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yanon123789
06-16-2017, 01:53 PM
I’d hate to be “that guy”, but… “diversity”. I’m a little worried. OK, very worried. I know the team means well, but they have to be very cautious. I don’t want my favorite game of so many years be ruined over something like this. A game with strong political connotations like this needs to be handled well.

Off the bat, people have pointed out black stereotypes used towards Knox, and how he’s paired up with a black woman. Then people comment on “notice how the black characters are the ones doing crime, killing the police?” We know they’re doing this for the greater good, helping their team, but isn’t the character choice a little… unfortunate?

The BGAE universe has always been a mishmash of different ethnicities and cultures, but it never felt forced. But the explicit mention of a “multiethnic multicultural society” is very buzzword-y. And the slightest mention of “diversity” within any given media will have people looking for good, accurate representation, especially the aggressively PC crowd. And said crowd will slander you if you don't give them what they want.

A thing I’ve seen more people talk about is how there are no female hybrids. Or at least, we haven’t seen any. And how the men in the trailer are all hybrids while all the women are sex-appealed humans. Of course this isn’t entirely true, we see many human men in the concept arts. They’re all very different in terms of style, bodytype, etc.. But there are still no female hybrids, and the women humans are all thin. Normally, I wouldn’t really care about bodytypes, but you seem to really push “diversity”. The old women are cool, if anything. Inb4 you make a joke about how a fat character wouldn’t be able to do anything. Pey'j in the first game held up pretty well, and he’s 50 years old!. They could contribute their own valuable skills and strengths and talents to the team. If there’s overweight guys there, why not women? And is there a reason why there are no female hybrids in the story? Is there a layer of sexism we don’t know about, where they only make male hybrids? But then how do you explain Meï in the first game?

The thing that worried me the most at first which encouraged me to write this post, was the cultural aspect of it. When writing a story that includes things from so many cultures, you really have to study up. Get some experts to help out. Make it as accurate as possible. I’ve seen people worry about the portrayal and use of Chinese culture if anything, between the pig (forgot his name) and Li Daiyu. People don’t want these cultures to be shown as some kind of “accessory”. And I haven’t seen anyone complain about the Hindu and Buddhism themes, but that’s another thing I’m wary on. Religion is often treated as a very sensitive manner, and it’s cool it’s brought up since it is so taboo - it’s something a little different. But that’s something that needs to be heavily researched and studied as well, and handled with care.

All of these things, really, have to be handled with care. You’re trying to tell a very political story that’s very relevant with today. You have to be very careful. I know you can’t please everybody, but there’s a difference between someone not liking something because it isn’t their taste, versus someone being rightfully offended due to some lack of research and through-the-cracks racism. Unintentional racism can leave a bad impression. Especially if you keep using “diverse” as a key component to the game.

It feels really good to get this off my chest. BGAE is a fantastic game with a beautiful story which is why I made this post. I’d be absolutely torn if this long-awaited installment came across as insensitive. I love the premise of the game, how you’re aiming to be multicultural, but please make sure it’s really well-thought-out and not stereotyped or shallow.

Legion-495
06-16-2017, 02:41 PM
Super bad to get a game influenced by such matter.

Can't believe you talk about racism in a game^^ Basicly all are probably hybrids in the game and as fact are not human in that case. Can't believe people actually draw a line between a Ape-Hybrid and a stereotype for BlackPeople and it's doomsday if a black woman works with a Hybrid? IMO that's seeing something that does in fact not exist. Human mind likes to solve nonexistant riddles... funfact.

To say something to clear everything out about females. Sex sells. Simple. And we have not seen the game.

Religion and Cultures are inspired by some stuff in our world yet it's not the same. It distances itself very well so no worries here. The first game did too.
"very political story that’s very relevant with today" That depends on the person. And we don't even know the full story yet.

"people looking for good, accurate representation, especially the aggressively PC crowd"
It is fiction man. I guess I count myself to that PC crowd? I don't see that as the game is all about establishing its world. It has nothing to do with ours.

"why there are no female hybrids in the story?"
Which story? The game isn't even here.


May reads harsh to some but that was not my goal.
The Prequel as Ancel said is learning about this world. So it establishes its own thing and is in no way related to the real world. We have not seen anything that would support any of the claims except a trailer which is made to get attention.

