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View Full Version : I hope they are setting a trend with the shinobi nerf



Baggin_
06-15-2017, 02:03 AM
So they take away sShinobis' 50/50. Now is it finally time to do it for Lb and Warden? I main Warden and I believe there should be no 50/50s. People won't be able to host tournaments without a license for this game because with 50/50 it becomes a game of luck and not skill.

Tirik22x
06-15-2017, 02:53 AM
I'm still new. What's 50/50?

Baggin_
06-15-2017, 03:09 AM
I'm still new. What's 50/50?

Moves that are unblockable moves that leads to a guaranteed hit and if you try to dodge the move it can turn into a guard break. So it's a 50/50 guessing game that can be spammed.

Tirik22x
06-15-2017, 04:11 AM
Thank you.

RLTygurr
06-15-2017, 04:21 AM
So they take away sShinobis' 50/50. Now is it finally time to do it for Lb and Warden? I main Warden and I believe there should be no 50/50s. People won't be able to host tournaments without a license for this game because with 50/50 it becomes a game of luck and not skill.

Shinobi was a bit of a special case, as is warden (which is being fixed tomorrow as well). Lawbringer's "50/50" isn't really that good. Yes, it gives an unblockable move, but you can dodge it. There is a small window of time where you can see their model moving to do the light attack before you can dodge it and know you're safe. Plus, if you do dodge it, you get a free guard break. It's really not that powerful, and I've actually seen certain people dodge toward me while I do it and they block it anyway.

Basically, you should be more concerned about warlord or centurion, whose headbutt can come out too fast from the dodge to know if it's a headbutt or a forward dodge into guard break, and whose kick can be used so late in the dodge that there's really no way to predict it, and the best you can do is react within 80-100ms of the kick being started in order to dodge it, and there's not enough recovery frames to punish it with anything besides a light attack on faster characters.

SplugeKing
06-15-2017, 04:40 AM
Shinobi was a bit of a special case, as is warden (which is being fixed tomorrow as well). Lawbringer's "50/50" isn't really that good. Yes, it gives an unblockable move, but you can dodge it. There is a small window of time where you can see their model moving to do the light attack before you can dodge it and know you're safe. Plus, if you do dodge it, you get a free guard break. It's really not that powerful, and I've actually seen certain people dodge toward me while I do it and they block it anyway.

Basically, you should be more concerned about warlord or centurion, whose headbutt can come out too fast from the dodge to know if it's a headbutt or a forward dodge into guard break, and whose kick can be used so late in the dodge that there's really no way to predict it, and the best you can do is react within 80-100ms of the kick being started in order to dodge it, and there's not enough recovery frames to punish it with anything besides a light attack on faster characters.

Warlords hadbutt is easy to dodge too. Plus he didn't get two free lights after

RLTygurr
06-15-2017, 04:42 AM
Warlords hadbutt is easy to dodge too. Plus he didn't get two free lights after

two lights that do about the same amount of damage as anyone else's single light.

Antonioj26
06-15-2017, 04:51 AM
Warlords hadbutt is easy to dodge too. Plus he didn't get two free lights after

Neither does centurion, he gets one. If warlords head butt is easy to dodge than so is centurions kick since it's slower

Baggin_
06-15-2017, 02:42 PM
Shinobi was a bit of a special case, as is warden (which is being fixed tomorrow as well). Lawbringer's "50/50" isn't really that good. Yes, it gives an unblockable move, but you can dodge it. There is a small window of time where you can see their model moving to do the light attack before you can dodge it and know you're safe. Plus, if you do dodge it, you get a free guard break. It's really not that powerful, and I've actually seen certain people dodge toward me while I do it and they block it anyway.

Basically, you should be more concerned about warlord or centurion, whose headbutt can come out too fast from the dodge to know if it's a headbutt or a forward dodge into guard break, and whose kick can be used so late in the dodge that there's really no way to predict it, and the best you can do is react within 80-100ms of the kick being started in order to dodge it, and there's not enough recovery frames to punish it with anything besides a light attack on faster characters.

Lbs' push by itself is easy to dodge yes, but the fact he can go right into it off of a block is a nightmare. I was fighting against a guy who would turtle up and keep doing it off of a block which just kept leading into the 50/50 which I couldn't guess right.

SplugeKing
06-15-2017, 02:56 PM
Neither does centurion, he gets one. If warlords head butt is easy to dodge than so is centurions kick since it's slower

Never said his wasn't and i would agree it is

UbiNoty
06-16-2017, 01:47 AM
We do like how 50/50s add a different dimension to fighting, so I don't know if you'll see them disappear right away - but I'll pass over your feedback.

BeefMan_
06-16-2017, 02:02 AM
We do like how 50/50s add a different dimension to fighting, so I don't know if you'll see them disappear right away - but I'll pass over your feedback.

I, too, enjoy games of chance in my skill-based fighting games.

That_guy44
06-16-2017, 02:10 AM
We do like how 50/50s add a different dimension to fighting, so I don't know if you'll see them disappear right away - but I'll pass over your feedback.

Yea i think that dimension is negative. 50/50s take away the skill aspect. The game at that point becomes a coin toss instead of skillful reaction based gameplay. Add in the fact that the 50/50s are low risk/high reward, and only a couple of characters have them. I don't see how a serious ranked mode can be implemented when matches are decided by heads or tails.

SirCorrino
06-16-2017, 02:59 AM
We do like how 50/50s add a different dimension to fighting, so I don't know if you'll see them disappear right away - but I'll pass over your feedback.

