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View Full Version : Single Hero Pick for Ranked



xECS DESTROYER
06-22-2017, 02:24 PM
I am a huge advocate for implementing single pick for the ranked modes that will release in the future. When looking at 4's modes in particular, they require proper coordination in a competitive match. To further increase the intensity, there should be different characters used so the team has to play to their advantages.

When looking at Rainbow Six Siege, that game has a very competitive scene because of the tactics required based on the maps and operators you select. It would have been ridiculous if a team could run three Blackbeards pre-patch with a Thermite and Thatcher. If they had allowed that, no one would want to try their ranked mode.

With For Honor, there are very strong team-oriented heroes such as Centurion, Shugoki, and Warlord. Having multiple of them on the same team would defeat the purpose of strategizing a plan around those players. Centurion and Warlord in particular are amazing heroes, so there should not be an option to have 2 or more on the same team when they can basically do it all...taking away the strategic planning that should be required for a competitive game.

I have a lot of experience in Rainbow playing Blackbeard pre-patch and Warlord in For Honor, and I can say that having multiple heroes would turn me off from any competitive game type.

Dude_of_Valor
06-22-2017, 02:33 PM
Makes sense for ranked matches.

Infact by implementing this, it might actually improve 4v4 matches as people will want to nail down there teams classes and roles on the battlefield before stepping into ranked matches.

Draghmar
06-22-2017, 02:35 PM
[...] It would have been ridiculous if a team could run three Blackbeards pre-patch with a Thermite and Thatcher. If they had allowed that, no one would want to try their ranked mode.
And you are really so sure about that? You're really so confident to speak for the entire playerbase of this game? Or maybe they appointed you as their voice? :P


I have a lot of experience in Rainbow playing Blackbeard pre-patch and Warlord in For Honor, and I can say that having multiple heroes would turn me off from any competitive game type.
You see, funny thing - it would turn me off knowing that there's a chance that I couldn't play class I want because of some artificial restrictions.

vgrimr_J
06-22-2017, 02:43 PM
There should be also a rep score lock somewhere around 20.

xECS DESTROYER
06-22-2017, 02:46 PM
Well considering that I played a ton of Rainbow and 9 times out of 10 Blackbeard was causing frustrating experiences for really talented players, I believe it is right to assume that a good amount of the player base would have been opposed to running multiples in a game that is all about strategy.

In a ranked mode, you will generally be running with a squad so this sort of thing would be hashed about before loading up matchmaking. If this was a huge issue, then Rainbow would never have been popular enough to become an eSport.

Overwatch has hardly faltered, and it has a single-pick style of competitive play. Why would it be an issue here?

Draghmar
06-22-2017, 02:55 PM
The reason for single pick is because devs don't have skills or desire to balance things properly. And that's it. You even admitted that this class 'Blackbeard' were frustrating which clearly means that it wasn't properly balanced.

I've already pointed what my issue is. I don't like this kind of restrictions only because someone can't do their work properly and I don't see any other reason for taking away freedom of playstyle in this regard.

And just because some companies decide to make their game in a way they see fit doesn't mean that everyone should go in their steps 'just because'.

I don't know how this ranked mode will be but I don't see any reason to not to take two classes of same type to make for my tactics.

xECS DESTROYER
06-22-2017, 03:05 PM
I can understand your reasoning. I just believe that Rainbow brings much more to the table in terms of competitiveness because there are not many operators who can do it all, so the single-pick makes it even that much more intense.

In For Honor, even though I play Warlord a lot, I would cringe if either my team or the opposing players had multiple Warlords. I am fine with having one great hero that the teams should focus on, such as Cent in team fights and double-teaming Warlords on a zone, but having 3 or even 4 to go against would just be atrocious from my point of view. I have done tournaments both with and without single-pick, and the latter was more intense and enjoyable for me.

Blasto95
06-22-2017, 03:41 PM
The reason for single pick is because devs don't have skills or desire to balance things properly. And that's it. You even admitted that this class 'Blackbeard' were frustrating which clearly means that it wasn't properly balanced.

I've already pointed what my issue is. I don't like this kind of restrictions only because someone can't do their work properly and I don't see any other reason for taking away freedom of playstyle in this regard.

And just because some companies decide to make their game in a way they see fit doesn't mean that everyone should go in their steps 'just because'.

I don't know how this ranked mode will be but I don't see any reason to not to take two classes of same type to make for my tactics.

