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View Full Version : Realism to Bailing Out!!



jamieandnici
01-04-2004, 10:22 AM
I have always loved playing IL2 FB and have always enjoyed the realism it offers. However, I have one little question that someone might be able to help me out with.

Can someone please tell me why no thought has been put into action to incorporate a system of bailing out of a stricken aircraft while it is quite clearly pulling at high g's?

To cut it short, there was no way on earth a pilot pulling high g's (over 1 to 2g's) was ever going to manage to lift his little finger from his joystick let alone reach his arms up above his head to pull the cockpit hatch, slide the cockpit frame behind him, unbuckle the seat harness and to finally get his head out into the slipstream to be whisked out to safety.

On many occasions when an aircraft has had its wing/s blown off by a cannon round (mine included!), the aircraft obviously starts to spiral and spin uncontrollable, but the pilot (if at high enough altitude) always manages to bail out successfully, even given the g's that particular aircraft is pulling. I have also noticed that the pilot who can be killed inside and outside of his aircraft does often hit his tailfin when bailing out but nothing ever happens, and yet on many occasions i have shot a pilot bailing out and have hit him in my plane my plane disintergrates into tiny fragments!!

Going back to real life a good example of crews that took a heavy punishment were the poor old B-17 crews. There bomber hatches were in hard to reach places and with the clothing and gear they were wearing it was very much the luck of the draw to successfully bail out of their crippled aircraft. Even BF109 pilots had to try to turn their planes upside down to get out fast because of their clothing and the size of their cockpits.

I remember back to the days of one of the first flight sims '1942'. That game managed to incorporate this type of bailing out system into the game.

I don't want to sound begrudging or ungrateful, because the game offers so much to me and i'm sure you will all agree that this is the best sim out there.

jamieandnici
01-04-2004, 10:22 AM
I have always loved playing IL2 FB and have always enjoyed the realism it offers. However, I have one little question that someone might be able to help me out with.

Can someone please tell me why no thought has been put into action to incorporate a system of bailing out of a stricken aircraft while it is quite clearly pulling at high g's?

To cut it short, there was no way on earth a pilot pulling high g's (over 1 to 2g's) was ever going to manage to lift his little finger from his joystick let alone reach his arms up above his head to pull the cockpit hatch, slide the cockpit frame behind him, unbuckle the seat harness and to finally get his head out into the slipstream to be whisked out to safety.

On many occasions when an aircraft has had its wing/s blown off by a cannon round (mine included!), the aircraft obviously starts to spiral and spin uncontrollable, but the pilot (if at high enough altitude) always manages to bail out successfully, even given the g's that particular aircraft is pulling. I have also noticed that the pilot who can be killed inside and outside of his aircraft does often hit his tailfin when bailing out but nothing ever happens, and yet on many occasions i have shot a pilot bailing out and have hit him in my plane my plane disintergrates into tiny fragments!!

Going back to real life a good example of crews that took a heavy punishment were the poor old B-17 crews. There bomber hatches were in hard to reach places and with the clothing and gear they were wearing it was very much the luck of the draw to successfully bail out of their crippled aircraft. Even BF109 pilots had to try to turn their planes upside down to get out fast because of their clothing and the size of their cockpits.

I remember back to the days of one of the first flight sims '1942'. That game managed to incorporate this type of bailing out system into the game.

I don't want to sound begrudging or ungrateful, because the game offers so much to me and i'm sure you will all agree that this is the best sim out there.

AirBot
01-04-2004, 10:39 AM
Unfortunately, the bailing out system in IL-2 is very simplified. While I'm not sure bailing out of a spiraling airplane is totally unrealistic, there is the point of the pilot not having contact with his airplane. I think the game's built so that up-to a certain point after bailing, a pilot does not clip. This means he can bail and have his body pass right through the wing (for example) of his aircraft, without any visible results. However, the airplane most certainly can kill him if it hits him later in the bailing sequence, as can yours.

IMHO, it would have been nice to have a more realistic bailing sequence, but I don't think this is an important enough point to detract from the quality of this great sim.

Deathsledge
01-04-2004, 10:40 AM
well i definately understand what you're saying and think most of us here do but there has been occasions where i've had a wing blown off or even more simple than that, i would accidentally get into a spin and because of high g's, i couldnt bail out even at damn near 3000 meters. just one of those things we'll have to deal with http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rick_475
01-04-2004, 10:40 AM
I've been in situations where I couldn't bail out, I couldn't make the plane stable and I crashed in the ground. If you want to make bailing out more "fatal" it's going to be frustrating.

You get a high % to be captured when you bail out over ennemy territory. In single player, being captured or being killed is the same thing. If you want to add a high % of causalities due to bailing out over friendly territory, i'm not going to like it to start all over again.

