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Smeson
06-18-2017, 06:05 PM
So... This hero has been OP since the game launched. He has everything the other characters have, including one of the highest HP pools, hes even alone in being able to guardbreak someone and walk with them to a cliff and drop them. He is obviously way abvove other heroes, and it is so obvious only desperate people play him nowadays. When is he getting a fix? I do think he seems interesting to play but I wont cheat to win... Please make him normal

Lyskir
06-18-2017, 06:18 PM
So... This hero has been OP since the game launched. He has everything the other characters have, including one of the highest HP pools, hes even alone in being able to guardbreak someone and walk with them to a cliff and drop them. He is obviously way abvove other heroes, and it is so obvious only desperate people play him nowadays. When is he getting a fix? I do think he seems interesting to play but I wont cheat to win... Please make him normal

yeah its strange

he is nr 1 since beta, i guess they dont nerf him cuz the playerbase dont complain about him that much

Dutchie21
06-18-2017, 06:35 PM
He's not OP just a very strong, well rounded character. He's an amazing turtle but so is conqueror. Headbutt only gets you a light that barely does any damage. Think about it, what move of his is so OP you want it nerfed? I'll wait for your answer. Unless you just want the entire character nerfed there isn't 1.

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 06:46 PM
He's not OP just a very strong, well rounded character. He's an amazing turtle but so is conqueror. Headbutt only gets you a light that barely does any damage. Think about it, what move of his is so OP you want it nerfed? I'll wait for your answer. Unless you just want the entire character nerfed there isn't 1.

Depends on your definition of OP, but if he's not OP than no one is. He's by far the best character in the game. Side lights as fast as pks, hyper armor on heavies for trades, oos parry, best throw, his headbutt is 500ms with guaranteed damage with low recovery frames, fast zone that has good range and does a full health bar, all guard with a fast heavy follow or guaranteed headbutt. He's crushing it.

GladiatorHood
06-18-2017, 06:52 PM
Depends on your definition of OP, but if he's not OP than no one is. He's by far the best character in the game. Side lights as fast as pks, hyper armor on heavies for trades, oos parry, best throw, his headbutt is 500ms with guaranteed damage with low recovery frames, fast zone that has good range and does a full health bar, all guard with a fast heavy follow or guaranteed headbutt. He's crushing it.

If u nerf all the things you just said, he'd be the worst character.

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 06:53 PM
If u nerf all the things you just said, he'd be the worst character.

I didn't say to nerf those things. I'm just listing out the reasons why he's the best character in the game.

GladiatorHood
06-18-2017, 06:55 PM
I didn't say to nerf those things. I'm just listing out the reasons why he's the best character in the game.

Hes easy to parry, easy to punish after dodging headbut

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 06:57 PM
Hes easy to parry, easy to punish after dodging headbut

If he's easy to parry for you than so is everyone in this game since he's light attacks are in line with the fastest. If he's easy to punish during his headbutt for you than every bash is easy to punish since it has the best recovery frames second only to shinobis kick. He's the best which is why he's dominated the tourney scene since day 1.

GladiatorHood
06-18-2017, 06:58 PM
If he's easy to parry for you than so is everyone in this game since he's light attacks are in line with the fastest. If he's easy to punish during his headbutt for you than every bash is easy to punish since it has the best recovery frames second only to shinobis kick. He's the best which is why he's dominated the tourney scene since day 1.

All of the things you said, indeed. Everything is punishable. Shinobi's kicks are, centurion's punches are, nobushi's kick, warden's bash, THEY ALL ARE.

S0Mi_xD
06-18-2017, 06:59 PM
I didn't say to nerf those things. I'm just listing out the reasons why he's the best character in the game.


Hes easy to parry, easy to punish after dodging headbut

Do you even read what Antonioj26 said :D `?

Also his headbut isn't punishable (not sure if he can recover fast enough to block swift/dodge attacks)

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 07:07 PM
All of the things you said, indeed. Everything is punishable. Shinobi's kicks are, centurion's punches are, nobushi's kick, warden's bash, THEY ALL ARE.

I didn't say they weren't unpublishable, I said he has the best recovery frames second only to shin. That's okay though, just keep putting words in my mouth. Just gloss over everything else I said. It's not some sort of coincidence he's the dominant force in the tournament scene, it's because he's the best.

