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View Full Version : Request to the Devs: Hood toggle immersion



Kiroku
07-18-2017, 12:55 AM
Please Ubi devs go for a button that allows the player to toggle the hood on and off without being in the menu with an animation.

It will be so much better for the immersion !

For example being in a city talking with an NPC about a quest I want to have the hood off. Accepting the quest and going out to the wildlands I want to take on the hoods. When I successfully finished the quest and riding with the horse to the city where the mission started I want to take the hood off again because its something like a "safe zone" where people are allowed to see my face.

Instead one have to go to the menu before entering the city and toggle it off. It would feel like a load screen :(

So please:

1. toggle hood on/off with a button without being in the menu
2. animation how to take on and off the hood. And it should be available while walking and riding on a mount like a horse or camel.

This would be super awesome !

rawr012
07-18-2017, 07:29 AM
I second this. I was so excited when I heard about the hood toggle but after seeing it was an option in the menu rather than a simple button press I was rather disappointed. Make it happen please Ubisoft, for the good of the immersion!

Fatal-Feit
07-18-2017, 09:06 AM
At the moment, I don't think there's a way to introduce a hood toggle button to gamepad without sacrificing comfort. All of the buttons are used up. MAYBE LS click could work.

RT/HOLD - Heavy Attack/Charged Attack / Shoot Ranged Weapon / Accelerate Eagle
RB - Light Attack


Y - Interact
B - Parkour Down/Swim Down / Dismount
X - Roll
A - Parkour Up/Swim Up


LT/HOLD - Free Aim Bow / Station Eagle
LB - Toggle Shield / Aimlock


LS/HOLD - Normal/Eagle/Mount Movement / Animus Pulse
RS/Click/Hold - Camera / Crouch / Pass Time


D-pad Up - Eagle / Exit
D-pad Down/Hold - Whistle / Mount
D-pad Left/Hold - Switch Ranged Weapon / Equip Tool
D-pad Right/Hold - Switch Weapon / Draw/Holster Torch


Start - Quest Log
Select - World Map
On kbm, however, they could definitely make it happen.

Kiroku
07-18-2017, 12:12 PM
At the moment, I don't think there's a way to introduce a hood toggle button to gamepad without sacrificing comfort. All of the buttons are used up. MAYBE LS click could work.

RT/HOLD - Heavy Attack/Charged Attack / Shoot Ranged Weapon / Accelerate Eagle
RB - Light Attack


Y - Interact
B - Parkour Down/Swim Down / Dismount
X - Roll
A - Parkour Up/Swim Up


LT/HOLD - Free Aim Bow / Station Eagle
LB - Toggle Shield / Aimlock


LS/HOLD - Normal/Eagle/Mount Movement / Animus Pulse
RS/Click/Hold - Camera / Crouch / Pass Time


D-pad Up - Eagle / Exit
D-pad Down/Hold - Whistle / Mount
D-pad Left/Hold - Switch Ranged Weapon / Equip Tool
D-pad Right/Hold - Switch Weapon / Draw/Holster Torch


Start - Quest Log
Select - World Map
On kbm, however, they could definitely make it happen.

What if they use a combination of two buttons to toggle it?

I dont know exactly how the xbox controllers work but something like pressing the L3 or R3 stickor maybe both. Another method could be to just press one button long enough like press the triangle button for 3 seconds and there we go with our lovely hood?

jdowny
07-18-2017, 01:11 PM
They could always hold a button down to produce a different response. There are ways to do it.

cawatrooper9
07-18-2017, 02:23 PM
(epic trailer voice)

They were the movement that rocked a nation.

When the world said "No", they stood up and asked "Why not?"

They ARE the Knights of the Hood Toggle...

2!

Electric Boogaloo!

Seriously though, here we go again... :rolleyes:

onzirTbu
07-18-2017, 04:40 PM
meh

Kiroku
07-18-2017, 06:28 PM
(epic trailer voice)

They were the movement that rocked a nation.

When the world said "No", they stood up and asked "Why not?"

They ARE the Knights of the Hood Toggle...

2!

Electric Boogaloo!

Seriously though, here we go again... :rolleyes:

If I understand correctly there has been a request about this in the past?

But even if so, why shouldnt we ask for it? The arguments are still viable :confused:

cawatrooper9
07-18-2017, 07:16 PM
If I understand correctly there has been a request about this in the past?

