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Mather94
07-13-2017, 12:11 AM
Hi everyone!

As it seems the game will take place in a all solar system (maybe more), how to make the space attractive to avoid travel from a planet to an other in straight line. I want a space with unique places so it takes hours to travel between two planets because the space makes you curious about all the things around you. Here are some ideas :

- ghost space ships that could be a start of side quests
- space animal - like the whales in the first BGE
- asteroid belt with precious metal to collect while running from dangerous animals (for example)
- space cloud (not sure about the translation sorry)
- spatial station to collect sun energy (very popular among thieves)
- some mysterious objects
- construction site for the biggest ships
- ...

What do you think?

Legion-495
07-13-2017, 10:02 AM
I wonder how fast you can go in space without the friction and gravity(If that leaves enough room).
But the game needs SpaceStations. If there is anything we learned from SciFi games like MassEffect(DeadSpace, etc.) then we need SpaceStations.
If MassEffect Andromeda would have had more SpaceStations it would be way better(We only had the Arks). Closed enviroments so to say even if the game goes huge scale. It really pushes the "in spaaaace (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myEOJaNMQZo)" feeling if you ask me^^

Just my opinion^^ And I'm not saying ME:A was good game kay?^^

P1nKR4Bb1t
07-13-2017, 07:06 PM
Just wanted to +1 Space whales, its become a meme in a certain other game but i feel like the tone and lore of BGE fits the "giant space animal" theme more.

Star Wars Clone Wars/Rebels does an excellent job at portraying space fauna, I'd love something similar in BGE

WhitecladGoth
07-16-2017, 07:54 PM
How fast you can go in space?

There's a popular misconception in the relevant video, actually. Friction isn't the main issue. Profile drag is the main thing at low speeds. If you drop a ful brick and a half brick out of a window, the full brick hits the ground first.

1) You had your hands level and the bricks dangling from your hands, so the bottom of the full brick is nearer the ground already.

2) The full brick has twice the weight and twice the mass to accelerate, so anyone teaching classes of under-16s will say they'll accelerate at the same rate and hit at the same speed at the same time, but the full brick has twice the profile drag and less than twice the friction drag face-on or edge-on and twice the friction drag and only the same profile drag end-on, so if they're tumbling or staying end-on as they fall it'll have less air resistance at any given speed and reach a higher terminal velocity (http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/newtlaws/Lesson-3/Free-Fall-and-Air-Resistance).

That's a side-note, though. The misconception is that the friction's a big deal. Friction's taking some air with you as you go. It's pushing the air out of the way that takes the most energy and momentum out of you.

When you see a ship re-entering atmosphere, it's the front that gets hot, not the sides (http://web.utk.edu/~comet/courses/reentry.html).

http://web.utk.edu/~comet/courses/images/shuttleentryart.gif

http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Shefex_DLR4X3.jpg

The air can't flow out of the way fast enough at those speeds, so it gets compressed. Compressing air heats it up. That's why things get so hot on re-entry. Want a familiar example? Belly-flop off the high board. You can roll into a pool and the water'll flow around you. You can go in feet-first or hands-first to create a sharp wedge shape so the water doesn't have to move all that fast to let you by, and get away with going in from the side or quite high up. Go in flat, though, and the water just can't flow round you so instead of a smooth "gloop" you get a "slap" impact on the water.

According to upenn.edu (https://www.physics.upenn.edu/nineplanets/medium.html),
The temperature of the interplanetary medium is about 100,000 K. Its density is about 5 particles/cm3 near the Earth and decreases by an inverse square law farther from the Sun. However, the density is highly variable, it can be as much as 100 particles/cm3.

Though very tenuous, it has measurable effects on the paths of spacecraft.

According to some website I found (http://www.softschools.com/formulas/physics/air_resistance_formula/85/),
http://www.softschools.com/formulas/images/air_resistance_formula_1.png

Now, that density is very low compared to the 5.3 * 1019 particles per cm3 at sea level, but note the "velocity2" part of the formula. Alright, that formula's probably meant for subsonic velocities, but let's use it. Boeing 777 cruise speed is 892 km/h, getting close to trans-sonic shock-wave effects that airlines prefer to avoid. At twice that speed, 1884 km/h, you'd have 4 times the air resistance. At ten times that speed, you'd have 100 times that resistance. We're looking at 10-19 times the particle density and 1/7.2 times the particle mass, so we can get up to 7.2 * 1019 times as much v2 for the same resistance. That's 8.5 * 109 times the velocity, or 7.6 * 1012 km/h. That's 2.1 * 1012 m/s and there's no way we can go that fast.