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 07:08 PM
Do you even read what Antonioj26 said :D `?

Also his headbut isn't punishable (not sure if he can recover fast enough to block swift/dodge attacks)

He's just so eager to get out his "git gud" message that he doesn't even bother listening. That's twice he's just completely ignored what I said and twisted it so he can argue with me.

l8knight347
06-18-2017, 07:13 PM
There has to be a best hero. The Warlord is not so good that he can win just because he is a Warlord. the past nerfs to his headbutt and the recent to his throw are good enough for him not to have an unfair advantage. I hope he is left alone for a while now. good heroes shouldn't be nerfed right now. the other heroes should be buffed to be more on par with the good ones. making an exception for the cent that doesn't really need a nerf just made to be less annoying.

Trbevis
06-18-2017, 07:23 PM
Its absolutely beyond me why he isnt complained about. Been the strongest hero since beta, He literally annoys me soo much!! People sit here on the forums and cry about centurion in team modes, yes centurion is a pain when youre up against two of them, but has anyone ever been against two high level warlords? You may aswell just find and ledge and jump off yourself haha

SirCorrino
06-18-2017, 07:27 PM
Like l8knight said, there's always a best hero. Right now that is Warlord because he has a well-rounded kit and he is literally designed to be a good turtle that punishes opponent's for their mistakes. And what does the entire meta revolve around? Turtling and punishing your opponents for making a mistake. So big surprise that the character designed to have that as his strength is the best right now.

They're working on a patch to reduce the importance of turtling, I suspect he will fall down to 3rd/4th if they make no changes to him and only work on mechanics (for example remove guaranteed GB from parries and adding some chip damage). After that patch I'm 99% sure that PK will be the undisputed queen in 1v1 unless she receives some nerfs to go along with the patch.

Hormly
06-18-2017, 08:08 PM
How many times must I be nerfed? Do I need to have only 1-2 viable moves like some other classes?

How about the devs work on expanding the other kits rather than taking even more away from one of the few classes that feels somewhat complete.

Knight_Raime
06-18-2017, 08:11 PM
His problem is that he's designed as the ultimate counter attacker. He's supposed to have a solution for everything. But his one flaw (if you can call it one) is that his move set lacks any kind of depth to it. Mastering him is really just about knowing your matchup. Which is a skill in itself. Since his guard throw range is being changed and the other nerfs he's got I don't think he needs any more touching.

I feel like he'll be one of the heros thats effected the most by defensive meta being nerfed. So I think we should wait until that patch drops before considering anything else.

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:12 PM
How many times must I be nerfed? Do I need to have only 1-2 viable moves like some other classes?

How about the devs work on expanding the other kits rather than taking even more away from one of the few classes that feels somewhat complete.

Every nerf you've received has been minimal, you are still the top dog by a long shot. That really speaks to how strong warlord really is.

Hormly
06-18-2017, 08:13 PM
Every nerf you've received has been minimal, you are still the top dog by a long shot. That really speaks to how strong warlord really is.

focus on the second paragraph of my response

GladiatorHood
06-18-2017, 08:14 PM
focus on the second paragraph of my response

Ahaha

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:14 PM
His problem is that he's designed as the ultimate counter attacker. He's supposed to have a solution for everything. But his one flaw (if you can call it one) is that his move set lacks any kind of depth to it. Mastering him is really just about knowing your matchup. Which is a skill in itself. Since his guard throw range is being changed and the other nerfs he's got I don't think he needs any more touching.

I feel like he'll be one of the heros thats effected the most by defensive meta being nerfed. So I think we should wait until that patch drops before considering anything else.

I haven't tested it since the new nerf but from 10-7m isn't really that big of a nerf. I have to try it for myself but as far as that throw can go I don't think that 30% decrease will make a huge difference. His other nerfs have just made it so they can't be used too often, his allguard and headbutt are still great tools and amongst the best in their class.