But even if so, why shouldnt we ask for it? The arguments are still viable :confused:

Yeah, there is a 51 page thread about it (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1305341-Assassin-s-Creed-Syndicate-Hoods). People were... passionate... about it.

And you can ask for whatever you want, of course. If you're curious, the developers have specifically stated that, while they saw the passion the community wanted for such a toggle, they didn't consider it feasible for the button to take up its own space on the controller mapping.

So, while I think that it's cool that Origins is addressing something that many fans clearly want, I don't think that they should sacrifice actual gameplay elements to allow for an aesthetic element that was previously already available but only through an in game menu due to peripheral limitations. But that's just me.

Kiroku
07-18-2017, 11:46 PM
Yeah, there is a 51 page thread about it (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1305341-Assassin-s-Creed-Syndicate-Hoods). People were... passionate... about it.

And you can ask for whatever you want, of course. If you're curious, the developers have specifically stated that, while they saw the passion the community wanted for such a toggle, they didn't consider it feasible for the button to take up its own space on the controller mapping.

So, while I think that it's cool that Origins is addressing something that many fans clearly want, I don't think that they should sacrifice actual gameplay elements to allow for an aesthetic element that was previously already available but only through an in game menu due to peripheral limitations. But that's just me.

Damn thanks for the source! This is huge.

The question I ask myself is do they really sacrifice something for it? Must be so because if not they would easily just go for it without the menu. In AC Syndicate ofc. they just did it for sneak mode.

I guess we will see how it goes. Maybe they can find a way to do it without which would be great. If not we have to deal with it.

LoyalACFan
07-19-2017, 10:54 AM
After a week of severe weather in my hometown (I'm talking hurricane-force winds, massive property damage, downed trees... the works, people), local cable and power service in my area has been down intermittently for the last several days. So, imagine me, after a bit of an enforced hiatus from the Internet while the hardworking heroes of Spectrum Cable Service toiled ceaselessly to restore my wi-fi freeway to the Ubisoft Forums, opening my laptop to find...

Round 2 of the mother-fracking Hood Toggle Debacle.

I feel I owe each of those heroes a personal apology.

cawatrooper9
07-19-2017, 02:40 PM
Damn thanks for the source! This is huge.

The question I ask myself is do they really sacrifice something for it? Must be so because if not they would easily just go for it without the menu. In AC Syndicate ofc. they just did it for sneak mode.

I guess we will see how it goes. Maybe they can find a way to do it without which would be great. If not we have to deal with it.

No problem, man. And yeah, the controller's pretty busy already.

You can check out a picture of the controller map (https://twitter.com/_Turul_/status/875061029071343616), posted by the Twitter account Turul (https://twitter.com/_Turul_/media).


After a week of severe weather in my hometown (I'm talking hurricane-force winds, massive property damage, downed trees... the works, people), local cable and power service in my area has been down intermittently for the last several days. So, imagine me, after a bit of an enforced hiatus from the Internet while the hardworking heroes of Spectrum Cable Service toiled ceaselessly to restore my wi-fi freeway to the Ubisoft Forums, opening my laptop to find...

Round 2 of the mother-fracking Hood Toggle Debacle.

I feel I owe each of those heroes a personal apology.

You know you love it. (Welcome back!)

Sorrosyss
07-19-2017, 08:07 PM
They could always hold a button down to produce a different response. There are ways to do it.

This. A hold modifier is an easy fix.

RVSage
07-19-2017, 09:09 PM
Yes, the hood toggle real time, will be a neat addition, and yes hold modifier can go the trick

WendysBrioche
07-20-2017, 04:52 AM
Damn thanks for the source! This is huge.

The question I ask myself is do they really sacrifice something for it? Must be so because if not they would easily just go for it without the menu. In AC Syndicate ofc. they just did it for sneak mode.

I guess we will see how it goes. Maybe they can find a way to do it without which would be great. If not we have to deal with it.

I know one of the in game buttons allows you to fast forward to night time.

Personally I think that button could be better used for the hood toggle, not sure anyone would care if time change stayed in the menus.

I'm fine with it either way though. I'm just glad they have it honestly.

Kiroku
07-20-2017, 12:27 PM
I know one of the in game buttons allows you to fast forward to night time.

Personally I think that button could be better used for the hood toggle, not sure anyone would care if time change stayed in the menus.

I'm fine with it either way though. I'm just glad they have it honestly.

