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View Full Version : Origins looks way more similar to AC3-4 than it does to Unity



Sushiglutton
06-12-2017, 07:34 PM
Curious to hear if anyone else think this or if I'm seeing things. Especially the faces look real similar to how they did in AC4 imo. Unity had the best character faces I've ever seen, this is clearly a step back. Also the climbing looks very AC4. The way Bayek "jumps" up the wall. Wonder if that's why they "removed" the up/down parkour as it was sin fact never in this build. In AC4 the run button didn't really add that much when you think about it, so it would be rational to remove.

Perhaps they decided to go back after what happened to Unity?

wvstolzing
06-12-2017, 07:39 PM
Also the climbing looks very AC4.

That's how it looked to me as well. Perhaps because the environments were somewhat similar to bits of AC4's Havana as well.

On the other hand, I don't think they would've scrapped the Unity/Syndicate system altogether. The new parkour system was tied to a new template for environments; would they have thrown away that as well?

Sushiglutton
06-12-2017, 07:43 PM
That's how it looked to me as well. Perhaps because the environments were somewhat similar to bits of AC4's Havana as well.

On the other hand, I don't think they would've scrapped the Unity/Syndicate system altogether. The new parkour system was tied to a new template for environments; would they have thrown away that as well?

You are right about the enviroments. That's probably an even bigger reason to use the stuff they had in AC3-4. Lower average buildings, vegetation, rock climbing, animals etc.

Perhaps we will see Syndicate style return in a more urban game?

ModernWaffle
06-12-2017, 07:52 PM
This is clearly a step back. Also the climbing looks very AC4. The way Bayek "jumps" up the wall. Wonder if that's why they "removed" the up/down parkour as it was sin fact never in this build. In AC4 the run button didn't really add that much when you think about it, so it would be rational to remove.

I don't see it as a step back really - if it was it's a very minor one. I just think the graphical jump was just less than I had anticipated and though I'm a bit disappointed about this, the amazingly bright colour palette they've used for Egypt more than makes up for it.

I'm very confused if they have removed up/down parkour in its entirety. I thought it was more or less universally approved plus I can't imagine going back to a parkour system where I have to jump off a ledge to get down from a height during a chase etc. rather than making a smooth transition from higher platforms to the ground. The running thing is also a bit odd but Doom didn't have any sprinting feature and it worked out so much better in the end even though it sounded unwise pre-release.

joelsantos24
06-12-2017, 07:54 PM
Comparing the Caribbean with Ancient Egypt, is not very reasonable, in my opinion. They're very much different environments, in every sense. As far as the feeling it invokes, though, I might agree it does make me remember Black Flag, since we'll play in a huge open world, with vast open spaces filled with dense vegetation and infrastructure.

m4r-k7
06-12-2017, 07:55 PM
In terms of animation it looks like an AC 4 / Syndicate hybrid. But of course they have got rid of parkour up/down so I have no idea how this system will work and how it will be intuitive as how will the game know where we want to go? Also, is there going to even be a jump button? I hope they show more parkour at the conference today. Something that bugged me a bit was that Bayek did the crazy jump climbs that were present in Unity and Syndicate. I have always been a fan of a more manual and slower system, similar to what AC 1 was like, but I guess if the parkour is smooth and is fluid and works well, I won't complain,

BananaBlighter
06-12-2017, 08:06 PM
Nah, the climb leaping looks exactly like the animation from Syndicate. The rest look new. TBH though overall I think they're a bit too fast, especially the animation for the climbing startup.

rawr012
06-12-2017, 08:12 PM
Origins was supposedly develeoped by the team that created AC4 so makes sense. I'm not a fan of the huge jumps up to ledges like AC:Unity, it's as if we are superhuman. AC1-Brotherhood were the best and most realistic parkour/freerunning (wasn't a fan of grappling hook in Revelations but it grew on me.)