Why not?

Well, you know kinetic energy is half the mass times the square of the velocity, KE = 0.5mv2, right? Wrong. Turns out your teachers missed a bit out. There's an extra bit that doesn't really matter most of the time. When we talk about a car's speed, we're making some approximations because we don't know the depth of the tread in the tyres, the temperature of the wheels, the temperature of the components in the speedometer and so on. If we're looking at rifle ammunition, the cases were made by a machine, the bullets were made by a machine, the powder was weighed out by a machine and those machines' temperatures change, their lubrication needs topping up, the Moon going by changes the local strength of gravity, the metal supplied varies in purity and so on and those factors all affect the ammunition produced, so those rounds aren't identical, and if you fire ten of them out of one rifle to measure their velocities the rifle gets hot and sooty in use and that affects them too. The barrel heats up and expands, the bullets spread out more to fill it, giving them more surface area at the back, more resistance around the circumference, lower sectional density and ... you get the picture. There's variation. If we're looking at a comet in a Deep Impact scenario, we have grainy long-lens photographs of it. We may know exactly where and when they were taken, but we only have whatever we have, x6000 magnification and a 48MP sensor or whatever, looking through atmosphere. We can't zoom in indefinitely. We don't know exactly where it is, which way it's going, how fast it's going, how big it is and what it's made of. You're not going to calculate the evacuation zone and go with it, are you? You add a margin for "we're not sure" that's ... well, if you're evacuation a 100km radius you'd add the rest of any town that radius touches, at least. That's +1%, a whole one percentage point.

The bit your teachers missed out: c / ( c - v ). KE = 0.5 * m * v2 * c / ( c - v ). Bein' as c is 299792458 m/s, a very large number, and could blow your head clean off, they left that out of the classroom, and that's fine because for any sensible terrestrial value of v that term works out to 1. Let's try it.

Things with 4 kgm/s of momentum:
1.6t light truck, 2.5 mm/s: 0.005 J * 1.0000000000083391
800kg small car, 5 mm/s: 0.01 J * 1.0000000000166782
100kg man on bike, 4 cm/s: 0.08 J * 1.0000000001334256
8kg bowling ball, 0.5 m/s: 1 J * 1.0000000016678205
2kg 2l drink bottle, 2 m/s: 4 J * 1.0000000066712819
1kg bag of sugar, 4 m/s: 8 J * 1.0000000133425640
100g ball, 40 m/s: 80 J * 1.000000133425656
16g .45 bullet, 250 m/s: 500 J * 1.000000833910933
8g .357 bullet, 500 m/s: 1 KJ * 1.000001667823258
4g 5.56 bullet, 1 km/s: 2 KJ * 1.000003335652078
2g .22 bullet, 2 km/s: 4 KJ * 1.000006671326410
1g .22 airgun pellet, 4 km/s: 8 KJ * 1.0000133427418343
0.5g .177 airgun pellet, 8 km/s: 16 KJ * 1.0000266858397309
0.25g speck of grit, 16 km/s: 32 KJ * 1.0000567091119247

It's not a term worth calculating for most applications, see? That guy on the bike could change his speed with the rocket-effect of a sneeze and make more difference than that term. For GPS systems and things like that, though, it matters. For space speeds, it gets more important pretty fast, too.

At v = 0.01c, a mind-boggling 6.7 million miles per hour, c / ( c - v ) = 1.0101
At v = 0.1c, c / ( c - v ) = 1.1111
At v = 0.2c, c / ( c - v ) = 1.25
At v = 0.25c, c / ( c - v ) = 1.3333
At v = c/3, c / ( c - v ) = 1.5
At v = 0.5c, c / ( c - v ) = 2
At v = 0.75c, c / ( c - v ) = 3
At v = 0.8c, c / ( c - v ) = 4
At v = 0.9c, c / ( c - v ) = 10
At v = 0.95c, c / ( c - v ) = 20
At v = 0.97561c, c / ( c - v ) = 40
At v = 0.99c, c / ( c - v ) = 100
At v = 0.995c, c / ( c - v ) = 200

Increasing v by 5.0505051% there increased v2 by 10.1265177%, which is true at any velocity, but because it was close to c already it doubled that last term, so KE increased by 110.1265177%. That extra 3.35 million miles per hour more than doubled the kinetic energy to 1.267 * 1020 J/2kg. U235 used in nuclear weapons has an energy density of "only" 1.44 * 1012 J/kg, so you've got 4 * 107 more energy in your ship than there is in that stuff. What were you using as fuel, and how? Bear in mind you've got to accelerate your remaining fuel up to speed too (https://what-if.xkcd.com/21/).