Well I think if they really want to give hood toggle a button (if hold button or just a simple tap on it doesnt matter) they would have done that.

I remember back when I was an active member on the witcher 3 boards while playing the game. A lot of people were complaining about the inventory because of the sh*t loads of unsorted stuff mixed together. Well after some time passed CDPR just brought an update to fix that. All of a sudden the items you can collect were sorted with filters and categories. And they did the same with the overall character interface and also gave Geralt an option in the menu to walk dynamic or just like he did before. The option was called "alternate movement" or so.

So what I want to say is that maybe if they dont have the time to go for it right now then maybe in the future when the game itself is released. Since they dont go for an anual release anymore - which I really hope because if a game is in development and gets all time it needs to develop properly then it will be a masterpiece - they could take some time to really work on the issues of AC Origins when its out and bring several patches and also an improved hood toggle option I and likely some others are asking for.

I mean at the end we as the fans and players of the franchise have to do our job too. We want Ubisoft to make great AC games. And what defines a great AC game is a vision of fans and developers how the game should look like. If we constantly work on ideas and talk about imrpovements together with the dev team and even criticize some actions then everyone can benefit from it.

Fatal-Feit
07-20-2017, 02:00 PM
I know one of the in game buttons allows you to fast forward to night time.

Personally I think that button could be better used for the hood toggle, not sure anyone would care if time change stayed in the menus.

I'm fine with it either way though. I'm just glad they have it honestly.

I'd much rather keep a mechanic that actually affects gameplay over something cosmetic for someone's immersion. Hood toggle does absolutely nothing and why it's such a requested feature, I will never understand, but being able to change the time of day is an incredible feature for stealth and open world games.

BananaBlighter
07-20-2017, 02:17 PM
I know one of the in game buttons allows you to fast forward to night time.

Personally I think that button could be better used for the hood toggle, not sure anyone would care if time change stayed in the menus.

I'm fine with it either way though. I'm just glad they have it honestly.

Well I definitely don't want them to remove that mechanic, but yes it actually would make more sense if the hood toggle was there and changing the time of day was done through the menu rather than the other way round which is what we have right now. That said, there is still space on the controller to do both without going into the menu. Like maybe Animus Pulse could be clicking in L3 while holding it would hood toggle. I'm not desperate for a hood toggle, but being able to have the hood down in public and up in stealth really does add to the immersion.

crusader_prophet
07-20-2017, 04:28 PM
I can't wait to make some hilarious gifs when the animation glitches out with this hood toggling. While the story and narrative falters in the past few games, I'm more worried about immersion breaking from hood toggle. Lol. Priorities amongst gamers. Never stops amusing me.

Kiroku
07-20-2017, 04:31 PM
I'd much rather keep a mechanic that actually affects gameplay over something cosmetic for someone's immersion. Hood toggle does absolutely nothing and why it's such a requested feature, I will never understand, but being able to change the time of day is an incredible feature for stealth and open world games.

The Day/Night feature wouldnt vanish. It just goes to the menu.

But for even more immersion you can actually delete it and go for some spots in the world were you can just lay down and sleep for an amount of hours you can select. Interacting with a tent or blanket like in skyrim or tomb raider on a hill or somewhere save then choose the hours you want to pass and there you go. ;)

cawatrooper9
07-20-2017, 04:44 PM
The Day/Night feature wouldnt vanish. It just goes to the menu.

But for even more immersion you can actually delete it and go for some spots in the world were you can just lay down and sleep for an amount of hours you can select. Interacting with a tent or blanket like in skyrim or tomb raider on a hill or somewhere save then choose the hours you want to pass and there you go. ;)

I'm with the people who put gameplay over aesthetics on this one. Switching between day and night isn't just about wanting it to be brighter. As every NPC has their own schedule, these switches can change where they can be found. This also applies to targets of assassination, which is huge.

I think that the ability to do that on the whim (not in a menu or having to trudge to a campsite) is pretty important.


That being said, one of the biggest reasons people requested a hood toggle is because there were two big camps in Syndicate- those who wanted their Assassination to always have his hood up the old fashioned way, and those who liked the different aesthetic of the hood down/weren't bothered by the hood being down. Once you set the hood how you like, either of these camps should have been okay with what we have now.

