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View Full Version : What went wrong? Assassin's Creed Wisecrack video



RA503
06-24-2017, 08:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5crXeoBo2w

Wisecrack do a video about AC movie but some of the arguments stand for the games as well.

The video claim that Assasin vs Templar struggle mades no sense because both have the same ideology,this tread is to discuss that video .

strigoi1958
06-24-2017, 11:09 PM
The video says the book although based on real people is fiction and although the game and movie may be loosely based on the book.... it is just fiction based on fiction so it makes no sense to say an interpretation is wrong.

Abelzorus-Prime
06-24-2017, 11:34 PM
These guys made the same mistake Altair made in AC1, thinking that the Maxim of the Creed was a call to Nihilisim he killed an innocent and disobeyed the other tenets of the Creed. It was only until later that he realised that the Assassins interpretation Creed was a call to Skepticism.

This eventually leads the Assassins to a Libertarian struggle to free mankind from the control of authority. A Templar could believe in the Maxim but this leads them to Alamut way of thinking, that they should create rules and order because humans are chaotic and base.

AnimusLover
06-25-2017, 03:13 PM
Was about to post this video. I completely disagree with it and think the uploader doesn't get that the line is open to interpretation.

cawatrooper9
06-26-2017, 10:41 PM
I think an important part of the Creed for these games is that it's flexible. For instance, while it is almost always opposed diametrically to the Templars, it's also able to be applied specifically to historical situations.

Compare and contrast Freedom Cry and ACIII, for instance. In Freedom Cry, Adewale works to, among other things, free Haitian slaves. In ACIII, Connor sees and is enraged by a lot of injustice, but centers his efforts mostly on the war.

Neither follow some sort of blind doctrine, but have interpreted the Creed to how they feel they should act.


That being said... well, Bioshock's meta "Would you kindly" twist is still infamous to this day. Could you imagine if Assassins Creed,one of the biggest current game series, managed to string along gamers for over a decade before finally revealing that the Assassins have been manipulated throughout history, just as the Alamut Assassins were manipulated by Hassan?

pirate1802
06-28-2017, 11:02 AM
The video says the book although based on real people is fiction and although the game and movie may be loosely based on the book.... it is just fiction based on fiction so it makes no sense to say an interpretation is wrong.

Fiction can be logically consistent or inconsistent. Mass Effect ending controversy happened because its ending was inconsistent with the themes laid out by the rest of the series. Anyhow....

I think where the video misses the point is that it entirely forgets about the actually tenets of the Creed, the three rules that Assassins have to follow. That is the thing that differentiates the Assassins from the Templars, not this "nothing is true, everything is permitted" saying which is just a vague observation that's supposed to grant wisdom and not meant to be followed to the letter. I doubt all Assassins are hardcore atheists (Connor certainly wasn't) and believe in moral nihilism. It's similar to how some constitutions have laws and directives. While laws are meant to be followed steadfastly, the directives are only there to guide the lawmakers on how the laws should be formulated. They're not there to be followed themselves. So of course, if one goes by that maxim obviously they would find parallels between the two groups because guess what? They both have similar origins and ambitions. Only their paths differ, because each group chose to interpret this saying differently. One decided that since there is no divine authority, the wellbeing of man rests with man himself and nobody else, while the other one deduced that in the absence of a divine authority there must be another all-powerful authority to maintain civilization. Somewhere I guess the games are also to be blamed for giving a huge screentime to this maxim as opposed to the actual three laws.

One thing I do agree with the video on is I wish the games delved more into the philosophy of the groups. I dare say the Templars have a more explored philosophy than the Assassins, though this may have something to do with the fact that each dying Templar gets to give a nice lengthy exposition on his cause before dying while no such courtesy is granted to the Assassins, whose philosophy as shown in the games boils down to "we will stop you!". The Assassins need to be more proactive than reactive. And the games should showcase their ideology more deeply than just stopping Templars.

strigoi1958
06-28-2017, 01:10 PM
I guess it is how we interpret "nothing is true, everything is permitted"

To me, it is saying, everything we have believed about the world is a lie, having gained knowledge about the 1st Civ and pieces of Eden it is similar to taking the red pill in the Matrix movie. Once we have that knowledge we see the world is structured based on laws and socially accepted practises that we no longer have to believe or follow "Nothing is true", we understand that as an assassin our purpose is to battle templars and get the pieces of Eden. It is far more important than the every day lives of individuals, religions, politics or even nations or continents. Therefore "Everything is permitted".... if it is imperative to the goal of saving the world or creating a perfect world, then even murder is acceptable.... even though we have "stay my blade from the innocent"

But yes, you are right that a little more depth from the assassins perspective would make people happier.

pirate1802
06-28-2017, 02:32 PM
I think the best explanation of this saying was given by Ezio in Revelations, which again this video seems to have ignored. "Nothing is true" means all the deities and gods are false, as he said. And "everything is permitted" means there isn't any divinely ordained morality system that'll tell you what is the right thing to do and what isn't. You are free to do anything but you must also bear the consequences of your choices.

This last bit can explain a question raised in the video: "if everything is permitted, what is stopping me from pushing my grandma off the stairs?" The answer is nothing, but then you must also bear the emotional and mental trauma of killing a family member that'll probably drive you nuts, and also the disdain of the rest of your family and jailtime (along with all the fun that comes with it) were your handiwork ever to see the light of day.

strigoi1958
06-28-2017, 02:40 PM
Absolutely right. And also it allows us to intervene in matters that are minor social issues that our conscience wants us to stop even though they are not important to our goals. Catching a poisoner or thief, beating up a bully are of no concern to the brotherhood... but "Everything is permitted" it is like a way of saying there is flexibility in what we think is important as a human, not just what is important on a global Assassin/ Templar war scale.

It adds humanity to the characters. :)

People who choose to not like the ideas behind the game can find fault without looking for reason... I think those of us who play AC games come to understand why it is so ambiguous.

joshoolhorst
06-29-2017, 12:48 PM
Maria: What does our meaning Nothing is true Everything is permitted mean to you Aguilar?

"To say, 'nothing is true' is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say, 'everything is permitted,' is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic..."
- Ezio Auditore Da Firenze

They could've just copy paste it most audience wouldn't really over think it.

But you know what is funny when people watch the Ezio scene in Florence when Savonarola get's burned alive some people think it just means ''We are free to choice to like something or not it's our choice and thoughts'' some people see it like that and you know what I really like that to it's just one of those things about Assassin's Creed why you can either like/dislike or feel conflicted over the ideology behind the Creed and the Templar Order:)

strigoi1958
06-29-2017, 01:27 PM
@joshoolhorst

you are right. Maybe it was not meant by the author to make us feel conflicted but it does that very well in the games. We often find ourselves in situations where we are divided by duty and justice.