50/50s where both sides have to predict is fine. 50/50s where the attacker can wait and see what the defender does before making his decision are bad and should be eliminated from the game. Like you just did with Warden.

Knight_Gregor
06-16-2017, 02:35 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1668183-The-Warden-Problem-The-current-For-Honor-META?p=12638341&viewfull=1#post12638341

Taken from above:


The only problem I have with Warden is his cancel into guard break. Why Roman and Damian think this is acceptable is beyond me.

In their own words, taken from https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/news-community/152-289190-16/patch-notes-for-honor-v106 :

"We want Wardens to put a lot of pressure on their opponent with this move, but we don't want them to have such an advantage that they can force a response, react to the response, and punish the response."

They then follow up with:

"Now, the opponent can wait to dodge the Shoulder Bash until after it could still be cancelled into a Guard Break, but that window is intentionally very short to try to force players to have to make a read on each other, rather than simply reacting."

So essentially they want us to read minds. They want us to "Wait to dodge," "Rather than simply react."

Pain-Seeker
06-16-2017, 02:36 PM
We do like how 50/50s add a different dimension to fighting, so I don't know if you'll see them disappear right away - but I'll pass over your feedback.

"We like them so we removed shinobis" ubisoft logic ...

Lyskir
06-16-2017, 02:57 PM
We do like how 50/50s add a different dimension to fighting, so I don't know if you'll see them disappear right away - but I'll pass over your feedback.

It is extremely unfair if only a part of the heroes have a 50/50, give ALL heroes a 50/50 in some way OR remove that ****


It causes a large balance issue, I do not know why there is none at the devs team get that and that frustrates me...


50/50 heroes> non 50/50 heroes, its just that simple

Haemmerst0rm
06-16-2017, 04:04 PM
We do like how 50/50s add a different dimension to fighting, so I don't know if you'll see them disappear right away - but I'll pass over your feedback.

Well, your 50/50 is based on guesswork. That doesnt give any indication of skill. :)

Also, i want to add the next: If you keep lawbringer block shove light/gb, then you are giving him a reason to remain a turtler in the anti-parry meta. He just can abuse his 50/50 to win the games now you have given him guard switch speed. I hope you are really considering this, if not then youre only getting more problems and more whiners from the community in the anti-parry meta.

Blasto95
06-16-2017, 04:07 PM
"We like them so we removed shinobis" ubisoft logic ...

In combination with the rest of Shinobi's kit? Ya it was really really strong and Shinobi is still good without it.

A warden without his 50/50 Vortex? An absolute garbage of a hero.

That_guy44
06-16-2017, 04:18 PM
In combination with the rest of Shinobi's kit? Ya it was really really strong and Shinobi is still good without it.

A warden without his 50/50 Vortex? An absolute garbage of a hero.

You mean like the rest of the cast? He still has zone attack that locks your guard to one side. He still has parry and great top damage as well.

Blasto95
06-16-2017, 05:07 PM
You mean like the rest of the cast? He still has zone attack that locks your guard to one side. He still has parry and great top damage as well.

His ZA is also punishable on block and everyone knows he has a top parry and a quick top light. Thats it outside vortex.

You want heroes that have one quick move, and can parry? That would be Warden.

Decent Wardens dont just throw out ZA's because a decent player will block it and punish. Side lights are pointless to throw out there, Top light and ZA are the only two quick moves you have to watch out for, and everyone knows of his top parry. Lets add another hero to the Do Nothing and Turtle meta! Brilliant!

Knight_Gregor
06-16-2017, 05:26 PM
His ZA is also punishable on block and everyone knows he has a top parry and a quick top light. Thats it outside vortex.

You want heroes that have one quick move, and can parry? That would be Warden.

Decent Wardens dont just throw out ZA's because a decent player will block it and punish. Side lights are pointless to throw out there, Top light and ZA are the only two quick moves you have to watch out for, and everyone knows of his top parry. Lets add another hero to the Do Nothing and Turtle meta! Brilliant!

The point is that Ubisoft needs to decide which direction we're going in here. If 50/50s are going to be a thing then all classes need them. If not then they need to be removed. Plain and simple.

Lyskir
06-16-2017, 05:29 PM
The point is that Ubisoft needs to decide which direction we're going in here. If 50/50s are going to be a thing then all classes need them. If not then they need to be removed. Plain and simple.

10000% this

Blasto95
06-16-2017, 05:43 PM
The point is that Ubisoft needs to decide which direction we're going in here. If 50/50s are going to be a thing then all classes need them. If not then they need to be removed. Plain and simple.

I dont disagree with that, just I lean more towards keeping 50/50s as it can be effective vs Turtles. Anything to beat this Turtle meta is a good thing right now. Regardless if 1 hero has it and another does not, The defensive meta is the issue here. No one will enjoy this game if it becomes, who wants to attack first so you can get parried and punished. Without these 50/50s, it limits the already limited ways to open up a turtle.

Alchemist..
06-16-2017, 06:01 PM
It looks like they eliminating spammable moves and i would say its very good for game and basically new incoming players. Warden dont have anymore universal tool to fight with everyone, same shinobi. And now all unblockable non dmg attacks are same for whole roster. Everything is 600ms and leading only ro light attacks. Everything except headbutt, so i just waiting for nerf to headbutt.

Overall with parry nerf and spammable moves nerf, this game start looking like fighting game, so im pretty happy they decide to do it.