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SikanderAzam
06-26-2017, 09:17 PM
Disclaimer: this is a TL;DR post.

I've never bothered posting on the forum dedicated to a game before, but after playing For Honor for the last two months, I feel compelled to. The reason I feel compelled to is after nearly two decades of gaming, I've never played a game like For Honor in which in the majority of games that I lose I have no idea what I did wrong, and feel like I really had no control over the outcome. I feel this way despite having close to 90% wins in duels and floating around 70% in dominion types. I don't get destroyed repeatedly, but when I do, I don't know how it happened. When I first started playing, I had the same complaints that there are a hundred posts on--the Centurion is OP, Shinobi doesn't fit the game, etc. The beginning of the second month, I had decided to give the game the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the month after trying different classes, I now feel compelled to come on here and explain my problems and ask if any high level players have explanations for something that I'm just missing, because I've hit a wall. There are a handful of things that just annihilate me every time I get in the situation.

1. People constantly complain about Centurion and Shinobi. I don't think Centurion is the auto-win character that a lot of people say, but my experience is that if he so much as blocks a single light attack from me, he has a guaranteed gb into kick into pouncing on me and stabbing me through the chest, which is 2/3 of my health and all of my stamina. All of that guaranteed because yay, he blocked ONE light attack. What am I doing wrong? I rarely get a gb off on somehow just because I blocked a light, but against centurion it's guaranteed.. I realize that these heroes are supposed to be slightly over powered as a coercion technique to get players to pay for them and ubisoft gets more money, but I feel like I MUST be missing something here. No other player in any fighting game I've ever played has such an easy, devastating, and unavoidable combo. And he can immediately do it again too, it doesn't take much stamina from him. After the season pass when ubisoft stops extorting money from people and are willing to nerf these heroes, at least remove the tracking of centurion's unblockables. Today a centurion leaped at me from the other side of a stone structure and CURVED around the corner in midair to land the strike on me. That's just obscene.

2. How the hell do you fight against a turtling Orochi that will only counter attack? Any attack I attempt, they will side step and get a free counter attack with tremendous damage. As long as they know how to counter gb, I literally cannot for the life of me find a single way to touch them. If they're slow or stupid I can still win, but the smart ones that are fast refuse to take the initiative and just pick me apart one counter at a time, surely laughing to themselves because they know I have no way to actually touch them. I have a similar absolute inability to do anything against a very good warlord except that they use their autoblock from all directions instead of sidesteps then follow with free hits as I recoil. I still don't know if Valkyries are just really that slow, but if I get blocked or miss anything it's another guaranteed gb on me into heavy or whatever combo. My 1v1 fights are typically either perfect and near perfect victories without getting touched, or I get absolutely crushed because a) orochi turtle and nothing in my moveset was able to so much as touch them or b) I made a single mistake against centurion and lost 2/3 health as a result.

3. Is it just a result of poor quality p2p connections that gb is often unblockable? The more I understand the game, the more I feel like the way to win is to not bother learning your hero, just learn the one cheese move, spam it, and try to knock people off cliffs with that cheese + gbs. Aside from a smart Orochi or a good centurion in a close space, I can fairly consistently beat anyone if we're just fighting in open space, but I would go so far as to guess that 80% of my deaths are due to being thrown off a cliff by a gb that I KNOW I countered in time, but the counter somehow didn't go through so off the cliff I go. Over and over and over and over. I know the gb is coming, I definitely press the button, I watch my character fly off a cliff and auto die. The pattern never ends and it's infuriating because I don't understand what I could possibly do differently. I'm not missing the counter, it just won't register half the time and that's an automatic death. The most effective way to play is to be a shinobi or a warlord or a conqueror and just sit on bridges and platforms. After getting to prestige 6 as a Valkyrie without trying anyone else, I finally tried Warlord and Shinobi and just cheesed like I see people doing, and was astounded that it really is that easy and effective. I thought, surely I'm just being butthurt, it can't be that easy. Nope, it is that easy. In my first 10 games as a Warlord, I had top score on 8 because I just ran around hiding until I could fling people off cliffs. It was absurdly effective and completely unsatisfying because it took no skill. I didn't even know his moveset, I was just trolling people and winning game after game. I feel like skill is maybe 25% of the game, the ability to use the environment and selectively refuse combat is 75%. Also, if Orochi gb in heavy attacks me once, they often chain into another gb immediately after and I feel that I can't stop it. I have no explanation for this, maybe its the connection but it's insane. I've seen an Orochi walk up to me and gb-heavy THREE TIMES successively while I sit there with my jaw on the floor in disbelief. I'm not a pro player, but I swear to god I'm not a rock, I do have some reflexes.

