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Vaulcul
06-23-2017, 09:08 PM
Hi,

I'm one of the many fans that have been waiting for this game for years, and I'm very excited to purchase and play when it is released.

That said, I was concerned about the cursing/swearing that was part of the trailer, the F-Bomb was dropped soooo many times in just the first few lines of dialogue. Not because I can't take people swearing, but because it seemed like it just didn't fit in the Beyond Good and Evil universe.

I always felt that this universe was a fantastic and approachable series by any age... But, with the language that was displayed in the trailer at E3, it made me feel that the series was no longer approachable by the younger audience. I would not want my nieces and nephews (who are rather young) to watch the trailer... and by extension, play the game, which is sad, because I've been so excited about this game, that I'd love to share it with them.

I'm not the only person that thinks this either, I've found other forums on the topic of BGE2 and how out of place the swearing felt in this universe, see the list below:

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/211343-beyond-good-and-evil-2/75451606
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/06/what-beyond-good-evil-2-is-now-and-what-its-creators-dream-it-can-be/ (comments at end of article)
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/6gv6jn/beyond_good_and_evil_2_e3_2017_official/ (people drop unfiltered f-bombs in this forum)


It'd be really cool to see that the game is flexible enough to cater to both ends of the spectrum... But, somehow I doubt it.:(

Kingy77
06-23-2017, 11:51 PM
The themes in the original Beyond Good & Evil were, in my opinion, much too dark for anything but a mature audience. In the same vein, I absolutely don't see why there shouldn't be swearing in the new instalment. :|

Dude, you should watch some Disney movies... Bambi: His mother dies in the first minutes of the movie. Finding Nemo: All their babies die in the first minute of the movie. I could go on... I often get embarrassed when I show Disney movies to my kid and think "Wow... I never figured it was so dark and cruel when I saw it as a kid!". Thankfully, there is no swearing in those movie, but it is still pretty freaking dark sometimes. :)


I was concerned about the cursing/swearing that was part of the trailer, the F-Bomb was dropped soooo many times in just the first few lines of dialogue. Not because I can't take people swearing, but because it seemed like it just didn't fit in the Beyond Good and Evil universe.

I always felt that this universe was a fantastic and approachable series by any age... But, with the language that was displayed in the trailer at E3, it made me feel that the series was no longer approachable by the younger audience. I would not want my nieces and nephews (who are rather young) to watch the trailer... and by extension, play the game, which is sad, because I've been so excited about this game, that I'd love to share it with them.

I felt the same way when I watched the trailer, both about the language of the characters, and the far more mature and realistic graphical style. Now that I'm replaying BGE1, almost 10 years after my last time, I'm wondering if that soft, cute and reassuring level design was not a major part of the game's artistic quality.

flkiteboardguy
10-27-2017, 01:18 AM
I too have been waiting for this game for years. The first BG&E blew me away and is one of the top 5 games of all time in my opinion. I was ecstatic to hear the announcements and rushed to watch the trailer. I couldn't watch it all due to the language. I'm 42 now and refuse to buy a game that I can't play in front of my 3 kids. What's worse, I won't let my kids play which is really sad if the sequel is anywhere close to as fun as the first one. The movie Avatar was published with a "family" language setting. I hope Ubisoft does the same for this game as well. I'd even be willing to pay an extra $5-$10 for the feature.

How do we get this message to the developers?

Legion-495
10-27-2017, 11:22 AM
Whats weird is everyone is like "Oh no ma kidz" xD While you would think if they develop it for the original fanbase those people are a lot older now.
And we will see how it pans out. If there is as you mention a family friendly version that should be free imo. Like a option to disable blood in some games(People use that?^^).

Honestly I would be really surprised if kids those days have never been in contact with swearing at all... I mean the Internet is a thing and like almost any kid gets a Smartphone^^ Not saying there aren't exceptions.

How do we get this message to the developers?
As of date we wait for the test version. Then we can judge if it is as much swearing as the trailer... personally I believe that is all reserved for Knox tho.

