PDA

View Full Version : LSOs?



-HH-Dubbo
04-01-2004, 05:17 PM
Are we landing by feel or will we have LSOs? Just curious as to how it will be implemented.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/Postersm.jpg
On average, you will forget 80% of everything you read today, within 24 hours.

-HH-Dubbo
04-01-2004, 05:17 PM
Are we landing by feel or will we have LSOs? Just curious as to how it will be implemented.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/Postersm.jpg
On average, you will forget 80% of everything you read today, within 24 hours.

JG7_Rall
04-01-2004, 08:07 PM
That would be awesome! *crosses fingers*

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/InGallantCompany.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

luthier1
04-01-2004, 08:17 PM
We still don't know yet. Actually putting a guy in there who'd move paddles around based on your flight path is not that difficult. However the thing is, if we put a normal sized guy with paddles on the deck, even at a decent resolution and all details maxed out you won't be able to tell what the hell he's doing until it's pretty much too late. Even at 200 yards he's pretty much indistinguishable in normal view. For me personally, who likes to take-off and land in wide view, I probably won't see him until I decapitate him with my prop http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If anybody's got any bright ideas on making the LOS visible from long distances I'm all ears. We won't do a CFS-style picture-in-picture though, that'd steall all your FPS just when you need them the most.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

necrobaron
04-01-2004, 08:21 PM
Some people may not like this suggestion,but perhaps you could have an icon of some kind over the guy,that indicates more clearly his paddle movements? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

fordfan25
04-01-2004, 08:28 PM
mabie just keep it simple.It wouldnt be reilistic but mabie on one side of the screen have a small pair of padels or just have the words like to high or to fast.its not ground breaking but it would work

luthier1
04-01-2004, 08:35 PM
I may be too much of a realsim nazi, but I really don't want to have something like magic fairy dust paddles floating around your cockpit and stuff like that.

To be honest with you guys, I kind of question the gameplay value of those paddles altogether. Sim pilots have nowhere near the stress of the real pilots, they don't fly missions of the same duration and don't get tired nearly as much, information and instruments are much more accessible to you, etc. I think they LSOs would just be there for cosmetic purpose - maybe only useful in wave-off situations. Other than that, I think you're either perfectly capable of landing on a carrier on your own, or you can't land with or without the LSO either way.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

necrobaron
04-01-2004, 08:44 PM
Perhaps you're right,Luthier. I do,however,think an effort should be made to make the virtual environment seem more "alive" than what FB is now. For example, airfields in FB seem fairly barren and lifeless. I know there are far more relevent things that need to be done,and they should take precedence over cosmetic touches,but I don't think "visual and immersive fluff" should be entirely ignored. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

clint-ruin
04-01-2004, 08:45 PM
The little man? keep him little.

The little paddles? Keep them little too, but make them super bright, like big coloured flares on the deck. Like a combination of guy with paddles + meatball.

If you wanted to get clever about it, make the luminescence of the paddles configurable between "handheld nuclear device" and "real man".

Second way to think of doing it is like the FB network "lag" metre with just a variable length set of LEDs that change in colour and number [long yellow bar = too fast, short red bar = too low and too slow, middle length green bar = fine] to show height as a colour and length as speed.

heywooood
04-01-2004, 09:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by luthier1:
I may be too much of a realsim nazi, but I really don't want to have something like magic fairy dust paddles floating around your cockpit and stuff like that.

To be honest with you guys, I kind of question the gameplay value of those paddles altogether. Sim pilots have nowhere near the stress of the real pilots, they don't fly missions of the same duration and don't get tired nearly as much, information and instruments are much more accessible to you, etc. I think they LSOs would just be there for cosmetic purpose - maybe only useful in wave-off situations. Other than that, I think you're either perfectly capable of landing on a carrier on your own, or you can't land with or without the LSO either way.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with a caveat.. have the LSO or"paddles" walk over to your plane after the landing.. maybe in a cut scene or or whatever you call it, where he comes over and says " ok" or "fair" or "do that again and I'll KILL you"

Chuck_Older
04-02-2004, 10:39 AM
My understanding of this is that the way a plane would approach the carrier is that the aircraft is almost always in a turn- the fly-by would be on the starboard side, then a circuit around the ship counter clockwise, then the the rear. I forget where I read that, but I want to say this is how USN pilots landed.