Sushiglutton
06-12-2017, 08:12 PM
Ok I guess it's just my imagination then. :)

wvstolzing
06-12-2017, 08:18 PM
Origins was supposedly develeoped by the team that created AC4 so makes sense. I'm not a fan of the huge jumps up to ledges like AC:Unity, it's as if we are superhuman. AC1-Brotherhood were the best and most realistic parkour/freerunning (wasn't a fan of grappling hook in Revelations but it grew on me.)

It wasn't just the huge jumps, but the 'floatiness' of the climbing as well. It was as though Arno was crawling on the walls, rather than climbing them -- he was definitely able to pull himself up without actually grabbing anything, which made him look like Spider-Man. I think this was somewhat rectified in ACS.

BananaBlighter
06-12-2017, 08:39 PM
Also, is there going to even be a jump button? Apparently you still hold A (Xbox) to climb and jump. Basically it's Unity's system without parkour down..

shobhit7777777
06-13-2017, 08:26 AM
I agree.

I does look like it's from the AC3 family.

I'm - quite frankly - disappointed with what I saw. Origins seems like another Black Flag....it'll be an enjoyable, fun game but not the AC game I was hoping it'd be.
There are too many borrowed elements and the focus is entirely on the Action-RPG experience than anything that makes the Assassin's Creed experience compelling.

I feel that the devs realize that the "Social Stealth" elements cater only to a niche...and have gone all the way in sidelining what I consider to be the core - rather the promise - of the original Assassin's Creed experience.

I felt Unity was a step in the right direction but Origins seems like a complete sidestep.

Game looks gorgeous, though

doogsy91
06-13-2017, 09:49 AM
I agree.

I does look like it's from the AC3 family.

I'm - quite frankly - disappointed with what I saw. Origins seems like another Black Flag....it'll be an enjoyable, fun game but not the AC game I was hoping it'd be.
There are too many borrowed elements and the focus is entirely on the Action-RPG experience than anything that makes the Assassin's Creed experience compelling.

I feel that the devs realize that the "Social Stealth" elements cater only to a niche...and have gone all the way in sidelining what I consider to be the core - rather the promise - of the original Assassin's Creed experience.

I felt Unity was a step in the right direction but Origins seems like a complete sidestep.

Game looks gorgeous, though
I agree completely... I'm quite underwhelmed by this demo as I was with Black Flag's debut demo. I remember you saying the same thing at the time too.

Syndicate and now this both look like steps backward from Unity in terms of combat and navigation to me. And it's quite apparent that this is from the same team as Black Flag purely based upon the larger and more natural gameworld. I liked AC4 but I think AC works best in dense urban playgrounds and AC4 only had one in the form of Havana and even that was fairly small. I realise we haven't seen either of Origins' two main cities so I can only hope that the game looks better in those settings.

I don't understand why Unity still doesn't get seen in a more positive light, retrospectively. Mechanically and in terms of the world it is absolutely sublime IMO.

jayjay275
06-13-2017, 09:54 AM
To be honest, Unity's combat was a definite step in the right direction. It's a shame they keep changing combat every single game. :|

ModernWaffle
06-13-2017, 11:05 AM
I agree.

I does look like it's from the AC3 family.

I'm - quite frankly - disappointed with what I saw. Origins seems like another Black Flag....it'll be an enjoyable, fun game but not the AC game I was hoping it'd be.
There are too many borrowed elements and the focus is entirely on the Action-RPG experience than anything that makes the Assassin's Creed experience compelling.

I feel that the devs realize that the "Social Stealth" elements cater only to a niche...and have gone all the way in sidelining what I consider to be the core - rather the promise - of the original Assassin's Creed experience.

I felt Unity was a step in the right direction but Origins seems like a complete sidestep.

Game looks gorgeous, though

Actually now that you mention it, I realise I'm excited for Origins as a game, but not as an AC game like Unity which honestly felt at the time a real revamp of the series. A bit unfortunate but guess I've already accepted the loss of clear direction for the franchise so all I'm looking for now is if the game itself is just fun rather than an embodiment of past AC experiences.

