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View Full Version : Is Connor a great Assassin?



joshoolhorst
06-09-2017, 07:11 PM
I see many people say he is not a Assassin on Youtube for example.
Do you people think he is a good Assassin?

cawatrooper9
06-09-2017, 07:44 PM
How is he not an Assassin?

Bastiaen
06-09-2017, 07:47 PM
I like Connor's character arc. That doesn't mean that I think he's the best Assassin. It's complicated. I prefer his story, his transition from naivete to skepticism.
I really like playing as him. But if the judgment is about whether he closely follows the Creed? Well, not always, but none of our characters really followed the Creed perfectly.

VestigialLlama4
06-09-2017, 08:06 PM
I have to know what people mean by "Real Assassin"...

The Only Real Assassin in the game is Altair in AC1. He's in an era and setting where the Asasiyun are a historical reality. While the rest are just metaphors. Connor is as real an Assassin as Ezio, Edward, Adewale, the Fryes, Desmond and whatever.

Now if we break down the question into "Whether Connor is a great character", "Whether Connor is a Great Assassin in the story-and-Lore sense", whether "Connor is a Great Player Character" then it becomes interesting.

Now obviously part of these parameters are subjective...but the question of whether Connor is a "Great Assassin in the story-and-Lore sense" is unambiguous. He absolutely is.

As per Pierre Bellec, Connor brought the Assassins "from Nothing to Power". I mean even Ezio didn't start with such a bad hand. Sure his father and brothers died, but Ezio still had Paola, Volpe, Uncle Mario, and Others looking out for him, mentoring him and helping him around. All Connor had was Achilles and that's it...

...Connor personally recruited and built the Brotherhood, so while he doesn't come off as charismatic, within the game he attracted and brought in a bunch of talented people together. Sure Ezio dd that in Brotherhood, but he was a Rich Italian Nobleman recruiting from the poor, while Connor is a Native American who recruits a bunch of White Europeans to his crew. So Connor's achievement is more impressive.

Also the Homestead...Ezio may have done well for Monteriggioni and built the VIlla and developed it, but Mario and the Auditore had the town before him, and people were living there...Connor built an entire settlement, brought people over, got them tools and oversaw the building and construction of an entire town.

So Advantage Connor...

Helforsite
06-09-2017, 08:55 PM
I have to know what people mean by "Real Assassin"...

The Only Real Assassin in the game is Altair in AC1. He's in an era and setting where the Asasiyun are a historical reality. While the rest are just metaphors. Connor is as real an Assassin as Ezio, Edward, Adewale, the Fryes, Desmond and whatever.

Now if we break down the question into "Whether Connor is a great character", "Whether Connor is a Great Assassin in the story-and-Lore sense", whether "Connor is a Great Player Character" then it becomes interesting.

Now obviously part of these parameters are subjective...but the question of whether Connor is a "Great Assassin in the story-and-Lore sense" is unambiguous. He absolutely is.

As per Pierre Bellec, Connor brought the Assassins "from Nothing to Power". I mean even Ezio didn't start with such a bad hand. Sure his father and brothers died, but Ezio still had Paola, Volpe, Uncle Mario, and Others looking out for him, mentoring him and helping him around. All Connor had was Achilles and that's it...

...Connor personally recruited and built the Brotherhood, so while he doesn't come off as charismatic, within the game he attracted and brought in a bunch of talented people together. Sure Ezio dd that in Brotherhood, but he was a Rich Italian Nobleman recruiting from the poor, while Connor is a Native American who recruits a bunch of White Europeans to his crew. So Connor's achievement is more impressive.

Also the Homestead...Ezio may have done well for Monteriggioni and built the VIlla and developed it, but Mario and the Auditore had the town before him, and people were living there...Connor built an entire settlement, brought people over, got them tools and oversaw the building and construction of an entire town.

So Advantage Connor...

I agree, Connor's achievements were bigger and his devotion to the creed stronger and purer than probably any other Assassin we have played so far, making him the greatest Assassins after Altair and the best character all around in my eyes.

