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View Full Version : why nerf Shugoki vs other trash



LKBlanka
06-19-2017, 09:25 PM
Shugoki's run got nerfed, devs said its no fun to have a free heavy attack.
Then they made Centurion which takes away your stamina and puts you on the ground, might even give him a full free kill or at least takes away like half your health. 'just dodge' ye whatever they will keep spamming the same **** untill they did it right 1 time and you're f*cked. **** game nerf the wrong sh*t.
I dont see many shugokis still they had to nerf him. While others get nasty combo sh*t etc.
Sigh.

Antonioj26
06-19-2017, 09:35 PM
Shugoki's run got nerfed, devs said its no fun to have a free heavy attack.
Then they made Centurion which takes away your stamina and puts you on the ground, might even give him a full free kill or at least takes away like half your health. 'just dodge' ye whatever they will keep spamming the same **** untill they did it right 1 time and you're f*cked. **** game nerf the wrong sh*t.
I dont see many shugokis still they had to nerf him. While others get nasty combo sh*t etc.
Sigh.

Shugos run was far more dangerous in the right hands. They went way too far with it but oni cheese shugo would stomp any variation of centurion thus far. It doesn't give him a free kill it gives 35 damage if you are on the ground or if he knows to do the zone he can do 50. Most don't do the zone so more often than it's just 35, that's far from killing you or half your health. They need you to screw up way more than once, stop exaggerating. The only guaranteed damage from a kick is a light attack and same with the jab. Everything following that can be defended against so you are making way more than one mistake.

dragon7jdc
06-19-2017, 09:59 PM
Shugoki's run got nerfed, devs said its no fun to have a free heavy attack.
Then they made Centurion which takes away your stamina and puts you on the ground, might even give him a full free kill or at least takes away like half your health. 'just dodge' ye whatever they will keep spamming the same **** untill they did it right 1 time and you're f*cked. **** game nerf the wrong sh*t.
I dont see many shugokis still they had to nerf him. While others get nasty combo sh*t etc.
Sigh.

I agree, they nerfed shugo and introduced cent (very funny)
and just so you know i dont think cent will be nerfed badly ( just a little) but he is getting a nerf just to please the players who hate him. but at the sme time they dont want to lose his players. so yea we are stuck with cent. you see how he nerfed shinobi to the ground hahaha.i veleive for honor deves love and only care about the knight faction and maybe viking. but for sure not samurai. (don't beleive me) look at every hero and see how many good heros in each faction.

LKBlanka
06-19-2017, 10:14 PM
His run was far more dangerous cause he got a heavy lmao ye right.
Ye call me a noob whatever dude, but cent just fkn sucks big time. I can be full health and him just 1 bar and i still lose because of his stupid moveset,Why should a chracter be designed in a way its instant win vs noobs anyway?
But the thing is why nerf Shugoki, reason given doesn't make sense. Because like all nerds say about Cent 'just dodge'. SOOOOO just dodge or even gb....does not make sense to nerf Shugoki at all !

Antonioj26
06-19-2017, 10:20 PM
His run was far more dangerous cause he got a heavy lmao ye right.
Ye call me a noob whatever dude, but cent just fkn sucks big time. I can be full health and him just 1 bar and i still lose because of his stupid moveset,Why should a chracter be designed in a way its instant win vs noobs anyway?
But the thing is why nerf Shugoki, reason given doesn't make sense. Because like all nerds say about Cent 'just dodge'. SOOOOO just dodge or even gb....does not make sense to nerf Shugoki at all !

It was way better, which is why you shugo was destroying the tourney scene when oni cheese was discovered and centurion is non existant. but its not because of his moveset, you lose because you failed to defend yourself. At a certain point its time to stop solely putting the blame on the character and realize its also you. Shugokis run was too safe, it was a 50/50 that couldn't be punished. Everything centurion has can be defended against or punished.

UbiJurassic
06-19-2017, 11:47 PM
Centurion having a nasty impact on the game certainly wasn't something that was intended upon release. There's only so much internal playtesting is able to catch, in terms of potentially abusive gameplay, compared to when the entire playerbase starts playing them. The community has been very responsive about the Centurion and we are using that feedback to address him in a future update. As for bug Shugo, there's no plans right now to give him back those free heavies, but promoting his charge as a core strategy to winning with him was not our attention and therefore the charge was nerfed. While those no plans to address his charge again, that doesn't mean we won't in the future.

Dzucc
06-20-2017, 01:41 AM
Since we are on the topic of Shugoki can you say if the ability of centurions to bypass his hyperarmor is working as intended?

UbiJurassic
06-20-2017, 02:06 AM
Since we are on the topic of Shugoki can you say if the ability of centurions to bypass his hyperarmor is working as intended?

