirm it every week by giving such vague answers and leaving us to shrug and twiddle our thumbs for weeks.

No one is asking them to lie and promise things they can't do. Just to tell us what they are doing and when they expect it to be implemented, What they are doing about X, how long they think that will take, an expected ETA for fixes, or at least how many stages and processes there are before we might see a fix.

A painter came to paint my parents house the other week. He thought it would take 3 days. He told them what work he had to do, how long he expected to spend sanding the walls down and filling up holes, how many coats of undercoat, how many coats of paint, how long he thought each step would take. It actually took 4 days. It didn't matter. He was transparent throughout. He didn't turn up on the Monday and just say it will be done 'soon™' or when asked how long it might take say 'I am working on it'

If you think you cannot be transparent with your customer base out of fear of not delivering, then you are treating them like children and you are being evasive, not because you have no idea, but because you don't want to risk being honest and up front with them. All that leaves is being dishonest and evasive and that is never a good way to treat people.

Tyrjo
07-20-2017, 11:14 AM
I think they (the devs and community managers) do a good job at being transparent. They are as transparent as they can be. They are vague when things are not set in stone. Which is something that you have to be able to be in a project like this.

Dude_of_Valor
07-20-2017, 11:38 AM
I understand you're all tired of hearing "soon" - I am too. But there's definitely something to be said for the potential backlash that could come from us oversharing.

I do feel where all your frustration is coming from though and I'll do my best to get them to talk and share a bit more about this topic (maybe not tomorrow but the next one at least)

Is there or has there been any evidence to suggest that this is true? Would it not be great to have a gaming company that not only interacts with the people that play there game, but also set time lines for what people can expect and when.

At the moment you get grief from people on a forum when things take too long or you give a politicians answer to a question. Maybe it is worth trying something different, because right now it is same old same old.

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 12:27 PM
I think they (the devs and community managers) do a good job at being transparent. They are as transparent as they can be. They are vague when things are not set in stone. Which is something that you have to be able to be in a project like this.

i dont agree with you on this imo this game is half done, we are basicly BETA testing all the kinks out of the game so that they can start advertising again that the game is fixed and strike up more money.

this is not only decieving to us but unfair. when you buy any other Early Acces title they Devs have a clear agenda with what is to come and ETA and they hear your gripes and wishes and do something about it. as far as i heard City Skylines is probably one of the best examples of how to run a game. even if this doesnt aply to UBi because it is a bigger company there is still the fact that this game 60% done and we are Testing the kinks out of it and i would like to be treated as a tester in that case and have no more vague answers.

BearKaji
07-20-2017, 12:30 PM
i must say guys this is a clean and constructive thread with great formulated opinions keep it up!

Tillo.
07-20-2017, 01:03 PM
FH2? LOL
I agree with the fact that we are playing a beta game. Nothing has changed since I have played closed and open beta.
After being charged USD 60 for a beta broken game, refund denied, support stalled me so that I couldn't get my cc company to reimburse me, threatened punished and banned by the forum mods, I will never ever buy anything from this company ever again.

Rikuto01.tv
07-20-2017, 01:21 PM
I understand you're all tired of hearing "soon" - I am too. But there's definitely something to be said for the potential backlash that could come from us oversharing.

I do feel where all your frustration is coming from though and I'll do my best to get them to talk and share a bit more about this topic (maybe not tomorrow but the next one at least)

In my experience the only time there is backlash from oversharing is when somebody is doing something that they should not be doing.

Of course, who wants to go into work and potentially be criticized by a million anonymous individuals? Talk about stressful.

Most development starts in secret and is revealed down the road. Kinda like cheating on your partner -- sure, its bound to come out eventually, but coming clean doesn't exactly repair the relationship.

But for all the small-time developers out there, guys working with a gofundme page or a patreon or kickstarter or whatever -- the small time devs who are constantly printing updates and asking for input with complete transparency every step of the way, never hiding anything? I haven't really seen any of them ever be viciously attacked by their community.

Sadly, the AAA industry isn't set up like that and it's really a victim of its own practices. The industry believes its practices are solid, but the little guy proves them wrong on a daily basis, always showing them there is a better way to maintain community relations. It just goes ignored.

RatedChaotic
07-20-2017, 02:58 PM
Its Ubisoft.....Maybe they know if they are too transparent we will see them for what they really are.......full of hot air.

Many of us read through the Connectivity threads and even experience it ourselves. Ubi is using the same approach as Guild Wars 2 devs did when it was suffering with connectivity issues at the start. The whole change your ports to open or close BS. I was even on a 3way with my PC support team and Guild Wars support team. Ya the guild wars support team hung up. And they found the problem on their end not a week later. Epic

I see the exact samething happening here. Ubi does not know why there are connection issues. Its why we see the same things posted in complaints. Go to support. Change your ports. We are working on it...Soon. What is your error code. take a pic it will help us. Really? How many screenshots of the same errors do you need? I seen multiple users post multiple screenshots of the same errors months ago. Why do you still need them? lol Did the picture change that much? lol

i think you should have enough screenshots and data by now to make it to the 2nd Earth planet. When its located. NASA will be looking to you for data gathering. Because you are the best at that atleast.

I feel like a mouse in a maze and Ubi keeps changing the maze while Im in it.

teamspirit1
07-20-2017, 04:28 PM
just read this response from ubinoty in other thread--

"My apologies. Like I said in another thread, If it's gotten worse than usual - please send in a ticket.
Tickets are annoying and unfortunately support can't always give you immediate answers, but more if we see numerous tickets coming in we'll know there's a problem that needs immediate attention."

he still wants to know whether connectivity problem needs immediate attention !!

RatedChaotic
07-20-2017, 04:30 PM
And dont forget that screenshot. lol

CandleInTheDark
07-20-2017, 08:38 PM
There was a part of the Den that pretty much made the OP's point for him. So many times over the past week or so I have read people saying that they raised concerns over the raider stampede charge in PTS and it still went live. The fact was that the patch had already gone through, there was no fixing it until they did the live update today. So if the devs had actually said this, some (I suspect not all but some certainly) would have been more understanding about that.