Xangr8
06-13-2017, 11:41 AM
I'm almost certain that they're using the upgraded Unity/Syndicate engine. The cloth physics definitely belong to the upgraded engine and the Bayek also seems to share his sprint animation with Arno. The parkour seems like AC4's but if you look closely, you'll notice that it's more reminiscent of Syndicate with those leaps and jumps. The lighting also looks a lot of Unity's. About the facial animations, if you watch IGN's demos, you'll notice that they're more similar to Syndicate's than Unity's, which had brilliant facial animations, BTW. It would be silly for them to just throw the upgradations out of the window and go back to AC4's engine, after the graphical and gameplay enhancement the current gen games benefitted from.

harsab
06-13-2017, 01:01 PM
I really don't understand most peoples problems with the graphics of this game. I understand if some are not too impressed with the facial animations but even when facial animations have a life like look they tend to look very unrealistic & unnatural, Almost like they're face is plastic. But other then the facial animations, EVERY single person that's played the game has said its one of the most gorgeous games they've ever played. Youtubers, IGN etc.

It looks 100x better then BF & AC3. Especially the environment. The sea & dessert game play looked incredible.

rawr012
06-13-2017, 01:14 PM
To be honest, Unity's combat was a definite step in the right direction. It's a shame they keep changing combat every single game. :| Couldn't have said it better myself. Ubisoft if you actually read these forums...Unity's combat would be perfect in this game! Especially without the nuisance of guns.

Bastiaen
06-13-2017, 04:14 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself. Ubisoft if you actually read these forums...Unity's combat would be perfect in this game! Especially without the nuisance of guns.

That is very true, since most of the weapon types were the same.
Personally, I don't think the combat looks too bad, except the huge and ridiculous camera shake that happens with every hit. If they can tone that down, or put in an option to disable screen shake (like in MGSV:TPP, which made me motion sick until I disabled it, I couldn't even sprint). If they remove that, this game could be great. I just want to see more combat finishers.

RzaRecta357
06-13-2017, 05:55 PM
I feel like they got rid of that buggy but beautiful engine they had for the last two games and just created something new out of their old one or maybe even made a new one out of both or something. The game clearly fights and plays like The Witcher mixed with older Assassin's Creeds and that's seriously awesome if you ask me lol.

VestigialLlama4
06-13-2017, 06:13 PM
I also got AC3-Black Flag flashbacks, mainly for the part where Bayek parkours through trees to reach that target in the 5 minute gameplay.

And LET ME SAY HOW HAPPY I AM THAT THE GAME WILL NOT RESEMBLE THE AWFUL-MEDIOCRE DESIGN OF UNITY AND SYNDICATE.

For me this is not a step backward at all. This is stepping back on track after derailing themselves.

And to those who say that this game is not like AC3 and Black Flag.

Well as I have said repeatedly, any game in the Ancient World will resemble what you get in AC3 and Black Flag.. You are going to have small settlements without high ceilings, lots of countryside. ORIGINS has Rock Climbing...the last game that had Rock Climbing was AC3, where you could climb up cliffs and declivities and go spelunking down caves and waterfall cavities.

And more importantly, Bayek is Connor you guys. A member of a group of people in a land occupied by foreigners, very serious, earnest, religious and believing in Egyptian religion, a sheriff who the people trust and look up to...he is the most Connor-like protagonist since Connor.

harsab
06-13-2017, 06:24 PM
I
And more importantly, Bayek is Connor you guys. A member of a group of people in a land occupied by foreigners, very serious, earnest, religious and believing in Egyptian religion, a sheriff who the people trust and look up to...he is the most Connor-like protagonist since Connor.

But i don't think he will be like Connor personality wise. He seems way more badass from what i've gathered so far, so let's hope i'm right lol.

wvstolzing
06-13-2017, 06:27 PM
But i don't think he will be like Connor personality wise. He seems way more badass from what i've gathered so far, so let's hope i'm right lol.

