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View Full Version : With combat going from "looker" to "fun to play", parkour should be next!



Sushiglutton
07-01-2017, 10:31 AM
One of the most exciting things about the upcoming Origin is the overhauled combat system which looks much snappier, gives the player more control, more varied enemies and just a lot more fun to play. I'm sure we can all agree on this! *


With combat getting this sweet treatment I think parkour should be next.Playing Mirror's Edge Catalyst really reminds me how exhilirating great parkour mechanics can be. I've been going back and forth between ME:C and AC:U and the difference in funfactor is enormous. ME:C is so snappy (button tap corresponds to immediate action), such a great sense of momentum and speed, feel of flow when stringing moves together, great ways of blending combat moves and parkour. In contrast AC:U feels slow, unresponsive, onrails, you feel disconected from the character, parkour doesn't transition into other gameplay elements in cool ways.


It's time for a new parkour revolution for AC :D! More interactive objects in the world giving you momentum. The lifts are fun, but why has there been no innovation in this area since Brotherhood? There needs to be like slides, springboards, ziplines, ropeswinging (should be able to cut ropes that are hanging accross the street so you can swing to the other side). Running towards low objects in ME:C allows you to do this awesome springjump. I wanna do air assasination from those. Then we need wallrunning (assassination from wallrunning obviously). Vaulting over low objects should give a tiny momentum boost. And so should rolling.I also wanna go faster.


Make the world pixelated, doesn't matter. I wanna have fun parkour!

*jk.

SixKeys
07-01-2017, 03:42 PM
I agree. I've mentioned before that when it comes to the feel of automation in parkour, I actually don't mind it during certain "special" moves. I love swinging on flower pots around corners, love chasebreakers where the assassin runs through someone's house, love sliding under or vaulting over obstacles without slowing down etc.

Perhaps there could be some sort of momentum system where the quicker/more efficient your parkour is, the more likely the assassin is to start performing cinematic-looking special moves? I'm not talking about big, show-stopping moments, but small, fluid moves that would make the parkour look more graceful than usual.

Let's say there's a row of four chimneys in your path. If you parkour across all four without stopping or stumbling, you gain momentum and when you perform your fifth leap, the assassin does something cool like a backflip before landing. Then you just keep moving and the longer you keep moving without stopping, the more fluid and impressive your freerunning gets. You would still have full control at all times. You could stop any time you wanted to and there would be no glaring bar to fill up on your HUD. Just something the game keeps track of invisibly in the background. Kind of like how in Unity if you performed a controlled descent or base jump, the game would reward you with Assassin points (or whatever they were called). Instead of a physical reward like points, though, the reward would simply be that feeling itself: keeping up the momentum and watch your assassin "learn" increasingly cool, special moves on the go.

Does this sound like a stupid idea or...?

notfunnybro
07-01-2017, 11:27 PM
I think climbing has generally been too easy in the series, like you start out pretty much knowing everything about how to climb and having great grip strength and endurance and speed etc. and I think with the series taking more of an rpg route, it would be cool to improve various stats relating to climbing/running/parkour and learn new skills relating to those and as you improve your stats and skills, you could move with more fluidity and momentum and climb to new places like the top of a tall tower and on new surfaces like rock faces and trees and incorporate attacks into movements like wall running assassinations/attacks and maybe throwing knives during a leap of faith. I think adding new skills and improvable stats would make navigation more engaging and rewarding, and implementing new moves to further integrate stealth, combat, and navigation would make the gameplay more cohesive.

strigoi1958
07-02-2017, 12:07 AM
I loved the parkour in Unity. I'm always for it, obviously, wherever the game is suited for it.

Sigma 1313
07-02-2017, 01:45 AM
I agree, and think that this proposed trilogy would be a great way to revamp the series core pillars. Origins revamps combat, Greece revamps parkour, and Rome build revamps stealth (including the now taken out social stealth). I think Ancient Rome would be a perfect place to revamp the stealth, meaning it would use the same basic combat from Origins and Parkour from Greece. Though this is unlikely, as each game is made by a different team with a different vision, changing gameplay radically between games.To be honest, it makes the games feel very disconnected, because they all go in different direction with the core mechanics. That's a whole 'nother topic though.

