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View Full Version : YAY! shinobi is unviable!!!!



FLOWJACK529
06-25-2017, 02:25 AM
why even pick shinobi? you can out play ur opponent for days but since his attacks hit like a marshmallow u can land 6-8 good hits or more and still just get cheesed and 2 shot, its so much fun playing a character that rewards u in no way besides if ur a ***** and just harass people already fighting, cheese and/or KS. Range means nothing if the hit box is as consistent and reliable as president Trump. not to mention he might as well be defending himself with a paperclip and his priority is so low that any other characters cc will cancel anything ur trying to do. dont you ever ask yourself why no one even tries to play shinobi anymore as the last 6 games I've played, I've been the sole shinobi while each team will have at least one centurion. if ur gonna release them in pairs don't just make one look cool and give the other one all the viability and usefulness cause I've never had an issue killing a shinobi with any character on the rare occasion that i face one, while the centurion is just an unstoppable spammy cc damage machine that can choose to charge his hits or hit relatively fast making it very difficult to counter or block since his moves aren't set animations.

kweassa1
06-25-2017, 02:30 AM
why even pick shinobi? you can out play ur opponent for days but since his attacks hit like a marshmallow u can land 6-8 good hits or more and still just get cheesed and 2 shot, its so much fun playing a character that rewards u in no way besides if ur a ***** and just harass people already fighting, cheese and/or KS. Range means nothing if the hit box is as consistent and reliable as president Trump. not to mention he might as well be defending himself with a paperclip and his priority is so low that any other characters cc will cancel anything ur trying to do. dont you ever ask yourself why no one even tries to play shinobi anymore as the last 6 games I've played, I've been the sole shinobi while each team will have at least one centurion. if ur gonna release them in pairs don't just make one look cool and give the other one all the viability and usefulness cause I've never had an issue killing a shinobi with any character on the rare occasion that i face one, while the centurion is just an unstoppable spammy cc damage machine that can choose to charge his hits or hit relatively fast making it very difficult to counter or block since his moves aren't set animations.

Sorry, gotta ask.

...so how are we supposed to know if it's really the Shib that's "unviable", or it's just you, the player, being "unviably bad"?

UbiJurassic
06-25-2017, 02:50 AM
Hey FLOWJACK529 and welcome to the For Honor forums! Shinobi can be a difficult hero for some players to use. His extremely low health pool makes him a rough pick, but his trade off is in his potentially high damaging combos. Landing these combos takes practice and with the recent nerf to his kick, players are still figuring out the best way to begin chaining their moves together. I know there's a few Shinobi mains around here that might be able to give you some advice on how best to play Shinobi. :)

FLOWJACK529
06-25-2017, 03:16 AM
probably cause i can kill most other characters and people with shinobi as well as ive destroyed almost every other shinobi I've faced, its just much more difficult to achieve anything as him, without being a total ***** and i don't like playing like that. its called for honor not for cheese.

FLOWJACK529
06-25-2017, 04:13 AM
Hey FLOWJACK529 and welcome to the For Honor forums! Shinobi can be a difficult hero for some players to use. His extremely low health pool makes him a rough pick, but his trade off is in his potentially high damaging combos. Landing these combos takes practice and with the recent nerf to his kick, players are still figuring out the best way to begin chaining their moves together. I know there's a few Shinobi mains around here that might be able to give you some advice on how best to play Shinobi. :)

i appriciate the advice and ill definitely continue to try and it figure out with the help of other shinobis, but im the highest level shinobi ive seen in matchmaking so far as well as have a relatively good grasp of the combos and strategies, though im not claiming to be a master. it just seems like the shinobi could just use something more where im not getting messages about how i need to stop spamming the only consistent way to deal damage which is with the sickle rain combo and since his recovery animations are so long now u cant guard or dodge in time to do anything so once hes hit by anything i feel like its gg especially when ur against any character who can cc, which is most.

Duuklah
06-25-2017, 06:41 AM
You must be on crack. Shinobi is just fine. Maybe even a lil OP

kweassa1
06-25-2017, 07:32 AM
probably cause i can kill most other characters and people with shinobi as well as ive destroyed almost every other shinobi I've faced, its just much more difficult to achieve anything as him, without being a total ***** and i don't like playing like that. its called for honor not for cheese.

Care to post a vid on the forums then? So we get to see how you play your Shib, and get the confirmation that you're not simply delusional like most other people who think they're good -- and QQ endlessly in these forums about how the game does them injustice.

Maybe we could point out a few things in what mistakes you might be making.

(ps) I mean, like, I could go around pretending I'm the best player out there and everything that gets me killed in the game is due to bad game design and not my fault... but when you grow older you don't feel all that much urge to fap on one's E-peen and lie about stuff... so nowadays I know that most situations that gets me killed is simply due to my lacking skills.

So I'm just wondering of there isn't quite a bit of exaggeration when you say things like "i can kill most other characters and people", or "destroyed almost every other shinobi I've faced"... because it'd be really easy for me to just casually remember all the cases I've won, and dump every time I lose out of memory and delude myself into thinking that I'm a good player... but that'd be unethical and simply untrue -- which doesn't help me get better in the game.