WendysBrioche
07-21-2017, 04:54 AM
I'd much rather keep a mechanic that actually affects gameplay over something cosmetic for someone's immersion. Hood toggle does absolutely nothing and why it's such a requested feature, I will never understand, but being able to change the time of day is an incredible feature for stealth and open world games.

Well, I mean in some of the previous games hood toggle was connected to stealth mode.

If they wanted to get really in depth with it as a feature there could be any sort of stealth or detection bonus activated when the player dons the hood in game.

You could be walking around the city, maybe
if the guards were on alert like the old notoriety system, an informed or aware civilian might recognize your face if you're not wearing the hood.

Most of us want it cause it's cosmetic sure.

But it's not entirely true that it has to be a useless feature in terms of gameplay or social stealth- there are potential uses, in terms of things like civilian crowds and armed guards and service men who've never heard of the Assassin order.

Fatal-Feit
07-21-2017, 11:09 AM
The Day/Night feature wouldnt vanish. It just goes to the menu.

But for even more immersion you can actually delete it and go for some spots in the world were you can just lay down and sleep for an amount of hours you can select. Interacting with a tent or blanket like in skyrim or tomb raider on a hill or somewhere save then choose the hours you want to pass and there you go. ;)

No, thank you. Like I said, I'd rather keep a mechanic that actually affects gameplay mapped than one that doesn't. Also, having to scout and use specific spots to change time of day would be rather inconvenient and ruin the point of the mechanic. There is a reason why MGSV and WT3 lets you access the mechanic anywhere.


Well, I mean in some of the previous games hood toggle was connected to stealth mode.

If they wanted to get really in depth with it as a feature there could be any sort of stealth or detection bonus activated when the player dons the hood in game.

You could be walking around the city, maybe
if the guards were on alert like the old notoriety system, an informed or aware civilian might recognize your face if you're not wearing the hood.

Most of us want it cause it's cosmetic sure.

But it's not entirely true that it has to be a useless feature in terms of gameplay or social stealth- there are potential uses, in terms of things like civilian crowds and armed guards and service men who've never heard of the Assassin order.

In that E3 build, it doesn't provide any differences and honestly, I'd rather than have hood toggle be tied to stealth mode if there has to be one. Two separate modes for stealth seems rather unnecessary and annoying and it's probably why the devs tied hood toggle with other systems in previous games.

Kiroku
07-21-2017, 12:12 PM
I'm with the people who put gameplay over aesthetics on this one. Switching between day and night isn't just about wanting it to be brighter. As every NPC has their own schedule, these switches can change where they can be found. This also applies to targets of assassination, which is huge.


I think that the ability to do that on the whim (not in a menu or having to trudge to a campsite) is pretty important.


That being said, one of the biggest reasons people requested a hood toggle is because there were two big camps in Syndicate- those who wanted their Assassination to always have his hood up the old fashioned way, and those who liked the different aesthetic of the hood down/weren't bothered by the hood being down. Once you set the hood how you like, either of these camps should have been okay with what we have now.

Ofc its huge. I prefer gameplay over aesthetics too. But I dont see the negativity of changing it because the possibility for different assassinations at different times and places wont be affected by changing it?

I dont exactly understand why its important to have it like in witcher 3 actually.

Yeah its not that it would ruin the game if they wont change it. Dont get me wrong. Its just for immersion reasons. And since its an action RPG now some people just want such games to be as fluid as possible to feel like a whole complete world without interruptions.



No, thank you. Like I said, I'd rather keep a mechanic that actually affects gameplay mapped than one that doesn't. Also, having to scout and use specific spots to change time of day would be rather inconvenient and ruin the point of the mechanic. There is a reason why MGSV and WT3 lets you access the mechanic anywhere.


In that E3 build, it doesn't provide any differences and honestly, I'd rather than have hood toggle be tied to stealth mode if there has to be one. Two separate modes for stealth seems rather unnecessary and annoying and it's probably why the devs tied hood toggle with other systems in previous games.

Why would it ruin the mechanic? Because you have to go to the place and sleep and go back where your target is? You actually have to locate him anyway. At least I think thats how it works since targets move around the world depending wether its day or night etc. BUT even IF it would ruin the mechanic for whatever reason Ba Yek could be able to place his blanket almost everywhere and sleep where the player wants and not at some specific places.

cawatrooper9
07-21-2017, 04:47 PM
Ofc its huge. I prefer gameplay over aesthetics too. But I dont see the negativity of changing it because the possibility for different assassinations at different times and places wont be affected by changing it?

