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View Full Version : .50 cal effectiveness on destroyers and DEs



XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:13 AM
How many of us have seen .50 cal armed us fighters send an awful long stream of .50 cals into a destroyer or destroyer escort and watch it blow up. I have seen two different ships of this class blow up like this on gun camera footage and I have read about it a lot.

what do they hit to get a ship like this to blow up.

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:13 AM
How many of us have seen .50 cal armed us fighters send an awful long stream of .50 cals into a destroyer or destroyer escort and watch it blow up. I have seen two different ships of this class blow up like this on gun camera footage and I have read about it a lot.

what do they hit to get a ship like this to blow up.

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:34 AM
Go stand up next to a destroyer.

It's going to take a lot more than just some machine guns to kill it.









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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:47 AM
There's a reason they put a 75mm cannon on the B-25H.

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:55 AM
Weren't these Jap ships? A fifty is a big round. And those decks were probably teakor oak. Balsa wood to the fifty. Also, these ships were LOADED! You do the math.

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 08:29 AM
its a well known fact that US .50 cal rouonds could destroy tiger tanks and all ships up too and including aircraft carriers and battleships


in fact the US abandoned tprpedoes once they realised that a .50 cal round was capable of sinking any ship afloat


.50 cal could also sink submarines to a depth of 400 metres penetrate up to 10 metres of reinforced concrete and in post watr studies was very effective at knocking satellites out of orbit.





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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 08:50 AM
"You do the math."

Soo..

The USN suffered high casualties of sending heavy, lumbering torpedo planes at slow speeds and low altitudes which was easy prey for both AA fire and enemy fighters..

.. as well as sling the dive bombers through black skies filled with AA flaks on a death-defying bomb run..

..

..when all they really had to do was just stick two more .50s on a F6F Hellcat or a F4U-1 Corsair and go strafe it?

....


Man, remind the US Navy personnel to never take SATs. They really bad at math...




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Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 09:09 AM
I once had a long discussion on netwings about this very point.

If it were possible to sink a DD, it would likely have happened in the Pacific, where the vast majority of Allied aircraft were armed with 0.5" guns, fighting against a navy with plenty of destroyers and notorious for its poor damage control. However, I have studied the Pacific War for over two decades now and have not come across a single example of it happening.

The closest example I know of is an ex-Italian ship, of about the size of a USN DE, sunk by the Tuskagee airmen in the Adriatic in 1944 (IIRC). I have next to no information on the incident, but suspect that a ship at anchor, taken over from another navy, in a seondary theatre of a secondary front, was probably not in good fighting condition. There are lots of fans of the Tuskagee airmen here - can anyone provide more details?

This does not mean you could not damage the upperworks of a ship severely of course, but I doubt if sinking one was possible in all but the most unusual circumstances.

As an additional thought, if 0.5" fire could sink a ship, then 20mm cannon could also sink one. The Royal Navy operated in waters controlled by the Luftwaffe off Norway and Crete at times, but again I don't know of any ships lost purely to cannon-armed fighters rather than bombing or torpedoes in those circumstances either.

-------------------------------------

In January 1945 German officials from the Ministry of Armaments assessed what might have been produced in 1944 without the bombing. They estimated that German industry turned out 35% fewer tanks, 31% fewer aircraft and 42% fewer lorries than would have been possible otherwise.All the officials interviewed (after the war) stated that bombing was the factor responsible for the declining gains from rationalisation and for the eventual collapse of the economic structure after January 1945

Professor R.J. Overy, 'War and Economy in the Third Reich'

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 09:28 AM
why always the same nonsens about the 0.50.

- Tiger Tanks
- Destroyer
- shot down planes from a distance of 1 mile .


somebody with a new story ?



btw. Mr_Nakajima

good info in your sig,
about the Allied bombing.
+ enormous efforts for the AAA defense = were missing at the front.

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It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

Message Edited on 09/14/0308:29AM by Boandlgramer

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 09:56 AM
iv seen the film your talking about and those shipe were certainly not DD or DE they were maru's...transport ships.. and i dont know what there decks were made of but since iv seen the footage it must be wood decking

U.S. infantry 84-91

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 10:06 AM
Korolov wrote:
- There's a reason they put a 75mm cannon on the
- B-25H.

And the Mosquito used a 57mm one that was reportedly very efficient against ships (but, as far as I know, it was rather used to stop or heavily damage ships rather than to sink them (except small boats)).

For the .50s, I really doubt they could do anything to a destroyer, but they may have been usefull on small crafts such as torpedo boats (in Norway, in 1940, one of these was sunk by a norwegian He-115 after machine gun bullets had made mines or torpedoes explode on board).

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 10:18 AM
one last thought,, maybe the plane ahead of camera plane dropped a bomb!!!!

U.S. infantry 84-91

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 10:39 AM
I have many videos with ships being destroyed after a air attack using .50 cals only BUT the ships are only transports with little or no armour and it would have to be loaded with ammunition to blow apart like that.

I have also on the same video's similar attacks on heavy ships but although it looks like hell with all the bullet impacts any damage to the ship would minor but as for the crews manning AA guns well thats a differant story.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:05 AM
tenmmike wrote:
- iv seen the film your talking about and those shipe
- were certainly not DD or DE they were
- maru's...transport ships.. and i dont know what
- there decks were made of but since iv seen the
- footage it must be wood decking
-
- U.S. infantry 84-91


I think I know the difference between a transport and a DD or DE. the ship I am talking about that I saw was either a DE or a DD. so you havent seen the film I am talking about. the ship clearly had deck guns in fully enclosed turrets.

I am supprised that the explosion took place. I cant imagine what the rounds hit to cause such an explosion.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:55 AM
Now, I am not saying the .50s could sink ships.

A DD/DE type class ship did not have any armour per sa. The hull plating averaged 3/8"(10mm) thick with the upper works even thinner. There would be damage done of some sort.

--------

I have not tried any ship attacks lately with the new patch but what bugged me in the old versions was that there was no damage to the ships from a/c gunfire. Even gunboats were next to impossible to at least disable, never mind destroy, even using 20mm, or heavier, gunfire. Consentated gunfire to AA mounts or the bridge should have some effect on the ship.

Has the DM of the ships been improved?


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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:12 PM
50cals were used to destroy tigers, p-47's walked their guns up the road the tigers were on and bounced them into the belly, needless to say this tactic only worked on sealed reads etc as for a DD or DE, a lucky hit through to the boilers would sink one pretty fast

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:16 PM
WTE_Konigwolf wrote:
- 50cals were used to destroy tigers, p-47's walked
- their guns up the road the tigers were on and
- bounced them into the belly, needless to say this
- tactic only worked on sealed reads etc as for a DD
- or DE, a lucky hit through to the boilers would sink
- one pretty fast
-
-

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:47 PM
MiloMorai wrote:

Has the DM of the ships been improved?

Well I dont know how bad it was pre patch but at least you can kill them with rockets now ,dont know about just guns but I think not.


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