'More badass than Connor' -- what? How's that possible? Unless you mean 'having a streak of arrogance and *****ness'; in which case he might be closer to the young Altair ... hmmm ...

m4r-k7
06-13-2017, 06:28 PM
Bayek seems like a more friendly version of Connor. Having a character in his 30s is a fresh move.

BananaBlighter
06-13-2017, 06:38 PM
I don't know how people can't see that the animations are taken from Syndicate, not AC4. Climb leaping, vaulting, ledge assassinations are just a few which I've noticed are identical to those in ACS.

@Vestigial you do realise there was tree climbing in Unity and Syndicate, it was just not very prominent (for obvious reasons). That part in the walkthrough where he hops onto the tree uses jumping animations that look very Syndicatey rather than the more smooth leaping that we got in AC3. Don't think this game is going to have tree climbing like AC3 - it'll probably be a very minor thing just like ACU/S. Rock climbing is back, but it's a completely reworked system that is more automatic and less scripted, which is why it looks REALLY bad.

VestigialLlama4
06-13-2017, 06:43 PM
But i don't think he will be like Connor personality wise. He seems way more badass from what i've gathered so far, so let's hope i'm right lol.

Connor at the age of 15 fought Cougars, could fight bears, fought armed contingent, and later fought whole armies and he fought dudes with guns, cannons and grenades as opposed to Bayek who fights people in spears, arrows, shields.


Bayek seems like a more friendly version of Connor. Having a character in his 30s is a fresh move.

Not sure what you mean by "more friendly version". Bayek is Connor-in-Homestead based on the interactions we see with the people going to the Medjai. Connor was friendly to his village and the Homestead and unfriendly with white settlers. In the gameplay video we see Bayek interact with a Greek farmer and there's similar tension between him "A son of Egyptian blood" (as the Greek calls him) and him. Check out opening minutes in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3rb0SmlELg


There are of course differences. Bayek is not entirely Connor, but he is most similar to Connor than he is to other Assassin protagonists. He is different in that his people are not a minority reduced by disease and ethnic cleansing and the Egyptian people are much larger in number than the Mohawk, so he's not as lonely. Also his name is Bayek, one-word just like Ratohnhake;ton/Connor is whereas the other Assassins had full names.

He is in his thirties and not a young guy whereas all the AC protagonists we play as start as young. Altair was late 20s in AC1, Ezio was a teenager who becomes a forty year old in AC2 (and as Darby McDevitt pointed out, Ezio's aging didn't come across very well and he still feels adolescent even at the end of AC2). Connor is a young man at the start of AC3 and becomes a late 20s guy at the end, Black Flag has Edward Kenway very young, as does Unity and Syndicate.

Comparing Bayek to Altair as the developers are doing makes no sense at all. Altair was an arrogant d--k for the early part of AC1, he was an atheist and freethinker. Bayek is humble, calm and respectful and he is also religious, he mentions Anubis sincerely. Connor likewise believed in the "Great Spirit" and Native American beliefs. The developers said that Bayek has an "intensity" which is pretty much codespeak for "Connor" but they mention Altair instead. They'd just save time by saying, "he's not white". Because as we know from AC games, only white protagonist get to brash, devil-may-care cool guys.

rawr012
06-13-2017, 06:46 PM
The environment resembles Black Flag while the climbing, ledge assassinations, sprinting etc looks like Syndicate/Unity. I just wish they used the combat system from Unity in this game, I think it would work really well in Ancient Egypt as opposed to the arcade style they currently have where it looks like Elder Scrolls Online or Dark Souls.

harsab
06-13-2017, 06:46 PM
Connor at the age of 15 fought Cougars, could fight bears, fought armed contingent, and later fought whole armies and he fought dudes with guns, cannons and grenades as opposed to Bayek who fights people in spears, arrows, shields.
.

But did he fight a giant snake (presumably) God though?

m4r-k7
06-13-2017, 06:55 PM
Not sure what you mean by "more friendly version". Bayek is Connor-in-Homestead based on the interactions we see with the people going to the Medjai. Connor was friendly to his village and the Homestead and unfriendly with white settlers.s.