LoyalACFan
07-02-2017, 07:38 AM
Eh...

I don't know, I kind of think parkour should be somewhat simplistic. It's the main means of traversal in the game; you don't want simply moving around in the game world to be a challenge, you want it to be easy to learn and control. Compare it to, say, Batman's grapple gun in the Arkham games. One button to shoot a grappling hook, one button to boost, same button to glide after boosting. It's simple, it's elegant, and it gets you from A to B. That's really all I want out of parkour.

ninja4hire10
07-02-2017, 01:03 PM
Exactly what Loyal said, parkour needs to simple, quick, and have a definite flow to it, which is the basis of parkour. Not to split hairs here, but parkour, by definition, is essentially getting from point A to point B in the simplest, most fluid way possible. When you throw in somersaults and back-flips and front-flips, that's free-running (parkour with a little visual sizzle.) I like the fact that when you have the character sprint and you come to an obstacle, one press of a button and the assassin performs a simple turn-vault or a lazy-vault and keeps on truckin'. Unity did a great job of having Arno do top-outs at the top of a climb, something the other games never did so well. I'd like a little more parkour basics thrown in (Kong-vaults for example--a staple of parkour) but still want these done with a simple button press or for them to be automatic, the way Watch_Dogs 2's Marcus did. I've never played the Mirror's Edge series but so far in my book WD2 had the best third-person parkour mechanics in a game I've ever seen.

notfunnybro
07-02-2017, 02:05 PM
In response to LoyalACfan,

I can see what you mean, and maybe the game could benefit from having more options. I think gaining new parkour skills and abilities would work well within the new "skill graph/tree" and would allow for a sense of progression without making it a chore to get around, and for people who enjoy more challenges and realism, I think it would be fun to have optional improvable stats for various things related to parkour like grip endurance, running endurance, jump distance, etc. and as a side note I think it would be cool to have the same sort of thing for combat and stealth. I think having this sort of thing would really make it feel like we are earning the title of master assassin.

Megas_Doux
07-02-2017, 02:46 PM
Eh...

I don't know, I kind of think parkour should be somewhat simplistic. It's the main means of traversal in the game; you don't want simply moving around in the game world to be a challenge, you want it to be easy to learn and control. Compare it to, say, Batman's grapple gun in the Arkham games. One button to shoot a grappling hook, one button to boost, same button to glide after boosting. It's simple, it's elegant, and it gets you from A to B. That's really all I want out of parkour.

I do agree with you here!

If anything animations should be polished to look as fluid as possible and have your character improve interactions both quality and quantity wise but parkour is top notch in comparison of how abandoned and half baked Combat and AI have been.....

pacmanate
07-02-2017, 05:59 PM
Parkour shouldn't be difficult imo, it doesn't need a challenge. To be honest you can do some really REALLY cool chain parkour moves in Unity if you know what you're doing and that takes skill to do and looks flashy.

Sushiglutton
07-03-2017, 10:47 AM
I agree. I've mentioned before that when it comes to the feel of automation in parkour, I actually don't mind it during certain "special" moves. I love swinging on flower pots around corners, love chasebreakers where the assassin runs through someone's house, love sliding under or vaulting over obstacles without slowing down etc.

Yes! If anything there needs to be more moves like this that gives that swoooosh feel, without necessarily being difficult to perform.




Perhaps there could be some sort of momentum system where the quicker/more efficient your parkour is, the more likely the assassin is to start performing cinematic-looking special moves? I'm not talking about big, show-stopping moments, but small, fluid moves that would make the parkour look more graceful than usual.

Let's say there's a row of four chimneys in your path. If you parkour across all four without stopping or stumbling, you gain momentum and when you perform your fifth leap, the assassin does something cool like a backflip before landing. Then you just keep moving and the longer you keep moving without stopping, the more fluid and impressive your freerunning gets. You would still have full control at all times. You could stop any time you wanted to and there would be no glaring bar to fill up on your HUD. Just something the game keeps track of invisibly in the background. Kind of like how in Unity if you performed a controlled descent or base jump, the game would reward you with Assassin points (or whatever they were called). Instead of a physical reward like points, though, the reward would simply be that feeling itself: keeping up the momentum and watch your assassin "learn" increasingly cool, special moves on the go.