I dont exactly understand why its important to have it like in witcher 3 actually.

Yeah its not that it would ruin the game if they wont change it. Dont get me wrong. Its just for immersion reasons. And since its an action RPG now some people just want such games to be as fluid as possible to feel like a whole complete world without interruptions.



I understand. Basically what it breaks down to is, even with holding, the controller has only so many buttons. We all have our own priorities. Ash did say that there would be at least one other controller configuration (one more attuned to "classic" AC controls). It's a long shot, but maybe that scheme will have a toggle button for you guys somehow.

Xstantin
07-22-2017, 12:00 AM
Time forward > hood toggle

I'm all about aesthetics (like using garbage weapons in Unity cause they look better) but hood toggle is such a minor thing imo

WendysBrioche
07-22-2017, 06:17 AM
No, thank you. Like I said, I'd rather keep a mechanic that actually affects gameplay mapped than one that doesn't. Also, having to scout and use specific spots to change time of day would be rather inconvenient and ruin the point of the mechanic. There is a reason why MGSV and WT3 lets you access the mechanic anywhere.



In that E3 build, it doesn't provide any differences and honestly, I'd rather than have hood toggle be tied to stealth mode if there has to be one. Two separate modes for stealth seems rather unnecessary and annoying and it's probably why the devs tied hood toggle with other systems in previous games.

Well you could do a single tap to take the hood on and off, double tap for stealth mode.

Like high profile and low profile in the previous games.

I personally believe one of the biggest problems with Origin's control scheme is the removal of triggers as high profile climbing/sprinting buttons.

Since we've lost functionality on those buttons when not climbing, there's a lot less that can be done in terms of mapping functions.

I mean you've got heavy melee and light melee attacks on two separate buttons, ranged functions on the triggers as well.

I mean that goes back to again thinking it's a mistake to swap out AC controls to make them like other typical rpgs.

The problem with that is you can't do it without running in to problems like this cause there's an essential signature difference between AC and other rpgs like TW3 Wild Hunt, Souls, or TES.

AC let's you climb up and down buildings, and you need control functions to enable that functionality.

Switching combat functions to triggers in that way limits the ability to use other buttons for other purposes when not in high profile mode.

I hope this doesn't sound rantish. I'm a bit tired and my verbal thinking is like bluehhhh.

But like ya. Um. Brain. Um.

I think for like melee, if they kept combat mapped to the buttons abxy on Xbox and triangle square and such on playstation,

They have like 3 melee functions now, tap X for light attack, hold X for heavy, if you kept high profile on right trigger you could still hold that and just press X for a "high profile charged attack".

Maybe the legacy controls might handle things in some way like that, or something similar.

But that's why I thought the right trigger high profile button was always important for this game, I keep forgetting.

But ya on the hood, I think it might be a cool feature in future games. A lot of people want it. Or I mean taking it on off in game.

But I'm glad they at least have the feature in the customization menus, that's big.

Fatal-Feit
07-22-2017, 03:37 PM
Why would it ruin the mechanic? Because you have to go to the place and sleep and go back where your target is? You actually have to locate him anyway. At least I think thats how it works since targets move around the world depending wether its day or night etc. BUT even IF it would ruin the mechanic for whatever reason Ba Yek could be able to place his blanket almost everywhere and sleep where the player wants and not at some specific places.

The mechanic exists for convenience. Players could also stay and wait maybe 20 minutes in real time for immersion, but that's boring and impractical compared to a time of day changing mechanic.


Well you could do a single tap to take the hood on and off, double tap for stealth mode.

That doesn't sound very intuitive at all. The last thing they should do is mess with any stealth related buttons. Maybe holding D-pad Up could work since players tap to use and leave Senu.

As for the controls, I disagree. The removal of high/low profile buttons allowed the devs to move from keeping the controls being restrictive and contextual. It offers a lot more freedom and gives players the ability to access everything at any moment, like being able to attack without having to be in lock-on mode or aim our bow while being in combat. Compare the control scheme in Origins to any of the previous games. We have almost twice the actions and all of it is accessible 100% of the time.

WendysBrioche
07-26-2017, 01:38 PM
The mechanic exists for convenience. Players could also stay and wait maybe 20 minutes in real time for immersion, but that's boring and impractical compared to a time of day changing mechanic.