There's another limit to consider, as long as we're staying inside the star system: time. For linear acceleration, distance = 0.5 * a * t2. If you're flying the 384400 km from Earth to the Moon with linear acceleration for half the distance, then flipping your ship around to slow down again before you get there, 0.5 * 384400000 = 0.5 * a * t2, so for an impressive (and inconvenient) 20 m/s2 of acceleration 384400000 = 20 * t2, t2 = 19220000 s2, t = 4384 s and your maximum velocity is 87681 m/s or 315652 km/h.

One more limit: you do not want to smack into a 100m chunk of iron-rich asteroid at that speed. How long does it take you to accelerate a ship sideways enough to miss it? How long do you have? If you're doing 1 km/s and you see that rock at 5 km, you've got 5 s in which to move at an average of 20 m/s sideways to avoid it. With 20 m/s2 of acceleration, that's not hard. If you're doing 100 km/s, though, you've got 0.05 s in which to do something about it. On a 20fps "Let's Play" video, that's from one frame to the next. Human reflexes are how good (https://youtu.be/ZypGUP4IBME?t=12)? Frequently not good enough (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac-u0XYVs-U), and the faster you go, the bigger the mess.

Legion-495
07-17-2017, 08:39 AM
You take that too serious.

"Vehicles each have 5 velocity settings, e.g. ranging from 10 to 120 km/h for the jetpack. The acceleration between these is dependent on the "character attributes" of the vehicle. Overall speeds may range from 4 to 1 million km/h." It's a german source (http://www.gamestar.de/artikel/beyond-good-evil-2-wir-haben-es-gesehen-und-sind-fasziniert,3315699.html).
But it seems 1 million km/h is a game limitation.

What we have. Ancel just said in Engine showoff that you can go way faster in space without the friction from the planet and gravity, which makes sense^^. We should not overcomplicate things.
Even so do we know if physics still apply the same way(Like we know a lot but not everything)? Chances are there have been breakthroughs in spacetravel... obviously.
And the ships might have a AI like Secundo. Also chances are that since there are hybrids, humans are also modified.


If we go the route of confronting a game with reality, it wont work out for like 95% of the games xD and the maybe last 5% being Simulators^^

WhitecladGoth
07-17-2017, 06:49 PM
You dare to call this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqjW0PfmJUA) and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-YxelohJwY) and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkS05ayRwv8) and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGJjVZAXvPc) and even this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgvcY0hm4xo) unrealistic? Sacrilege!

Legion-495
07-19-2017, 09:19 AM
Indeed :D

harithinakal
07-20-2017, 05:26 AM
they should also include space battles........i mean intresting space battles not like no mans sky more like assasins creed black flag naval battles but in space :cool::cool::cool:

WhitecladGoth
07-22-2017, 01:48 PM
Dogfights like in original Wing Commander (left, right, up, down, five speeds and fire) but with better graphics, dogfights like in Star Wars (copied straight from the Battle of Britain and War in the Pacific), dogfights like in Elite (roll and pitch like a plane but without gravity and lasers) or dogfights like in Babylon 5 (vectored thrust, offset thrusters to rotate around three axes, main thrust to accelerate forwards, conservation of momentum and all that good stuff), though?

Legion-495
07-22-2017, 06:49 PM
Dogfights like in original Wing Commander (left, right, up, down, five speeds and fire) but with better graphics, dogfights like in Star Wars (copied straight from the Battle of Britain and War in the Pacific), dogfights like in Elite (roll and pitch like a plane but without gravity and lasers) or dogfights like in Babylon 5 (vectored thrust, offset thrusters to rotate around three axes, main thrust to accelerate forwards, conservation of momentum and all that good stuff), though?

After its out you have another one for the list.
Dogfights like BGE2...

WiwarK9
07-22-2017, 10:40 PM
After its out you have another one for the list.
Dogfights like BGE2...

Yup some people tend to forget that BGE already had a dogfight system but if we could really make the campaign with a friend i see a gameplay like Crash tag team racing, one on the wheel while the other is shooting it would be awesome.

Edit: oups i didn't read well i tought you said dogfight like BGE.

Legion-495
07-22-2017, 11:01 PM
Yup some people tend to forget that BGE already had a dogfight system but if we could really make the campaign with a friend i see a gameplay like Crash tag team racing, one on the wheel while the other is shooting it would be awesome.