Without the LSO, in a real plane, you wouldn't know if the ship is heaving, or if you should get a wave off due to the ship plunging into the trough of a wave (making you miss the wires), or cresting a wave (making you smack the deck) Also, the LSO would give indications to the pilot based on problems we don't have in a sim, I should think. Problems like broken wires, last landed aircraft has fire crews on it and you can't land yet, etc.

Unless you put a little 'popup' in the cockpit (which I don't like either), I suppose the simplest way to "see" the LSO would be with audial and/or text cues, much like the text you get if you change throttle, prop pitch, mixture, drop flaps, etc.

A nice compromise might be to actually have the LSO there for eye candy if nothing else (even if you can't really see him), but also have a 'running commentary' type of text message that tells you just what the LSO is signalling, maybe in an opaque type of text, dead square over the gunsight, in a bright orange or something. SOmething you could still see through, but since you won't be using the gunsight when landing on your own carrier (I hope http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif), an unmistakable location like the gunsight makes sense to me as a place to put the text.

Just a thought

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

F16_Fatboy
04-02-2004, 11:17 AM
http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/PICT0025.jpg

A LSO is absolutely essential for the realism of the game. Make him to scale and ad some radio talk e.g. " Left; Right; Higher; Lower; Faster;Slower; Steady;WAWEOFF". This will be useful when your coocpit looks like this:
http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/PICT0027.jpg

FLSTF
Pictures from the book "Carrier War" Lt. O Jensen USNR Printed 1945.

http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/Album1/sig_fatboy.jpg

mllaneza
04-02-2004, 12:08 PM
Sorry heywoood, the LSO never threatens to kill someone who does something stupid. He doesn't have to, the plane or the weather will take care of that next time the pilot tries a stupid move.

Any LSO goodies at all Luthier, any at all will be fine. I'd *prefer* to see a populated, working carrier, but I'm willing to wait for the BoB engine and 4GHz PCs.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.

-HH-Dubbo
04-02-2004, 12:24 PM
A great thing about the FB engine for carrier ops is that, unlike CFS2 where 99% of the time if you landed incorrectly you just blew-up, PF should allow us to do this...
http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/carrieravenger.jpg
should we screw up. I like Chuck_Older and F16_Fatboy's suggestion. It's going to be hard to judge if your approach is too low, especially if you fly with the cockpit on. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

One other question is whether the arrestor hook will have a visual model and whether the player will be able to deploy/retract it?


On average, you will forget 80% of everything you read today, within 24 hours.

[This message was edited by Dubbo2 on Fri April 02 2004 at 12:12 PM.]

VF-10_Snacky
04-02-2004, 01:45 PM
Being former Navy it is important IMO to have a good carrier atmosphere in a Pacific Theatre sim. CFS2 came somewhat close, but not quite there. Along with having LSOs I think you also need to have other traffic on the deck like yellow shirts waving flags at takeoff, other aircraft on deck, aircraft circling the ship in the pattern, the ship itself needs to move with the waves, weather and battle damage to the ship needs to also be a factor.
Sometimes aircraft launched from one ship and were forced to land on another due to battle damage.
If you are going to do a Pacific theatre sim you have to make the carrier environment as realistic as possible. IMO

"Son of a B**ch! That's gonna leave a mark."

JG7_Rall
04-02-2004, 01:53 PM
LSO's definatly should be implimented for "eye candy" and should wave their paddles all about. Who cares if you can't see it, it'll still be there for historical purposes. And maybe, like suggested earlier, the paddles could be a bright color, thus making them easier to see?

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/InGallantCompany.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

eddiewertz
04-02-2004, 03:05 PM
Luthier,

How about some kind of help, a la CFS2, or even a voice and/or text warning that you are too low, too high, abort landing, whatever...but have it a toggle-able feature? Might be helpful to use until one gets the "hang" of carrier landings, then toggle "off" once that skill level is achieved. Either way, can't wait for this one to hit the shelves.

