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View Full Version : What's the big deal about the defensive meta?



IesooMI
07-01-2017, 10:16 PM
This is a 100% serious thread, those who just want to cry/flame save your tears. I see it non stop people crying about the defensive meta being too strong but I don't understand why. I mean am I just supposed to stand there and let you hit me? I feel like the major problem is the massively casual player bases wants easy mode and to just spam attacks. It honestly blows my mind how it's so frowned upon. If it's so broken and OP then why don't the people complaining just parry everything then? Oh that's because they can't and want people who've put the time in and learned the mechanics to not be able to because it's "not fair". It's the same people who call zoners cheap in other fighting games.

UbiJurassic
07-01-2017, 10:27 PM
I believe the primary concern is that, when looking at the net benefits , there is a lack of parity between defensive and offensive play. Defensive plays offers little risk and high rewards, while offensive plays involves heavy risk and unlikely rewards.

Arekonator
07-01-2017, 11:14 PM
Because it leads to situation where you never want to attack first because attempting to attack gets heavily punished.
Which leads to matches (mostly duels) turning into staring contest. It sometimes goes to the point where people dont even attempt to parry, just go for safe attacks that are hard to punish.
Also most people who complain about it are not complaining because they are unable to win, but simply because it leads to boring gameplay.

Rikuto01.tv
07-01-2017, 11:45 PM
Console 1v1 is my preferred mode of play specifically because there is more input delay present in the console versions, and this increases the likelihood of attacks actually landing.

Normally you'd think what a joke, right? But no, it actually improves the gameplay for dueling. For 4v4 I still prefer PC as there are enough factors in team play to crack a persons shell open.

When they normalized guard stance switch delay, I think it would have been wiser to increase the delay for most characters rather than shorten it.

AzureSky.
07-02-2017, 02:12 AM
I believe the primary concern is that, when looking at the net benefits , there is a lack of parity between defensive and offensive play. Defensive plays offers little risk and high rewards, while offensive plays involves heavy risk and unlikely rewards.

Thats if you know how to parry and recognize what attacks are a feint and whats not.

BUT when you go over that level you get into a point were the true def meta exist, characters with no openers or dodgable openers become really unsafe and other characters begin to shine.

IMO heavy parry needs a nerf in the form of a more harder to do timing, the same with counter guard break, its just too easy to do.

Also i think you shouldnt break the "flow" of this game, a paper, rock, scissor style with reactable and punishable moves, so if you are good you can roll over other players until you get to your level, thats what i initially liked in this game, i only encountered one turtle in my 1vs1 games, Why? because i play raider, i eat turtles for lunch (since all the people try to parry the side heavy or unblockable and you can just do the stunning tap)

But the real turtle exist when he can react to that and just parry the stunning tap, but when you get to that lvl the ammount of players is really low (Btw i can parry all the 500 ms light attacks almost 80% of the time, based on network quality)

So, weres the turtle meta? on the people that dont know the use of feint.


Just nerf the heavy parry last frames (reduce them) and reduce the last frames of the cgb timing too, this way people will get to open up players in normal and low elo and people in high and very high elo can still counter guard break.

SirCorrino
07-02-2017, 02:48 AM
The Defensive Meta is ONLY a problem in 1v1/2v2. It is in no way an issue in 4v4 modes due to the ability of teammates to come to your aids or just leaving the turtling enemy on his own and going off to fight someone else. So I'm very afraid that whatever they do to address that in 1v1/2v2 is going to have a serious negative effect on 4v4 modes and the ability of some heroes to effectively defend a point. I seriously hope they give as much thought and effort into making the Def Meta patch not break 4v4 as they have done making Cent's EXTREMELY NECESSARY nerfs not affect him in 1v1.

Tyrjo
07-02-2017, 08:38 AM
IMO heavy parry needs a nerf in the form of a more harder to do timing, the same with counter guard break, its just too easy to do.


Someone else suggested that CGB should cost slightly more stamina than GB. Either lower GB cost or raise CGB by a little bit. That way a turtle would eventually run out of stamina. The hypothesis is that this change would force more offensive play.

Tyrjo
07-02-2017, 08:39 AM
Console 1v1 is my preferred mode of play specifically because there is more input delay present in the console versions, and this increases the likelihood of attacks actually landing.


I agree here. I rarely face turtles in 1vs1 on PS4.

frostlord30
07-02-2017, 09:02 AM
I have an Idea to fix defensive meta. when you block attacks you lose stamina. once you lose stamina your block bar runs out as fast as the shinobi's and you get damaged through blocks the damage that will hit you will be 1/5 of the original attack damage. so lets say you block a light for 25 damage you would only take 5 damage. You cant block light hits as in they act as heavies. so that makes you have to dodge. I forgot to add in how much stamina you lose, you would lose half the amount of stamina as the damage. to clear this up if someone does a heavy for 50 you lose 25 stamina. if someone does a light for 25 you lose 13 stamina (rounded). So it makes you have to dodge or parry. For gaurd breaks you only get lights. for a heavy to land for anyone you have to throw them on a wall. parries should be a bit better with this. so this is my Idea of fixing the defensive meta tell me what you guys think