If you want more realism with bail out. Play with Instant Success ON, so every time you'll bail out, you'll get MISSION FAILED. Then just assume you were killed while bailing out, and start all over again.

In multiplayer if the ennemy bails out, you get a kill to your credit, so who cares if the guy survives or not?

SeaFireLIV
01-04-2004, 11:08 AM
I think the bail out thing is pretty good. Sure you can fly through the plane for a moment, which is unrealistic, but like the other guy says, this is probably to give a safe `bubble` to jump in. Once you`re out the `clipping detection` returns. I`ve also had several cases when my planes gone into a death dive and either I simply can`t get out at all, or it takes so long that by the time I get out I`m 10ft from the ground.

Several times I`ve bailed out of a plane to be killed a moment later cos it blew up or a bit of it hit me.
I only breathe a sigh of relief once the dying plane is well away from me! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

`Man is an embodied paradox, a bundle of contradictions.` Lacon.

SmokeJaguar
01-04-2004, 11:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I think the bail out thing is pretty good. Sure you can fly through the plane for a moment, which is unrealistic, but like the other guy says, this is probably to give a safe `bubble` to jump in. Once you`re out the `clipping detection` returns. I`ve also had several cases when my planes gone into a death dive and either I simply can`t get out at all, or it takes so long that by the time I get out I`m 10ft from the ground.

Several times I`ve bailed out of a plane to be killed a moment later cos it blew up or a bit of it hit me.
I only breathe a sigh of relief once the dying plane is well away from me! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

`Man is an embodied paradox, a bundle of contradictions.` Lacon.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man you hit the nail on the head. So many times I have died in the way you describe and you just made me want to load up FB again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Nice try captain ambush"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FI-Aflak
01-04-2004, 12:04 PM
actually, I have found that your pilot won't bail when you are going excessively fast . .

you got to slow down to a reasonable speed before jumping. . . .

Odranoel3
01-04-2004, 03:52 PM
I have noticed the following:

- Cannot bailout as of 500 kph airspeed
- If pilot bails and the plane/parts subsequently hits his parachute, it will destroy it just like enemy fire.
- In the initial phase of bailout, there is a very rough algorithm that produces the images - hence the funny behaviour. I have seen pilots pass through rotating propellers. (cant help having shivers in my spine!)
I believe the current level of development is more than adequate! Remember first time you saw it? I was amazed by the amount of work put into such a secondary element! They land, run, or splash on the ground.
I would rather vote for one more flyable plane as opposed to a more sophisticated bailout.
Love this sim. S to all

JG27_Dacripler
01-04-2004, 03:58 PM
Kind of try "catapulting" him out.. Ya know, a quick vertical move while popping a nudge on the stick forward while pushing eject and then a nudge of the stick forward....Or.. even the flop upside down outta control and just fall out. Hard to do without wings or elevator though!

azpilot
01-04-2004, 04:10 PM
It would be sotra nice to have all the pilot animations CFS 3 has like the swimming and limping if the pilot is wounded (that was the ONLY thing that sim did right)
I am now convinced that all the pilots in IL-2 are related to Jesus since they can run on water (happend in the middle of the ocean when i ditched)

VonShlagnoff
01-04-2004, 04:35 PM
I Bailed out once and free fell faster than my plane, my chute opened and my spiralling fighter fell on me knocking my chute out causing me to roman candle to the deck!

Bearcat99
01-04-2004, 09:10 PM
This ws one tof the things I like about IL2.. the fact that centrifugal force could keep you from bailing out. It is like tha in FB still though not as intense but still..I have had the problems bailing out too.. especially in a flat spin.

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essemm
01-04-2004, 09:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...there was no way on earth a pilot pulling high g's (over 1 to 2g's) was ever going to manage to lift his little finger from his joystick let alone reach his arms up above his head to pull the cockpit hatch, slide the cockpit frame behind him, unbuckle the seat harness and to finally get his head out into the slipstream to be whisked out to safety.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You think 1 or 2 Gs is a lot? Well...1 G is the regular force of gravity, so if you can't withstand that much...you have no bones and should seek help.

2 Gs is simply 2 times the force of regular gravity, ie 2*9.8m/s squared. That means that something that weighs 10 pounds or so (oh, say for instance, an arm) would weight 20. If you can't lift something that weighs 20 pounds, I must reiterate, you should see a doctor or at least sign up for your local Gold's Gym.

I agree that yes, at high G loadings it would be very unlikely for a pilot to manage to escape his cripled aircraft, but I guarentee that this massive incapacitating force is NOT witnessed at a simple 2 Gs. My car (which is a VW Golf GTI) accelerates at over 2 Gs. I could dance the can-can at 2 Gs.

I am sure by "high Gs", you mean 4 or so and on up...eh friend?