Precisely, Connor was basically only friendly to those in the Homestead. Most other conversations were dealt with in a more conflicting tone, with very little room for "humour" or "fun". Of course, this was due to many factors. Bayek seems to carry that combative outlook like Connor, but Bayek seems to be more open in his emotions - the way he interacts with the girl (Shadya I think her name is) and the other characters. He doesn't instigate conversation with conflict, which is what Connor tended to do. Although, of course we haven't seen much of his character so it is hard to make a definitive comparison.

VestigialLlama4
06-13-2017, 06:57 PM
@Vestigial you do realise there was tree climbing in Unity and Syndicate, it was just not very prominent (for obvious reasons). That part in the walkthrough where he hops onto the tree uses jumping animations that look very Syndicatey rather than the more smooth leaping that we got in AC3. Don't think this game is going to have tree climbing like AC3 - it'll probably be a very minor thing just like ACU/S. Rock climbing is back, but it's a completely reworked system that is more automatic and less scripted, which is why it looks REALLY bad.

The part in the walkthrough has him parkouring through tree-spaces...and that animation is very much like AC3. It's not hundred percent but it is close enough. And I don't know what you mean "less scripted". In AC3 you could do rock climbing...you could climb up and down declivities and hang off cliffs. The Davenport homestead area right over Achilles' manor looking down on the bay with the Aquila can be climbed from bottom to the top, there's a cave there with a treasure chest even. The rock climbing the little we see does indeed look worse than AC3 (leave alone Breath of the Wild). But let's give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being. And you know the open countryside and wide-open spaces is very much analogous to AC3 which after all introduced animals, hunting and other systems. Animals is back in AC after Unity and Syndicate.


But did he fight a giant snake (presumably) God though?

Well before he finished his 30s, he fought King Washington on a Giant Pyramid. Washington is an American God and he was the most powerful piece of eden wielder we had. And Tyranny of King Washington is the first time that AC introduced out-and-out fantastic/magical elements into the series. So yes Connor fought a god before he left his 20s. He fought cougars and bears, and other beasts and won.

And let's not forget the flying eagle originated in AC3's Dream Quest mission where Connor incarnates as an Eagle flying over spaces and listening to Juno. From there they moved it to Far Cry Primal and now brought Senu into the series. And also that bit where we see Bayek using animals to distract guards and trigger fights between animals, that happened in AC3 too, there was even an achievement for it.

So yes, ORIGINS is the true AC3 sequel, "true" AC fans (heh heh) have been waiting for all this time.

VestigialLlama4
06-13-2017, 07:05 PM
Precisely, Connor was basically only friendly to those in the Homestead. Most other conversations were dealt with in a more conflicting tone, with very little room for "humour" or "fun". Of course, this was due to many factors. Bayek seems to carry that combative outlook like Connor, but Bayek seems to be more open in his emotions - the way he interacts with the girl (Shadya I think her name is) and the other characters. He doesn't instigate conversation with conflict, which is what Connor tended to do. Although, of course we haven't seen much of his character so it is hard to make a definitive comparison.

A lot of projecting we see here...look all AC protagonists are jerks and A-Hole. Altair in AC1 was a d--k 70% of the time, whining to Al Mualim about why he had to start as a novice when he was obviously the superstar. Altair more or less does instigate conversation into conflict. Ezio in Brotherhood is more or less Mr. My-Way-Best-Way-Amici to Machiavelli and others. He and Machiavelli but heads like Altair and Malick before making up.

And Edward Kenway in Black Flag was closest to Altair, and he also instigated conversations into conflict. Mr. "Shut-Your-Gob" who always talks smack to Mary Reade and Ah Tabai. And then you have Arno in Unity who also has a bad relationship with most people except Elise and even her he's not a good boyfriend to. Syndicate is also pretty bad with Jacob being a jerk to Evie and Henry Green, and as we see in Jack the Ripper DLC, never quite improved as his sense of judgment.