Everything we talk about is because of that Trailer. Have you even seen the first games Trailer? Like for real. Who pins a game down only to the Trailer?

It's not like anyone would care about the religions in Skyrim or the races and racism in the game. In fact it is used for the game and worked out... I don't see any reason this won't work with any other game in it's own world.

yanon123789
06-16-2017, 03:09 PM
Super bad to get a game influenced by such matter.

I absolutely understand and I agree. The trailer in no way represents the final version of the game. Or any version of the game. The trailer was made in a way to draw in people who have not played the original. I wanted to bring up some of the common criticisms and backlash to the team, to at least make them aware. But they probably know some of it already (such as the cursing). :P I don't want crowds to judge the final game by the trailer.
As for the female hybrid part I was speaking hypothetically ^^ There could be a reason in the story why they're rarer or why we don't see them. Hybrids are being treated poorly, maybe the "big strong men" are used for colonization while the females are used as sex slaves or something similar? There's potential there I think.

gorkslasher
06-16-2017, 10:26 PM
I am way more worried about "gamer gaters" taking over who are worried about "diversity" (as only "SJW" apparently want that) who claim that there is a "PC police" than BG&E striking the "right tone".

I tried to find any sensible person who showed concern about racism in BG&E2. Only thing I could find was 4channers (http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/129626468/beyond-good-and-evil-2-shall-be-racist) who try to use it to stir more GG-like controversy. What really seems to be going on is that existing racist tropes are used by racists for their particular ends, rather than letting a game stand for itself, and if BG&E2 is going to be anywhere like BG&E I for one am not worried. That doesn't mean I'm not worried that there are going to be plenty of 4chan types who will try to stir controversy. I'm sure they are already trying simply because BG&E thematizes diversity.

Iocutus
06-17-2017, 12:48 AM
I am way more worried about "gamer gaters" taking over who are worried about "diversity" (as only "SJW" apparently want that) who claim that there is a "PC police" than BG&E striking the "right tone".

I tried to find any sensible person who showed concern about racism in BG&E2. Only thing I could find was 4channers (http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/129626468/beyond-good-and-evil-2-shall-be-racist) who try to use it to stir more GG-like controversy. What really seems to be going on is that existing racist tropes are used by racists for their particular ends, rather than letting a game stand for itself, and if BG&E2 is going to be anywhere like BG&E I for one am not worried. That doesn't mean I'm not worried that there are going to be plenty of 4chan types who will try to stir controversy. I'm sure they are already trying simply because BG&E thematizes diversity.

That's the /pol/ board, they only pretend to be racist because they think it's funny, the rest of 4chan is pretty ok :^).
In fact there have been a lot of /v/ thread talking positively but cautiously about it.

Ray970
06-17-2017, 01:24 AM
I don't understand how some people find racism in this trailer...they spent a lot of time and immagination to try to find it.
Anyway the game is about diversity and want to show that it's not important your origin,in a team all people are the same:)
Finally I don't like that when you do something you have to follow no sense "rule" to be "politically correct"...how a person can not be racist (so consider all people of every country the same,without difference) if I has to control each words that say or each images that show

yanon123789
06-17-2017, 04:02 AM
I really appreciate everyone's comments to this thread! I'm a little surprised people are being mature about this ^^;; But you all brought up good points that makes me feel better about the situation. Have many people from India or China given feedback? I've seen one or two that seemed to be into it. And I've seen a couple jokes, whether it's them being edgy or they found it actually funny, but I noticed it's usually white girls who are the ones getting offended. :P But I kind of expected that... People who intentionally try to start drama or controversy are pretty dangerous, I want the team to avoid it as much as they can. :x

While I do like the ambiguity of BGAE1, the traditional-meets-cyberpunk is a really neat look. What are some of the things you guys have seen surrounding this and your thoughts? What are some other "traditional-meets-cyberpunk" places you'd like to see? A wild-west themed city would be kind of cool. Imagine the design possibilities, like a jet-powered wagon. ^^ Space pirates meet space cowboys! They could have cattle and horse hybrids. Or a Victorian-era London with corgi hybrids...