Edit: oups i didn't read well i tought you said dogfight like BGE.

Still true tho. Maybe BGE2 dogfight is like BGE. Who knows?^^

WiwarK9
08-03-2017, 02:28 PM
They clan also add an in-ship view mode and do a gameplay similar to faster than light were you have to repair thé damage done to your ship by dispatching your crew to different sector.

Legion-495
08-03-2017, 02:55 PM
They clan also add an in-ship view mode and do a gameplay similar to faster than light were you have to repair thé damage done to your ship by dispatching your crew to different sector.

I really do not see a value in that. I see autopilot as option and since we are able to go in the ships insides a opportunity to have small talk with the crew and minigames appear as option to me.
Sleep/save option for anyone who wants it to be fast?

WiwarK9
08-03-2017, 04:02 PM
I really do not see a value in that. I see autopilot as option and since we are able to go in the ships insides a opportunity to have small talk with the crew and minigames appear as option to me.
Sleep/save option for anyone who wants it to be fast?

Have you played faster than light ? Imagine if there is a battle between mother ships and not only you have to manage to take down the other one but also to manage the damage they deal to you it would be so much mure interessting and thrilling.

Legion-495
08-04-2017, 12:58 AM
Yes I do own FTL. And I really do not see that working a lot out with BGE2. And if I would expect AI to handle it clever anyway.
I see like Subnautica style repair as a thing since we have a 3D game here or going in slight direction of StarTrek Bridge Crew very simplified so that it works out if you hold a button or two,

But to be real. We will probably have a third person perspective on the space vehicle in any of those situations... just like BGE1^^

WhitecladGoth
08-04-2017, 06:15 PM
They clan also add an in-ship view mode and do a gameplay similar to faster than light were you have to repair thé damage done to your ship by dispatching your crew to different sector.

This sounds a lot like Artemis, the Star Trek bridge simulator we were playing for a few months before Star Trek bridge Simulator came out. It's a great game for five or six people with four or five tablet computers linked to one main computer acting as server and a large TV acting as the main screen. It relies heavily on the captain being a good combat pilot and knowing the ship, one the rest of the crew doing what they're told and on crisp, clear communications between crew members, with the other four or five effectively being extra eyes, ears and fingers of the captain. Consoles can't handle more than four people logging in, not everyone has the space and hardware to set that up, voice chat in games tends to lag by a few seconds, people won't want to be "scanners and comms" for some total stranger and to do it all yourself would require the whole thing to be slowed down quite a lot.

WiwarK9
08-04-2017, 06:37 PM
not everyone has the space and hardware to set that up, voice chat in games tends to lag by a few seconds, people won't want to be "scanners and comms" for some total stranger and to do it all yourself would require the whole thing to be slowed down quite a lot.
While i believe we will not be tagged with random stranger. There could be only 1 man in charge of the mothership while the others are dogfighting with smaller spaships, and i see it as something simple like: go here repair that, go use this artillery etc etc

Legion-495
08-04-2017, 09:28 PM
However it seems unlikely to have micromanagement in the game and for me it does not fit the game at all.
Well that said I hope we just have BGE1 style travel with masseffect talking to crew.

Ship AI does the rest^^

To me what you want seems to overcomplicate things if you ask me.

WiwarK9
08-04-2017, 10:25 PM
To me what you want seems to overcomplicate things if you ask me.
Yeah. I guess minigames inside the ship is a better idea.
Hope we can buy some arcade and put them into a special room.

taechan111
08-13-2017, 01:24 PM
since the characters fly with their spaceships there should be a petral station or so where they can buy a booster to speed it or fill up the tank.

Legion-495
08-13-2017, 04:30 PM
since the characters fly with their spaceships there should be a petral station or so where they can buy a booster to speed it or fill up the tank.

I hope we do not get a fuel system^^
I see like buying repairkits. The speed the things go nativ is quite extreme already... maybe booster for city vehicles tho.

Booker-de-Witt
08-17-2017, 05:28 AM
"Random" encounters with NPC's like GTA V. Perhaps a ship from rival group is seen interrupting trade/business or committing crime. At that point the player could derail from their travel and attack, or continue on their way, subtly declining. This could also be a chance to encounter broken/breaking down ships that have rare and random NPC's in need that could end up joining crew, giving info, or paying in supplies and cash. These encounters can end up with more side quests or just a drop off request to their home planet for reward.
Some of them can give trouble too, perhaps they ask for help, come on board, and reveal themselves to be hostile.

Also...Domz in space?