Basically people have different standards. Connor and other AC Protagonists, as if Connor were somehow ''different'' and ''not a real Assassin". Hmmm....I wonder why...

ModernWaffle
06-13-2017, 07:06 PM
And LET ME SAY HOW HAPPY I AM THAT THE GAME WILL NOT RESEMBLE THE AWFUL-MEDIOCRE DESIGN OF UNITY AND SYNDICATE.

For me this is not a step backward at all. This is stepping back on track after derailing themselves.

Can't say for certain but aren't the animations more akin to Unity/Syndicate? E.g. When Bayek runs up the wall sideways that's definitely from Unity. Even then it's hard to determine because I think they're trying something new - climbing looks to be even more mindless than Unity/Syndicate - to cater to the climb anywhere feature including mountains. Might be because of the alpha build but Bayek doesn't seem to have structured climbing a lot of the times he just makes a lot of big leaps and gets to the top of buildings quite unnaturally.


Well as I have said repeatedly, any game in the Ancient World will resemble what you get in AC3 and Black Flag.. You are going to have small settlements without high ceilings, lots of countryside. ORIGINS has Rock Climbing...the last game that had Rock Climbing was AC3, where you could climb up cliffs and declivities and go spelunking down caves and waterfall cavities.

And more importantly, Bayek is Connor you guys. A member of a group of people in a land occupied by foreigners, very serious, earnest, religious and believing in Egyptian religion, a sheriff who the people trust and look up to...he is the most Connor-like protagonist since Connor.

Think rock climbing will be quite different this time but I'm so happy to go back to vast natural environments. Paris and London looks amazing and real credit to those responsible for designing the cities but the natural landscapes of Egypt are just on a whole new level. Honestly, this is one of my favourite part of Origins, having a protagonist again who doesn't seem to have a laughable ambition like Romeo Arno or Gangster Jacob.



I don't know how people can't see that the animations are taken from Syndicate, not AC4. Climb leaping, vaulting, ledge assassinations are just a few which I've noticed are identical to those in ACS.

Generally speaking yes I'm seeing more of Syndicate's animations but they're kind unpolished and this wasn't something I noticed whilst playing Syndicate. Convinced that they've taken that system but are tweaking it, for better or worse, so that it's even more free flowing than before. Hence the stuttered animations here and there.


Rock climbing is back, but it's a completely reworked system that is more automatic and less scripted, which is why it looks REALLY bad.

As I mentioned previously, Bayek doesn't clearly hold onto anything like Connor did. In Breath of the Wild it worked because Zelda is based as a fantastical setting so realism isn't as important. I'd say the opposite is true for AC. So whilst I like the idea of being able to climb any mountain since it was a really fresh feature in BOTW, really hoping they fix the animations so they look more realistic.

Sushiglutton
06-13-2017, 07:09 PM
I haven't played Syndicate, which is why I didn't recognize the animations. I'm playing Unity now and I mostly reacted because I thought the faces here didn't look as good. And then my mind wandered. I kind of react making the thread now as it seems like real negative, which wasn't my intent. I really like a lot of what has been shown. The more I watch the more I like the game actually.

harsab
06-13-2017, 07:10 PM
<p>
I haven't played Syndicate, which is why I didn't recognize the animations. I'm playing Unity now and I mostly reacted because I thought the faces here didn't look as good. And then my mind wandered. I kind of react making the thread now as it seems like real negative, which wasn't my intent. I really like a lot of what has been shown. The more I watch the more I like the game actually.</p>
you haven't played syndicate? pretty shocking. how comes?

Sushiglutton
06-13-2017, 07:13 PM
you haven't played syndicate? pretty shocking. how comes?

Because I was angry at the milking. And because I thought the gameplay looked very trashy. I really like AC as a franchise and I just couldn't support the BS anymore.

wvstolzing
06-13-2017, 07:18 PM
Because I was angry at the milking. And because I thought the gameplay looked very trashy. I really like AC as a franchise and I just couldn't support the BS anymore.

