PDA

View Full Version : Is the revenge nerf responsible of these Gank fest in dominion?



Capoupacap
06-26-2017, 01:09 AM
I had always loved dominion and buy this game because of this mod.

While my group has faced from the beginning this 4 opponent grouped strategy, at the first stage, because of vengeance, it wasn't a guaranteed move.

Since the revenge nerf, I feel that this strategy is coming much more often and I found that a bit sad for this game mode.

UbiNoty
06-26-2017, 01:50 AM
It may be a bit of the revenge nerf as well as the new heroes. We nerfed revenge quite early on and didn't see a huge issue with gank squads in dominion until recently.
We felt the revenge nerfs were necessary as it gave too much outplay potential to a single individual (giving the majority of players the ability to 1v4 by yourself is not balanced) - so while I can pass along any suggestions you have for revenge buffs, we'll most likely have to wait and see how the def meta patch changes things before we consider changes to revenge.
As for the popularity of gank-squads in dominion - centurion nerfs should be coming soon, and the def meta changes as well. Hopefully the addition of these will make encourage dominion players to use a bit more strategy and less brute force.

That_guy44
06-26-2017, 02:25 AM
I dont think the revenge nerf is to blame. I blame centurion's ability to negate hyper armor. That coupled with the long *** combo that renders your character unable to act means you're often killed by one charged heavy.

kweassa1
06-26-2017, 02:32 AM
I had always loved dominion and buy this game because of this mod.

While my group has faced from the beginning this 4 opponent grouped strategy, at the first stage, because of vengeance, it wasn't a guaranteed move.

Since the revenge nerf, I feel that this strategy is coming much more often and I found that a bit sad for this game mode.

It only means:

1. more people are getting smarter
2. those who still play dumb, and don't get how team-mode games are played face much higher consequences

In the end, team fights are about efficiency, how to use your manpower in the smartest manner.

So which tactic is there in real life, that allows maximum potential to defeat your foe, receive minimal damage on your part, and even allows those lacking in individual skill to survive and fight on?

Answer: Teaming up

But since dominion has multiple objectives spread out over an area, which is too large to cover with just one group, it naturally comes down to how well your team splits up and regroups upon need. The team with less smart people are usually ignorant about what happens to their teammates, they don't know where they are, they aren't aware how many enemies they're facing.

I've seen much too many times where one guy is only at about 5~10 seconds distance from the other guy, who is being attacked by 2 enemies, and yet totally oblivious to what's going on around him and just striking down NPC minions like a robot. Guess what happens next when the 2 enemies kill your teammate while you were doing nothing to save him.


Refer to this thread to read in detail what I'm talking about:

Thread: [Dominion Tactics] This is why your team gets ganked and lose (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1685975-Dominion-Tactics-This-is-why-your-team-gets-ganked-and-lose)



The "gank" is not the result of the enemy team running ganky death-squads. The "gank" is what happens when your team plays bad, gets picked off and killed one-by-one, and then gets all their respawn times royally screwed up,

In other words, the "gank" is not the cause of your team losing. It's actually the other way around -- when your team is bad, they got 0 coordination with each other, so they're constantly killed and in respawn, and therefore, perpetually outnumbered -- which in the end, turns into a gankfest turkey shoot for the opponent team.

mrmistark
06-26-2017, 04:23 AM
Hmmmm, I kind of half agree with OP. Yes, dominion and skirmish are team oriented, but the WHOLE of these two game modes depends on how good your teammates are in general or how bad the enemy is assuming both teams are playing smart and stay completely together. It comes down to holding your own as it whittles down to a giant **** fest. Whoevers guy to die first is typically run through. Being punished because a random player on your team can't hold his own plus the added anoyence of the team being completely broken apart for another 3 minutes is not my definition of fun. Though I agree the nerf to revenge isn't horrible, and was justified, it has made these game modes much more difficult as now every team plays almost TOO much into a "team game mode". It may not be a "gank fest" like others say, because it's not quite accurate. Let me break it down: these game modes are officially waves of attacks. Wait for your whole team, group up, and go on the offensive. Clash into full enemy team. One team dies completely, regroup team. Restart new wave of offensive. its no longer a continuos game mode as intended, it might as well be rounds like elimination unless you wish to get run through once sick of dealing with teammates. All this being said it'd be nice to see a slight bump in revenge specifically for these team games, it would keep the action more fluid and consistent rather than a back and forth wave game, which is without a doubt what the real intent of these two game modes is supposed to be.

Capoupacap
06-26-2017, 11:20 AM
It may be a bit of the revenge nerf as well as the new heroes. We nerfed revenge quite early on and didn't see a huge issue with gank squads in dominion until recently.
We felt the revenge nerfs were necessary as it gave too much outplay potential to a single individual (giving the majority of players the ability to 1v4 by yourself is not balanced) - so while I can pass along any suggestions you have for revenge buffs, we'll most likely have to wait and see how the def meta patch changes things before we consider changes to revenge.
As for the popularity of gank-squads in dominion - centurion nerfs should be coming soon, and the def meta changes as well. Hopefully the addition of these will make encourage dominion players to use a bit more strategy and less brute force.


Revenge nerf was totally necessary and for my opinion Gear stats and revenge don't bring lot's of interesting things in this game ^^ The only threat I've seen that can be interesting for revenge is that it avoid to fall. How fair and balance it is, well that's an huge discussion ^^

I think what was interesting in revenge before it's major nerf, was that because it was totally overpowered, people (smart one) avoided to attack 2-3vs1. That's why I was laughing this thread.