Also, when you say things like "its just much more difficult to achieve anything as him, without being a total ***** and i don't like playing like that. its called for honor not for cheese" it kinda makes people laugh... and makes them doubt your superior Shinobi skillZ... because the part they nerfed in the last patch was the cheesiest part of the shinobi skill set, where you could just repeat ddodge-kick-heavy-ddodge-kick-heavy-ddodge-kick-heavy-ddodge-kick-heavy... and mix in some ddodge-GBs.. and that would be enough to "destroy most other people".

So how you can possibly more 'cheesy' when the cheesiest part of the moveset was fixed, kinda begs an explanation.

My 2 cents.

ELDRIX_
06-25-2017, 09:03 AM
why even pick shinobi? you can out play ur opponent for days but since his attacks hit like a marshmallow u can land 6-8 good hits or more and still just get cheesed and 2 shot, its so much fun playing a character that rewards u in no way besides if ur a ***** and just harass people already fighting, cheese and/or KS. Range means nothing if the hit box is as consistent and reliable as president Trump. not to mention he might as well be defending himself with a paperclip and his priority is so low that any other characters cc will cancel anything ur trying to do. dont you ever ask yourself why no one even tries to play shinobi anymore as the last 6 games I've played, I've been the sole shinobi while each team will have at least one centurion. if ur gonna release them in pairs don't just make one look cool and give the other one all the viability and usefulness cause I've never had an issue killing a shinobi with any character on the rare occasion that i face one, while the centurion is just an unstoppable spammy cc damage machine that can choose to charge his hits or hit relatively fast making it very difficult to counter or block since his moves aren't set animations.

Yea Shinobi is finally a character that is actually hard to play how it should've been
No more 50/50 kick spam or gb
Now you have to think of mixups, mindgames etc.

XxHunterHxX
06-25-2017, 11:22 AM
Yea Shinobi is finally a character that is actually hard to play how it should've been
No more 50/50 kick spam or gb
Now you have to think of mixups, mindgames etc.

THis

Pain-Seeker
06-25-2017, 03:32 PM
I ll just leave it here , if you have time to go though it all you will surely recognize the guy knows what hes talking about . On the very bottom theres a part about shinibo that sums up everything i ve had in mind since the nerf and why i stopped playing for honor at all . I take no credits for this .
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1apZ321osvT0_AGamDXq-JGJOPNfyKKc4X-0QsEdpbXY/edit

RatedChaotic
06-25-2017, 06:06 PM
I ll just leave it here , if you have time to go though it all you will surely recognize the guy knows what hes talking about . On the very bottom theres a part about shinibo that sums up everything i ve had in mind since the nerf and why i stopped playing for honor at all . I take no credits for this .
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1apZ321osvT0_AGamDXq-JGJOPNfyKKc4X-0QsEdpbXY/edit

Thought the part where he said reduce the Conqs spam was funny as hell. He basically was nerfing the Conq even more.

Knight_Raime
06-25-2017, 06:07 PM
I ll just leave it here , if you have time to go though it all you will surely recognize the guy knows what hes talking about . On the very bottom theres a part about shinibo that sums up everything i ve had in mind since the nerf and why i stopped playing for honor at all . I take no credits for this .
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1apZ321osvT0_AGamDXq-JGJOPNfyKKc4X-0QsEdpbXY/edit

While I agree with a ton from that document I don't agree with everything.
Shin's kick was already plenty reactable before they nerfed it. What the changed removed was the ability to safely initate using the kick from range.
You can still use it as a reactionary thing and land it most of the time.

Like centurions kick you can't just randomly throw it out. Which is a good thing. I can agree that all the nerfs together might have been overkill. But saying shinobi is no longer competitive viable is just wrong. If his kick was the only thing that made him viable there is no way he'd ever have been considered in the same tier is warlord. And it's just clear proof too many people don't know how to use the kit.

Archeun
06-25-2017, 07:44 PM
You must just suck because I was just in a game with a shinobi who killed 3 of my team, I rezzed all of them and the shinobi then killed all of us again. 1 Shinobi killed 4 of us twice basically.

JibletHunter
06-25-2017, 09:05 PM
You must just suck because I was just in a game with a shinobi who killed 3 of my team, I rezzed all of them and the shinobi then killed all of us again. 1 Shinobi killed 4 of us twice basically.

This should seldom happen with any character. It sounds like you were probably SEVERELY out-skilled. the document was a good read. I would not revert the kick changes (solely b/c kick spamming is not a fun mechanic for the game - not because it was in any way unreactable), but agree with a small health buff. I regularly get 1 shot in 4's elimination if the opponent has a damage buff/feats active and a group fight is under way.

ViciousOphidian
06-25-2017, 09:53 PM
That is no way to speak about the President of the United States. I'll be sending a screenshot of this thread to the authorities. Good day, sir.