That doesn't sound very intuitive at all. The last thing they should do is mess with any stealth related buttons. Maybe holding D-pad Up could work since players tap to use and leave Senu.

As for the controls, I disagree. The removal of high/low profile buttons allowed the devs to move from keeping the controls being restrictive and contextual. It offers a lot more freedom and gives players the ability to access everything at any moment, like being able to attack without having to be in lock-on mode or aim our bow while being in combat. Compare the control scheme in Origins to any of the previous games. We have almost twice the actions and all of it is accessible 100% of the time.
Not so much.

Being able to attack while not in lock on mode? Doesn't make a difference.

High profile mode only changed that in regard to high profile attacks. The same that is done in Origins can still be done with the use of a high profile button.

We could always aim our ranged weapons during combat, it was typically tied to one of the left triggers, high profile on the right, and we could always use ranged weapons while sprinting.

Nothing is made available that wasn't or couldn't be with having a high profile button available.

The only area where a difference could possibly be made would be if the game were to let you use your ranged weapons while climbing structures, during the climbing animations themselves, which I dont think is very important. But even then, you could probably still do it.

Video games that require more controls than are available on a controller, or gamepad, always achieve greater functionality and usage by dedicating a few buttons to change the functionally of other buttons, giving the buttons available access to a greater range of different functions.

Look at everything Star Citizen can achieve by using using this kind of control scheme.

Getting rid of this hogs up space on the controller.

Time of day could easily be in the menus, or with buttons changing functionality, there would be more room.

For any game that has a higher amount of functions than there are buttons on a controller, this is essential.

Getting rid of the high profile button isn't really a good idea. There was never a need to revamp AC's controls, especially not if it places limitations on the range of functions available.

Fatal-Feit
07-27-2017, 09:17 AM
Being able to attack while not in lock on mode? Doesn't make a difference.

In the hack and slash genre, or more specifically, the Soulsborne/Souls-like titles, which is where the combat seems to be taking huge inspiration from, the ability to unlock is a handy tool. While lock-on allows players to focus on the enemies in front of them, unlocked allows players to take control the fight in different ways. It allows players to quickly and manually attack from any direction without needing to toggle between enemies at the sacrifice of their defense. It offers more mobility, which in itself is useful for various things, such as trying to escape, controlling the distance of the enemies for long ranged players, and it's convenient for experts like speedrunners who studied the ins and outs of the enemy AIs and doesn't need to rely on lock-on.


High profile mode only changed that in regard to high profile attacks. The same that is done in Origins can still be done with the use of a high profile button.

We could always aim our ranged weapons during combat, it was typically tied to one of the left triggers, high profile on the right, and we could always use ranged weapons while sprinting.

Nothing is made available that wasn't or couldn't be with having a high profile button available.

The only area where a difference could possibly be made would be if the game were to let you use your ranged weapons while climbing structures, during the climbing animations themselves, which I dont think is very important. But even then, you could probably still do it.

In previous titles, there were no high profile attacks, only high profile assassinations, which are still in Origins, but executed through sprint speed this time.

[EDIT] That's possible in BF/Ro, but in Syndicate, players can't free aim during combat mode. Players had to exit the combat space to free aim. Origins removed combat mode entirely and made everything accessible from the get-go. My problem here is not just about high profile, but how contextual the old control schemes were. Also, animals are no longer QTE battles.

The High/Low Profiles system have been around since the series have begun, but it was never anything special. They're inconsistent throughout the games and don't provide any advantages to the controls we have now in Origins. You say there's nothing they can't do with High/Low Profiles that they already do now, but the fact that they're doing more without them is my point.

You might believe some controls have been made less functional or deep, but it's the opposite. Want to walk, jog or sprint? Tilt the analog to your liking. Perform "High Profile" assassinations? Tilt the analog all the way while performing the action. Want to parkour at maximum speed? Hold parkour or parkour down with your analog tilted to the max. They simply removed a button that didn't need to be there.


Video games that require more controls than are available on a controller, or gamepad, always achieve greater functionality and usage by dedicating a few buttons to change the functionally of other buttons, giving the buttons available access to a greater range of different functions.

Look at everything Star Citizen can achieve by using using this kind of control scheme.

Getting rid of this hogs up space on the controller.

Time of day could easily be in the menus, or with buttons changing functionality, there would be more room.

For any game that has a higher amount of functions than there are buttons on a controller, this is essential.