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:16 PM
focus on the second paragraph of my response

Ok? What's your point? It doesn't seem to counter anything I've said thus far

GladiatorHood
06-18-2017, 08:16 PM
Ok? What's your point? It doesn't seem to counter anything I've said thus far
Centurion ftw

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:18 PM
Centurion ftw

What Are you trying to say here? Are you saying centurion is better than warlord? Not by a long shot in 1v1

Hormly
06-18-2017, 08:21 PM
Ahaha

I know right? Theyd rather add more broken characters than fix the original roster, what a mess this game has become. Suppose its easier to take away than to add

Velentix
06-18-2017, 08:24 PM
the problem with warlord is his move set is incredibly lacking. sure you can spam the headbutt, but anyone with a brain will be able to punish you for that, his heavy is super slow and easily parried, his full guard stance which chains to either a light or heavy, make up half of his move list, but that has been nerfed to be slow enough that people can't pull it off successfully enough to use it regularly. his jump attack is so easy to punish that you've got a death wish if you use it. with all those drawbacks most people just end up spamming his light attacks, or turtle up for the light counters and parries, or they end up being defensive while using mainly lights and the occasional gb. the last way of fighting is difficult to beat because his lights are fast, but if he gbs you then you can take massive damage. essentially he becomes an orochi with more health and better block, but not as mobile.

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:27 PM
the problem with warlord is his move set is incredibly lacking. sure you can spam the headbutt, but anyone with a brain will be able to punish you for that, his heavy is super slow and easily parried, his full guard stance which chains to either a light or heavy, make up half of his move list, but that has been nerfed to be slow enough that people can't pull it off successfully enough to use it regularly. his jump attack is so easy to punish that you've got a death wish if you use it. with all those drawbacks most people just end up spamming his light attacks, or turtle up for the light counters and parries, or they end up being defensive while using mainly lights and the occasional gb. the last way of fighting is difficult to beat because his lights are fast, but if he gbs you then you can take massive damage. essentially he becomes an orochi with more health and better block, but not as mobile.

His moveset lacking has done little to stop him from dominating the tournament scene. Quality over quantity.

Hormly
06-18-2017, 08:28 PM
Ok? What's your point? It doesn't seem to counter anything I've said thus far

read again? youve already demonstrated youre not illiterate

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:29 PM
read again? youve already demonstrated youre not illiterate

I did... it still has nothing to do with what I said.

Hormly
06-18-2017, 08:36 PM
I did... it still has nothing to do with what I said.

ok youre going to pretend not to understand English, im not going to explain to you something you already comprehend.

Done with you, good day

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:40 PM
How about the devs work on expanding the other kits rather than taking even more away from one of the few classes that feels somewhat complete.


Every nerf you've received has been minimal, you are still the top dog by a long shot. That really speaks to how strong warlord really is.


ok youre going to pretend not to understand English, im not going to explain to you something you already comprehend.

Done with you, good day

here I'll make it easy for you. Here is the quote you want me to read and the response I initially gave to the quote. What does this have to do with what I said? Absolutely nothing.

SirCorrino
06-18-2017, 08:40 PM
His moveset lacking has done little to stop him from dominating the tournament scene. Quality over quantity.

Because as I said above, the defensive meta plays really, really well into his strengths, which is to play reactively and counter what the opponent tries, whether that be by parrying, interrupting their attacks with a headbutt or trading with his own heavy. Once the meta is changed with the upcoming defensive meta patch he will no longer be as good.

edit: and 1v1 is irrelevant, 4v4 balance is all the devs should realistically consider. The existence of archetypes in the game with widely different strengths/weaknesses and attack/defense strategies will make it absolutely impossible to get a good 1v1 balance.

Velentix
06-18-2017, 08:40 PM
His moveset lacking has done little to stop him from dominating the tournament scene. Quality over quantity.

in a 1v1 situation he will likely always be that good because he is a faster heavy that has loads of counter attacking abilities. strong defense and smart offense will get you to the top of most tourneys I don't think they should nerf him, I think they should make the other chars more rounded.

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:44 PM
in a 1v1 situation he will likely always be that good because he is a faster heavy that has loads of counter attacking abilities. strong defense and smart offense will get you to the top of most tourneys I don't think they should nerf him, I think they should make the other chars more rounded.

That would be great but I can't see them balancing the other 13 characters to get them to warlords level.

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:48 PM
Because as I said above, the defensive meta plays really, really well into his strengths, which is to play reactively and counter what the opponent tries, whether that be by parrying, interrupting their attacks with a headbutt or trading with his own heavy. Once the meta is changed with the upcoming defensive meta patch he will no longer be as good.

edit: and 1v1 is irrelevant, 4v4 balance is all the devs should realistically consider. The existence of archetypes in the game with widely different strengths/weaknesses and attack/defense strategies will make it absolutely impossible to get a good 1v1 balance.