Anyway I agree that the whole game is made for a mature audience considering the theme... and we do not even know how brutal combat or the city scene can be, which will probably a more important thing than words.

ElPrimordial
10-27-2017, 05:23 PM
They already aware of this issue and have talked with Tim Shaffer from Double Fine since they implemented a cursing-free mode in their game Brutal Legend. Watch some videos of the game to know how it works. In any case we will be able to give feedback about this subject in future Space Monkey Program surveys.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVQTegqgkFK/?taken-by=michelancel

The link is Michel Ancel instagram post with a direct answer from him about it, I'm just repeating what he wrote there.

LaxativePayne
10-27-2017, 07:47 PM
I don't care if the game is rated M and has swearing, but I will have a problem if the whole thing is like that trailer. It reminds me too much of GTA. Rockstar's other games, such as Bully and Red Dead Redemption, have better writing (in my opinion) because they don't rely on characters swearing every line to make it feel "mature."

bloodysugar
11-22-2017, 02:07 PM
Red Dead Redemption is so full of swearing, that's a very bad example of good writing (witch it is) without "bad words".

To me the use of several Fs in a row was just some kind of statement : this is not a childish game and it's gonna be rock n' roll. And I like that. By the way Ancel said it wasn't the way to speak of all characters. Some may curse, others not, it depends on their personalities and helps to understand them.

I'm not pleased about the cursing free mode. It will ask a lot of work for a futile purpose, it will consume time, efforts and a lot of money, that would better be used on other tasks. So to make economies they will restrict the use of curses and wont be allowed to do whatever they would have felt good to do in other circumstances.

The game will approach very dark and mature subjects as slavery, sex exploitation, gangsterism... very likely you'll have to kill lot of guys too. Adults caring their children hear curses in videogames (while they do every day at school) but don't mind they are having fun with killing, have an absurd morality, so absurd that it harms a game development for bulls***. If you want to protect your children don't buy them games including strong violence. Good luck with that.

I hope the production will forget about this absurd counter-productive idea asked by disciples of some politically correct dogmas. Because of subjects approached by the game it will be Pegi 16 or 18 anyway, so move on.

Legion-495
11-23-2017, 12:24 AM
Since it is in the latest posts again^^
I like just totally saw Jak II fitting the game here. They did fine without to hard language.

ghowley
12-12-2017, 02:55 AM
This topic is the entire reason I joined the Space Monkey program. Beyond Good and Evil is my favorite video game, hands down. I've replayed the game 6 times to completion over the years since its release. When I saw the trailer, I was very sad to see a game that resembled the game I'd loved very little. I've shared the original with my 9-year-old daughter and loved watching her play through the same levels I did. I'm not going to be sharing a game that includes F-bombs with her.

Please please remove the language and stay with the spirit of the original game.

Flowpiece
12-12-2017, 01:00 PM
With the background of the game and the potential aroung hybrids. Even tough i played and love(d) BGE1 I would more than happy to create something darker, more mature... I think it's pretty logical regarding the theme

g4zh
12-12-2017, 05:33 PM
I understand your parent position, but I don't have kids so for me it's not a problem.

About the fact that the first game was more child-friendly I kind of understand it. But we weren't dealing with mafia guys or even pirates. And Ancel respond about that in a video (I can't remember which one), he was saying that yes these characters do have a strong language, but it's due to there culture/origin/position. So nice guys, autority people or polite persons won't talk like that, but yeah bad guys do swear and curse all time.. And that's something that can get me out of a movie for exemple when bad people never swear or use "child insults". It's just a question of coherence. He was also saying about that the difference of look (cartoony before, realistic now) is due to the technology that was available before. Now that he can create a deep and realistic world he will do so. I understand his position.

What they could do is using hiden insults, like we do in France with "mercredi" instead of "*****" (****), created from the actual culture, like "starkos head!" or "son of hybrid!". But they need to stay focus on the gobal coherence of their world, if they want it to be believable!

inthecoconut
12-12-2017, 07:32 PM
I suspect this will get an M rating anyway, swearing aside. Given the dev blogs we've seen so far, we're dealing with some pretty adult concepts, such as the existence of hybrid slavery. I personally didn't even notice the swearing, while it was the first thing my husband pointed out when he watched the trailer, which is funny because he hasn't even played the original whereas I have.