Does this sound like a stupid idea or...?

It's not a stupid idea at all, the problem is the bolded part I think. What do you need to do to not stumble? Because as it is now there is no input that impact how you will pass those chimneys. You just hold the stick. What there could be is a tap mechanic. If you tap the X button at the right times you will scale them more gracefully, if you hold you will climb as you do now. Sort of similar to how blocking vs parry works in combat. Holding is safe, tapping gives you benefits. And if you do a few in a row you could be given more momentum and cool moves as a reward as you suggest. Yes?




Eh...

I don't know, I kind of think parkour should be somewhat simplistic. It's the main means of traversal in the game; you don't want simply moving around in the game world to be a challenge, you want it to be easy to learn and control. Compare it to, say, Batman's grapple gun in the Arkham games. One button to shoot a grappling hook, one button to boost, same button to glide after boosting. It's simple, it's elegant, and it gets you from A to B. That's really all I want out of parkour.

I don't think it should be more difficult to get from point A to B. What I would want is:

1) Some simple skill thing you could do like for example correctly tap X/O instead of hold will give you some benefits (see above).


2) Many more interactive objects in the world which gives you a boost. They do not have to be difficult to use at all (think the lifts). But there could be some objects with options that you control wih X/O in a logical way.

Examples:
Horizontal pole: Running towards it holding X indicates that you wanna spring jump to the other side of the street, while holding B that you wanna swing down.

Awnings: If you jump into them holding B the assassin will use his sword to cut through, if you hold X he will bounce.

Vertical poles: Holding X means you will quickly scale them, holding B that you will do a 180 and run in the other direction.

Rope across streets: Run towards them holding B and the assassin will cut the rope and swing down to street level. You could even have set ups so you swing into a windo and crush it.



Just Give it a bit more of a theme park feel without going full Sunset Overdrive obviously. When you run through the city you should be like: "I wanna play with that", rather then "are we there yet?".

SixKeys
07-03-2017, 01:07 PM
It's not a stupid idea at all, the problem is the bolded part I think. What do you need to do to not stumble? Because as it is now there is no input that impact how you will pass those chimneys. You just hold the stick. What there could be is a tap mechanic. If you tap the X button at the right times you will scale them more gracefully, if you hold you will climb as you do now. Sort of similar to how blocking vs parry works in combat. Holding is safe, tapping gives you benefits. And if you do a few in a row you could be given more momentum and cool moves as a reward as you suggest. Yes?

I was thinking in terms of judging the distances correctly - jumping too early would make the assassin grab onto the chimney's ledge instead of landing on top of it, interrupting the chain of successful jumps and resetting the momentum counter. In a similar vein, I love how in AC3 we had the option to do a "superhero landing" by holding the right button at the right time after falling from a tall building. Can't remember if this was in subsequent games, but I don't think so.



I don't think it should be more difficult to get from point A to B. What I would want is:

1) Some simple skill thing you could do like for example correctly tap X/O instead of hold will give you some benefits (see above).


2) Many more interactive objects in the world which gives you a boost. They do not have to be difficult to use at all (think the lifts). But there could be some objects with options that you control wih X/O in a logical way.

Examples:
Horizontal pole: Running towards it holding X indicates that you wanna spring jump to the other side of the street, while holding B that you wanna swing down.

Awnings: If you jump into them holding B the assassin will use his sword to cut through, if you hold X he will bounce.

Vertical poles: Holding X means you will quickly scale them, holding B that you will do a 180 and run in the other direction.

Rope across streets: Run towards them holding B and the assassin will cut the rope and swing down to street level. You could even have set ups so you swing into a windo and crush it.



Just Give it a bit more of a theme park feel without going full Sunset Overdrive obviously. When you run through the city you should be like: "I wanna play with that", rather then "are we there yet?".

Yes! I love how in ACR the corner flowerpots give you two options. Tapping the button makes Ezio swing around the corner, while holding the button makes him swing straight across a gap. In the Forum of the Ox chase mission they took this into account in the level design, so even if you messed up and did something you didn't mean to, you still ended up with a fluid parkour experience. This is something the series could use more of.