Maybe but since we don't actually know what the defensive meta patch entails there's no point in making speculations. It's not like his offense is lacking in anyway. 1v1 clearly isn't irrelevant because that's what tournies have been about since the start. In 4s everyone is pretty much on the same level except for centurion so nerfs and buffs don't even really matter that much there. Focusing on balance on a mode that is barely effected by it doesn't make sense.

GladiatorHood
06-18-2017, 08:56 PM
Anto, shut up, thank you

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 08:57 PM
Anto, shut up, thank you

Nah

GladiatorHood
06-18-2017, 08:59 PM
Nah

Half of the comments here are placed by you, get out

SirCorrino
06-18-2017, 08:59 PM
Maybe but since we don't actually know what the defensive meta patch entails there's no point in making speculations. It's not like his offense is lacking in anyway. 1v1 clearly isn't irrelevant because that's what tournies have been about since the start. In 4s everyone is pretty much on the same level except for centurion so nerfs and buffs don't even really matter that much there. Focusing on balance on a mode that is barely effected by it doesn't make sense.

The focus on 1v1 tournaments is a community choice, not something the devs have insisted on. So that's not a good argument for/against 1v1 balance.

As for why they should focus on 4v4 balance. Catering too much to 1v1 balance can easily disrupt a class' ability to aperform its task in 4v4. For example Heavies need to be strong in 1v1 or 1vX in order to hold points. A Warlord, Conq or a hybrid like Lawbro should be able to survive for a very long time against almost all classes in 1v1 or 1v2 so that their team can come help if they're not able to kill them on their own. If that wasn't the case they wouldn't be able to perform their Dominion role of holding points. At the same time, Assassins should be able to kill most non-heavy classes fairly fast if they catch them by surprise, as befits their role as roamers. And Vanguards should be somewhere between and have fairly even matchups against everyone.

To take an example from a different style of game. Would you as a glass-cannon DPS in an MMO expect to take down a super tanky tank in a 1v1? Of course not, you're squishy and he'll be able to defend most of your attacks and kill you if you don't have help. Same thing if that tank goes against a healer or dps hybrid with self-healing, he may take some time to die but he won't be able to kill them through their healing. And that same glass cannon dps could probably drop the healer before he has time to heal himself very much.

The balance should be around team synergy and what each class brings to the table for a team mode, rather than how well each class fares against each other in a 1v1.

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 09:02 PM
Half of the comments here are placed by you, get out

Nah

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 09:05 PM
The focus on 1v1 tournaments is a community choice, not something the devs have insisted on. So that's not a good argument for/against 1v1 balance.

As for why they should focus on 4v4 balance. Catering too much to 1v1 balance can easily disrupt a class' ability to aperform its task in 4v4. For example Heavies need to be strong in 1v1 or 1vX in order to hold points. A Warlord, Conq or a hybrid like Lawbro should be able to survive for a very long time against almost all classes in 1v1 or 1v2 so that their team can come help if they're not able to kill them on their own. If that wasn't the case they wouldn't be able to perform their Dominion role of holding points. At the same time, Assassins should be able to kill most non-heavy classes fairly fast if they catch them by surprise, as befits their role as roamers. And Vanguards should be somewhere between and have fairly even matchups against everyone.

To take an example from a different style of game. Would you as a glass-cannon DPS in an MMO expect to take down a super tanky tank in a 1v1? Of course not, you're squishy and he'll be able to defend most of your attacks and kill you if you don't have help. Same thing if that tank goes against a healer or dps hybrid with self-healing, he may take some time to die but he won't be able to kill them through their healing. And that same glass cannon dps could probably drop the healer before he has time to heal himself very much.

The balance should be around team synergy and what each class brings to the table for a team mode, rather than how well each class fares against each other in a 1v1.

Then that means we should start nerfing shugo, conqueror, nobu, zerk, and kensei. all of them do incredibly well in 4s.

GladiatorHood
06-18-2017, 10:42 PM
Then that means we should start nerfing shugo, conqueror, nobu, zerk, and kensei. all of them do incredibly well in 4s.

Ur the kind of kid that gets salty after being thrown off a map by a warlord

Antonioj26
06-18-2017, 10:47 PM
Ur the kind of kid that gets salty after being thrown off a map by a warlord

Not really