Pain-Seeker
06-25-2017, 11:35 PM
The thing i loved about shinobi was that he actualy had a way to start a fight .With his gb mix up it was interesting but once they removed that and slowed down the kick , the double dodge is now use less as an initativ attk and shinobi has pretty much joined the staring contest. If you want to use it as a counter to someones attk, its pretty risky . Dodging lights is harder than parrying them in my opinion at least and when it comes to heavies you can just feint them and have whole duration of double dodge for a GB . And yes the 50/50 was a BIG part of his strenght . Most of his mix ups goes after the kick . Ofc i know you can bait ppl with many options but nerf as a whole made shinobi into PK with worse lights and with 30 hp less. I know you can still use the quadra kick with ranged GB mix up . But my reason for leaving for honor for now at least is that devs just overreact on ppls crying. Just like with warden . I never had any problem with vortex but they are just nerfing it because ppl are crying its OP and will continue to do so until theres nothing more to nerf . Iam still checking forums almost everyday and watch every warriors den with hope that they acutaly learn how to balance their game properly . And I as well dont agree to everything but if they were to implement everything , the game would be in a lot better state than it is now .

Pain-Seeker
06-25-2017, 11:38 PM
Shinobi was,is, and will be a noob killer . Are you sure you re just not in that catagory ? . Now matter how I look at it a shinobi fighting 1vs4 is pretty much impossible unless the player was a freaking god .

Pain-Seeker
06-25-2017, 11:47 PM
I dont really see a nerf in that . I didnt spend much time on conq so iam not the one who should be talking about his changes but to me they seem pretty reasonable . Not only you are able to go for a shield bash from full stance but you get a guarenteed heavy if it hits , you get a chain that is actualy usable in this game , which is rare, you can feint lights and heavies better , you get unblockable on charged and un techable GB on it was removed . Only nerf i see in it is that you can actualy get guard broken if players dodge it and stamina management . In my opinion it seems fair compared to the buff he would get . As he said higher risk , higher reward .

Knight_Raime
06-26-2017, 01:03 AM
The thing i loved about shinobi was that he actualy had a way to start a fight .With his gb mix up it was interesting but once they removed that and slowed down the kick , the double dodge is now use less as an initativ attk and shinobi has pretty much joined the staring contest. If you want to use it as a counter to someones attk, its pretty risky . Dodging lights is harder than parrying them in my opinion at least and when it comes to heavies you can just feint them and have whole duration of double dodge for a GB . And yes the 50/50 was a BIG part of his strenght . Most of his mix ups goes after the kick . Ofc i know you can bait ppl with many options but nerf as a whole made shinobi into PK with worse lights and with 30 hp less. I know you can still use the quadra kick with ranged GB mix up . But my reason for leaving for honor for now at least is that devs just overreact on ppls crying. Just like with warden . I never had any problem with vortex but they are just nerfing it because ppl are crying its OP and will continue to do so until theres nothing more to nerf . Iam still checking forums almost everyday and watch every warriors den with hope that they acutaly learn how to balance their game properly . And I as well dont agree to everything but if they were to implement everything , the game would be in a lot better state than it is now .

I both agree and disagree. He had a way to start a fight with people who didn't understand him or are average at best. smart turtles didn't really struggle against him. Literally all you had to do pre patch and post patch was trade with the kick and he'd die.

I never used his 50/50. If I was coming from out of range i'd either double dodge into a delayed kick or double dodge into light light. I only ever GBed dodge happy people. I'll need to test to see if that's still possible. I disagree about calling him a worse pk. PK has lights and zone. if you get a GB off and can land her max punish there is that. She doesn't have the mix up level shinobi does. Shinobi still has his light parry punish as well.

I don't believe they have ever over reacted to anything post launch. the only "horrible" change I believe they made was what they did to oni charge. it needed nerfing. just not that way. Just as I can agree that shin might have been hit a bit too hard. But overall he's still very good. I'd be willing to say he moved from out of S tier with warlord to A tier. but i'm not 100% comfortable with that statement.

Miadous
06-26-2017, 08:54 AM
Before patch: Shinobi was fun to use against people that couldn't time their dodges to avoid the kick. He could punish turtles, especially ones that didn't know to just attack the shinobi during the kick and win the trade, Shinobi has no health and that little heavy attack after a kick is sad.

After nerf patch: Slightly less fun to play as, less reliable turtle openers, but just start the kick further away so they can't stop it if you really want to kick. Without the kick though, shinobi is better off turtling like the rest of the heroes. I guess you can try to feint a quick heavy, into a light attack tap tap. Or just try to light attack spam and hope the opponent isn't fast enough to parry you. Anything else, you're just going to die against a good player. Ranged moves against players that are looking at you will get you killed. Ranged is really only for harassing others that are fighting and don't see you.

I still enjoy using Shinobi occasionally, he's at prestige 4 now, up 2 prestige levels post-patch. He needs to do more damage. He's an assassin, but it takes him forever to kill something. The health bar indicates a glass cannon character, which he is far from that. He has one option to do damage, find a way to land into sickle rain. Land a ranged heavy then rolling or landing the kick, which will lead to sickle rain because that's all he has to damage anyone. Counter into a light attack is probably the only other way to see someone's health bar move. Basically, Shinobi is just a nat, pestering people all over the battlefield. He's definitely not a hero to be feared.