Crashing through windows sounds hilarious, BTW. :D

crusader_prophet
07-03-2017, 04:45 PM
I don't mind revamped parkour and challenges during an actual mission (main or side), or tombs/vaults or other dedicated activities. But general world traversal mechanics of parkour should remain simple otherwise it will get annoying.

AnimusLover
07-03-2017, 09:09 PM
imo the best parkour mechanic was Assassin's Creed 1 because it had two things that made climbing satisfying:
1. a sense of danger, that if you put a foot wrong you'd fall right off whatever building you were on.
2. heft. you felt the weight of Altair, you felt his grunts and moans as he hauled himself over a cliff.

The climbing now is too automated and whilst it LOOKS more cinematic, it does not feel good at all.
Syndicate, in particular, was just too floaty and weird.

HDinHB
07-04-2017, 02:28 AM
It's apparent there are two views on free running in AC, like there are two kinds of people who drive cars. Some people just want transportation from point A to point B while some people like to drive. It's obvious the devs have only been listening to the commuters, and leaving the drivers behind. Navigation is supposed to be one of the pillars of Assassin's Creed, but it really isn't, not any more. Free running has become less and less interesting and more and more brainless for the last 5 years. At this rate, it will become little more than just a slow version of fast travel.

There are some good ideas in this thread, but I don't see much interest in making improvements. The chorus of "it's too hard" has drowned out all the other voices. It's interesting, and a bit disappointing, that some of the same people clamoring for more difficult--or at least more interesting--combat, are in favor of mind-numbing navigation. Maybe they can put a switch in the menu to choose between mini-van and sports mode.


Oh well, back to doing what I've done the last several games, hoping to be proved wrong.




http://i.imgur.com/4bNL8c2.png

LoyalACFan
07-04-2017, 06:10 AM
It's apparent there are two views on free running in AC, like there are two kinds of people who drive cars. Some people just want transportation from point A to point B while some people like to drive. It's obvious the devs have only been listening to the commuters, and leaving the drivers behind. Navigation is supposed to be one of the pillars of Assassin's Creed, but it really isn't, not any more. Free running has become less and less interesting and more and more brainless for the last 5 years. At this rate, it will become little more than just a slow version of fast travel.

There are some good ideas in this thread, but I don't see much interest in making improvements. The chorus of "it's too hard" has drowned out all the other voices. It's interesting, and a bit disappointing, that some of the same people clamoring for more difficult--or at least more interesting--combat, are in favor of mind-numbing navigation. Maybe they can put a switch in the menu to choose between mini-van and sports mode.


Oh well, back to doing what I've done the last several games, hoping to be proved wrong.




http://i.imgur.com/4bNL8c2.png

Literally no one has said that parkour is too hard. That's not even the issue at hand. Everyone wants parkour to be engaging, useful, and fun to control. To use your own analogy, we aren't discussing the difference between people who drive a Camry and people who drive a Camaro; a more apt description would be two people who both like Camaros, but one prefers manual transmission and the other prefers an automatic. I'm in the latter category; give me my pony car, but keep the antiquated legwork that distracts from my driving experience.

Hopefully we're still somewhere in the ballpark of Assassin's Creed parkour; that was a long way to go for a forced car analogy :p

HDinHB
07-04-2017, 08:42 AM
Literally no one has said that parkour is too hard. That's not even the issue at hand. Everyone wants parkour to be engaging, useful, and fun to control. To use your own analogy, we aren't discussing the difference between people who drive a Camry and people who drive a Camaro; a more apt description would be two people who both like Camaros, but one prefers manual transmission and the other prefers an automatic. I'm in the latter category; give me my pony car, but keep the antiquated legwork that distracts from my driving experience.

Hopefully we're still somewhere in the ballpark of Assassin's Creed parkour; that was a long way to go for a forced car analogy :p

You know on the internet everything has been said by someone.:rolleyes: I was more paraphrasing than quoting--but you can find complaints about the difficulty of the older games. It certainly doesn't sound like everyone wants free running to be engaging or fun...they just want to get from point A to B. And that's what we've been getting.