RedDeth
04-02-2004, 03:18 PM
just set up an external view from the vantage point of the flag guy. cycle through your externals till you see him.

but dont do this till your lined up and real close cuz you wont be watching your landing youll be landing by his signals. gotta be real careful with flaps and airspeed doing it !!! ...its just an idea but it would work i think

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://www.alloutwar.com/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1065509034.jpg

Jambock__01
04-02-2004, 04:10 PM
What about radio charts and phrases on the scren?? It could perfectly make LSO work and i'll be very happy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.gavca.com/~conteudo/imagens/bannerghostskies.gif (http://www.gavca.com)

Mitlov47
04-02-2004, 04:21 PM
In Aces of the Pacific, instead of having an LSO on deck, they had a radio guy saying "too low; too high; too far left; too far right; cut engine; abort!!!" (or some combination thereof).

It worked just fine. I suggest using the same.

At 1024x768 resultion and wide view, I guarantee you I will never see an LSO, regardless of the brightness of the paddles. Just think about how small cars and even tanks are until you're right on top of them.

---------------------------

P-63C -- "Jackie's Strength"
P-47D-27 -- "The Happy Phantom"

Eagerly awaiting the SBD Dauntless and F6F Hellcat.

RAC_Pips
04-02-2004, 04:22 PM
Keep in mind guys that the LSO ONLY applies to landing on USN Carriers.

Both the IJNAF and the Rn used a system of landing lights - red and green. Hopefully they too will be included for Carriers of those nations. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mitlov47
04-02-2004, 04:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
just set up an external view from the vantage point of the flag guy. cycle through your externals till you see him.

but dont do this till your lined up and real close cuz you wont be watching your landing youll be landing by his signals. gotta be real careful with flaps and airspeed doing it !!! ...its just an idea but it would work i think
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The last thing you should ever do during your final approach on a carrier is leave your aircraft and cycle through views of friendly objects!!! That will GUARANTEE that you botch your landing.

---------------------------

P-63C -- "Jackie's Strength"
P-47D-27 -- "The Happy Phantom"

Eagerly awaiting the SBD Dauntless and F6F Hellcat.

RAC_Pips
04-02-2004, 04:26 PM
Oh, I just had a thought about how to help the LSO work.

Visually it may be difficult to highlight him at any distance. Still how about having a text message run across the screen that would in essence simulate the LSO communicating by use of his flags? Could be simple eg up down steady, and cut.

Wouldn't harm frame rates. And the pilot in question would still have the problem (and so develop the skill) of having to land by instruction. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Call_me_Kanno
04-02-2004, 04:39 PM
Just put a bright yellow vest on him and have him use paddles colored bright yellow too. Then you got the best chance to see him that the pilots actualy did. After awhile you'll know just where to look to pick him out and be able to reconize any suttle changes you see in the postioning of the paddles.

There is one thing I'd like to also see the LSO do and that's dive into his catch net when I botch an approach and get too close to him...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Kanno/Sig.jpg

Chuck_Older
04-02-2004, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAC_Pips:
Oh, I just had a thought about how to help the LSO work.

Visually it may be difficult to highlight him at any distance. Still how about having a text message run across the screen that would in essence simulate the LSO communicating by use of his flags? Could be simple eg up down steady, and cut.

Wouldn't harm frame rates. And the pilot in question would still have the problem (and so develop the skill) of having to land by instruction. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great idea! How come nobody thought of that before http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

*****************************
Punk Rockers in the UK, they won't notice anyway. They're all too busy fighting for a good place under the lighting~ Clash

heywooood
04-02-2004, 07:13 PM
Man - the more of these you read - and from people who maybe have seen an LSO through a windscreen - the more you realize how difficult to decide:
1) can it be modeled within program constraints?
2) How to best represent the LSO?
3) text or R/T the commands from LSO?
and it seems apparent already that no matter what is eventually done, many won't like it.

mike_espo
04-03-2004, 02:02 PM
Luthier, IJN did not use LSOs. They used a system of lights. The first row was red the second blue and staggered at different heights. The object was to keep the two rows aligned for the proper glide angle of decent, about 5 or 6 degrees.

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

Tully__
04-03-2004, 11:11 PM
For those navies that used them, the lights are a good alternative.