Getting rid of the high profile button isn't really a good idea. There was never a need to revamp AC's controls, especially not if it places limitations on the range of functions available.

Removing the High/Low Profiles system didn't create less space on the controller, as I said before, we have more actions and freedom than ever, and all of it is accessible at once.

Origins:

RT/HOLD - Heavy Attack/Charged Attack / Shoot Ranged Weapon / Accelerate Eagle
RB - Light Attack


Y - Interact
B - Parkour Down/Swim Down / Dismount
X - Roll
A - Parkour/Swim Up


LT/HOLD - Free Aim Bow / Station Eagle
LB - Toggle Shield / Aimlock


LS/HOLD - Normal/Eagle/Mount Movement / Animus Pulse
RS/Click/Hold - Camera / Crouch / Pass Time


D-pad Up - Eagle / Exit
D-pad Down/Hold - Whistle / Call Mount
D-pad Left/Hold - Switch Ranged Weapon / Equip Tool
D-pad Right/Hold - Switch Weapon / Draw/Holster Torch


Start - Quest Log
Select - World Map


Blag Flag:

RT/HOLD - High Profile / Free Run
RB - Island Information


Y - Quick Tool
B - Interact
X - Assassinate
A - Fast Walk / Jump


LT/HOLD - Free Aim
LB - Reload


LS/Click - Move / Eagle Vision
RS/Click - Camera / Center Camera


D-pad Up - Melee Weapon Select
D-pad Down/Hold - Melee Weapon Select
D-pad Left/Hold - Tool Select
D-pad Right/Hold - Tool Select


Start - Pause Menu
Select - World Map


Syndicate:

RT/HOLD - High Profile
RB - Rook Management


Y - Quick Tool
B - Interact / Parkour Down
X - Assassinate
A - Crouch / Parkour Up


LT/HOLD - Free Aim
LB - Rope Launcher


LS/Click - Movement / Eagle Vision
RS/Click - Camera / Center Camera


D-pad Up - Medicine
D-pad Down/Hold - Whistle
D-pad Left/Hold - Tool Select
D-pad Right/Hold - Tool Select


Start - Main Menu
Select - World Map / Progression Log
As you can see, nothing was held back. High Profile's main innovation was towards notoriety, not so much the controls. And since Social Stealth is not in Origins, a High/Low Profile system does not need to exist.

WendysBrioche
07-28-2017, 12:42 PM
In the hack and slash genre, or more specifically, the Soulsborne/Souls-like titles, which is where the combat seems to be taking huge inspiration from, the ability to unlock is a handy tool. While lock-on allows players to focus on the enemies in front of them, unlocked allows players to take control the fight in different ways. It allows players to quickly and manually attack from any direction without needing to toggle between enemies at the sacrifice of their defense. It offers more mobility, which in itself is useful for various things, such as trying to escape, controlling the distance of the enemies for long ranged players, and it's convenient for experts like speedrunners who studied the ins and outs of the enemy AIs and doesn't need to rely on lock-on.



In previous titles, there were no high profile attacks, only high profile assassinations, which are still in Origins, but executed through sprint speed this time.

[EDIT] That's possible in BF/Ro, but in Syndicate, players can't free aim during combat mode. Players had to exit the combat space to free aim. Origins removed combat mode entirely and made everything accessible from the get-go. My problem here is not just about high profile, but how contextual the old control schemes were. Also, animals are no longer QTE battles.

The High/Low Profiles system have been around since the series have begun, but it was never anything special. They're inconsistent throughout the games and don't provide any advantages to the controls we have now in Origins. You say there's nothing they can't do with High/Low Profiles that they already do now, but the fact that they're doing more without them is my point.

You might believe some controls have been made less functional or deep, but it's the opposite. Want to walk, jog or sprint? Tilt the analog to your liking. Perform "High Profile" assassinations? Tilt the analog all the way while performing the action. Want to parkour at maximum speed? Hold parkour or parkour down with your analog tilted to the max. They simply removed a button that didn't need to be there.



Removing the High/Low Profiles system didn't create less space on the controller, as I said before, we have more actions and freedom than ever, and all of it is accessible at once.