Its near impossible to balance multiples of heroes to different multiples of heroes without making them basic and bland. Look at OW and how they handled single pick. took them a month or two to implement the same system. 6 different picks with less than 20 characters. We're choosing 4 from 14 heroes.

Learn to play a different hero. If you dont want to, dont play Ranked. Thats why theres a casual mode right now where you can pick multiple heroes and play who you want. Ranked is competitive. 4 Centurions or 4 Warlords or 4 Nobushis is not competitive. As much as you want a perfectly balanced game where you can have multiple picks, it doesnt happen.

What successful ranked mode does have multiple heroes?

Draghmar
06-22-2017, 03:51 PM
And you're completely wrong here. Guild Wars 1 and 2 didn't have restrictions like that. Sure there issues but they had much more to balance things out, especially in first one then game like FH have,
I really don't know why you say that wanting to play specific class is casual...just because you don't mind playing different ones doesn't make you less casual. And casual mode have nothing to do with ability to choose which class you want to bring to the battlefield.

Just because something is called 'ranked' doesn't mean it's for elites. It just that it have ranking so you can show off how good you are.

Blasto95
06-22-2017, 03:57 PM
Its not for elites. Its for competitive game play. And multiple hero picks is not competitive. Guild Wars 1 and 2 is an MMORPG, this is an entirely different genre. Im assuming its like WoW PvP as i only played both games for a short while and never got into their competitive scene. And any MMORPG ive played for that matter, you are able to play any class for PvP. No restrictions. So that's just a terrible example, has absolutely nothing to do with any type of game we are discussing.

OW, Paladins, Battleborn, R6S, even i guess Gigantic or whatever that game is. Those are A LOT more related to FH than any MMORPG is, and as far as I know, you can not have multiple hero picks in Ranked for those games. Really I just dont know of Battleborn and Gigantic.

Gray360UK
06-22-2017, 04:12 PM
Im assuming its like WoW PvP as i only played both games for a short while and never got into their competitive scene. And any MMORPG ive played for that matter, you are able to play any class for PvP. No restrictions.

True enough for WoW with Arena fights. Teams that were all Rogues were hilarious. You would all start in stealth and the main challenge for the enemy was actually finding where you were hiding before you ambushed them. Fun times ;)

Blasto95
06-22-2017, 04:31 PM
Ya thats what I was referring to. Ive played the battlegrounds like WSG and AB which have zero relation to For Honor. I wasnt sure in 2v2,3v3,5v5 arena fights if you could pick same class/specs. Never got into those.

bmason1000
06-22-2017, 05:02 PM
Perhaps hero selection first, then matchmaking based on "well this team doesn't have an orochi so this is your game." Everyone plays the hero they want. Obviously finding a game is now an issue but hey, maybe there won't be so many cents if cents can't find games haha

Knight_Raime
06-22-2017, 07:52 PM
The reason for single pick is because devs don't have skills or desire to balance things properly. And that's it. You even admitted that this class 'Blackbeard' were frustrating which clearly means that it wasn't properly balanced.

I've already pointed what my issue is. I don't like this kind of restrictions only because someone can't do their work properly and I don't see any other reason for taking away freedom of playstyle in this regard.

And just because some companies decide to make their game in a way they see fit doesn't mean that everyone should go in their steps 'just because'.

I don't know how this ranked mode will be but I don't see any reason to not to take two classes of same type to make for my tactics.

I legit laughed so loud I woke my sleeping sibling. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. single pick is not implemented because developers are "lazy" and can't balance things.

Lets define what is different between a hero shooter and a standard FPS. say. cod vs overwatch. In call of duty any person can run the same weapon in competitive because even though there are clear disadvantages and advantages in each weapon in the grand scheme of things it's not a major impact. You don't need to know if the guy with the ACR is still alive because any skilled competitive player worth their money could use an any gun at any distance and still work comfortable.

Versus overwatch. Where you can't tell your team "tracer is dead." or "tracer is dead over here" because 1) another tracer is still running around. and 2) you can't tell them which tracer is dead. To simplify it for your simple brain it messes with communication. which is one of the biggest aspects of competitive team based games.

But it goes beyond that. when you look at abilities. Lets look at paladins. There is an incredibly powerful damage dealer called drogoz who has a "spit" ability that if he hits it with his own rockets it causes a large ish AOE of damage area very good burst damage. Killing the one drogoz to remove the threat of that burst damage means something in single pick. But not if stacking is allowed. the individuals death means basically nothing when the threat is still present VIA a different player.