I don't want it to be forced, as swearing for the sake of swearing gets tedious very fast, but I also don't want them to censor the game. If they envisioned a much more mature, grittier version, then I'd like them to stay true to that.

The-Pancaker
12-12-2017, 11:47 PM
I have to agree.
I do not mind swearing in general. I would be guilty swearing myself.

But looking back to BG&E 1, I respect that the language was kept descent.

Removing the F*** bomb would nevertheless lack some intensity.

British gave some "bloody" good example how to talk the "heck" of their "freaking" language. :rolleyes:

Still interesting to see the opinions diverging. it might be an evolution of the generation, who knows.

Legion-495
12-13-2017, 10:05 AM
In the latest Report (the only one as of date) Ancel mentioned that this game is more mature than the first one.
Could easily be that this is the reason they went this way. Since nothing is set in stone it is not a big deal for me.
Not a game for children and to be honest the first one never was too.

NerkuFrench
12-14-2017, 07:19 PM
Here's my 2 cents about the topic.

I found some thoughts here that I agree with - the game is prolly going to be M rated anyhow because of general violence in it; there are clever ways to make cursing less apparent (e.g "frack" in Battlestar Galactica was pretty cool); the world would feel fake without some characters cursing, etc. From recent experience, in Dreamfall Chapters there was an NPC that said f*** A LOT, and while I don't swear myself much or seek it, I loved seeing someone like that around, it adds diversity and authenticity for me.

Some games do have a profanity filters and players can choose whether to have it turned on, but I don't care much about that feature. Personally, I think it's more important to teach people (kids and adults alike) how to deal with things they don't like, can't always avoid them. Being annoyed by cursing could be intended part of the experience when playing that game. It's impossible to forbid all things someone might find offensive.

KIERROK
12-21-2017, 07:16 PM
While I understand your dislike of swearing in this game VS. the original. However, there's a few things you need to know, 1: the original was 13-15 years ago and the ESRB ratings was different then. There was a big blow up about San Andreas having a miny sex game, hidden by gameshark codes. Now games are different, because most of us who were younger then are old and, SHOULD, be mature enough to deal with swearing. Plus, it was said by devs that we're pirates, and the main thing that makes you a pirate is to say WTF you want regardless of the F-ing rules. Going to brothels, getting drunk. Etc. Pirates were cutesy, they were everything but child friendly.

Old Loony Tunes had racial (Bug's several black face moments, now censorsed), Foghorn Leghorn and Yosemite Sam yelling "YOU RICHARD!!!" "RICHARD-HEAD" or "He's the head-Richard." They were calling another character a dik (really, this and aşş were censored?) or dik head. Now, while I'll admit "How the F are you, you F-ing Fat F. Still sitting on that F-ing fat as of yours you fat F." Yeah, way too much. Still, I personally would like a mature rated game, because I am 27, and I'm no longer a child like when the original Beyond Good and Evil. I respect your parenting, but just saying times are changing.

Legion-495
12-21-2017, 10:48 PM
And it is logical that the people following BGE are 15 years older now.

Kidnard
12-24-2017, 10:14 AM
I think you must take the two BGE like a complete different game that grow up in maturity with time, swearing is if you like a part of : " realism and character personality ", the game will include a lot of mature content and you can't change that, and for your younger nibbling you could give them the first one to play until they are mature enough to give them the second one !

Kingy77
12-25-2017, 09:59 AM
Merry Christmas folks! ;)

More mature language and contents, a little bit of "natural" and contextual swearing... all that is OK. But they really pushed the swearing too far in the trailer! The dialog between Knox and Zhou Yuzhu is just awful... It's like they tried to place as many F-words as they could in one sentence. I don't see how this could help the first official trailer of a video game.
But I'm sure they won't do that again. :rolleyes:

Legion-495
12-25-2017, 10:56 PM
Well with everyone taking the trailer as canon for the whole swearing
(despite we all know that development startet just that time).
Yet nobody seems to realize how rushed the whole BGE2 announcement was.
Announcement Trailer compared to probably real actual Release-Trailer will be a different story.