Origins:

RT/HOLD - Heavy Attack/Charged Attack / Shoot Ranged Weapon / Accelerate Eagle
RB - Light Attack


Y - Interact
B - Parkour Down/Swim Down / Dismount
X - Roll
A - Parkour/Swim Up


LT/HOLD - Free Aim Bow / Station Eagle
LB - Toggle Shield / Aimlock


LS/HOLD - Normal/Eagle/Mount Movement / Animus Pulse
RS/Click/Hold - Camera / Crouch / Pass Time


D-pad Up - Eagle / Exit
D-pad Down/Hold - Whistle / Call Mount
D-pad Left/Hold - Switch Ranged Weapon / Equip Tool
D-pad Right/Hold - Switch Weapon / Draw/Holster Torch


Start - Quest Log
Select - World Map


Blag Flag:

RT/HOLD - High Profile / Free Run
RB - Island Information


Y - Quick Tool
B - Interact
X - Assassinate
A - Fast Walk / Jump


LT/HOLD - Free Aim
LB - Reload


LS/Click - Move / Eagle Vision
RS/Click - Camera / Center Camera


D-pad Up - Melee Weapon Select
D-pad Down/Hold - Melee Weapon Select
D-pad Left/Hold - Tool Select
D-pad Right/Hold - Tool Select


Start - Pause Menu
Select - World Map


Syndicate:

RT/HOLD - High Profile
RB - Rook Management


Y - Quick Tool
B - Interact / Parkour Down
X - Assassinate
A - Crouch / Parkour Up


LT/HOLD - Free Aim
LB - Rope Launcher


LS/Click - Movement / Eagle Vision
RS/Click - Camera / Center Camera


D-pad Up - Medicine
D-pad Down/Hold - Whistle
D-pad Left/Hold - Tool Select
D-pad Right/Hold - Tool Select


Start - Main Menu
Select - World Map / Progression Log
As you can see, nothing was held back. High Profile's main innovation was towards notoriety, not so much the controls. And since Social Stealth is not in Origins, a High/Low Profile system does not need to exist.
Well my point still stands, removal of buttons that alter the functions of others limits everything you can do in a game to the amount of buttons available on the controller/gamepad.

If you want more functionality in a game, you need methods that can alter the functions of what's there, or else in game mini menus for inventory and item, tool, or weapon swapping.

Anyone willing to accept a reasonable argument would agree.

But I don't argue in circles, gonna have to settle for the laughable "agree to disagree" so common to this kind of silly debating.

As for Syndicate, I've honestly never tried free aiming in that game. But it was indeed possible in Unity. Typically though, it's never a good idea to used ranged aiming in melee combat, and factors that change that aren't exclusively dependent on the presence or lack thereof of something like ACs high profile mode on the triggers.

cawatrooper9
07-28-2017, 02:52 PM
Alright, so the controller map discussion is interesting, but it makes one huge assumption: "If one more feature would be added to the controller, it would be a hood toggle".

Sorry to the fans of the hood toggle, but I don't think we can make that assumption. Cool as a toggle would be, I think that it's probably further down the priority line on things that could be mapped to the controller than we think.

Fatal-Feit
07-28-2017, 05:06 PM
I don't think we're going in circles.


As for Syndicate, I've honestly never tried free aiming in that game. But it was indeed possible in Unity. Typically though, it's never a good idea to used ranged aiming in melee combat, and factors that change that aren't exclusively dependent on the presence or lack thereof of something like ACs high profile mode on the triggers.

As I said in my last post, the problem comes from the restrictive, contextual design of the control schemes in the previous games. Understanding the rules for High/Low Profiles is confusing (esp since the devs change them EVERY GAME) and the system can sometimes become limiting when designing new systems (I'm looking at you, AC3-Ro's parkour), which are why the devs continued to design mechanics and control schemes around it. Anyway, free aim was not possible during combat in Unity; it works similarly to Syndicate.


Well my point still stands, removal of buttons that alter the functions of others limits everything you can do in a game to the amount of buttons available on the controller/gamepad.

If you want more functionality in a game, you need methods that can alter the functions of what's there, or else in game mini menus for inventory and item, tool, or weapon swapping.

Anyone willing to accept a reasonable argument would agree.

But I don't argue in circles, gonna have to settle for the laughable "agree to disagree" so common to this kind of silly debating.

You have two points. Buttons that gives access to other actions being practical, like a Weapon Wheel, which I do agree with depending on the design (one click for hood toggle and two clicks for crouch is an example of what I disagree with), and then there's defending the High/Low Profiles system. Using the former as an argument for the latter doesn't work because the latter doesn't provide richer controls.