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View Full Version : Should players be allowed to grab the ledge after being pushed off?



SikanderAzam
06-28-2017, 03:14 AM
Robkiller205 recently posted in the suggestions forum what I thought was a fantastic idea. I highly recommend that you read his original post here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1694695-Suggestion-A-Second-Chance-After-Being-Thrown-off-a-Ledge

The basic gist of his suggestion is that rather than instantly dying after being pushed off a cliff, which we all experience frequently and is the quickest and simplest way to die if you slip up near a cliff against a shinobi, conqueror, warden etc, you be allowed to press a button like a counter or a save that allows you to grab the ledge. Your stamina or a timer drains after which you fall, so you can't hang indefinitely, but you can either be rescued by a party member after the enemy is killed or risk raising yourself up and possibly being knocked off for good. I thought this was a fantastic idea that I could get behind, but I'd be really interested in the community opinion... So...

How do you feel about players being allowed a second chance to grab the ledge after being knocked off a cliff in FH?

Mia.Nora
06-28-2017, 03:24 AM
It might be a bit too complex to code, the animation and all. What I would like is removing magnet effect from environmentals.

How many times my character barely touched those spikes and then pushed himself back all the way in.. so ***ing annoying. Same for push stopping me at the edge of cliff but my character deciding to jump anyway. If anything make environmental kills work only on POINT BLANK. Not kill people by pushing them in the general direction of a 2 meter away environmental.

BLOOD-E-BARON
06-28-2017, 04:20 AM
I don't mind being thrown/doing some throwing myself but to add that I think would be like adding a qte counter for executions....kind of negates having throws in the first place

SikanderAzam
06-28-2017, 01:56 PM
It might be a bit too complex to code, the animation and all. What I would like is removing magnet effect from environmentals.

How many times my character barely touched those spikes and then pushed himself back all the way in.. so ***ing annoying. Same for push stopping me at the edge of cliff but my character deciding to jump anyway. If anything make environmental kills work only on POINT BLANK. Not kill people by pushing them in the general direction of a 2 meter away environmental.

Hear, hear! I've thought the exact same thing about spikes many times... I barely bump in and then my character dramatically flings herself in to get totally impaled when the actually force of being pushed didn't look like it was enough to even warrant a scrape. In reality, getting nudged into spikes would hurt, but with the force of getting bumped it wouldn't be deadly. It should be like fire in my opinion, it does some damage depending on how hard you hit them without being an instant kill.

SikanderAzam
06-28-2017, 01:59 PM
I don't mind being thrown/doing some throwing myself but to add that I think would be like adding a qte counter for executions....kind of negates having throws in the first place

The difference is that in order to land an execution you have to first reduce the enemy's health so low that they're killed in one shot, then you have to land a heavy which can be blocked or interrupted or dodged. A player with full health can be thrown off a cliff just from someone cheesing or GBing them from behind, so I have to disagree with it being tantamount to a counter for executions. Executions are a grand finale to a fight while throwing off ledges often end the fight before it even begins.

UbiNoty
06-29-2017, 01:00 AM
I can definitely pass back the suggestion. Personally I think it would be a cool mechanic, but at the same time there's a reason why we probably didn't include in the first place. Ledging, like executions has a kind of finality to it. Once you're over the cliff, you're dead and the opponent can turn his attention to other objectives instead of waiting around like bait to make sure you don't climb up. That being said, still a neat idea.

But a few questions - If you're out of stamina before you get ledged, do you still have the opportunity to save yourself? If your stamina drains as you hang there, do you climb up out of stamina? What about if multiple people are pushed over the same ledge, who gets to save themselves or does it end up being some weird human rope/catepillar? What about heroes with different stamina pools?

I'm just actually curious.

SikanderAzam
06-29-2017, 01:37 AM
I can definitely pass back the suggestion. Personally I think it would be a cool mechanic, but at the same time there's a reason why we probably didn't include in the first place. Ledging, like executions has a kind of finality to it. Once you're over the cliff, you're dead and the opponent can turn his attention to other objectives instead of waiting around like bait to make sure you don't climb up. That being said, still a neat idea.

But a few questions - If you're out of stamina before you get ledged, do you still have the opportunity to save yourself? If your stamina drains as you hang there, do you climb up out of stamina? What about if multiple people are pushed over the same ledge, who gets to save themselves or does it end up being some weird human rope/catepillar? What about heroes with different stamina pools?

I'm just actually curious.

Hello, the OP of the idea in suggestions, Robkiller205, had a plethora of ideas. I don't think it would need to be anything crazy, and the devs could probably decide how to best implement it without nerfing ledging into the ground. Having said that, in response to the finality of being ledged and executed, while executions come at the end of a fight, ledging can preempt a fight. If there was a move that allowed you to one-hit any player and execute them from full health to zero health without any chance of revival, don't you think that it would be universally deplored? But is that not precisely what ledging is at the moment?