I don't think there was much of a overview while producing that Trailer. Obviously they wanted to really get the message of a brutal world across and failed very hard tho xD. Seems like sombody decided that F-Bombs make the world brutal and the characters pirate-ish (If they at least would have had mixed up different words^^).

Still better than a EA commercial (Not very hard tho).

Take it with a grain of salt... very much of it.
A rushed Trailer, a not even developed game with focus on feedback and they told us that they work on something for better feedback (Obviously one feedback would be to tune the swear-meter a bit down). Not like they wouldn't know this thread exists.
You feel that invisible guy behind you while you write here? It was a Community Manager! :D
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/meme/images/c/c5/Wachin.png/revision/latest?cb=20150314144718

bitebug2003
12-26-2017, 12:09 AM
I'm still undecided.

The original had charm despite the dark tone - this iteration doesn't :S
I feel uncomfortable about what the finished game will be like

Legion-495
12-27-2017, 10:21 AM
I'm still undecided.

The original had charm despite the dark tone - this iteration doesn't :S
I feel uncomfortable about what the finished game will be like

Realisticly it is not the same BGE anymore, just the universe. But I feel you.
We have still some shaping to do! I mean as far as I know the thing is Pre-Pre-Closed Alpha
My main concern is that too much feedback would mainly ruin the game and I still think swearing will be the main thing about Knox.
Thinking back, I'm surprised how well BGE did tell the story.

ElPrimordial
12-28-2017, 01:44 AM
A rushed Trailer,

I suppose you're talking about the script of that video because there is nothing rushed in that trailer: the quality of the work is outstanding, its a real pleasure watch it and rewatch it and observe all those little details they put in every building and construction, vehicle and character. Even the script with all those F-bombs and such, was carefully designed to provoke and appeal the masses since BGE 1 despite be such an wonderful experience is a niche game. Sincerely I can't see something rushed on it...

Legion-495
12-28-2017, 12:03 PM
I suppose you're talking about the script of that video because there is nothing rushed in that trailer: the quality of the work is outstanding, its a real pleasure watch it and rewatch it and observe all those little details they put in every building and construction, vehicle and character. Even the script with all those F-bombs and such, was carefully designed to provoke and appeal the masses since BGE 1 despite be such an wonderful experience is a niche game. Sincerely I can't see something rushed on it...

I think it is to some degree rushed because it was not planned to have a E3 announcement and I doubt that even if this was created in house that it was at the same location.
It was very likely made outside of Montpellier. But we do not know. It just reminded me about Deadalic Entertainment which mentioned something similar in a dev comment once in the game "The Whispered World" where they ended up creating the animation in house, because communication to external animators was difficult and the product was "meh".

The-Pancaker
01-08-2018, 05:31 PM
I agree. Espacially when Zhou Yuzhu gets played... bleeding from his forehead... (I would be pissed too)
As much swearing as words in his sentence.

KIERROK
01-08-2018, 08:17 PM
I agree. Espacially when Knox gets played... bleeding from his forehead... (I would be pissed too)
As much swearing as words in his sentence.

Actually, that was Zhou Yuzhu. Knox is the monkey (chimpanzee)

To everyone, wtf is he? A monkey or chimpanzee? I just figured Zhou calling him a "monkey" was as a derogatory racial slur, not his actually species.

magiske
01-08-2018, 08:53 PM
I loved it. It was like you know, actually people talking actually language. Instead of being like.. WHAT !! F* BOMB 's!!! Grow up.. It's mostly the US that have the issue with **** and stuff.. When ppl goes fudge, effing, or even *beep* .. It's about the meaning of the word not the word itself.. *Sigh*

The-Pancaker
01-09-2018, 02:15 PM
Actually, that was Zhou Yuzhu. Knox is the monkey (chimpanzee)


Of course Knox is the monkey / chimpanzee / ape... after watching the last report (a bit late) they were talking about knox statue in the back... and I messed up the names...