LoyalACFan
06-09-2017, 09:20 PM
I think the whole "Connor isn't a real Assassin" thing comes not from Connor himself, but from the fact that the Brotherhood was handled really strangely in AC3. For one thing, your first recruit (Stephane Chapheau) gets invited to the Brotherhood after going on a straight-up murder spree because he thinks a Redcoat stole his footlocker. So the whole endeavor starts off on a bad foot. Then, to get more recruits, you have to play through some of the absolute worst side missions this series has ever produced (like a half dozen random chores that don't always show up on the map) and afterward, they're still just dressed in street clothes, and you never actually do any sort of induction ceremony or anything. So it often feels like Connor's apprentices are basically just hired help, rather than proper Assassins. AC3 spent way more time focusing on building up the Davenport Homestead, to the point that the Assassins felt like an afterthought in comparison. So I can definitely understand the sentiment; even though Connor is arguably a much purer Assassin than Ezio, it didn't really feel like he was part of a Brotherhood, even after completing all of the recruit missions.

ze_topazio
06-09-2017, 10:46 PM
He's fine.

pacmanate
06-09-2017, 11:01 PM
I think the whole "Connor isn't a real Assassin" thing comes not from Connor himself, but from the fact that the Brotherhood was handled really strangely in AC3. For one thing, your first recruit (Stephane Chapheau) gets invited to the Brotherhood after going on a straight-up murder spree because he thinks a Redcoat stole his footlocker. So the whole endeavor starts off on a bad foot. Then, to get more recruits, you have to play through some of the absolute worst side missions this series has ever produced (like a half dozen random chores that don't always show up on the map) and afterward, they're still just dressed in street clothes, and you never actually do any sort of induction ceremony or anything. So it often feels like Connor's apprentices are basically just hired help, rather than proper Assassins. AC3 spent way more time focusing on building up the Davenport Homestead, to the point that the Assassins felt like an afterthought in comparison. So I can definitely understand the sentiment; even though Connor is arguably a much purer Assassin than Ezio, it didn't really feel like he was part of a Brotherhood, even after completing all of the recruit missions.

Stephane was such a glorious murderous bastard though, despite making no sense

DSD27
06-09-2017, 11:31 PM
Connor is rude, unemotional and BORING.

Sigma 1313
06-10-2017, 12:16 AM
I'm not a fan of Connor by any means, but he is an amazing assassin regardless. He ran across a battlefield, killed his friend and father, followed a target to the Caribbean, literally thousands of miles away, and rebuilt the brotherhood in America while creating a safe and prosperous town. He also very good at parkour and one of the best assassin's to date when it comes to combat.

I think OP is getting Connor confused with Edward. Edward was a pirate who acted throughout most of AC4 purely in self interest of obtaining glory and money. He only "found" the creed when he was older and even then was far from an amazing member of it, despite doing some real good within it, especially his last years in West Indies.

Helforsite
06-10-2017, 07:53 AM
Connor is rude, unemotional and BORING.

Ah, so refreshing to see constructive criticism with good arguments to back it up. /s

DSD27
06-10-2017, 12:56 PM
Ah, so refreshing to see constructive criticism with good arguments to back it up. /s
I said everything that matters. Move on.

joshoolhorst
06-10-2017, 10:29 PM
I said everything that matters. Move on.

He just wanted to know why:)

Megas_Doux
06-10-2017, 11:35 PM
He is!

I dislike Connor's VA as much as I can, for I think he a) has poorly directed, b) just didn't have the skill put a performance up to the situation c) A and b. Plus AC III's general mission design doesn't really help either. Story wise I like Connor and I think of him a pretty good and committed assassin. Underrated in the grand scheme of things.

DSD27
06-11-2017, 03:27 AM
He just wanted to know why:)
Why is he rude, unemotional and boring? Is that a real question?
This reminds me of that joke: "did you know that black is called black because its black?" ;)

Aelvir114
06-11-2017, 03:35 AM
He honestly barely follows the Creed at all and kills for his own selfish desires. I don't know about you, he became unlikable the moment he slammed a Tomahawk into Achilles house, the man who even gave him his Assassin outfit. His own native culture is one thing, but disrespect and uncare for others just makes him look like a jerk. Other than that, Conner is a very skilled assassin, but his attitude is not very favorable as an Assassin.