RenegadeRasta
06-27-2017, 02:02 AM
1. You're not doing anything wrong, because Centurion is Centurion. It's not like he can't be beat though. His unblockables can totally be parried, with a lot of focus and good timing. There isn't much to do if you get caught up in his combos, except pray that he ****s up.

2. If all the side-steppers are gonna do is side step, then you do a heavy, then feint it, they side step attack, then you counter that **** however you see fit. With some players, you don't even need to take the initiative, they'll just side step off the bat and you go from there. As for turtles. you don't have to fight them. Really. You don't. Either let someone else handle that, or group n' gank. No need to give yourself a headache. Pick your battles.

3.This game's connections are not the best, so not being able to counter a grab because of it is viable because I too feel that me hitting square right as players grab me never registers in time.

But um, this bit right here:
"In my first 10 games as a Warlord, I had top score on 8 because I just ran around hiding until I could fling people off cliffs. It was absurdly effective and completely unsatisfying because it took no skill. I didn't even know his moveset, I was just trolling people and winning game after game."

Yea, **** you. Why would you do that? For 10 games in a row? Really? You know that's how players get reported for griefing?

Anyways... Pick your battles (if you're not doing 1v1's) and learn your hero.

Antonioj26
06-27-2017, 02:23 AM
Disclaimer: this is a TL;DR post.

I've never bothered posting on the forum dedicated to a game before, but after playing For Honor for the last two months, I feel compelled to. The reason I feel compelled to is after nearly two decades of gaming, I've never played a game like For Honor in which in the majority of games that I lose I have no idea what I did wrong, and feel like I really had no control over the outcome. I feel this way despite having close to 90% wins in duels and floating around 70% in dominion types. I don't get destroyed repeatedly, but when I do, I don't know how it happened. When I first started playing, I had the same complaints that there are a hundred posts on--the Centurion is OP, Shinobi doesn't fit the game, etc. The beginning of the second month, I had decided to give the game the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the month after trying different classes, I now feel compelled to come on here and explain my problems and ask if any high level players have explanations for something that I'm just missing, because I've hit a wall. There are a handful of things that just annihilate me every time I get in the situation.

1. People constantly complain about Centurion and Shinobi. I don't think Centurion is the auto-win character that a lot of people say, but my experience is that if he so much as blocks a single light attack from me, he has a guaranteed gb into kick into pouncing on me and stabbing me through the chest, which is 2/3 of my health and all of my stamina. All of that guaranteed because yay, he blocked ONE light attack. What am I doing wrong? I rarely get a gb off on somehow just because I blocked a light, but against centurion it's guaranteed.. I realize that these heroes are supposed to be slightly over powered as a coercion technique to get players to pay for them and ubisoft gets more money, but I feel like I MUST be missing something here. No other player in any fighting game I've ever played has such an easy, devastating, and unavoidable combo. And he can immediately do it again too, it doesn't take much stamina from him. After the season pass when ubisoft stops extorting money from people and are willing to nerf these heroes, at least remove the tracking of centurion's unblockables. Today a centurion leaped at me from the other side of a stone structure and CURVED around the corner in midair to land the strike on me. That's just obscene.

