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TexasCaesar
06-13-2017, 05:22 AM
So, I did a little mini-review of Syndicate recently, but there was something I didn't really notice until a few days ago. I really dislike the way the game portrays women.

See, the thing is, Victorian Britain was known for being a "misogynist" society. Women were subject to all kinds of bizarre rules, they were disenfranchised, etc. In fact, there's even an argument to be made that it was one of the most patriarchal periods in history (as revisionists find that women weren't quite as "oppressed" in the Middle Ages as we once thought).

Yet none of that reflects in the game. Neither have I seen any racism appear, despite this being the age in which scientific racism was born.

Now, I could see an argument for including some female gangsters and a gang leader or two. After all, criminals aren't known for following the rules of society, and we have plenty of real examples of female gangsters. It's a little ridiculous, though, when over half of the gang leaders are women.

I find it disappointing that the game just glosses over the social issues that, in many ways, defined the period, and it really does weaken the experience by making the game feel less like the real London and more like a steampunk fantasy.

LieutenantRex
06-13-2017, 07:35 AM
Quiet, sweet prince. This is my job,

DynaRider
06-13-2017, 11:22 AM
It's a video game not a history lesson.

Helforsite
06-13-2017, 03:12 PM
I mean Syndicate generally wasn't dark enough, but shouldn't this be in the AC General Discussion thread, because it isn't about Origins?

VitoAuditore
06-13-2017, 03:45 PM
I think it has alot to do with the fact that some developers caved to the feminist/sjw demands. If they would have made syndicate realistic that way, you can be 100% sure feminists like anita sarkeesian would be on it like the rabid dogs that they are.

AssassinHMS
06-13-2017, 04:58 PM
In fact, there's even an argument to be made that it was one of the most patriarchal periods in history (as revisionists find that women weren't quite as "oppressed" in the Middle Ages as we once thought).

Women were never an oppressed group.


Also, you won't be seeing games depict women realistically as we all live in a very politically correct environment where women must be masculine since femininity is perceived as weak.
If anything, game developers will quickly cave in to SJWs, feminists and such pansies, in hopes of getting brownie points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3_1GfSju1M

strigoi1958
06-13-2017, 05:20 PM
You fail to mention the fact this game is about mass murder or is genocide politically correct as long as we don't hurt the feelings of those we kill first? ;)

I really do not recall PETA getting involved when Lemmings and worms were released but perhaps I missed that.

All joking aside, Dynarider got it right by saying "It's a video game not a history lesson." if you're looking for something more than fun and a challenge set in a historical era and setting with poetic licence then you shouldn't be playing this sort of video games... I truly worry about people when they find the lines blurred between reality and entertainment.

pirate1802
06-13-2017, 05:51 PM
Whoever said reality and entertainment are two rigid groups with no overlap in between? Do we really need to give out examples of works which are both entertainment and reality? Anyway the "Itz a gaem not history lesson" doesn't fly in the face of AC's own past record on these issues. Did we play the same AC III for example? What about AC I?

The real reason why these "heavy" topics weren't dealt with in Syndicate is because it was supposed to be a lighthearted game, like AC II, like ACIV and unlike AC III and Unity. ACs go through light and heavy phases if you haven't noticed. Light games tend to brush these issues under the carpet while heavy games tend to paint them in broad strokes.

strigoi1958
06-13-2017, 05:54 PM
you're still glossing over the mass murder ;) or is that part "just a game"? that you tend to brush under the carpet. lol

pirate1802
06-13-2017, 05:57 PM
You're glossing over the first line of my comment it seems. Just because it's a game and has certain gamey elements doesn't mean it can't have serious elements as well.

strigoi1958
06-13-2017, 06:10 PM
yes and where I come from murder is far serious than mysogyny but as some people are desperately trying to gather sympathy for a perceived injustice in a video game where there are much worse things...

I find it laughable.

If you condone murder as an acceptable part of gaming then find faults in lesser infractions... that is double standards.

To paraphrase Bruce Lee.... " a video game is like the moon, an element of the game is like a finger pointing the way to the moon, if you concentrate on the finger, you will miss all that heavenly glory"

I believe the Zombies right brigade are looking for members to protest the H1Z1 forums. If you're interested? ;)

pirate1802
06-13-2017, 06:25 PM
And now it seems like you glossed over my second paragraph as well. The game doesn't have these things because that's not in the game's tone. AC III had these elements because that was that game's decided tone. Each game has it's own direction. Syndicate is a happy trip to the disneyland kind of game and these 'issues' have no place there. Not because a videogame by definition is incapable of depicting this things, because AC itself has done it in the past.