It's an apt analogy. I've owned both automatic and manual Camaros, and even driven a Camry too (it was a rental). The experience driving the manual is far superior. But the trend in AC isn't toward any of those choices. Like self-driving cars in the real world, AC is moving toward an autonomous free running experience: soporific and mind-numbing with little or no user interaction. You can already climb any building just by holding the stick up, or clicking the rope-launcher button. We are only one or two steps removed from just clicking a place on the map and watching the Assassin go there.



http://i.imgur.com/4bNL8c2.png

SixKeys
07-05-2017, 12:42 AM
For me AC's parkour has never really been about challenge but about freedom, graceful yet realistic movement and fun. The reason I dislike the parkour since AC3 is because compared to the earlier games, it's more imprecise and too floaty. It has lost the realistic weight it used to have and it's not fun when the game makes decisions for you about where you want to go. If they can address those things by tweaking the animations and putting in more handholds so that we no longer have superhuman jumps, I'll be satisfied. I don't think the way to make parkour more engaging is to make it more difficult because difficulty is not why it was fun in the first place. It was fun because it allowed us to feel like we were skilled and graceful with little effort involved (people like to say the early parkour system was somehow difficult, but it really wasn't, it was just more interactive). I'm trying to figure out how to achieve that feeling with the streamlined controls and animations.

HDinHB
07-05-2017, 04:08 AM
Maybe that's a better way of saying it. I don't need walking around to be "hard," but I would like navigation to be more "interesting" again, especially in the vertical direction. Climbing the tower of Big Ben should have been the biggest thrill in the world but it was just meh. Surprisingly, there were some segments in Rogue that were fun, but they were too short and over almost as soon as they started. It sounds like the only reason they have viewpoints in this game is for nostalgia...maybe they could make those challenging for a change. I'm curious how the tombs will be handled...they say there will be puzzles and mechanisms, but they also say the won't be like the AC2 tombs.

AnimusLover
07-05-2017, 07:50 AM
Whilst I agree that climbing was never "hard", I do think the way it was actually enabled players to *think* about how they were going to get somewhere, whereas now the game does all but put pointy arrows markings on the walls. I think if we did some of AC2 and Brotherhood's tomb climbing puzzles using the parkour mechanics in Unity and Syndicate (without the rope launcher) we'd be bored silly.

Fatal-Feit
07-05-2017, 09:17 AM
Whilst I agree that climbing was never "hard", I do think the way it was actually enabled players to *think* about how they were going to get somewhere, whereas now the game does all but put pointy arrows markings on the walls. I think if we did some of AC2 and Brotherhood's tomb climbing puzzles using the parkour mechanics in Unity and Syndicate (without the rope launcher) we'd be bored silly.

What made these activities fun wasn't so much the parkour system itself. Navigation was easy, so the developers designed ways to make it feel more interesting and interactive around it. They did things such as creating limited, handcrafted pathways and forcing the players to study their surroundings, learning the layout and shortcuts they can create to traverse through the levels. The constant shift in camera perspectives also added to the platforming and gave some great views of the environment. One of my favorite things they did was added some urgency to the levels through either giving players a time limit (usually for 100%) or creating a chase sequence.

Anyway, I do agree with your point and I think SixKeys really summed up my opinion on this thread.

jdowny
07-05-2017, 09:33 AM
For me AC's parkour has never really been about challenge but about freedom, graceful yet realistic movement and fun. The reason I dislike the parkour since AC3 is because compared to the earlier games, it's more imprecise and too floaty. It has lost the realistic weight it used to have and it's not fun when the game makes decisions for you about where you want to go. If they can address those things by tweaking the animations and putting in more handholds so that we no longer have superhuman jumps, I'll be satisfied. I don't think the way to make parkour more engaging is to make it more difficult because difficulty is not why it was fun in the first place. It was fun because it allowed us to feel like we were skilled and graceful with little effort involved (people like to say the early parkour system was somehow difficult, but it really wasn't, it was just more interactive). I'm trying to figure out how to achieve that feeling with the streamlined controls and animations.

Completely agree about parkour post-ACR. But this is why for me Unity was such a massive step in the right direction, giving you control over parkour up and parkour down.

This effectively gave you three sets of movements. Parkour down (low), normal (medium) and parkour up (high), similar to the first game's system of low and high profile movements with the added benefit that parkour down (the equivalent in this sense of low profile) caused the player to move down instead of simply looking over a ledge.