There is no "magical" balancing act that makes hero stacking work. You're frankly ignorant if you believe that. Either because you feel entitled to play who you want when you want or because you just plain lack the understanding behind the nuances when it comes to actual competitve gaming. Stacking also does not add in extra strats or tactics. all it does is encourage one or 2 specific ways to play because things become hilariously strong when stacked.

I could understand your objection (even if I disagree with it) for not having single pick in casual. But in ranked it's 100% a must in any hero based game. That's just fact. Disagreeing with it just means you literally have no clue on what you're talking about.

SirCorrino
06-22-2017, 08:54 PM
Versus overwatch. Where you can't tell your team "tracer is dead." or "tracer is dead over here" because 1) another tracer is still running around. and 2) you can't tell them which tracer is dead. To simplify it for your simple brain it messes with communication. which is one of the biggest aspects of competitive team based games.

That had literally nothing to do with the decision to remove hero stacking from Comp (and later QP) in Overwatch. The sole reason was teams running 2(Winston, Tracer, Lucio) and being able to stall for-****ing-ever leading to incredibly boring matches.

Knight_Raime
06-22-2017, 09:04 PM
That had literally nothing to do with the decision to remove hero stacking from Comp (and later QP) in Overwatch. The sole reason was teams running 2(Winston, Tracer, Lucio) and being able to stall for-****ing-ever leading to incredibly boring matches.

Sorry but no. They didn't decide to add in single pick just because on particular composition was running rampent. There were several comps that they tried to quash by nerfing heros. They were against single pick initially because of the same stupid reason the guy I quoted. Wether or not you agree with me doesn't matter. stacking ruins communication. And communication is one of the most important things when you play with a team. That's just fact.

Jediknight482
06-22-2017, 11:36 PM
YES! I've been saying this since the beginning. please DO THIS!

UbiNoty
06-23-2017, 12:28 AM
Thanks for bringing up the suggestion. I think it's definitely something we'll have to think about as we start preparing for 4v4 ranked.
We've gotten numerous suggestions about it before for regular 4v4,s but we were always reluctant to implement something like it before because single-pick can mean potentially alienating players who have one main, or go into a match wanting to play a specific hero.
But in a ranked 4v4 system where the stakes are higher it's a necessary discussion that we'll need to have. Of course we'll need to carefully weigh the pros and cons of a single pick system, but it's good to hear all of your different opinions on it.

Ulrichvonbek111
06-23-2017, 09:53 AM
And you're completely wrong here. Guild Wars 1 and 2 didn't have restrictions like that. Sure there issues but they had much more to balance things out, especially in first one then game like FH have,
I really don't know why you say that wanting to play specific class is casual...just because you don't mind playing different ones doesn't make you less casual. And casual mode have nothing to do with ability to choose which class you want to bring to the battlefield.

Just because something is called 'ranked' doesn't mean it's for elites. It just that it have ranking so you can show off how good you are.

It's an interesting mode for us all in every aspect of the game.
Indeed while many shall play there'll be others who think they're God's and want you to know it...Bloated ego time comes d:)

Dude_of_Valor
06-23-2017, 10:47 AM
Thanks for bringing up the suggestion. I think it's definitely something we'll have to think about as we start preparing for 4v4 ranked.
We've gotten numerous suggestions about it before for regular 4v4,s but we were always reluctant to implement something like it before because single-pick can mean potentially alienating players who have one main, or go into a match wanting to play a specific hero.
But in a ranked 4v4 system where the stakes are higher it's a necessary discussion that we'll need to have. Of course we'll need to carefully weigh the pros and cons of a single pick system, but it's good to hear all of your different opinions on it.

My advice is try it in ranked and see what the community thinks. Ranked matches are going to be quite cut throat (as it should be) so removing the option to have 4 centurion gank squads is surely a good thing (not that I have experienced it but can imagine what it is like!)

Capoupacap
06-23-2017, 04:08 PM
The ranked 4vs4 system looks like more a team/clan matchup than an actual solo ranked one. May be it could be interesting to implement a simple clan system for this specific release. In 4vs4 ranked you could so use two ranking: a team one or a solo ?

just an idea, I would for sure not launch a 4vs4 ranked if not with my group

Archeun
06-23-2017, 07:10 PM
This game has no chance at being fixed to make Ranked an acceptable option.