2. How the hell do you fight against a turtling Orochi that will only counter attack? Any attack I attempt, they will side step and get a free counter attack with tremendous damage. As long as they know how to counter gb, I literally cannot for the life of me find a single way to touch them. If they're slow or stupid I can still win, but the smart ones that are fast refuse to take the initiative and just pick me apart one counter at a time, surely laughing to themselves because they know I have no way to actually touch them. I have a similar absolute inability to do anything against a very good warlord except that they use their autoblock from all directions instead of sidesteps then follow with free hits as I recoil. I still don't know if Valkyries are just really that slow, but if I get blocked or miss anything it's another guaranteed gb on me into heavy or whatever combo. My 1v1 fights are typically either perfect and near perfect victories without getting touched, or I get absolutely crushed because a) orochi turtle and nothing in my moveset was able to so much as touch them or b) I made a single mistake against centurion and lost 2/3 health as a result.

3. Is it just a result of poor quality p2p connections that gb is often unblockable? The more I understand the game, the more I feel like the way to win is to not bother learning your hero, just learn the one cheese move, spam it, and try to knock people off cliffs with that cheese + gbs. Aside from a smart Orochi or a good centurion in a close space, I can fairly consistently beat anyone if we're just fighting in open space, but I would go so far as to guess that 80% of my deaths are due to being thrown off a cliff by a gb that I KNOW I countered in time, but the counter somehow didn't go through so off the cliff I go. Over and over and over and over. I know the gb is coming, I definitely press the button, I watch my character fly off a cliff and auto die. The pattern never ends and it's infuriating because I don't understand what I could possibly do differently. I'm not missing the counter, it just won't register half the time and that's an automatic death. The most effective way to play is to be a shinobi or a warlord or a conqueror and just sit on bridges and platforms. After getting to prestige 6 as a Valkyrie without trying anyone else, I finally tried Warlord and Shinobi and just cheesed like I see people doing, and was astounded that it really is that easy and effective. I thought, surely I'm just being butthurt, it can't be that easy. Nope, it is that easy. In my first 10 games as a Warlord, I had top score on 8 because I just ran around hiding until I could fling people off cliffs. It was absurdly effective and completely unsatisfying because it took no skill. I didn't even know his moveset, I was just trolling people and winning game after game. I feel like skill is maybe 25% of the game, the ability to use the environment and selectively refuse combat is 75%. Also, if Orochi gb in heavy attacks me once, they often chain into another gb immediately after and I feel that I can't stop it. I have no explanation for this, maybe its the connection but it's insane. I've seen an Orochi walk up to me and gb-heavy THREE TIMES successively while I sit there with my jaw on the floor in disbelief. I'm not a pro player, but I swear to god I'm not a rock, I do have some reflexes.

1. Centurion will not get a free GB on a light block unless you are doing certain dash attacks, really the only one that comes to mind is valkyries dash attack know that they fixed kenseis, but other than that all other lights will not result in a GB. Secondly kick doesnt lead to a pounce, he needs to get a fully charged jab off which is I think about 1000ms. That tracking is pretty good on it so it may be safer at times to just hit him with one of your faster lights since it doesnt have UI. The pounce itself does 35 damage so not a ton of damage, still pretty good but not quite the 2/3rds you are saying. He's definitely tough for many people as he isn't quite like the other cast members but once you learn his patterns his not nearly as bad in 1v1 situations. If you play on PSN I'd be happy to spar with you and help you learn how to fight against him.

2. I'm starting to think you initiate too much with dash attacks and those indeed are free GBs for valkyrie. You need to use those more tactfully since the payoff isnt that great compared to how bad it can hurt you. I'm guessing you mean when orochi uses his deflect into heavy UI unblockable. This attack I believe does 50 damage but its also incredibly slow and telegraphed since as soon as the deflect animation happens you can prep yourself to dodge backwards and completely avoid it. Warlord is tough matchup especially for valkyrie, honestly I can't give much advice on this aside from just practicing and learning how to read your opponent. Unfortunately warlord is in a position where he doesn't really have any counters.