I definitely feel that this system of adding context-sensitive movements is the answer - where the player presses/holds a button in addition to the movement control to give them greater control (i.e. parkour up/down). Ubisoft just needs to expand on this idea.

I've had the idea for ages that if the player is simply running horizontally (let's call this the low level) they can hold a button down to give them flashy moves - sliding under, vaulting over, Kong-vaults, passing through big crowds, leaping over walls, swinging round poles - effectively so it's almost impossible to stop moving (unless the player runs into a corner). Even if the player runs into a wall at an angle, by holding down this button the game would slide the character off and readjust them to whichever angle they happen to be pointing in.

The medium level of sprint (no buttons held down) means that the player can still sprint but they stick to objects more - they would jump onto fences, carts, barriers etc.

The high level sprinting means that the player would climb something if it's climbable or else use objects in their path as a springboard to reach a higher platform. Add some moves for extra flashiness such as somersaults and you've got yourself a dynamic movement system.



2) Many more interactive objects in the world which gives you a boost. They do not have to be difficult to use at all (think the lifts). But there could be some objects with options that you control wih X/O in a logical way.

Excellent idea. I love the concept that everything has a context. Again, it's similar to AC1's low, medium and high profile, which was deeper than most give it credit for, at least in terms of animations. Like how ledge assassinating a guard in low profile caused you to pull them off but in high profile assassinate them on the ledge (useful if there were guards below). AC needs more of these context-sensitive actions.

I also miss the emphasis on timing that the early AC games had (at least when it came to counters). Unity had this a little in its roll mechanic - which was designed to negate fall damage but also looked flashy as hell. Which is why I use it all the time. It works because you have to get the timing just right but if you pull it off it makes Arno's movement smoother and sleeker.

If they added more elements like this I'd be happy - the player can still run and jump fine without them, but if used correctly they can add a speed boost, adrenaline boost etc.

cawatrooper9
07-05-2017, 03:13 PM
Maybe that's a better way of saying it. I don't need walking around to be "hard," but I would like navigation to be more "interesting" again, especially in the vertical direction. Climbing the tower of Big Ben should have been the biggest thrill in the world but it was just meh. Surprisingly, there were some segments in Rogue that were fun, but they were too short and over almost as soon as they started.
To be fair, I think the biggest issue with Big Ben was the grappling gun, which may or may not have been a necessary evil for the game.

But I'd agree that the sense of wonder while climbing things has been a little weaker lately, still. Even Notre Dame was kind of disappointing as a view point. There was one cool moment where you had to jump from one tower to the other, but other than that it was relatively straightforward.

From Unity and Syndicate, the viewpoint that sticks out the most to me is the Bastille. I think they did a good job, making the player explore the Bastille a bit before getting access to the top.

Also, as I'm currently in the middle of a Far Cry 4 playthrough... that game actually has some pretty decent towers, right? I know I like them- perhaps more than AC viewpoints since its release,even. I certainly don't want to be frustrated while trying to sync a viewpoint, but some minor puzzles that give the player at least a small amount of satisfaction would be welcome over how easily scalable they tend to be.

jdowny
07-06-2017, 02:52 PM
To be fair, I think the biggest issue with Big Ben was the grappling gun, which may or may not have been a necessary evil for the game.

Yeah, the grappling gun almost single-handedly ruined Syndicate for me. It was arguably necessary since you could no longer traverse from building to building since they were spaced so far apart but it made climbing effortless and dull. The more chaotic and dense construction of Paris worked far better. Ironically, the WW1 London setting worked much better since the player could climb on telegraph and electricity pylons to cross buildings.


But I'd agree that the sense of wonder while climbing things has been a little weaker lately, still. Even Notre Dame was kind of disappointing as a view point. There was one cool moment where you had to jump from one tower to the other, but other than that it was relatively straightforward.

From Unity and Syndicate, the viewpoint that sticks out the most to me is the Bastille. I think they did a good job, making the player explore the Bastille a bit before getting access to the top.

I disagree about Notre Dame - that was one of the most exciting to climb for me since you couldn't climb vertically straight up from bottom to top in a straight line, and was instead divided up into sections. Plus it's a 1:1 model, I'm not sure you can blame the real-life Notre Dame for not being 'exciting' enough to climb.