We've seen the question a lot and we're looking into getting more info on that.

kweassa1
06-20-2017, 02:06 AM
Since we are on the topic of Shugoki can you say if the ability of centurions to bypass his hyperarmor is working as intended?

I'm guessing it's either an oversight, or an intended-but-bad decision.

It seems like when the introduced the "Lion's Pounce" trait, they didn't really think about what it would do to UI states. Unfortunately, that's brought out a seriously disturbing situation where even Shugoki's UIS -- one of the game's strongest UI stance -- doesn't offer protection. Compare it to Shugoki's light attacks, which have a special trait that ignores being interrupted by normal blocks, but still respects superior blocks.

One of the cent's problems -- not necessarily balance related -- is that it just has too many features that are exempt from common rules, which border on the levels of being more of a glitch than a mechanic.


The only move in game that stands upto centurion's Lion's Pounce "pin", is Demon's Embrace -- which is an absolute UI -- nothing in the game stops Shug's Demon's Embrace unless you kill him before it connects. All the rest... Warlord heavies.. revenge mode.. Lawbringer shove... etc etc whatever that has UI, the cent ignores it all, even with a normal, blockable heavy.

LKBlanka
06-20-2017, 09:21 AM
I'm guessing it's either an oversight, or an intended-but-bad decision.

It seems like when the introduced the "Lion's Pounce" trait, they didn't really think about what it would do to UI states. Unfortunately, that's brought out a seriously disturbing situation where even Shugoki's UIS -- one of the game's strongest UI stance -- doesn't offer protection. Compare it to Shugoki's light attacks, which have a special trait that ignores being interrupted by normal blocks, but still respects superior blocks.

One of the cent's problems -- not necessarily balance related -- is that it just has too many features that are exempt from common rules, which border on the levels of being more of a glitch than a mechanic.


The only move in game that stands upto centurion's Lion's Pounce "pin", is Demon's Embrace -- which is an absolute UI -- nothing in the game stops Shug's Demon's Embrace unless you kill him before it connects. All the rest... Warlord heavies.. revenge mode.. Lawbringer shove... etc etc whatever that has UI, the cent ignores it all, even with a normal, blockable heavy.

Embrace gets blocked if you hit him or dodge ofc, its a high risk for the shugoki, if you miss you'll lose a lot of health which makes it a move you only should use when it has a higher chance of succes like after wall stun, its a high risk with just medium benefits.

And i dont think they will do something for shugoki since nobody cares, hes so unpopular lol.
Like this guy says from 9 minutes : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBxDh21_ajA see im right you're dead cause u dont have time to dodge enough. especially with shugoki hes slow. Its also not very clear for me how to parry centurion.

Dude_of_Valor
06-20-2017, 10:29 AM
Centurion having a nasty impact on the game certainly wasn't something that was intended upon release. There's only so much internal playtesting is able to catch, in terms of potentially abusive gameplay, compared to when the entire playerbase starts playing them. The community has been very responsive about the Centurion and we are using that feedback to address him in a future update. As for bug Shugo, there's no plans right now to give him back those free heavies, but promoting his charge as a core strategy to winning with him was not our attention and therefore the charge was nerfed. While those no plans to address his charge again, that doesn't mean we won't in the future.

So when Centurion (and Shinobi) was tested by the developers what was the general consensus? That they were strong but beatable?

As for the Shugoki, the knockdown into heavy was very hard to punish if I am not mistaken (if he whiffed the charge, you could not get in close enough to deal some damage as he just ran past you).

Existentialmeme
06-20-2017, 01:36 PM
Centurion having a nasty impact on the game certainly wasn't something that was intended upon release. There's only so much internal playtesting is able to catch, in terms of potentially abusive gameplay, compared to when the entire playerbase starts playing them. The community has been very responsive about the Centurion and we are using that feedback to address him in a future update. As for bug Shugo, there's no plans right now to give him back those free heavies, but promoting his charge as a core strategy to winning with him was not our attention and therefore the charge was nerfed. While those no plans to address his charge again, that doesn't mean we won't in the future.

First off, just want to say, Thank you and UbiNoty for all you guys have done, My reply is mostly for the devs.

How did the developers not even test for the effect of 2-4 centruions in a 4v4 game?! I can understand that certain bugs are hard to catch unless played by a large playerbase. But this was a simple playtest that the developers should have done.

I emphasized with the devs before, as this is a unique new kind of game with mechanics never seen before, but it is getting harder and harder to really think that they're trying their best. As of right now, it just seems like either they don't care enough or they're simply incompetent to do some very basic testing and balancing.

Maybe you guys should hire outsiders to playtest, not the developers who just seems biased toward the heroes they personally like, designing things that they think it's cool, but deserves no place in a game like this.

Just to point out one thing that should not be in a game like this: Built-in guaranteed combos, the ones like Centurion and Shinobi has, Remove those please, they have no place in For Honor.