3. Well when it comes to CGB it could be a few reasons why its not working. If you are doing the dash attacks with valk and they are blocked you cannot cgb, you also cannot cgb during the recovery frames of a whiffed gb/attack. Dodging also prevents any way of cgb so if you are someone who dodges a lot this could also be your problem. Cheese and cliffs unfortunately are a huge part of this game and it can be what really ruins a fun or interesting match. Its best to learn the counters the best you can and not let it get to you. With regards to the orochi gb, it honestly just sounds like you need practice with CGB unless you were trying to dodge. Again I'm happy to spar with you if you play on PSN, it will also give me a much better idea of what your opportunities are.

PSN: AlyssaA-3

I play on my wifes acct since my cousin uses mine.

Eyaside
06-27-2017, 10:15 AM
The way you described it, it sounds like you play Valk. Your leaping top light and your dodge lights are all a free GB on block. Annoying, but yeah. If you're going for moves in your mix up, like sweep or shield bash, and they get dodged, it's also another free GB for your opponent that you can't counter.

If this wasn't the problem, please correct me.

SikanderAzam
06-27-2017, 03:18 PM
Really great responses for all the situations I asked about. Many thanks, I'll try to implement them. Shamefully, it hadn't even occurred to me that centurion's unblockables can just be parried. I also hadn't realized that whiffing a Valk dash is a longer recovery time than her other moves. That's not always when I see people getting "free" gb on me, but in retrospect it's probably a significant portion. And that dash is hyper telegraphed and easily blocked.. probably best used in pursuit rather than to attack someone that's targeting you.

Also, as far as being reported for refusing combat and turtling near cliffs to throw people off, I agree that it's super annoying and I only did it that one day to see if it was actually viable, but if turtling and throwing people off cliffs is a reportable offense then are on average probably 2 people in every 4v4 "griefing" because I see this every game. It's how I die half of the time, I get cheesed off a cliff by someone who won't actually fight me.

guffffff
06-27-2017, 03:29 PM
In another thread there is a Centurion complaining about Valkyrie combos and how it's impossible to deal with. There are some weird things in this game and I think its down to the internet. Same as in other games players shoot you after you have hid behind a wall or they have seemingly heat seeking grenades, or warp about and are impossible to hit, the same kind of oddness happens here were you can't CGB or you get stuck in a PK stabbing frenzy and can't even move - just odd stuff

XxHunterHxX
06-27-2017, 03:54 PM
People spamm the same move over and over again and they push you off stuff when they have the chance ? welcome to for honor where honor = ez kill

Pro Tips...

Kill a guy as cheese as you can

Spamm emotes over his dead body

call hem a noob in chat and spamm ez kill ez life

he will rage quit do to the amount of salt

you win go you....

SikanderAzam
06-27-2017, 05:31 PM
I think I responded to him. There's no real way to absolutely "prove" who is OP, but the fact that there are dozens of complains about centurions and shinobis every day can't be ignored imo. Valkyrie combos are clunky and easily foilable, and her recovery time is so awful that she's dead if you just counter her once. That's just not the case with Centurion and Shinobi, and I think the overwhelming number of people agree that they just don't fit the play style of all the other classes which makes them just repulsive to deal with.

SikanderAzam
06-27-2017, 05:33 PM
People spamm the same move over and over again and they push you off stuff when they have the chance ? welcome to for honor where honor = ez kill

Pro Tips...

Kill a guy as cheese as you can

Spamm emotes over his dead body

call hem a noob in chat and spamm ez kill ez life

he will rage quit do to the amount of salt

you win go you....