Helforsite
06-11-2017, 10:12 AM
Why is he rude, unemotional and boring? Is that a real question?
This reminds me of that joke: "did you know that black is called black because its black?" ;)

Yes, it is a real question. This is a forum for discussion and for the sake of discussion, it would be interesting why you feel the way you do about Connor. You could even say, "well, I dont know why, thats just how I feel", but just throwing your opinion out there without any explanation seems out of place here.

Also, black is not called black, because its black, but because at somepoint in history it was determined that black is a fitting translation for what other languages call that particular color. You could go even further back and look at how that name for that color came to be in other languages.
TL;DR: Bad joke, because untrue.

pacmanate
06-11-2017, 12:38 PM
I'm having flash backs from 2012, I still have PTSD from that.

DSD27
06-11-2017, 03:47 PM
Yes, it is a real question. This is a forum for discussion and for the sake of discussion, it would be interesting why you feel the way you do about Connor. You could even say, "well, I dont know why, thats just how I feel", but just throwing your opinion out there without any explanation seems out of place here.

Also, black is not called black, because its black, but because at somepoint in history it was determined that black is a fitting translation for what other languages call that particular color. You could go even further back and look at how that name for that color came to be in other languages.
TL;DR: Bad joke, because untrue.
Damn.. who cares :confused: its black. I said black I could have said "preto" (portuguese) or any other language, that wasn't the point lol
No wonder you like Connor. zzZZZzzz

Megas_Doux
06-11-2017, 03:59 PM
He honestly barely follows the Creed at all and kills for his own selfish desires. I don't know about you, he became unlikable the moment he slammed a Tomahawk into Achilles house, the man who even gave him his Assassin outfit. His own native culture is one thing, but disrespect and uncare for others just makes him look like a jerk. Other than that, Conner is a very skilled assassin, but his attitude is not very favorable as an Assassin.


I disagree here, quite a bit in fact.....

See, for reasons above Connor is not my favorite protagonist but as his motives go, he is more of an assassin in his first game than Ezio ever was in the first of his own. Ezio just want to uncover the plot behind the the murders of his family blindly following orders from strangers whom he DID not have a clue about and that's it. Selfish desires through and through.

It's true, Connor wants to protect "his people" but in the end he kills his childhood friend because he sided with Lee. He also spared Washington despite what he did to his mother and village because it wasn't his mission to put him down. Ezio, well Ezio sacrificed civilians (twice) to get a target in ACR and destroyed an entire port full of innocents to reach a city so that he can pull off a terrorist attack on it.....

Under the scope and preferences aside, Connor understands and applies the Creed (which has been gone since AC I, being honest) better and in a more loyal manner than Ezio.

crusader_prophet
06-11-2017, 05:37 PM
Why is he rude, unemotional and boring? Is that a real question?
This reminds me of that joke: "did you know that black is called black because its black?" ;)
If you are trying to strengthen your previous trolling, comparing an opinion with a fact as an analogy isn't the best start.

DSD27
06-11-2017, 09:06 PM
If you are trying to strengthen your previous trolling, comparing an opinion with a fact as an analogy isn't the best start.
I didn't troll, I just give my opinion and some dude got salty and decided to reply with irony. :D
I said that it reminded me of that joke, I didn't make any comparisons. But if you insist, rude and unemotional are adjectives and personality characteristics, they are self explanatory, there is no reason to explain why, niether would make sense doing it, its pretty objective. Just like black is black, there is no need to explain to someone why it is black.

Locopells
06-11-2017, 09:20 PM
Any-whoo...

Kenny_WeLoveYou
06-12-2017, 01:53 AM
I have to know what people mean by "Real Assassin"...

The Only Real Assassin in the game is Altair in AC1. He's in an era and setting where the Asasiyun are a historical reality. While the rest are just metaphors. Connor is as real an Assassin as Ezio, Edward, Adewale, the Fryes, Desmond and whatever.

