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S0Mi_xD
06-19-2017, 11:01 AM
Hey Guys and Ubi,

i wanted to point out this idea a while ago, but forgot about it.

It's pretty simple:
Currently you can spam GBs even if the enemy CGBs you every time.
Thats because you still stay in the area where the GB tracks your enemy.

So just let the CGB push the enemy abit futher away, so if the try just to spam, they miss after a CGB.

DrExtrem
06-19-2017, 11:21 AM
Imo, its not a great way to discourage spam.

It would make guard breaking in general a higher risk move. Especially in positions next to a cliff.

If the pushback from a successful counter is too high it would become suicidal to use it at all.

Higher stamina consumption might be enough.

Epoqx
06-19-2017, 11:40 AM
I am really not in favor of a GB nerf.
It is so easily countered once you got the timing down to cgb, or simply by using a light.

S0Mi_xD
06-19-2017, 12:09 PM
Imo, its not a great way to discourage spam.

It would make guard breaking in general a higher risk move. Especially in positions next to a cliff.

If the pushback from a successful counter is too high it would become suicidal to use it at all.

Higher stamina consumption might be enough.

I do understand your point, and i know this risk very well, if you with your back to a ledge/cliff. I am fully aware of this.

But for this, it doesn't need much. The difference would be really small.
It's not like i want the pushback to be across the map.
Only one small step further, the current pushback after CGB already is nearly at the end of the tracking area.

It would make spamming GB more risky, because if you GB someone, he CGBs you, you would miss the next GB and the enemy could punish you for spam.
To avoid this, you just need to take a small step forward. The get into the area again.

I already though about a higher stamina cost, but it is already a good stamina cost for a GB.
If you would raise the stamina cost, a GB shouldn't be countered that easy.
Higher cost = harder to counter



I am really not in favor of a GB nerf.
It is so easily countered once you got the timing down to cgb, or simply by using a light.

It's not a nerf to GB, it's just a way to stop GB spam.

But you are mentioning the real problem with GB, its to easy to Counter.
There have been already PPL who suggested to make CGB abit harder.


From my experience, as a Berserker - i can say, this small change (pushing abit futher ) would affect GB in no way, it would only affect those who mash the GB button to get a lucky one.


But thanks for your feedback, it always helps to see other points of views

MasterChiefPON
06-19-2017, 01:04 PM
I like it, sounds good for me.

Antonioj26
06-19-2017, 01:37 PM
Hey Guys and Ubi,

i wanted to point out this idea a while ago, but forgot about it.

It's pretty simple:
Currently you can spam GBs even if the enemy CGBs you every time.
Thats because you still stay in the area where the GB tracks your enemy.

So just let the CGB push the enemy abit futher away, so if the try just to spam, they miss after a CGB.

Ah come on somi not you too. It's a solid pressure tactic if someone's done it 2-3 times in a row just hit them with a light.

DrExtrem
06-19-2017, 01:40 PM
I do understand your point, and i know this risk very well, if you with your back to a ledge/cliff. I am fully aware of this.

But for this, it doesn't need much. The difference would be really small.
It's not like i want the pushback to be across the map.
Only one small step further, the current pushback after CGB already is nearly at the end of the tracking area.

It would make spamming GB more risky, because if you GB someone, he CGBs you, you would miss the next GB and the enemy could punish you for spam.
To avoid this, you just need to take a small step forward. The get into the area again.

I already though about a higher stamina cost, but it is already a good stamina cost for a GB.
If you would raise the stamina cost, a GB shouldn't be countered that easy.
Higher cost = harder to counter



It would still not stop people from spamming it, if the solution is to move the stick forward. ;)

In addition, a successful counter GB could open up a window of opportunity to strike directly after the successful counter. This would certainly stop the spam but kill the whole technique in the process, because it would be too dangerous, to risk a counter GB.

SnugglesIV
06-19-2017, 01:40 PM
Hey Guys and Ubi,

i wanted to point out this idea a while ago, but forgot about it.

It's pretty simple:
Currently you can spam GBs even if the enemy CGBs you every time.
Thats because you still stay in the area where the GB tracks your enemy.

So just let the CGB push the enemy abit futher away, so if the try just to spam, they miss after a CGB.

GB spam is not a problem period. It's very easy to deal with by just CGB'ing them. The meme about "they'll never expect ANOTHER GB" only works on people who can't react and have to predict attacks. Spamming GB already drains stamina so each failed GB puts you behind in the stam game.

S0Mi_xD
06-19-2017, 02:39 PM
Ah come on somi not you too. It's a solid pressure tactic if someone's done it 2-3 times in a row just hit them with a light.
No worries, just spreading my thoughts to get abit feedback, and to discuss abit.
And yes, you are not wrong ^^


It would still not stop people from spamming it, if the solution is to move the stick forward. ;)

In addition, a successful counter GB could open up a window of opportunity to strike directly after the successful counter. This would certainly stop the spam but kill the whole technique in the process, because it would be too dangerous, to risk a counter GB.
It would slow the process abit down.

Could you explain the second part abit further? Somehow i don't getting behind it xD - who gets an opportuniy to stike, what would be to dangerous.



GB spam is not a problem period. It's very easy to deal with by just CGB'ing them. The meme about "they'll never expect ANOTHER GB" only works on people who can't react and have to predict attacks. Spamming GB already drains stamina so each failed GB puts you behind in the stam game.

