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View Full Version : If Orochi wasn't limited by reflex defense?



DaLast_Samurai
06-26-2017, 06:20 PM
What do you guys think?

I'm a one week newb, but been playing non-stop and learning a lot.

I've come to get the impression that of all the assassins he has the most limited skill set and is quite predictable.

Would you guys think it would be too much to make him not limited by reflex defense and be able to keep his guard up at all times?

I pretty much exclusively rely on dodging with him, but would love to be able to block and parry with more success with him.

JibletHunter
06-26-2017, 06:26 PM
I believe all assassins have a decaying guard. Dodging with orochi is powerful (especially with slip through active), but blocking/parrying is still very viable. It just takes some practice to remember to reset the guard timer by periodically switching stances.

If you would like some practice, i would recommend playing shinbi for a few rounds. His guard decays at double the speed of other assassins, so it will be good training to block on reflex and refresh guard decay instead of holding a stance. Practicing with shinobi really helped improve my reflex guard on the mother reflex guard classes.

Knight_Raime
06-26-2017, 06:48 PM
He does need a few bumps up. But switching his guard stance isn't what he needs.
IMO we need to:
~turn the last light in his light light light attack into an unblockable heavy. It can be slowed slightly to compensate.
~Hurricane blast needs to be guarenteed. maybe if it is if you deflect heavies.
~bust hurricane gust to 35 to put it on par with parrying.
~make storm rush slightly faster and potentially more cancelable farther in the animation.

just a few ideas.

DaLast_Samurai
06-26-2017, 08:08 PM
Yeah, I think your idea about Storm Rush being slightly faster and more cancel capable further into the animation is a good one for sure.
One of his best moves when it works in countering, but with it being useless as an initial attack, and him not having many movesets to choose from, a little upgrade to this move would be nice.

It says in his moveset instructional sheet that Wind Gust and Hurricane Blast are unblockable.
So not sure what you mean, isn't Hurricane Blast a guarantee as is?

I didn't understand anything you mean by "bust hurricane gust to 35 to put it on par with parrying".
I'm assuming you mean "Wind Gust" for starters there.
To 35? What do you mean by that.

I feel like this stuff doesn't really compensate as much for his limited moves those.
I think the big one I like from you is the improved Storm Rush, and then I would love to have his guard improved to NON-reflex.

I just love him, the only agile Samurai with a Katana.
But I want to block and parry with him so much.

I don't feel like that would make him an overbearing assassin with his limited offense.
I think they should make they exception to this assassin.
And make me really happy at the same time, lol.

MasterChiefPON
06-26-2017, 08:21 PM
I started playing Orochi recently and I know there's a lot of feedback from more experienced Orochi, but these are some things I think Orochi need:

1- Make storm rush faster because right now to try to punish someone with it is a guessing game. Make it untinterruptable because it's dumb that you are trying to punish whiffs or make a mix up out of it and and the enemy just hits you out of it. Make that you can cancel it later because right now that distance is too short.

2- Make the riptide strike better. I don't have an idea of how but I don't feel like it's a good move.

Since the devs are not going to add new moves I think that because Orochi relies on ZA too, they should increase his stamina maybe a little bit.

That plus the defensive meta parch would be good for him I think.

DaLast_Samurai
06-26-2017, 08:28 PM
Yeah, the Riptide Strike doesn't pull as far back as Storm Rush, so your enemy has to be the perfect distance for it to work, as well as you timing it to counter his move perfect.

What is "defense meta parch" by the way?

One week newb, only used Orochi so far.

Learning a ton on these forums, thanks.

The_B0G_
06-26-2017, 08:43 PM
Once you get further into the game and start matching against better players you won't even notice his block as any different from other heroes since you will be constantly feinted and hit with lights, you'll always be moving your block.

Thats what I noticed with the zerker anyway, usually I just dodge when I use assassins though.

DaLast_Samurai
06-26-2017, 08:51 PM
I guess that does make sense, it not making much difference when you're being feinted.
Perhaps I should just get over this and try to parry with reaction at the right times, but of course rely on dodging with him as intended as his main defense.

MasterChiefPON
06-26-2017, 08:56 PM
Yeah, the Riptide Strike doesn't pull as far back as Storm Rush, so your enemy has to be the perfect distance for it to work, as well as you timing it to counter his move perfect.

What is "defense meta parch" by the way?

One week newb, only used Orochi so far.

Learning a ton on these forums, thanks.

At certain level of play, defense is considered too strong. In the game you can block for defending against an attack, parry to get a huge reward for parrying your enemies attack or to defend against an unblockable, or dodge.