I feel stupid. :( :( shame on me...

KIERROK
01-09-2018, 08:13 PM
I feel stupid. :( :( shame on me...

I wouldn't go that far. You made a mistake. Besides, they only say Knox's name (actually pet name Knoxy) once in trailer, the rest were said after by devs. So, yeah, your confusion is justified. Although, their name's are too said in right side bar on here bgegame.com

ElPrimordial
01-10-2018, 07:51 PM
Of course Knox is the monkey / chimpanzee / ape... after watching the last report (a bit late) they were talking about knox statue in the back... and I messed up the names...

I feel stupid. :( :( shame on me...

Everybody makes mistakes, just \_(ツ)_/ and laugh of it ;)

The-Pancaker
01-11-2018, 06:28 AM
I wouldn't go that far. You made a mistake.

Everybody makes mistakes, just \_(ツ)_/ and laugh of it ;)

Thanks. :)

Any way, back to the main topic, it feels this topic is quite controversial... many for the pro many for the cons...

I really wonder what the devs will be going for...

Another thought linking to a thread I started on multi lingual...
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1822163-Multi-lingual-game
We could also use the way the different culture/language usually sware...

Being in china for a business trip, I did not heard them swear once.
But in USA, the colour of swearing is definitely at a different level (especially in big cities)
In UK, they would use alternative (bloody, darn, freaking)

I believe that incorporating the language and way to speak to the culture of the character would make it quite authentic.
(And it might make everyone agree... maybe...)

What do you think?

KIERROK
01-11-2018, 07:28 AM
Being in china for a business trip, I did not heard them swear once.
But in USA, the colour of swearing is definitely at a different level (especially in big cities)
In UK, they would use alternative (bloody, darn, freaking)

I believe that incorporating the language and way to speak to the culture of the character would make it quite authentic.
(And it might make everyone agree... maybe...)

What do you think?

I think the reason for the colourful speech here in the US, is because too many take "Freedom of Speech" too literal and not as it was intended "You can disagree and call our leader what you want and you won't get arrested, but you can't say I want to kill <insert name>." Free Speech, within a limit. But back to point.

I'm sure we'll have cultural slurs, if I read your message correctly. I've mentioned Assassin's Creed and Wildlands, before in other threads, because they're examples what Ubisoft can and does do. In those games there's Arabic, Italian, French, Native American and Spanish expressions. Both semi-clean and Zhou's piggy mouth. It would be surprised if there wasn't any Indian or Asian language expression. Maybe you bump into an old Asian lady, who angrily mutters something in her language. Not too out there, but something like "Damn kids (hybrid/halfbreed) No respect." I think it's been said that it'll be based around the characters. Knox and Zhou maybe the "I DGAF type" where another it always after Knox "KNOX! I've told you, stop swearing!" Knox: "AHH stfu."

Personally, I don't mind the swearing. I won't act innocent, I swear, usually when I rage at a game *innocent whistle* I'll blurt out about 2/3 of the book. But my day to day life, I don't go "YO YO MF, what's up my Bs and hoes, and punk as Ns" nonono... But it just doesn't bother me... That is with exceptions. Over use of F MF, and N in general (latter like in gangster films), then yeah. That's where I'll say "Too much, dial it back a few notches."

Legion-495
01-12-2018, 01:06 AM
I think this thread alone will have the impact of getting to a easy digestible level of swearing.
https://d12pmmbqk6r2v2.cloudfront.net/assets/images/pages/md/more-optimistic-outlooks_sm.jpg
I think we will have a dialed down version from the Trailer to some degree. IMO Knoxes(is that how you would write that?)

"YO YO MF"
Was too much for me, I disliked that^^ Otherwise it was more or less quite okay for me.