Now if we break down the question into "Whether Connor is a great character", "Whether Connor is a Great Assassin in the story-and-Lore sense", whether "Connor is a Great Player Character" then it becomes interesting.

Now obviously part of these parameters are subjective...but the question of whether Connor is a "Great Assassin in the story-and-Lore sense" is unambiguous. He absolutely is.

As per Pierre Bellec, Connor brought the Assassins "from Nothing to Power". I mean even Ezio didn't start with such a bad hand. Sure his father and brothers died, but Ezio still had Paola, Volpe, Uncle Mario, and Others looking out for him, mentoring him and helping him around. All Connor had was Achilles and that's it...

...Connor personally recruited and built the Brotherhood, so while he doesn't come off as charismatic, within the game he attracted and brought in a bunch of talented people together. Sure Ezio dd that in Brotherhood, but he was a Rich Italian Nobleman recruiting from the poor, while Connor is a Native American who recruits a bunch of White Europeans to his crew. So Connor's achievement is more impressive.

Also the Homestead...Ezio may have done well for Monteriggioni and built the VIlla and developed it, but Mario and the Auditore had the town before him, and people were living there...Connor built an entire settlement, brought people over, got them tools and oversaw the building and construction of an entire town.

So Advantage Connor...



For Connor bringing the Assassin's "from Nothing to Power", Brotherhood in Altair's time was always pain in the *** for Altair.
All the hard time it gave to him.

First a former Assassin killed his family, then his Master Al Mualim betrayed the creed and then rest of the creed Exiled him off creed and killed his son and his wife.

Altair had to fight the corrupt even in the age of 93.
Altair clearly perished more than any Assassin in the whole damn series and still made it without anyone's help.

He made it again all by Himself without any allies. He trained them and made the Brotherhood great again.

The people Connor brought in had very little to do with the Assassin's. Ezio recruited Assassin Recruits, Connor recruited people for his settlement (Minus the 6 Recruits he recruited). Which one is more important?


Not only that, but with the Apple in hand, Alta´r changed the way members of his Order lived their lives, writing the details in his fabled Codex for later generations of the Order to read.

Alta´r's vision of the Assassin Order was for them to be spread across the world, living among the people, and he began establishing many Assassins Guilds during his tenure as Mentor. Throughout his travels, Alta´r strengthened his Order, stopping various Templar plots over the years as well as halting the inexorable march of Genghis Khan.


Altair was clearly more skilled and experienced in stealth and combat.

Connor's physical fitness plays it's part in combat but know that Altair and Ezio were way more trained as they fought many opponents alone bare hands and had disarming skills as well.

Conner had very less disarming skill compare to them.

Kenny_WeLoveYou
06-12-2017, 02:04 AM
I agree, Connor's achievements were bigger and his devotion to the creed stronger and purer than probably any other Assassin we have played so far, making him the greatest Assassins after Altair and the best character all around in my eyes.

HOW is Connor's achievements superior to Altair's?

With the Apple in hand, Alta´r changed the way members of his Order lived their lives, writing the details in his fabled Codex for later generations of the Order to read.

Alta´r's vision of the Assassin Order was for them to be spread across the world, living among the people, and he began establishing many Assassins Guilds during his tenure as Mentor.

Throughout his travels, Alta´r strengthened his Order, stopping various Templar plots over the years as well as halting the inexorable march of Genghis Khan.

Having a violent brotherhood is worse than not having at all.

The Abbas men constantly hunted down Altair his whole life.

He basically built Ezio's inventions in AC2 using the Apple of Eden, he invented new Assassination Techniques along with Malik.

What other Assassin, was as revolutionary as Altair?



.

Megas_Doux
06-12-2017, 03:48 AM
What other Assassin, was as revolutionary as Altair?



.



The new guy, may be xD.

pirate1802
06-12-2017, 05:32 AM
Wow, why am I feeling as if I've seen this thread and these comments before?