Further, I would go so far as to suggest that the current so-called "defensive meta" that a lot of people on these forums seem to be upset about is probably strongly encouraged and validated by the extent of ledging and how extremely effective it is. Many players, including myself, are terrified of making a single mistake near one of the many cliffs that exist all over the place on every map, and then automatically dying as a result of that single mistake. It makes us want to wait and punish mistakes instead of risk making one and just losing immediately without a fight, hence timid and defensive play styles.

UbiNoty
06-29-2017, 02:21 AM
Hello, the OP of the idea in suggestions, Robkiller205, had a plethora of ideas. I don't think it would need to be anything crazy, and the devs could probably decide how to best implement it without nerfing ledging into the ground. Having said that, in response to the finality of being ledged and executed, while executions come at the end of a fight, ledging can preempt a fight. If there was a move that allowed you to one-hit any player and execute them from full health to zero health without any chance of revival, don't you think that it would be universally deplored? But is that not precisely what ledging is at the moment?

Further, I would go so far as to suggest that the current so-called "defensive meta" that a lot of people on these forums seem to be upset about is probably strongly encouraged and validated by the extent of ledging and how extremely effective it is. Many players, including myself, are terrified of making a single mistake near one of the many cliffs that exist all over the place on every map, and then automatically dying as a result of that single mistake. It makes us want to wait and punish mistakes instead of risk making one and just losing immediately without a fight, hence timid and defensive play styles.

Ah, I didn't get a chance to look at the original thread. I'll take a look.
And while I'm more than happy to bring up your suggestion, such huge game-changing type mechanics definitely need a lot of time to create + implement (so I wouldn't be holding my breath for this to happen anytime too soon!)

AKDagriZ
06-29-2017, 02:41 AM
there is definitely a magnet effect around ledges and it been there since the beginning .There is a bug when you fall on your back first and bounce off the floor into the gap

I have also swpied peole on the ground first to see em bounce into the spike wall .Can't tell if it still on tho

I would prefer if spike throw would be more like the giant saw and the hot stream. -I think it is an easy tweak for devs and definitely whipe some salt of this game

Netcode_err_404
06-29-2017, 02:43 AM
Magnet effect is just because phisique in this game is trashcan

RatedChaotic
06-29-2017, 05:49 AM
Why add a grab mechanic to basically minimize falls....when adding a few more walls or fences could do the samething.

Adding another button to push to keep from falling would just add more bugs. I'd go for something simple. Would be hard for Ubi to screw up a fence and a wall. ????

SikanderAzam
06-29-2017, 09:35 PM
Why add a grab mechanic to basically minimize falls....when adding a few more walls or fences could do the samething.

Adding another button to push to keep from falling would just add more bugs. I'd go for something simple. Would be hard for Ubi to screw up a fence and a wall. ????

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to put up a lot more fences, but ledge grabs would nerf ledging without making it unusable. The problem isn't that ledging is completely bad, it's just that it's currently so extraordinarily effective that it essentially dictates playstyles and allows players to build their entire strategy around cheesing people off cliffs rather than actually learning their class and improving at fighting.

SikanderAzam
06-29-2017, 10:11 PM
Ah, I didn't get a chance to look at the original thread. I'll take a look.
And while I'm more than happy to bring up your suggestion, such huge game-changing type mechanics definitely need a lot of time to create + implement (so I wouldn't be holding my breath for this to happen anytime too soon!)

It would be game changing, but I think that it could actually be implemented in a way that isn't prohibitive due to needing to create new assets and write brand new code. For example, it could be as simple as using a slightly modified animation of hanging on to and climb up from a ladder, and the mechanic itself could even be as simple as letting players simple hang there to be revived with the revive icon over them. Like any other non-execution death, they would have to option to respawn or wait for a teammate to come revive them.

I don't expect it to definitely be implemented and certainly not this season, but I only certainly think that it's worth looking into and could be implemented in a way that doesn't require a huge amount of your resources to develop.

Tyrjo
06-29-2017, 10:16 PM
Why add a grab mechanic to basically minimize falls....when adding a few more walls or fences could do the samething.

Adding another button to push to keep from falling would just add more bugs. I'd go for something simple. Would be hard for Ubi to screw up a fence and a wall. ????

Exactly. I also think this is a terrible idea dev resources shouldn't be wasted on. Just make more fences if ledge kills are going extreme.

SirCorrino
06-29-2017, 10:19 PM
I don't like the idea. If you fall off, you fall off. The end.

SikanderAzam
06-29-2017, 11:07 PM
Exactly. I also think this is a terrible idea dev resources shouldn't be wasted on. Just make more fences if ledge kills are going extreme.

I don't think it would require a tremendous amount of resources if implemented simply. Add a modified ladder animation after getting ledged and add a revive icon. Done.

Sweden.. Kan du forstår norsk? De er samme eller nei?

SikanderAzam
06-29-2017, 11:09 PM
I don't like the idea. If you fall off, you fall off. The end.

I appreciate the straightforwardness.

SikanderAzam
07-05-2017, 09:25 PM
Week two of this poll. It closes in about a week, still interested in how people feel about it.