I also played it quite a while after release. I wasn't going to ... but then I became aware of the gloriously silly prospect of getting jobs from Darwin and Marx, so I couldn't resist.

ModernWaffle
06-13-2017, 07:27 PM
I haven't played Syndicate, which is why I didn't recognize the animations. I'm playing Unity now and I mostly reacted because I thought the faces here didn't look as good. And then my mind wandered. I kind of react making the thread now as it seems like real negative, which wasn't my intent. I really like a lot of what has been shown. The more I watch the more I like the game actually.

Haha, nah the thread is offering some interesting discussion. I find it funny since I'm concerned with the animations but I didn't - and still don't - tag it to either set of games when I first saw footage of Origins. In a broader sense I can never understand how people say there is a large difference between AC3/AC4 or Unity/Syndicate/Origins in appearances, to me the graphical changes are minimal each next instalment but what changes instead are the textures and lighting.

VestigialLlama4
06-13-2017, 07:49 PM
I also played it quite a while after release. I wasn't going to ... but then I became aware of the gloriously silly prospect of getting jobs from Darwin and Marx, so I couldn't resist.

Pity those missions are more or less like the errands of AC3 and AC2, just dropping letters or supplies near and far. The final cutscene with Marx was pretty good I will admit:
Jacob: You don't give up do you.
Marx: We seem to have that in common! Auf wiedersehen, my friends.

That part does capture some of the spirit of the guy. Otherwise you have a pretty safe and conventional portrait. And it's a pity they couldn't give him a bigger role.Syndicate is better than UNITY and ROGUE, which is not saying much. It's a thoroughly mediocre game, with good and bad parts. Just gloriously goofy and silly, and full of wasted potential (how I feel about all the last three games). I really don't think Victorian England was a good AC setting, if they wanted to do England, they should have gone to the Elizabethan Era. Assassin's Creed fit that era better. And of course they are probably never going to go there. So far I am getting good vibes from Origins. It is borrowing some stuff from Syndicate and Unity as some have noted but the feel and aesthetic is entirely different.

The main thing I loathed about Unity and Syndicate was the aesthetic, chiefly the Eagle Vision which made guards and everyone see through and made them into floating red blobs through the walls. This utterly destroyed the architectural beauty and recreation and made the screen cluttered. Now of course, Syndicate and Unity stole that from Black Flag, but in Black Flag, the highlighted guards while see-through and present didn't clutter up the screen because 1) They only had a reddish tinge and not fully Red Blobs, 2) The natural setting and countryside accomodated that clutter better because nature and the wilderness is supposed to be cluttered and filled up.

And lets' get one thing straight. UNITY and SYNDICATE stole most of its ideas from Black Flag. The Stealth Room system comes from Black Flag, the see-through Eagle Vision through walls comes from Black Flag. It's astounding how gaming critics and fans have memories of goldfish and don't properly credit ideas to the creators that made them. Black Flag despite being "the pirate game" had the most systemic stealth of the games and provided a pattern for Unity and Syndicate, and I presume Origins. So now Ashraf Ismail is merely getting his own back.


Haha, nah the thread is offering some interesting discussion. I find it funny since I'm concerned with the animations but I didn't - and still don't - tag it to either set of games when I first saw footage of Origins. In a broader sense I can never understand how people say there is a large difference between AC3/AC4 or Unity/Syndicate/Origins in appearances, to me the graphical changes are minimal each next instalment but what changes instead are the textures and lighting.