Locopells
06-12-2017, 08:25 AM
#Old times are here again...#

Helforsite
06-12-2017, 11:40 AM
HOW is Connor's achievements superior to Altair's?

With the Apple in hand, Alta´r changed the way members of his Order lived their lives, writing the details in his fabled Codex for later generations of the Order to read.

Alta´r's vision of the Assassin Order was for them to be spread across the world, living among the people, and he began establishing many Assassins Guilds during his tenure as Mentor.

Throughout his travels, Alta´r strengthened his Order, stopping various Templar plots over the years as well as halting the inexorable march of Genghis Khan.

Having a violent brotherhood is worse than not having at all.

The Abbas men constantly hunted down Altair his whole life.

He basically built Ezio's inventions in AC2 using the Apple of Eden, he invented new Assassination Techniques along with Malik.

What other Assassin, was as revolutionary as Altair?



.

Well, Connor build a Brotherhood from practically nothing, while Altair "just" reformed an existing one. Furthermore, as you said most of his achievements come from the Apple, meaning they were only partially his achievemnts, and that almost fanatical study of the apple lead to him being kind of a bad leader and the death of both his son Sef and his wife.

Kenny_WeLoveYou
06-12-2017, 11:36 PM
Well, Connor build a Brotherhood from practically nothing, while Altair "just" reformed an existing one. Furthermore, as you said most of his achievements come from the Apple, meaning they were only partially his achievemnts, and that almost fanatical study of the apple lead to him being kind of a bad leader and the death of both his son Sef and his wife.


Having a violent brotherhood is worse than not having it at all. The Abbas men constantly hunted Altair down his life. He reformed an entire brotherhood, at the age of 82. THAT shows you how Altair is devoted to the Assassins. The Assassins were his life, from beginning, to the end.

Altair just used science, nothing more.

Sure it wasn't his, but he put it on good use by inventing crazy ****.

However talking about Skill.
I don't know what you call Skills in Assassin's bro, But Era of Altair was Violent as ****.

He fought who knows Hundreds of Wars in his life time and lived his Life 24/7 as an assassin on missions.

I don't think any amount of training can coop up with that kind of War experiences.
Especially if Wars are fought every weekend.

that's what Altair did.
Fought wars almost Daily.

Scenes of Wars and Army in AC 1 and AC revelations in Altair memories are just few example.

The Man who survived countless wars cannot be defeated by any means.

And that's not to say he didn't take a hit in those battles, he was that perfect in assassination.

Altair wasn't a bad leader, he was rather a great leader. Him and his son put down Genghis Khan against sword of Eden, along with countless other deeds he accomplished during his tenor as mentor.

After returning from Cyprus, Alta´r began to put the Apple to use, peering into it often and gaining extensive knowledge of the world.

In 1195, he and Maria married in Limassol with Markos as a guest of honor, out of respect to the Cypriots who offered the island to the Assassins as a base. They then returned to Masyaf, where their first son Darim was born.

Two years later, after a visit to Acre, the couple had a second son, Sef.

Alta´r eventually began to promote the ways of the Assassin Order by traveling to various cities and regions throughout the Old World.

These journeys were largely successful, barring an ill-fated attempt to spread the Creed to Constantinople.

In 1204, Alta´r traveled to the city, but found it besieged by Crusaders following a period of civil unrest.

He returned to Masyaf in bitter disappointment.

Using the Apple "in small doses, and with a focused mind," Alta´r gained knowledge of a form of metal that was lighter and stronger than any yet known, and created an armor set from it.

Seeing the danger that such invulnerability could pose, he erased the formula to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands.

He also used the Apple to help him redesign the Hidden Blade so that it could contain a device capable of launching small projectiles.

Contrary to what his former mentor strove for, Alta´r also allowed the members of the Order to express love for their children.

While Al Mualim believed that love would make them weaker, Alta´r thought that it would render them more willing to make sacrifices for the right cause.

AdultShotaro
06-13-2017, 01:00 PM
I'm having flash backs from 2012, I still have PTSD from that.

I'll be there to help you through those times. Like you I was a survivor