KIERROK
01-12-2018, 01:49 AM
I think this thread alone will have the impact of getting to a easy digestible level of swearing. I think we will have a dialed down version from the Trailer to some degree. IMO Knoxes(is that how you would write that?)

Was too much for me, I disliked that^^ Otherwise it was more or less quite okay for me.

It would be Knox's, sounds weird, but it's true. Knoxes would be more than one: 1 Knox, 2 Knoxes.
And yeah, like I've said, I'm not bother by swearing, only when over used. In Dragon Age Inquisition, there's a character named The Iron Bull. He'd swear at the oddest of times. It's because of his character. He's like a child who discovers a new word that he likes. He uses it because it sounds cool and doesn't care of its meaning, or if its usage is appropriate or not.

KIERROK
01-28-2018, 09:08 PM
I apologize for the revival of this, but I just found this on my Twitter notifications... So, yeah... Enjoy! And Viewer discretion is advised for my reply lol
https://twitter.com/NatGeo/status/957693550170386432

UbiBorghal
01-29-2018, 03:42 PM
Well, from the trailer we knew at least one hybrid primate swears... didn't know chimps could swear, too. Thanks for the link, Kierrok!

KIERROK
01-29-2018, 05:09 PM
Well, from the trailer we knew at least one hybrid primate swears... didn't know chimps could swear, too. Thanks for the link, Kierrok!

I know right? ;) I logged in and the first tweet I see in my trending(?), was from NatGeo. I was like... Really? Chimps swearing? I got to read this :rolleyes:

kenonu
01-31-2018, 05:34 PM
Good point there, but I'm sure a lot of people don't care, so it could help if there's a PG13 version and an explicit version most games these days are like this,
theres a lot to consider about this, the game set in a futuristic modern world being created here with pirates, hybrids, explorers etc.. so such explicit languages will exist in this world, plus the feel of the game is not cartoony you might really consider playing without your kids and I'm a tiny bit sure this game was made for those who played the first BGE game a decade and a half ago in mind, which means you are old enough to play what is being brought to the table.

IT-Tom
02-02-2018, 11:08 PM
I really like this new style of the game. I love this trailer and I want the game to be like it. My opinion :o

atubaboun
02-03-2018, 12:51 AM
I don't think characters swearing is a problem, it's just part of their personality.
And its not a bad thing to use it, in most cases it shows familiarity between people in a dialogue.
And who one swears with is an indicator of his level of ease to make contact in some other cases.

As long as languages are diverse in their style, their lexiques, i have nothing against swears, insults or whatever word is used. Words convey ideas, different people will have different ideas, in my opinion it's quite simple

I'm sure the game won't be overwhelmingly full of "bad language" anyway, just enough to make it real, even it it contrasts with BGE, its not a bad thing.

jorjett25
02-03-2018, 11:09 PM
I liked the swearing. It may not fit the old BGE world, but it looks like it fits this one. Also this game isn't intended for kids so for those saying you can't play it in front of them, then dont.

flkiteboardguy
05-14-2018, 03:12 AM
Many of these posts are talking about parents concerned about their kids and how the players of BGE are now older. I'm posting from the perspective of one of the original players. I will not buy this game if there is no option to turn off the language. The kid aspect comes into play with the idea of introducing a new generation to the series. If I don't play, my young teenagers will not see it. Good luck getting them to pick up the game 10 years from now when a new version comes out. If you're an older gamer and don't believe me, just ask your teens to play a Mario game and see their reaction... I can't see why Ubisoft would want to take such a risk with a clear financial impact when the ability to turn off the language has been incorporated in other games and movies already.

WiwarK9
05-14-2018, 09:13 AM
Do you all realise swearing is the least chocking thing on this game ?
There will be brothel, human slavery, gladiator fights etc etc.
Imagine a gta where you can mute swearing...
I think they choose to put that much swearing on the trailer because they wanted to be clear: it's a mature game now and if you give it to your children you take responsability for it.
And come on when we were child we played worst.

Legion-495
05-14-2018, 11:22 AM
And Michel enforced it at the brothels question.
He said it is a mature game.