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View Full Version : Nerfing Centurion is not going to fix the real problem.



AzureSky.
06-21-2017, 11:12 PM
The CC meta in 4vs4 modes is the real problem. (and thats all cc spamming characters fault)
The game has a system in 4vs4 to evade noob spamming kind of problems, one is attack spam, after you parry all the attacks that follow will also be parried, you get more revenge for blocking.

But the same cant be say about cc spamming, dont matter if you are a very good player or a bad player, anyone can do it and you cant do the same things of the anti noob attack spam system, after you get a parry you can get grabbed instead, or cced to make you win nothing after a succesfull parry when you are vsing 2 or more players. Also you can evade cc but you risk getting grabbed by someone else.

The solution? Making a anti cc spam system so it rewards good plays and punish the players that stack cc on top of each other, if someone is trying to stack cc on you (after another enemy already did it) they will get pushed back, kind of like the one after someone tech your guard break, this applies to GB and also the CC each character has, if by chance the opponent is in revenge mode you fall to the floor instead of going back (and the guy that you tried to cc can punish you) This way you kill ******** squads.

To make a parry worth it, if you do a parry you get a cc inmunity action (based on ms, kind of like the simultaneous parry one, also you can waste it if you let the time go on ex: after 0,75 seconds) you can do the punish you want (you can get hit by another character that timed the attack after the simultaneous parry one) based on the actual punish times (nothing changed here, its not a free attack of ANY kind, just the regular ones each character already has)

This way people will actually use their brains instead of just mash the cc spam button, Centurion may need or not nerfs, his strong points are cc and mixups and YOU CAN get out of them, every character has strong and weak points, you can just play warden and vortex cent to death since he dont have ANY kind of side dodge + grab or light, so he cant really stop the vortex.

In other words you can nerf Cent but thats not going to fix the cc meta spam of 4vs4 modes.

Thorsein
06-21-2017, 11:56 PM
If nerfing is not the solution, maybe then deleting the centurion:)

S0Mi_xD
06-21-2017, 11:58 PM
I agree about the main point, that CC spam in general is a/the problem.

Just an example :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ8JyH9PxF8

UbiNoty
06-22-2017, 12:22 AM
Thanks for the suggestion Azure. What would you think about a system that allows players to escape the CC stacking instead? I do quite like the idea of finding ways to counter CC stacking, but the reason certain heroes may stack CC is because they can - and if that's their strength then it wouldn't be very fair to punish them when they are just playing to their hero's strengths right? Or perhaps a good alternative would be to find ways to limit CC stacking of the same type on one person? What do you all think?

S0Mi_xD
06-22-2017, 12:28 AM
That would be a way to go.
As an example:
If a Char is already staggerd, a second stagger would have no effect on him?

Similar, if you are already staggered, you can't be GBed.

sgtpickles
06-22-2017, 12:43 AM
Thanks for the suggestion Azure. What would you think about a system that allows players to escape the CC stacking instead? I do quite like the idea of finding ways to counter CC stacking, but the reason certain heroes may stack CC is because they can - and if that's their strength then it wouldn't be very fair to punish them when they are just playing to their hero's strengths right? Or perhaps a good alternative would be to find ways to limit CC stacking of the same type on one person? What do you all think?

Add it to the revenge mechanic. I've been wanting revenge to have some type of CC immunity since release. I never had problems with it. My team would relentlessly spam heavies (like most people because "MY KDR!!!") while I would just CC them to oblivion. This includes when people thought revenge was overpowered before it got reduced to nothing more than a shield/stamina/parry button where everyone runs reduced revenge duration for more shield/stamina/parry button. My favorite is Shugoki. DE -> teammate keeps spamming heavies -> win games.

Thorsein
06-22-2017, 12:46 AM
The idea is good as a whole since we have many problems with other classes as well. But still would not solve the problems you have with the centurion in particular, since they drain a lot of stamina, they have a lot of stamina, some attacks have an unacceptable range and their unlockable attacks are very fast and in addition there are many, Of being complicated to get rid of one of these unlockable in any way, if you can do this he will send another soon after. So a nerf is simply indisputable.

SirCorrino
06-22-2017, 12:52 AM
I've proposed this before, and I believe it would be a very simple and elegant way of removing the excessive CC spam in 4v4 modes with no impact on 1v1.

The solution is a simple CC immunity that works like this: Once an enemy uses a CC move against you, you become immune to ALL CC except from that character for 10 seconds, refreshed every time that character hits you with CC. Any CC attempts against you act like when you try to GB a target that cannot be GBd, ie you just bounce off. So for example if you face 2 Centurions and a Valk, if the Valk hits you with her SB first, then the Cents cannot use any CC against you for 10 seconds, but the Valk can still sweep you or bash you, resetting the 10s timer.


I would personally couple this with a FULL CC immunity in revenge, as well as make all CC work like Sweep in that it gets parried and causes a knockdown if you use it during revenge activation.