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Rajvosa
01-05-2004, 03:02 AM
essemm - As a fellow owner of a Golf GTI, I salute you! Care for a race? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

Rajvosa
01-05-2004, 03:09 AM
There is one other thing about bailing out that makes me mad - it's way to easy to get captured. I mean, it's not logical, if you happen to land 1 m inside enemy teritory, that's it, You've had it! How realistic is that? It's almost as if enemy teritory was packed with soldiers and there was no way you could find a quiet place to land on... It REALLY sucks! I think twice before engaging bombers now, depending of how far the battle line is.

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

jamieandnici
01-09-2004, 01:47 PM
essemm,

Okay point taken, maybe I was overreacting to 1 or 2 g's, or rather undereacting, but the point I was trying to make was simply bailing out of a striken a/c was impossible to those pilots who found their a/c suddenly wing less or was spirally out of control with such ferocity it was impossible to bail out.

PS I hope the cops dont catch you doing the can - can, especially on the motorway!!...its bad enough being caught holding a mobile phone whilst driving nowadays, let alone dancing in your car....i'm surprised the Golf has got so much space to be able to do that sort of thing in it!!! bloody VW drivers!!!!!

Zeus-cat
01-09-2004, 10:26 PM
Just a quick physics lesson here. There is no such thing as centrifugal force as mentioned by Bearcat. What everybody calls centrifugal force is actually something called centripetal force and is in the opposite direction that everybody thinks centrifugal force is.

Everybody has swung a bucket filled with water and said "centrifugal force keeps the water in the bucket." Actually, the force acting on the water is not forcing the water away from you it is pulling the water towards you. A similar principal applies to the space shuttle in orbit around the earth. If gravity didn't constantly pull it towards the earth as it traveled around the earth, it would just fly away from the planet.

Centrifugal force is just a pet-peeve of mine.

Zeus-cat

jamieandnici
01-10-2004, 05:00 AM
Excellent physics lesson Zeus cat!!

You learn something new every day, thanks for that remember that one chaps when you come crawling back from a mission and have to tell your CO what happened and the reason you couldn't bail out in time it was ------centripetal------- not --------centrifugal----------!!

No wonder I failed miserably at science!!! and making excuses!!!

NegativeGee
01-10-2004, 05:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
Just a quick physics lesson here. There is no such thing as centrifugal force as mentioned by Bearcat. What everybody calls centrifugal force is actually something called centripetal force and is in the opposite direction that everybody thinks centrifugal force is.

Everybody has swung a bucket filled with water and said "centrifugal force keeps the water in the bucket." Actually, the force acting on the water is not forcing the water away from you it is pulling the water towards you. A similar principal applies to the space shuttle in orbit around the earth. If gravity didn't constantly pull it towards the earth as it traveled around the earth, it would just fly away from the planet.

Centrifugal force is just a pet-peeve of mine.

Zeus-cat<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, Pseudo-forces suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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AirBot
01-10-2004, 05:19 AM
Actually, centrifugal force does exist, depending on whether your reference is an inertial or a non-inertial system. Take for example a cube, placed on a rotating disc and tied with a string to the disc's center.
An outside observer sees the cube moving at a certain velocity across the perimeter of the disc, and interprets that the force exerted on the cube by the string keeps modifying the direction of the cube's velocity - keeping it on the perimeter of the disc instead of allowing it to fly off of it.
However, to an observer placed on the same rotating disc - as an observer from a non-inertial system - the cube will appear to remain stationary, altough the string is obviously still tense and thus still exerting a centripetal force on the cube. According to Newton's first law, there must be an equal and opposite force to the centripetal force, balancing the centripetal force and thus keeping the cube stationary. The observer thus "makes up" the centrifugal force - which, to him, appears quite real.
As the pilot inside a spiraling plane - as in Bearcat's example - is an observer from a non-inertial system, the centrifugal force is quite real for him.

People who diss centrifugal force are just a pet-peeve of mine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
Just a quick physics lesson here. There is no such thing as centrifugal force as mentioned by Bearcat. What everybody calls centrifugal force is actually something called centripetal force and is in the opposite direction that everybody thinks centrifugal force is.

Everybody has swung a bucket filled with water and said "centrifugal force keeps the water in the bucket." Actually, the force acting on the water is not forcing the water away from you it is pulling the water towards you. A similar principal applies to the space shuttle in orbit around the earth. If gravity didn't constantly pull it towards the earth as it traveled around the earth, it would just fly away from the planet.

Centrifugal force is just a pet-peeve of mine.

Zeus-cat<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

jamieandnici
01-10-2004, 05:39 AM
Christ, this is getting too deep for my liking......science yuck!!......shooting down planes and getting shot down Hooray!!!......Thanks for the A'level science lessons chaps but what was the question again...!!!? LOL!!