Oh and by the way..

but as some people are desperately trying to gather sympathy for a perceived injustice in a video game where there are much worse things...

..if by worse things you mean the absence of a functional story then I wholeheartedly agree. It's a silly game that neither the devs nor you are supposed to take seriously, and that's why these gender research topics like this doesn't make sense.

Good thing that you mentioned zombies because you can have a mindless fun zombie game like the one you mentioned, and you can also have a dark and serious zombie game like TLoU. Even though it's basically set in a quasi-fantasy world, that game had one of the most realistic depictions of a strained father-daughter relationship I've ever seen..

strigoi1958
06-13-2017, 07:22 PM
1 is murder worse than mysogyny?
2 if someone is offended by perceived mysogyny in a game that contains mass murder shouldn't they be focused on the murder first?

I know you cannot answer that without having to remove the blinkers ;)

Pirate1802 said " Syndicate is a happy trip to the disneyland kind of game and these 'issues' have no place there" that's your opinion...
the last time I took my kids to disneyland i don't recall mass murder or any murder lol...

So you complain about the mysogyny then complain it shouldn't be there... who decides that? you? when were you elected world head of gaming, I missed the ballots :)

You need some perspective in your life.

For someone who can make a mountain out of a mole hill over video games... I really couldn't trust you to know what a realistic depiction is...

pirate1802
06-13-2017, 07:32 PM
You're mistaking me for OP. I never made a big deal about so-called misogyny in Syndicate. You need to be asking these questions to the ones pissed off by these stuff. I ain't. Maybe you need to go back and read a bit?


that's your opinion...

Thanks, Captain Obvious. What shall I do without you?


the last time I took my kids to disneyland i don't recall mass murder or any murder lol...

lol... murder of virtual pixels you mean? Sure, kids can do that.


For someone who can make a mountain out of a mole hill over video games... I really couldn't trust you to know what a realistic depiction is...

For someone with so poor a reading comprehension that he can barely keep track of who is saying what.... yeah, pot. Meet kettle.

To restate since you seem to be not grasping it: The perceived misogyny doesn't matter because Syndicate is a very lighthearted game. If he wants such issues to be tackled in a game then he's playing the wrong game to begin with. Clear?

strigoi1958
06-13-2017, 08:02 PM
I'm not confusing you with the op... you chose to support that side of the debate... or am I wrong?

You're the one who seems to think you decide what is gamey and what is serious and are the only one worthy to judge the games. As murder and mysogyny were the 2 topics I stuck with them.

You seem to think you should decide what should and shouldn't go into a game... you don't.... Ubi decide the story and content for their games, regardless of what you consider to be a functioning story or not. (I knew you'd find a way to get your dig in at ubi somewhere)

Based on historical settings doesn't means realistic... if you do not understand the difference you should not play these games.

pirate1802
06-13-2017, 08:42 PM
Yes, you are wrong. Quote me where I took his side and said the misssoginny is a big issue with this game. In fact I've been saying quite the opposite. And you've been too busy in coming up with snarky replies to notice it.


You're the one who seems to think you decide what is gamey and what is serious and are the only one worthy to judge the games. As murder and mysogyny were the 2 topics I stuck with them.

You seem to think you should decide what should and shouldn't go into a game... you don't.... Ubi decide the story and content for their games, regardless of what you consider to be a functioning story or not. (I knew you'd find a way to get your dig in at ubi somewhere)

I'm entitled to my opinions. As are you. Ubisoft is the creater, I am the consumer. They make a product and I give my opinions on their products. Is anything out of place here?


Based on historical settings doesn't means realistic.

Quote me where I said that. Go on.

Locopells
06-13-2017, 09:22 PM
Keep it civil guys...

AnimusLover
06-14-2017, 12:02 AM
I find it disappointing that the game just glosses over the social issues that, in many ways, defined the period, and it really does weaken the experience by making the game feel less like the real London and more like a steampunk fantasy.

Um, because that's what it is? A fantasy. Of all the things to complain about in a video game lol... gang members didn't have rope launchers - are you going to create an entire thread around that? Ridiculous.