What I dread when it comes to climbing viewpoints is when they're the same church tower copied 10 times in that map where you just climb straight up no problem. I like some effort and exploration involved when it comes to climbing viewpoints. Unity was great in this regard since there were so many unique ones, but in Syndicate you could reach the top of Big Ben in 5 seconds flat.

cawatrooper9
07-06-2017, 02:56 PM
Yeah, the grappling gun almost single-handedly ruined Syndicate for me. It was arguably necessary since you could no longer traverse from building to building since they were spaced so far apart but it made climbing effortless and dull. The more chaotic and dense construction of Paris worked far better. Ironically, the WW1 London setting worked much better since the player could climb on telegraph and electricity pylons to cross buildings.


Agreed. I think the grappling gun would have worked better as more like Batman's line launcher, allowing for only horizontal traversal. That way, players still had to climb, but could cross streets easily.


I disagree about Notre Dame - that was one of the most exciting to climb for me since you couldn't climb vertically straight up from bottom to top in a straight line, and was instead divided up into sections. Plus it's a 1:1 model, I'm not sure you can blame the real-life Notre Dame for not being 'exciting' enough to climb.

To each their own. It was alright, for sure, just not as great of an experience as I was hoping for from one of Paris's most iconic landmarks.

Abelzorus-Prime
07-06-2017, 10:42 PM
I'm I the only one who wants something more similar to the parkour/climbing in AC1-ACR. Perhaps I'm Old school but I think it had a good balance of being interactive without being to hard. I feel like Navigation in ACU & ACS was to effortless it didn't give me any sense of control.

SixKeys
07-07-2017, 03:16 AM
The Notre Dame commentary reminded me: has it been mentioned whether ACO buildings are 1:1 scale or smaller? I don't really mind either way, just curious.


I'm I the only one who wants something more similar to the parkour/climbing in AC1-ACR. Perhaps I'm Old school but I think it had a good balance of being interactive without being to hard. I feel like Navigation in ACU & ACS was to effortless it didn't give me any sense of control.

I would love to get the old parkour system back, but I know it's not going to happen. The best we can hope for is that they keep tweaking the current parkour so that it feels more weighty and gives the player more control.

Rugterwyper32
07-07-2017, 03:34 AM
My take is: While I'd prefer keeping the Unity style parkour but with more weight, what we really need are more navigation options, I'd say. Little extra elements that give it variety and make it feel less like just running around. Lifts were a start. But I think that the game that truly shines with that so far is Revelations. The ziplines you could take all the way to a destination, just jump off in the middle of them and go a different direction, or take advantage of them for assassinations. Then you have the corner flowerpots, with the moment to moment decision of "do I wanna keep going forward or let it take me left/right"? Things like that. Sushi's suggestions for more elements like that is probably my favorite here so far, because that's truly what'd liven it up, I think. It was pretty noticeable with AC3, specially when you saw moments like the cutscene of Connor using the tomahawk to use a rope as a zipline and then you realized "man, you could do that in Revelations, why not here"? The grappling gun could've helped add more variety in Syndicate and liven up the parkour too, hadn't it been so utterly OP that it had such huge reach and even worked vertically (should've been just horizontally, I think).

So that's where I think their effort should go. Add elements to the parkour that give you more of that moment to moment thinking. Press circle to keep going forward, or press nothing and keep going where it takes me? Keep walking on this rope that goes across the street or cut it down to move to street level faster and take down an enemy in the process? That sort of stuff. Sure, some more weight would be great, but I think other elements that make you consider where you want to go would do a lot more for it.

cawatrooper9
07-07-2017, 02:43 PM
The Notre Dame commentary reminded me: has it been mentioned whether ACO buildings are 1:1 scale or smaller? I don't really mind either way, just curious.


If anything, it would probably be the Giza pyramids and the Sphinx.




I would love to get the old parkour system back, but I know it's not going to happen. The best we can hope for is that they keep tweaking the current parkour so that it feels more weighty and gives the player more control.
Old parkour is definitely better than most of what we've seen recently, but I really like the freedom that this new parkour allows. Going from Bayek seamlessly scaling a mountain to Ezio having to go all the way around a plateau in Rome to find a road might be the wrong direction to head.