Parrying and dodging come with risks, so if you dodge and the ebemy gb's you can't counter it, so if your enemies tricks you to dodge he can gb you and if you try to parry an attack and the enemy feints it (cancels it), he can punish you for trying to parry. Those risks create some kind of balance for the characters that don't have any unblockables or extremely fast attacks to force an enemy to take risks.

What happens is that at some level people decided to play the characters that have moves which can force the enemy to do something else than blocking and play safe and don't take risks unless the opponent have something to force them. That creates an unbalance for every character that can't force their enemy to take a risk.

That's one version.

There is another one where people don't attack and try to parry what is safe (attacks that can't be canceled) to parry and because of that it's said that parry is too rewarding.

The turtle meta patch is to address blocking being to safe and to adress parry being too rewarding.

The_B0G_
06-26-2017, 10:45 PM
I guess that does make sense, it not making much difference when you're being feinted.
Perhaps I should just get over this and try to parry with reaction at the right times, but of course rely on dodging with him as intended as his main defense.

If you time your dodge perfect you get a deflect as well, you have to dodge in the direction of the attack.

psyminion
06-26-2017, 11:08 PM
rep 22 roach here.

with more time playing (you said a week?) you'll have no problem blocking.

the mechanics of the game (for me) are easy to understand and hard to master... that's why I like For Honor.
anyone can pick up a sword and start slicing. but get your blocking/parry/counter guard breaks mastered and its a whole different game.

UbiJurassic
06-27-2017, 02:14 AM
Great feedback on Orochi! He's probably my second favorite to play, behind PK. A lot of the assassin classes generally rely more on dodging as a defense due to their greater maneuverability than the other classes. Also, because deflects are built into their kit, dodging as a defense has the opportunity to allow for some offensive plays as well. In addition to that, feints become an important tactic to master as well. We stated previously that we want offense characters, like the assassins, the have more ways than just feinting to open up an opponent in our upcoming defense meta patch. We have stated how exactly that will be done, but we will release more info on the defense meta patch as it becomes available.

Existentialmeme
06-27-2017, 06:22 AM
I'm too lazy to actually read through all the replies, but since it's about Orochi (My Main~) I'll contribute a bit to this convo and let you know how I play orochi :)


The reflex guard to me is even better than the constant guard, because after some practice, you can pull off perfect block quite consistently, which interrupts heavy attacks. I've gotten to a point where without reflex guard, I'm actually worse xD


now onto how I play Orochi:
I made my gear stats and playstyle around the deflect moves ( mostly Hurricane Blast, cuz it's awesome to pull off)

I focus my stats on Defense and Attack. and then is defense penetration, exhaustion recovery, stamina recovery, execution health regen, and revenge mode attack and defense.

In terms of Feats, I have Bounty Hunter, Revenge Attacks, Slip Through, And Fear Itself. I used to have Kunai on the second feat but since the nerf, it got a bit useless xD

The most important feat for me is the slip through, with that, all dodge attacks, deflects, even your attacks right after a dodge is buffed so much.


There's once in elimination where I Literally one-shotted someone with Hurricane Blast ( He was at full health) having Slip through, Fear itself, and a damage buff perk thingy. IT WAS AMAZING

peakaj
06-27-2017, 08:12 PM
Only A few tweaks are needed to Orochi. I honestly think he is already very lethal.
These suggestions will allow Orochi to play more mind games instead of getting parried 100% of the time.


Be able to Cancel Riptide Strike
This would create an opportunity for the Orochi to dodge an attack and remain in their opponents face. Most of the time this attack gets blocked/parried. I imagine it would look like a version of the Nobushi hidden stance.
Wider range to Cancel Storm Rush
This attack is now so predicable that its almost always parried in high level play, making it scary to use. Also, being in-range of opponents is crucial to Orochi's attack and this would help fill the gap and create more mix-up potential.
Deflects should work on Unblockables(this might not be needed)
The Deflect mechanic should be possible on unblockable attacks, since the mechanic requires the same timing as a parry.

DeathWatcher0
06-28-2017, 03:16 AM
i honestly don't see the point of orochi having a reflex stance when he has variable speeds in his opening lights. i mean, what's the point of having your stance hidden before you attack if your only option is to attack from the top anyway since the other two directions are too slow? All the other assassin's lights have the same speed in all directions, so they can benefit from having reflex stance to hide their indicator.

Sekiro...
07-04-2017, 03:05 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1684973-Fix-the-broken-reflex-guard-or-get-rid-of-it-altogether