Assassin's Creed has always been an iterative franchise. Every game really builds on the features of the previous annualized release, and in some cases step back. So each game has qualities of Add/Subtract Ratio. Like if you compare the natural environments of AC3 to Black Flag and then Rogue, you will see a real downgrade. AC3's Trees look and feel like real trees whereas Black Flag's looks like Gym bars and twigs. Black Flag's natural environment is more streamlined, deliberately so to accomadate the sea gameplay. Its aesthetics and the Caribbean setting made it stand out but not by much. ROGUE which is set in New England like AC3 took a similarly downgraded approach and most obnoxiously used Havana Colours for New York even if it didn't make any sense geographically. Syndicate likewise looked more streamlined than Unity. Going back, AC2 was a downgrade from AC1 both graphically and in terms of combat controls. The character models of AC2 was very cartoony (which is apparent in the remastered version), but Brotherhood and Revelations fixed that, and made it graphically richer. The character models of ACB is better than AC2 and Revelations had the best (and to me Revelations is one of the best AC titles).

But to me ORIGINS is the most ambitious and high concept game since AC3. So that's what I like about it...so far...

BananaBlighter
06-13-2017, 08:23 PM
The part in the walkthrough has him parkouring through tree-spaces...and that animation is very much like AC3. It's not hundred percent but it is close enough. And I don't know what you mean "less scripted". In AC3 you could do rock climbing...you could climb up and down declivities and hang off cliffs. The Davenport homestead area right over Achilles' manor looking down on the bay with the Aquila can be climbed from bottom to the top, there's a cave there with a treasure chest even. The rock climbing the little we see does indeed look worse than AC3 (leave alone Breath of the Wild). But let's give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being. And you know the open countryside and wide-open spaces is very much analogous to AC3 which after all introduced animals, hunting and other systems. Animals is back in AC after Unity and Syndicate.

It's hard to describe but the way that the jump itself is smooth but the landing is rather sudden and stiff is very typical of the similar Syndicate jump animation. By contrast, AC3 jumping animations (and animations in general) had very realistic physics, with the take-off, flight and landing all feeling very smooth. AC3 has undoubtedly the best parkour animations I have seen in any game. I'm almost 100% surety jumping animation was taken from ACS rather than AC3.

Apparently the way the rock climbing works in Origins is that the game looks for certain shapes in the terrain and builds the movements around that. While AC3 has admittedly very flexible rock climbing (especially compared to Rogue, which basically gave us ladders made out of cliff faces), the hand holes had been manually built in to the rock faces. You could not climb any rock, just the ones that the developers intended you to climb. On the other hand, in ACO, the rocks weren't designed for climbing, but the system was designed to take the existing environment and adapt the climbing around that. In other words, in Origins you can climb literally anything that seems remotely climbable. Because of the way the game has to often try and fit climbing animations around awkward and unexpected shapes, it can look REALLY bad.

m4r-k7
06-13-2017, 08:30 PM
It's hard to describe but the way that the jump itself is smooth but the landing is rather sudden and stiff is very typical of the similar Syndicate jump animation. By contrast, AC3 jumping animations (and animations in general) had very realistic physics, with the take-off, flight and landing all feeling very smooth. AC3 has undoubtedly the best parkour animations I have seen in any game. I'm almost 100% surety jumping animation was taken from ACS rather than AC3.


This. The animations are so sudden and clunky, which is so much different to that of AC 1 - AC 4. I noticed it in Unity as well as Syndicate. The animations don't flow well together. Its a real shame as the parkour used to be so smooth in the earlier games. I was hoping Origins would fix the parkour animations, but it seems like a lot of the clunkiness is still there.

WendysBrioche
06-13-2017, 10:00 PM
Graphics are fine imo. Faces don't look any worse than Syndicate, I personally think they're somewhat better honestly....




Perhaps we will see Syndicate style return in a more urban game?

Oh yes, you can definately xpect that.

Remember, the plan was never to go back in time for current gen consoles. Early word from those involved with the series at the start of this current generation of gaming all stated they planned to stick with the more closer-to-modern-era-urban settings, with guns and stuff, and only move forward in time.

It should be no surprise there's a few small/minor steps back in this regard, as all the tech they've developed has been for heavy urban settings these past few years.

I don't think Origins animations for parkour are really that bad though, they look fine to me. Foot placement is different per the angle/level of the ground relevant to the player character,

The walking and running looks just as good as it did in Syndicate and Unity, at least to me.