It's making me lose interest in this game, but I more and more feel like you're right. The most effective tactic is to cower and then cheese people off cliffs. I get 4 times the points as anyone else in matches and then still lose often because someone gb spammed me on a bridge and somehow inexplicably landed one and I auto-die.

pure_energist
06-27-2017, 06:01 PM
There is a lot to learn in this game beyond what the characters move lists and tutorials inform you on. They give you some basics, but those basics don't tell you what moves leave you defenseless if whiffed. Is is possible for Ubisoft to actually Show hit and recovery frames for the moves list? IF you did this ubi it would provide more insight into picking up new characters and knowing which moves and combos could leave a player defenseless.. I remember when playing the BETA I raged over not being able to Block an Orochi Top Heavy when I got GB.. I was infuriated because I thought there was a bug not letting me block when I obviously had plenty of time... Its a learning curve to find out what attacks are guaranteed and which attacks leave you open for guaranteed hits. So this is the biggest downfall for new players picking up this game. The tutorial doesn't prepare anyone enough to know why they missed an attack, why they can't block an attack, why they get GB.. etc.. Unfortunately forums aren't a great resource either because you'll often find several forms complaining about the same thing and the more experienced community members tired of informing people just let them go unanswered. There are reasons your losing and its not because the game is broken; its just you have to learn more about recovery and how to perform guaranteed attacks as well as be wary of classes that will exploit these mechanics. Example: Shugoki players love to hang out near a wall, use his armor to eat a hit and GB you,, throw into wall and get a guaranteed hug restoring the health he lost when eating your hit..

pure_energist
06-27-2017, 06:13 PM
Ubisoft, please pay attention to how many new players will have similar feelings as the OP and perhaps provide some additional videos within the "HOW TO PLAY" section informing the base about guaranteed hits. GB's, Off wall Staggers, certain blocks... With this information there will be less anger over losing since they will have an actual explanation to why they couldn't block an attack or why their attacked left them open... Many will assume its a bug, glitch, or connection issue and rant about that. I havn't been on a game forum in YEARS, and only started on this one because I was excited about For Honor and knowing it was a brand new design I thought a forum would be a great resource. Hadn't I been informed by this player base I would have put this game down the first month because I would have believed it was broken or I just wasn't getting it. Making players seek out information means they will be forced to go to forums where they will see A LOT of Angry postings that will only feed their dissent with the game as well. Please consider adding more informative videos to the games tutorial about your fighting system and what to expect.

SikanderAzam
06-27-2017, 07:37 PM
Ubisoft, please pay attention to how many new players will have similar feelings as the OP and perhaps provide some additional videos within the "HOW TO PLAY" section informing the base about guaranteed hits. GB's, Off wall Staggers, certain blocks... With this information there will be less anger over losing since they will have an actual explanation to why they couldn't block an attack or why their attacked left them open... Many will assume its a bug, glitch, or connection issue and rant about that. I havn't been on a game forum in YEARS, and only started on this one because I was excited about For Honor and knowing it was a brand new design I thought a forum would be a great resource. Hadn't I been informed by this player base I would have put this game down the first month because I would have believed it was broken or I just wasn't getting it. Making players seek out information means they will be forced to go to forums where they will see A LOT of Angry postings that will only feed their dissent with the game as well. Please consider adding more informative videos to the games tutorial about your fighting system and what to expect.

You nailed it in saying this. Even when I get angry, I have to concede that the overwhelming majority of the time the thing I'm angry about is probably not a bug, but with the lack of any Ubi provided information on recovery times, guaranteed hits, off wall staggers, and GB mechanics, there are still even after a couple months of playing things that I genuinely don't understand. Forum members like you have helped me out with some suggestions, but the details like this which are a total necessity for a good player to learn to become a great player are not intuitive and need to be sought out on forums which often usually have plenty of angry rants available to validate players' frustrations. Losing in a game fairly doesn't usually frustrate many people, but losing and feeling that they lost because of a bug or some mechanical flaw that they don't understand does frustrate people and leave them feeling cheated. This lack of understanding of the obscure but crucial details of this game probably accounts for the overwhelming amount of frustration, and it can be solved by making the intricate mechanics more clearly explained to new players through Ubi provided materials and perhaps even an expanded in-game tutorial on those topics.