For the USN LSO's how about applying the FB navigation light effect to the paddles, you can see that for several km's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)

Salut
Tully

luthier1
04-03-2004, 11:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
For the USN LSO's how about applying the FB navigation light effect to the paddles, you can see that for several km's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but the range of motion for those paddles would be about a foot each way. Yes you would see the magical raver glowstick paddles three miles away, but they would just appear stationary to you for most of the way.

Put a stationary camera at the runway threshold and record yourself landing from 3-4 km away with lights on - in daylight. Waggle your wings a little bit all the time. Watch the track in Normal view and see how close the plane gets to you before you can distinguish what your wings are doing - then compare the plane's wingspan to the size of a normal human.


P.S. As you can hopefully tell I went through all these tests myself a while ago http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
04-03-2004, 11:34 PM
I'm with Luthier on this one. No LSO grafix or landing aids. Lights....maybe.

I can live with the barren airfields of FB, if the Devs spend time making actual frontline combat environment more alive. The combat environment needs Dev time more than Peacetime training sim.

Do we know if PF carriers will pitch with the sea? I don't care, once off the ship you must think about the mission, and that is where the game is.

heywooood
04-04-2004, 12:08 AM
Well I can see from Luthier and Tully's posts you guys are concerned about this aspect of the sim (paddles) and judging by player posts rightfully so..

What about mapping an FOV that locks a close-up view - like the padlock - only its a closeup of your LSO ! so you get close to the carrier - you press your "padlock paddles" key
- see paddles- toggle back to regular view and so on I can handle a couple of rapid toggle views like that and who knows - maybe the more times you do it - the longer you can hold the "padlock paddles" on to get real help from the guy? .. or maybe we will just land on our own but its nice to know that he's there if I want to see him. huh? huh? waddya think?

heywooood
04-04-2004, 12:14 AM
yeah yeah - just call it a padlock nearest friendly situation the only thing is - can it padlock and zoom the view also?.. with your program engine thingy majiggler I mean..
is it possible?.. did I help?..

and if you can include text on the HUD like
too low - too high - too far left - too far right - etc to go with the graphic paddler dude?..

luthier1
04-04-2004, 12:14 AM
Sorry, new keys commands or especially no new padlock views for this feature.

Besides how infuriating would this feature be when there is more than one carrier on the map?

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

Tully__
04-04-2004, 12:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
Well I can see from Luthier and Tully's posts you guys are concerned about this aspect of the sim (paddles) and judging by player posts rightfully so..

What about mapping an FOV that locks a close-up view - like the padlock - only its a closeup of your LSO ! so you get close to the carrier - you press your "padlock paddles" key
- see paddles- toggle back to regular view and so on I can handle a couple of rapid toggle views like that and who knows - maybe the more times you do it - the longer you can hold the "padlock paddles" on to get real help from the guy? .. or maybe we will just land on our own but its nice to know that he's there if I want to see him. huh? huh? waddya think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's already a "Padlock friendly ground" assignment, perhaps that could be employed without any extra keymapping....

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)

Salut
Tully

heywooood
04-04-2004, 12:20 AM
grrr .. oh well - like I thought - its a poser.

but a rapid toggle of the button would solve the multiple carrier situation -or you have a padlock paddles key and a return to cockpit key. Ideally - your going to line up on the nearest carrier , right? so pressing paddlock nearest friendly will take you to the one you are lined up on.. but its all moot anyway..

heywooood
04-04-2004, 12:23 AM
Yes !!! Tully !!

So your lined up on the carrier you want to land on - its the closest one now , right? ...
press the padlock key - or toggle it on off on off ya know .. and dudes ! will it work?

yeah I meant the padlock nearest friendly feature you already have ! lil green triangle thinger.. anyway.. can tou make it zoom in and padlock in a program mod?...

LEXX_Luthor
04-04-2004, 12:24 AM
Hey that's not bad heywood.

Toggle Nearest LSO key http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

heywooood
04-04-2004, 12:28 AM
Dude - I didnt want to see the cfs2 graphic unless it was the only way last resort...