Capoupacap
06-26-2017, 11:23 AM
It only means:

1. more people are getting smarter
2. those who still play dumb, and don't get how team-mode games are played face much higher consequences

In the end, team fights are about efficiency, how to use your manpower in the smartest manner.

So which tactic is there in real life, that allows maximum potential to defeat your foe, receive minimal damage on your part, and even allows those lacking in individual skill to survive and fight on?

Answer: Teaming up

But since dominion has multiple objectives spread out over an area, which is too large to cover with just one group, it naturally comes down to how well your team splits up and regroups upon need. The team with less smart people are usually ignorant about what happens to their teammates, they don't know where they are, they aren't aware how many enemies they're facing.

I've seen much too many times where one guy is only at about 5~10 seconds distance from the other guy, who is being attacked by 2 enemies, and yet totally oblivious to what's going on around him and just striking down NPC minions like a robot. Guess what happens next when the 2 enemies kill your teammate while you were doing nothing to save him.


Refer to this thread to read in detail what I'm talking about:

Thread: [Dominion Tactics] This is why your team gets ganked and lose (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1685975-Dominion-Tactics-This-is-why-your-team-gets-ganked-and-lose)



The "gank" is not the result of the enemy team running ganky death-squads. The "gank" is what happens when your team plays bad, gets picked off and killed one-by-one, and then gets all their respawn times royally screwed up,

In other words, the "gank" is not the cause of your team losing. It's actually the other way around -- when your team is bad, they got 0 coordination with each other, so they're constantly killed and in respawn, and therefore, perpetually outnumbered -- which in the end, turns into a gankfest turkey shoot for the opponent team.


Well, while your post is true and full of senses and I'll definitely read the forum post. I launch this post because of lot's of game again this kind of match up: cent, lb, warlord, shugoki running for the whole game together. We didn't lose it, we found that very annoying because of how frequently it is ;)

anyway thanks for your feedback

Draghmar
06-26-2017, 12:06 PM
I think revenge had it's impact. It was necessary to nerf it but the truth is it made ganking more easy.
The important thing that happened are people who realized that running in groups from point to point is more effective then other tactics and by that making points less important.

Gray360UK
06-26-2017, 12:24 PM
Like you said, Old Revenge didn't really discourage ganking, people were still just as bloodthirsty and a lot of people were complaining about Dominion being a gankfest from day 1. Old Revenge just allowed you to not only survive it but annihilate the entire enemy team. Old Revenge masked the ganking problem while causing other problems of it's own.

The new Season 2 heroes with their extra arsenal of unblockables, stuns, knockdowns and CCs have made it harder to survive a gank depending on how many of them you face at a time. This is why you will find many people calling for Revenge to grant CC immunity.

Having said all that, bad teams are bad teams, good teams are good, same for the players, and most of the problems come from being dropped into teams with a silly range of levels, skill, gear and experience. Ganking arises when things are going wrong elsewhere, it's a symptom of something else being wrong, poor teamwork, bad individual players, poor matchmaking. You can't gank a superior force in my experience, and there is always the option to counter-gank. If my team are losing to a gank squad one of the first things I look at is what is my team doing wrong that is allowing the other team to gank us.

Capoupacap
06-26-2017, 12:50 PM
couldn't have said it a better way ;)

The_B0G_
06-26-2017, 05:26 PM
It only means:

1. more people are getting smarter
2. those who still play dumb, and don't get how team-mode games are played face much higher consequences

In the end, team fights are about efficiency, how to use your manpower in the smartest manner.

So which tactic is there in real life, that allows maximum potential to defeat your foe, receive minimal damage on your part, and even allows those lacking in individual skill to survive and fight on?

Answer: Teaming up

But since dominion has multiple objectives spread out over an area, which is too large to cover with just one group, it naturally comes down to how well your team splits up and regroups upon need. The team with less smart people are usually ignorant about what happens to their teammates, they don't know where they are, they aren't aware how many enemies they're facing.

I've seen much too many times where one guy is only at about 5~10 seconds distance from the other guy, who is being attacked by 2 enemies, and yet totally oblivious to what's going on around him and just striking down NPC minions like a robot. Guess what happens next when the 2 enemies kill your teammate while you were doing nothing to save him.


Refer to this thread to read in detail what I'm talking about:

Thread: [Dominion Tactics] This is why your team gets ganked and lose (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1685975-Dominion-Tactics-This-is-why-your-team-gets-ganked-and-lose)



The "gank" is not the result of the enemy team running ganky death-squads. The "gank" is what happens when your team plays bad, gets picked off and killed one-by-one, and then gets all their respawn times royally screwed up,

In other words, the "gank" is not the cause of your team losing. It's actually the other way around -- when your team is bad, they got 0 coordination with each other, so they're constantly killed and in respawn, and therefore, perpetually outnumbered -- which in the end, turns into a gankfest turkey shoot for the opponent team.

+1 Naiiillledd it!

When I play with my group of friends and we run into people in gank squads we win 90% of the time, our kda are usually trash by the end, but the gank squad team always breaks first (with exception to when we play on the one small map, forget its name, A is up top then right down the stairs is B) and we then group up once they break and wreck them; in my experience gank squad players usually aren't very good fighting with even odds.