This would go a very long way towards making CC less of an issue in 4v4 modes, and Centurions would be way less problematic. They might still need a small CC nerf as they have a bit too much on demand CC available to them, but this would go a long way.

I posted a thread suggesting this almost a month back, but got no replies at all. Hopefully this can be considered a bit more now.

UbiNoty
06-22-2017, 01:00 AM
I've proposed this before, and I believe it would be a very simple and elegant way of removing the excessive CC spam in 4v4 modes with no impact on 1v1.

The solution is a simple CC immunity that works like this: Once an enemy uses a CC move against you, you become immune to ALL CC except from that character for 10 seconds, refreshed every time that character hits you with CC. Any CC attempts against you act like when you try to GB a target that cannot be GBd, ie you just bounce off. So for example if you face 2 Centurions and a Valk, if the Valk hits you with her SB first, then the Cents cannot use any CC against you for 10 seconds, but the Valk can still sweep you or bash you, resetting the 10s timer.


I would personally couple this with a FULL CC immunity in revenge, as well as make all CC work like Sweep in that it gets parried and causes a knockdown if you use it during revenge activation.

This would go a very long way towards making CC less of an issue in 4v4 modes, and Centurions would be way less problematic. They might still need a small CC nerf as they have a bit too much on demand CC available to them, but this would go a long way.

I posted a thread suggesting this almost a month back, but got no replies at all. Hopefully this can be considered a bit more now.

Apologies, it may have just gotten buried before me or UbiJurassic got to it. That being said, we've brought up several ideas to the team about CC before- but it's always good to try and reinforce that message to make sure they can really notice and understand.

brashtralas
06-22-2017, 01:01 AM
Thanks for the suggestion Azure. What would you think about a system that allows players to escape the CC stacking instead? I do quite like the idea of finding ways to counter CC stacking, but the reason certain heroes may stack CC is because they can - and if that's their strength then it wouldn't be very fair to punish them when they are just playing to their hero's strengths right? Or perhaps a good alternative would be to find ways to limit CC stacking of the same type on one person? What do you all think?

If you remove CC stacking, what will the centurion have? As I said in another thread, the centurion doesn't play by the same rules as all the other characters.

When was the last time anyone blocked a centurion attack? I mean normal old block?

I bet it was a long time ago. The centurions arsenal is largely composed of CC, UB, GB, and pinning CC. So what actually counts as CC? Is his variable charged pinning strike CC? His kick? How about his light hit into a guaranteed GB? The ground stab?

Let's be real, here. If you get CCd one time by a centurion in a gank fight, you're dead. That's it. You're not getting up.

By the way, I absolutely agree that CC of all types is frustrating, but the centurion makes it unbearable. I just got my first 10 minute ban today because I just didn't feel like dealing with two of them.

Why not simply make the CC abilities counter able just like every other thing in the game, and make revenge immunity against it. Then rework the centurion, because he doesn't fit in.

Not trying to sound whiny or mean, but it has to be done. I'm your target audience, and I'm getting extremely annoyed with the game. I have more patience and understanding than most, so take that as you will.

AzureSky.
06-23-2017, 02:18 AM
Im not talking about chains of particular heros, this changes i proposed have the main focus of not breaking Duel, since you cant "stack" (taking cc from multiple enemys at the same stagger time) so its not like it breaks their heros strengths but promotes chaining cc instead of stacking it (doing the cc the exact time after another ended) this way you give cc spammers a punish but people that can time it well can get the cc done (still if your team is not organized they can screw it up)

This way you add more complex mechanics into the game and make 4vs4 more skillfull and less about spamming, you still are in a disadvantage when you are vs multiple people but you can overcome it if you are good, also its a lot better than buffing revenge (since revenge dont really recognize a good player from a bad one and still punish all the same)

AzureSky.
06-23-2017, 02:22 AM
10 seconds? its not a turn based game xD hahaha. my idea propose a 0,75 seconds inmunity to reward parrys and also makes the ones that do the cc in that frames to fall off to the ground (the same as revenge when you activate it in a attack)

if someone do a cc move (not gb) when you are grabbed or already cced by another player you get a backward animation, the same one as when someone counter guard breaks you.

In revenge mode the second case also makes them fall off.

Aarpian
06-23-2017, 09:14 AM
Thanks for the suggestion Azure. What would you think about a system that allows players to escape the CC stacking instead? I do quite like the idea of finding ways to counter CC stacking, but the reason certain heroes may stack CC is because they can - and if that's their strength then it wouldn't be very fair to punish them when they are just playing to their hero's strengths right? Or perhaps a good alternative would be to find ways to limit CC stacking of the same type on one person? What do you all think?

Make revenge protect against cc

AzureSky.
06-25-2017, 12:52 AM
But not parrys right? i mean you can still parry them and gb them (if you are superior to them you still get to cc them)