I hope it can be done. thanks Lexx dude

heywooood
04-04-2004, 12:38 AM
I know ! make the paddles guy a little bigger than he should be - like Manute Bol or Lurch or whatever - then you can use the padlock next friendly just the way it is! hahaha

I mean if the players would accept it - you know - your game would be p.c. towards the taller people then. giving them jobs and whatnot..

heywooood
04-04-2004, 12:45 AM
guys ? where'd everyone go? hmmm.
wonder if its being discussed ? or discarded. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

heywooood
04-04-2004, 01:09 AM
oops - I just pressed print screen by accident.. damm 8 pages.. guess Ill just drop em in a folder here by my desk.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
04-04-2004, 01:34 AM
discarded http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

heywooood
04-04-2004, 01:45 AM
Tele Taube!!! hahaha - yeah ..
I dont really care, but it sure was fun spitballing.. I hope they come up with something good though - I really didnt like the CFS2 pop-up paddles with the hockey referee jersey.. useless.

heywooood
04-04-2004, 10:08 AM
Actually - after reading the thread again..

It sounds like a damn good idea..

pilot lines up on the carrier..
so if there are more than one, the one he is lined up on should be the nearest one
press the "padlock nearest friendly ground"key
that is already existant in the program..
The pilots head turns and the day-glo green triangle centers on screen capturing the "paddles"
Now, I guess, you programmers need to see if it will work without a zoom? or if you need to make the "paddles" guy larger than life or out of scale slightly? or if will work as is.

then, as you fly closer to the boat, and you are toggling back and forth - its just one key mind you.. it should work.

And one more feature and its already there now..if the pilot loses sight of the padlocked target.. the view automatically centers forward.. so as you come aboard and your padlocked.. as you pass the "paddler".. you lose padlock and head and view of the pilot swing forward automatically.
also - if in bad weather - clouds can obstruct view and the paddles is unpadlocked automatically - so the pilot will have reallistically re-aquire him and re-padlock..

I think this is it. what do other players say?... go try it in FB and you'll see ..

set up a quick mission with FMB.. put a friendly next to a base .. fly an approach..
toggle the "padlock next friendly" F5 key? or F6. and see how well that works.. now a guy is smaller than a truck- but if they model the LSO a little bigger than scale?... or if you can padlock/zoom with one key?... should work.

huggy87
04-04-2004, 10:30 AM
(h)x (cdic) (ok)2

Are they going to simulate the part when paddles comes through your ready room to debrief you. You flew a rails pass, they give you a fair for some BS, and you mutter something about "One-eyed-pig-f***ers" under your breath.

heywooood
04-04-2004, 11:11 AM
Huggy..
nice epithet !

hahah - hey -did I read in another thread that you are current USN carrier pilot?..

Yeah - I'd like a cut scene or whatever the programmers call it just like that .. or at least the Ok or fair or W/O or underlined OK! when its a three wire in inclement weather..whats (cdic)?

But "one eyed pigfu@#er" is good as a pilot response ?.. I'll allow it. hahah

heywooood
04-06-2004, 06:58 PM
thats right.. I bumped it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

heywooood
04-06-2004, 09:49 PM
Ok - It worked really well
Set up a mission in FMB using Brewster buffalo

Set a vehicle w/ waypoints very vlose together at tht taxi turnout at one end of the runway.. keep in mind if you try this - a carrier deck is 100 feet off the surface, the runways are ON the surface..so your viewpoint to the LSO will be better with a real carrier!

So you takeoff - fly a simple return to base
fly an approach - press Shift f-5 as default key or map a key on the J/stick (I did)

the view works perfectly.. and using the zoom key - you could probably make ot the LSO at a very realistic AND usable distance from the carrier. I LIKE it - you try it.. just remember to unpadlock as you touch down..

T_O_A_D
04-07-2004, 02:52 AM
Well if you can't come up with a view then at least have text and voice comms coming in from the LSO Or just use the lights from the other countries ships.

I don't think most of us will mind, We know the limitations of todays technology.

I my self like the padlock thing or have a key that flips to a spcial outside view of the LSO so you can flip back and forth between your pit and him if needed.

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
04-07-2004, 05:38 AM
Sounds like this can work heywooood. Thanks for convincing me.

Just thinking, come in for landing and carrier happens to be at a turning waypoint. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

heywooood
04-07-2004, 09:30 AM
Well it could happen in reality - you get a wave off while the carrier adjusts to wind shifts?..nah .. they are usually under weigh so relative wind is from bow to stern regardless ... well - just go around, Taube

Just hope your tanks have enough juice in 'em.