Yeah you are right.

I personly don't have problems with the spam, it's more like, i think GBs are not in a good place.
In average gameplay it is ok, but if you go about it, a simple GB will be countered to 95%.
Sure it gives a good reward, but at a certain point it is pretty much impossible to do.

This spam idea is just a old thought i wanted to release.


But if you guys want to give me a feedback on another more serious idea, i would like to hear your thoughts :)

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1690765-Rework-Idea-_-Parry

DrExtrem
06-19-2017, 02:43 PM
The player, who successfully countered the GB would have a small time window. If it is long enough, to perform a light strike, the new GB attempt form the attacker would be unsuccessful because of the stagger generated by the light attack. Remember. You can not GB into a running attack.

This would lead to a GB attempt being far too risky.

kweassa1
06-19-2017, 02:44 PM
But we already have that in game -- CGB-back dodge. Resets practically every situation to "neutral".

Most of the times I fall for dumb, in-your-face GB spams is when I get too cocky about my CGBs and don't back out from the position, and then give too much credit to the other guy and think "c'mon.. he's not going to try it a third time in a row, is he?" and let my concentration slip... in which case the 3rd straight GB attempt in a row gets me.... which I have no one else to fault than myself.

People who need to L2P tend to whine, and they also tend to be numerous -- and balance ain't democracy IMO. You don't need to pander to every ridiculous complaint people make.

DrExtrem
06-19-2017, 02:46 PM
And your only contribution to this forum is to whine about other people.

It would be great, if you would start to contribute to the community, instead of making it even more toxic.

kweassa1
06-19-2017, 03:14 PM
And your only contribution to this forum is to whine about other people.

It would be great, if you would start to contribute to the community, instead of making it even more toxic.

Sorry, but people whining about every single one of their L2P problems don't get to complain about others sick and tired of that attitude whining about them. :D


Besides, I just did contribute, unlike your endless whining which produced no help in technique at all.

CGB-back dodge basically does exactly what S0MI proposed.

That_guy44
06-19-2017, 03:21 PM
What is this cgb back dodge? When ever i try to back dodge, i get grabbed. Are you given invincibility frames for guardbreaks after a successful cgb?

kweassa1
06-19-2017, 03:24 PM
What is this cgb back dodge? When ever i try to back dodge, i get grabbed. Are you given invincibility frames for guardbreaks after a successful cgb?

back dodge after CGB activates before the opponent can reactive GB, and the distance is further than any normal GB attempts afterwards except for shinobi ranged GBs, or if the opponent immediately unlocks and starts a sprint-GB.

dragon7jdc
06-19-2017, 10:39 PM
this is actually a good solution man. but i think many players wont like that. as they are GB spamm happy. And they responde is: you can just CGB it. but if that is the case then why use it in the first place ? SMH

Antonioj26
06-19-2017, 10:41 PM
this is actually a good solution man. but i think many players wont like that. as they are GB spamm happy. And they responde is: you can just CGB it. but if that is the case then why use it in the first place ? SMH

Because it works on noobs and its also guaranteed on recovery frames, parries, dodges, etc.

DrExtrem
06-19-2017, 10:45 PM
Because it works on noobs and its also guaranteed on recovery frames, parries, dodges, etc.

And during the start up of attacks - even fast ones. Hard to pull off on 15 frames lights but still possible.

Antonioj26
06-19-2017, 10:57 PM
And during the start up of attacks - even fast ones. Hard to pull off on 15 frames lights but still possible.

Not if it's from a follow up of a cgb.

LordRockinghamm
06-19-2017, 11:17 PM
Other ideas:

1. No guard break under any circumstances of someone is attacking. The second an attack is initiated, guard break fails. Unbelievably sick of being guard broken while I'm attacking.
2. No guard break through a dodge. I'm dodging. Not guarding.
3. No guard breaks at all during revenge.
4. Only light attacks should make it through a guard break, leading into chains if they can be pulled off. People rely way too much on gb/heavy to win. It's really boring and takes little skill. One parry at the end of a fight and you're done.

UbiJurassic
06-19-2017, 11:19 PM
Definitely a neat suggestion! We've seen GB spam be an issue for some players. While it seems that a few players agree with your suggestion, there are also a few that raise valid counter arguments to the suggested changes. We'll keep an eye on how big of a problem GB spam potentially is, but for now there's no plans to alter it.

Antonioj26
06-19-2017, 11:21 PM
Other ideas:

1. No guard break under any circumstances of someone is attacking. The second an attack is initiated, guard break fails. Unbelievably sick of being guard broken while I'm attacking.
2. No guard break through a dodge. I'm dodging. Not guarding.
3. No guard breaks at all during revenge.
4. Only light attacks should make it through a guard break, leading into chains if they can be pulled off. People rely way too much on gb/heavy to win. It's really boring and takes little skill. One parry at the end of a fight and you're done.

1. Probably should be this way unless you feint a heavy.

2. That's really one of the few times it's actually useful against people who've learned how to cgb, would completely render most mixups useless.

3. The only way the majority of the cast can CC someone who is in revenge but if you fix 1. Than 3 shouldn't ever be an issue.

4. Something they've talked about to make the turtle meta less effective.