TraceurX2012
06-17-2017, 05:07 AM
IMO when they say diversity I feel like its more towards hybrids vs humans, not black, white, asian etc. That could play a small part but the emphasis on the hybrids becoming slaves and rebeling is kinda like humans making robots then they want freedom. that old chestnut. I believe diversity for this kind of game could work not just between hybrids and humans but also pirates, pretty sure piratcy is frawned upon. Diversity not just in species but in what you do. I know we are all tired of hearing about it but I honestly dont mind it in beyond good and evil 2, if npc's will interact with you differently because your a pirate or a walking talking rhino, then I am up for it. Sounds like something that could be a cool dynamic.

Kingy77
06-17-2017, 08:42 AM
Hi yanon123789!

I usually hate when people find excuses to point out anything as being racist or sexist in movies or videogames, but I must admit your judgment about Knox and his accomplice in the trailer is quite fair... It is a little bit borderline to team-up a monkey with an afro-british accent with a black woman in this kind of situation. But as you said, you cannot judge a game by its trailer.

As for the presence of female hybrids in the game, I guess you were also referring to the first BGE, am I right?
Then yes, there was almost no female hybrids. There was a few though: Mamago brothers talk about their mother (which is likely to be a rhino hybrid).
There is also a sheep hybrid girl amongst Jade's orphans :
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/781623-beyond-good-evil-windows-screenshot-you-start-in-jade-s-orphanage.png

I'm sure there were more. We just didn't take notice at the time. But a good reason for the near-absence of female hybrid could be: they were created for hard work, not for intellectual, sexual or reproductive purposes.


The thing that worried me the most at first which encouraged me to write this post, was the cultural aspect of it. When writing a story that includes things from so many cultures, you really have to study up. Get some experts to help out. Make it as accurate as possible. I’ve seen people worry about the portrayal and use of Chinese culture if anything, between the pig (forgot his name) and Li Daiyu. People don’t want these cultures to be shown as some kind of “accessory”. And I haven’t seen anyone complain about the Hindu and Buddhism themes, but that’s another thing I’m wary on. Religion is often treated as a very sensitive manner, and it’s cool it’s brought up since it is so taboo - it’s something a little different. But that’s something that needs to be heavily researched and studied as well, and handled with care.

I understand what you mean. Although, in the first BGE, I never felt that Chinese cultures were used as an accessory. I always figured that it was used for several good reasons:

Chinese culture has a big chance to be part of all our lives in the future (and it was perceived as an even bigger probability in the early 2000s), so it was a relevant choice for a Sci-Fi video-game.
It was matching very nicely with the overall zen atmosphere of BGE1.
It was not the only culture present in the story: Jamaïcans (Mamago), Spanish/Mexican (races)...


I was picturing also a system of planets mixing cultures similar to ours (kind of like you exposed), but also in different stages of evolution. For all we know, these planets could not all be part of the "galactic civilization", and some of them (the further planets for example), could shelter very young civilizations: prehistoric, medieval, renaissance, WWI... Careful though, I'm not suggesting an Assassin's Creed kind of historical reproduction. More like the reproduction of an particular atmosphere, from a chosen time, and a chosen culture.
This idea came to me from a French comic-book I love: "Sillage" (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sillage_(bande_dessin%C3%A9e)) (apparently titled "Wake" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_(comics)) en English). :rolleyes:
We all talk about this kind of stuff in the "Give your IDEAS for the game" topic (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1688684-Give-your-IDEAS-for-the-game/page6).

bl4ckgriffin
06-17-2017, 09:07 AM
It is also posible that humans keep female hybrids somewere safe or only created male hybrids at first from fear of them escaping and growing in population.

WiwarK9
06-17-2017, 09:28 AM
https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/theirisnetwork/images/0/0b/Mei.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120219235651
I just can't believe everyone forgot about her... and they call themselves fan.

Kingy77
06-17-2017, 01:24 PM
https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/theirisnetwork/images/0/0b/Mei.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120219235651
I just can't believe everyone forgot about her... and they call themselves fan.
Ha ha! You're soooo right. And you wana know the worst thing? I was parsing through BGE1 characters images to choose an avatar, and I saw her picture and thought "Oh yeah, she looked so cool!"
And it was before writing my last post... :nonchalance: