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The_Gorey
05-17-2004, 07:20 PM
this was so funny i thought i'd share it with you luftwaffe pilots here.

this was off of the world war 2 online forums, from someone who had just apparently subscribed to the game as an allied flier. here's his take on the 109 pilots (unedited).

---------------------

Ya know, I'd like to meet an axis pilot with some skill some time. I've seen stuka and 110 pilots who can make those planes do things that shouldn't be possible, however... I have yet to meet a good 109 pilot. Boom-n-zoom is all you seem to be able to do. Not only is it annoying as all hell, but it's the cheapest possible way to get a kill other than clipping.

Yes I can admit, right now I'm pretty pissed about it. I'm sick of all you chicken shat flying in at terminal velocity and going back to the clouds. Why don't you try and actualy get into a real dogfight but wait...you can't because you wouldn't know how to do that would you? Lt. Col. Zdom is a perfect example, he likes to do exactly that.

Fly in at extreme speeds, strafe your target, if you don't kill him which doesn't always happen because most of you BnZ folks can't hit a damn thing if it's not RIGHT in front of your crosshairs, then zoom the hell out of there. If you screw up which you often do you use your speed to fly low and level to the nearest friendly flak.

LOL, worthless little people you are. Try and actualy fight for once, maybe after you die 50 or 60 times you'll get the hang of it. I've known VERY FEW people in a 109 to actualy dogfight and to those who do, I salute you. Actualy, I haven't been killed by a 109 in an actual dogfight in a long time because of the fact that A: Most of you are to scared and chicken shat to get engaged in one. B: The ones that were stupid enough to do it easily got flamed because they were probably noobs.

So why is it you guys constantly do this? Simply because you can? Because you have no real skill and can't fly worth a damn? (Which I find most probable). Or is it because you're simply too frightened to engage in an real dogfight? Probably all of the above... Try to dogfight some time, maybe you'll actualy enjoy it, maybe you'll find out what kind of skills a REAL pilot has in this game.
---------------------------------------

just a note here, the 109 FM in ww2ol is worse than IL2's in energy retention.

----------------------------------------------
http://www.jg52.com/sigs/gutted.jpg (http://www.jg52.com)



My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

The_Gorey
05-17-2004, 07:20 PM
this was so funny i thought i'd share it with you luftwaffe pilots here.

this was off of the world war 2 online forums, from someone who had just apparently subscribed to the game as an allied flier. here's his take on the 109 pilots (unedited).

---------------------

Ya know, I'd like to meet an axis pilot with some skill some time. I've seen stuka and 110 pilots who can make those planes do things that shouldn't be possible, however... I have yet to meet a good 109 pilot. Boom-n-zoom is all you seem to be able to do. Not only is it annoying as all hell, but it's the cheapest possible way to get a kill other than clipping.

Yes I can admit, right now I'm pretty pissed about it. I'm sick of all you chicken shat flying in at terminal velocity and going back to the clouds. Why don't you try and actualy get into a real dogfight but wait...you can't because you wouldn't know how to do that would you? Lt. Col. Zdom is a perfect example, he likes to do exactly that.

Fly in at extreme speeds, strafe your target, if you don't kill him which doesn't always happen because most of you BnZ folks can't hit a damn thing if it's not RIGHT in front of your crosshairs, then zoom the hell out of there. If you screw up which you often do you use your speed to fly low and level to the nearest friendly flak.

LOL, worthless little people you are. Try and actualy fight for once, maybe after you die 50 or 60 times you'll get the hang of it. I've known VERY FEW people in a 109 to actualy dogfight and to those who do, I salute you. Actualy, I haven't been killed by a 109 in an actual dogfight in a long time because of the fact that A: Most of you are to scared and chicken shat to get engaged in one. B: The ones that were stupid enough to do it easily got flamed because they were probably noobs.

So why is it you guys constantly do this? Simply because you can? Because you have no real skill and can't fly worth a damn? (Which I find most probable). Or is it because you're simply too frightened to engage in an real dogfight? Probably all of the above... Try to dogfight some time, maybe you'll actualy enjoy it, maybe you'll find out what kind of skills a REAL pilot has in this game.
---------------------------------------

just a note here, the 109 FM in ww2ol is worse than IL2's in energy retention.

----------------------------------------------
http://www.jg52.com/sigs/gutted.jpg (http://www.jg52.com)



My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

VW-IceFire
05-17-2004, 07:26 PM
I'm sure the Japanese were saying this when the AVG, on Chennaults orders, engaged in strict boom and zoom proceedure diving through Japanese formations shooting at what they could and getting the hell out of town.

Some things never change...but this guy certainly hasn't read the history books at all. Wow will he be surprised when he does http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

LEXX_Luthor
05-17-2004, 07:34 PM
I read the Chinese executed pilots as cowards who BnZ the Japanese. Don't laugh the same article wrote the Brits merely court martialed pilots who BnZ the Japanese....until AVG results proved their worth.

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

ElfunkoI
05-17-2004, 07:39 PM
Sounds like one of my old trolls. God I loved that. WWIIOL forums were just pure gold for trolling. I remember one time I switched sides on my troll post and whined about how uber spits were and how CRS nerfed the 109, hehe, so many people went with it (I was only an allied pilot, I fly the underdog).

So when they gonna get a real FM? I want to play it when it does...

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

AcesHigh_AVG
05-17-2004, 08:23 PM
LOL its funny but that same thread could have been posted here, and has in various forms many times! The fact is, it is much harder to BandZ than to turn fight! You really have to be skilled in energy retention to keep alive when diving on a group of enemy fighters.

PBNA-Boosher
05-17-2004, 08:38 PM
I agree! HAHA!

Wait till I shoot down this a$$ in a P-40 while he's flying an A6M Zero! Imagine that rant! Oooh! I can hear it already! lol! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Aztek_Eagle
05-17-2004, 09:42 PM
i think he needs profesional help

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/AztekEaglesig.JPG

Eagle_361st
05-17-2004, 10:07 PM
If he is serious he is Fnebtard, but I can't believe there are people that ignorant today. Ok really I can, he is good for a laugh at least. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

ElfunkoI
05-17-2004, 10:10 PM
Oh god, the trolling potential here is great too. Theres limitless possibilities, and just to get the fire going you can have a short stint of "lo and behold the russian birds and superior and we also have a russian company making the game". That sets some people off. After that theres tons of "evidence" and "facts" to prove whatever point you may have. Funniest thing though, and what I was talking about, a few weeks after a good allied troll calling the company axis biased, go ahead and switch everything to say the company is allied biased and see how many people actually catch on and call you a hypocrit (and troll), I garantee the number is few.

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

JG52Schatten
05-17-2004, 10:16 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Hmmm I wonder if he's 9 yrs.old? I agree, he's in for a rude awakening when he reads the history books. And even more so when he discovers that B-N-Z is actually harder than it looks. That or he's just ticked-off 'cause he can't B-N-Z. That remark about B-N-Z'ers not being able to hit anything.... I wonder how much he can hit in 2 seconds or less @ 500+ km/hr?

Just makes you want to go http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif at him. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

But we probably shouldn't laugh too much at his expense... we all have probably said things nearly as ridiculous at one time or another if we got as frustrated with something as much as it sounds like he has.

darkhorizon11
05-17-2004, 10:26 PM
OMG I like totally agree lol. I mean its sooo like totally unfair BnZ is like so frickin cheap n ur not kewl fer doin it. its so dummm lol

Just kidding.

I flied mostly Allied and though at times its frustrating how can you complain?! A good pilot exploits the weaknesses of his opponent while only using strong points of his own aircraft. As a pilot you can fly any way you want. I might add there are plenty of ways to counter BnZ as well. I'm sure in WWII the Allies requested the Germans stopped doing this so the gunners on the bombers would have a better chance.

Man some people just can't hack it!

WUAF_Badsight
05-17-2004, 10:33 PM
oh wow . . . .

that first post must have taken a lot of courage to submit

i mean knowing how much of a dumb@ss he was going to make himself sound like he STILL clicked on enter http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Istreliteli
05-17-2004, 10:43 PM
lexx were you kidding about the chinese/british penalization for not dogfighting?
argh....its hard BnZ the blue guys, i try in a MiG and its really hard to pull off, but fun.

Ya sizhu i smotru chuzhoya neba iz chuzhoya okna, i ne vidyem ne odnoi znakom iz zvezdiy,ya hodil po vsyem dorogo iz tuda i suda, a vernusya i ne smog, razgredyet sledi, no isli yest karmane pachka sigaret nachat vsye ne tak uzh plocha na syevodnachniy dyen-Victor Tsoi, Kino (Gruppa Krovi)

Kannaksen_hanu
05-17-2004, 11:42 PM
Sounds awfully lot like Gibbage. (few months ago in his BnZ-hate thread)

Dolemite-
05-17-2004, 11:43 PM
Who would buy WW2 online just to "dogfight"?
These are people who dont know anything about real aircraft and their the same people who buy BF1942 just to fly the P-51.

When will they learn.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

___________________________________________
Flying on HL as -Dolemite-
http://www.talonse.com/supergreg.swf &lt;----- ya wont regret it

Willthisnamedo
05-18-2004, 12:40 AM
He's absolutely right though. Historically, the LW planes were designed for B&Z because Goering knew that Luftwaffe pilots, trained in gliders because of the Versailles conditions on Germany, would be unable to turn fight with the highly skilled British pilots.

Accordingly he had the original elliptical wing 109 redesigned with a NACA high loading airfoil (the plans were stolen by Klaus Fuchs, the German master spy on the Manhattan project), optimised for stability at high speed.

This is also why the Germans went for the centre line guns: despite the weight, complexity and slower rate of fire, at least his 'noob' pilots didn't have to think about convergence. An explosive cannon shell might also help them achieve a kill without actually hitting the target properly.

The first Luftwaffe pilot to get involved in a T&B fight was Erich von Shadenfreude, in Spain. This only reinforced the high command's view, as he was trying to turn with Ratas... If he had survived, Goering intended to have him shot as an example.

So, historically, Z&B is actually the scared noob's tactic... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ankanor
05-18-2004, 12:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willthisnamedo:
He's absolutely right though. Historically, the LW planes were designed for B&Z because Goering knew that Luftwaffe pilots, trained in gliders because of the Versailles conditions on Germany, would be unable to turn fight with the highly skilled British pilots.

Accordingly he had the original elliptical wing 109 redesigned with a NACA high loading airfoil (the plans were stolen by Klaus Fuchs, the German master spy on the Manhattan project), optimised for stability at high speed.

This is also why the Germans went for the centre line guns: despite the weight, complexity and slower rate of fire, at least his 'noob' pilots didn't have to think about convergence. An explosive cannon shell might also help them achieve a kill without actually hitting the target properly.

The first Luftwaffe pilot to get involved in a T&B fight was Erich von Shadenfreude, in Spain. This only reinforced the high command's view, as he was trying to turn with Ratas... If he had survived, Goering intended to have him shot as an example.

So, historically, Z&B is actually the scared noob's tactic... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, you are the killer!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Erich von Schadenfreude LOL

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53

El Turo
05-18-2004, 01:36 AM
OMFG.. Gutted and Elfunko.. teh noobage!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

As for the FM in WWIIOL.. I will defer to their physics/coding guro, RickB who said this about fixing the original code left behind by the first guy to tackle it:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm not going anywhere near the current physics code now or ever again. It's a big steaming pile and trying to change anything would probably do more harm than good<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 109 in WWIIOL is a complete joke of an aircraft.. really quite sad to see that place go downhill so quickly. My subscription is paid through July, but we'll see how long that holds out without any improvement to either the mechanics of the game or the physics/FM itself.

As it is.. I'm burnt on the whole thing something fierce right now. Can't even bring myself to log in.

=/

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

RdTimeTheCharm
05-18-2004, 02:34 AM
Well if youre flying worse or equal turnfighter than i am, im sure to engage you on that area.

Like lets see...
Mig vs. Me109F in 500m - 3000 m
P38 vs. Me109G2 low
P51 vs. Me109G2 low

Actually complaining about people having advantage over you is really silly. Why would they give away bnz ?? Why would they give away freedom of dictating the engagement ?? Energy advantage ?

Please explain

WTE_Ibis
05-18-2004, 02:52 AM
Ankanor,were you talking to me in that poem?
If so where can we meet sweetie? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Ibissix-schmile.JPG
www.uploadit.org/Ibissix/MOSSIE.jpg

Cajun76
05-18-2004, 03:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AcesHigh_AVG:
LOL its funny but that same thread could have been posted here, and has in various forms many times! The fact is, it is much harder to BandZ than to turn fight! You really have to be skilled in energy retention to keep alive when diving on a group of enemy fighters.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A proper "TnB" takes as much skill as a "BnZ". "BnZ" has nothing to do with an altitude advantage, insomuch as it gives a speed/energy advantage. The guy with the stick in his gut in a tight turning plane is using about the same amount of skill as someone who dives with a 5000m difference in altitude in an already faster plane. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

A turn fight, executed properly, uses small differences in E to gain an advantage, while a typical "BnZ" already had a wide E advantage, making the attackers job easier. Niether "TnB" nor "BnZ" is bad or good, and both styles have their places. To make a blanket statement that one is superior to the other will leave your abilities one-sided, especially if your opponent has an E advantage on you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

While I agree the 'perturbed' individuals rant is a bit off, anybody can get a K4 and climb above the competion, just as anyone can jump in a Gladiator and fly circles around manhole covers. It's when you start flying to gain E, while bleeding your opponents E, that your using some honest skill, and not relying on the plane for everything. In this way, a P-47 can outturn a I-153, and a I-153 can "BnZ" a P-47. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Willthisnamedo
05-18-2004, 04:14 AM
It's worth noting that B&Z will also allow effective use of elevator trim, if rigged as a slider: this is why the Luftwaffe used to call the Me109 the 'BubiSchmitt', or 'boy's toy', because it removed the need for any experience to trim the aircraft...

ElfunkoI
05-18-2004, 07:37 AM
It's really going down? Thats a shame, it was an excellent concept and the ground war was great fun. But the air just sucked. I remember after I started playing IL2 a long time ago I say many lackings in the WWIIOL FM, and I said it on the hangar, but all I ever got as a reply was "WWIIOL has the best most advanced FM ever!" and a bunch of other fanboi ****. Only a few could actually see things as they were. Hell, the FM's changed dramatically from the 1.4 yank to your hearts content to the 1.8 actual E loss model. But there was just so much wrong and wacky. Just look at the stalls and complete lack of spins. "Oh, theres no spins cause the aircraft pulls itself out cause it was so stable!" they fanboi says...

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

naderpin
05-18-2004, 07:38 AM
This post is nothing but trolling. The original poster is talking about a completely different game, it has nothing to do with IL2. The flight models and lag in WWII Online are terrible. That game is nothing but full of whiners on both sides. The flight models change almost montly due to constant whineing from both sides. The developers have openly admitted to buggy flight modeling. If the original post was IL2 related, well then I guess you have a point. Otherwise keep it on the kiddie forums over at the world war II online website. I don't understand the point in airing the dirty laundry from another game over here. For the life of me, I can't understand how come people are so biased to one side or the other. Why can't people just enjoy playing all the different types of aircraft in this wonderful game? Nice troll post.

naderpin

Locust_
05-18-2004, 08:33 AM
lmao

Send him over here Ill show him a trick or 2

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/p38loco1sig.jpg

JG52Schatten
05-18-2004, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willthisnamedo:
He's absolutely right though. Historically, the LW planes were designed for B&Z because Goering knew that Luftwaffe pilots, trained in gliders because of the Versailles conditions on Germany, would be unable to turn fight with the highly skilled British pilots.

Accordingly he had the original elliptical wing 109 redesigned with a NACA high loading airfoil (the plans were stolen by Klaus Fuchs, the German master spy on the Manhattan project), optimised for stability at high speed.

This is also why the Germans went for the centre line guns: despite the weight, complexity and slower rate of fire, at least his 'noob' pilots didn't have to think about convergence. An explosive cannon shell might also help them achieve a kill without actually hitting the target properly.

The first Luftwaffe pilot to get involved in a T&B fight was Erich von Shadenfreude, in Spain. This only reinforced the high command's view, as he was trying to turn with Ratas... If he had survived, Goering intended to have him shot as an example.

So, historically, Z&B is actually the scared noob's tactic... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG! I think Willthisnamedo is being sarcastic! If so, I LOVE IT! Beautiful, beautiful sarcasm. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

If not, oh man, is that off.

@naderpin
I think the frustrated guy was fussing about the BNZ tactic & not about the FMs of any game, etc. That's why it was being discussed here. I think discussing & using tactics is valid IN ANY game.

Ankanor
05-18-2004, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kneebonejockey:
Ankanor,were you talking to me in that poem?
If so where can we meet sweetie? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Ibissix-schmile.JPG
www.uploadit.org/Ibissix/MOSSIE.jpg (http://www.uploadit.org/Ibissix/MOSSIE.jpg) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no, honey http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif, its dedicated to my sweetheart. And thats not you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif
btw, nice butt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-18-2004, 11:07 AM
The guy that Gutted quoted probably would have gotten mad at the US revolutionaries because they weren't fighting fair either.

Discuss tactics?...yes, of course, but this was awfully funny.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

tazzers01
05-18-2004, 12:29 PM
When did the Brits ever court marshal somebody for using BnZ tactics? Just what are you blokes banging on about? Sheesh. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

El Turo
05-18-2004, 12:41 PM
Hey Naderpin.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

Franzen
05-18-2004, 12:52 PM
Sheeesh! What B.S.! I can't believe people whining about BnZ being fair or not. Maybe that's why Germany lost. Churchill(in a whiny voice) called up Hitler and said "Hey you big brute, stoooooop it".

This is one of the stupidest things I've read and it's been whined about so many times. Amazing.

Fritz Franzen

El Turo
05-18-2004, 01:00 PM
Consider for a moment that even the moronic and stupid have an important role in this world.. for without their lows, there would be no appreciation for intelligence, innovation or inspired works.. we'd all be exactly the same for lack of anything to compare ourselves to.

So, next time a raging moronic fuxxtard goes off, thank him for his contribution to society and your ability to appreciate intelligent, contemplative thought elsewhere in the world.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

Franzen
05-18-2004, 01:02 PM
I agree with you Butcher. Now can we BnZ him into the history books? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

Fritz Franzen

naderpin
05-18-2004, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H_Butcher:
Hey Naderpin.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S! TURO

naderpin

Slammin_
05-18-2004, 08:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H_Butcher:
Consider for a moment that even the moronic and stupid have an important role in this world.. for without their lows, there would be no appreciation for intelligence, innovation or inspired works.. we'd all be exactly the same for lack of anything to compare ourselves to.

So, next time a raging moronic fuxxtard goes off, thank him for his contribution to society and your ability to appreciate intelligent, contemplative thought elsewhere in the world.

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That was the most refreshing thing I've read all day! Good job!

Nazinette
05-18-2004, 11:25 PM
Nice Videos Gutted, you fly very well.

AirBot
05-19-2004, 12:22 AM
Not the brightest crayon in the box, now are we? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG52Schatten:
OMG! I think Willthisnamedo is being sarcastic! If so, I LOVE IT! Beautiful, beautiful sarcasm. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

If not, oh man, is that off.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Art-J
05-19-2004, 06:33 AM
I don't know about court-martial for avoiding BnZ, but I've read an article about RAAF 75th Sqn defending Port Moresby during summer of '42. There was a moment where John Jackson, squadrons CO, received a very harsh document from his superiors (who "always know better") where they claimed their resentment after hearing about new BnZ tactics used by Kittyhawks pilots. Using such a "cowardly" tactics was forbidden, they gave him direct order to dogfight Jap fighters, like a serious Commonwealth soldier should do. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
What do do in such a situation, obey, reject? He didn't have to deliberate this question for long since he was KIA soon after. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Military bureaucracy and incompetency of some high ranking officers is more effective in slowing down war effort than enemy's action. (Remember admiral Christie's Mk VI magnetic detonator for Mk XIV torpedoes and all trouble caused by this "wonder" invention? I'm sure we can find many examples similar to these)

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Haribo-Zeke_small_3_txt.jpg

Heavy_Weather
05-19-2004, 09:22 AM
LMAO........so basically just let this guy get on your six and shoot you down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

lame http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

"To fly a combat mission is not a trip under the moon. Every attack, every bombing is a dance with death."
- Serafima Amsova-Taranenko: Noggle, Ann (1994): A Dance with Death.

KarayaEine
05-19-2004, 10:51 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Johann

Horrido!
"We need more ammo!"
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid106/p5f881fba318d7f0779ac1d9df0ace079/f96e6284.jpg

"Achtung Kommandant, sind Sie Fl¤che auf Feuer"

JG52_wunsch
05-19-2004, 12:00 PM
lol,thats pretty funny.he might as well ve said
i know nothing(with spanish accent)lol,cheers.

After it was refeuled i climbed in.With many manipulations the mechcanics started the turbines.I followed their actions with the greatest of interest.The first one started quite easily.the second caught fire.In no time the whole engine was on fire.Luckily as a fighter pilot i was used to getting quickly out of the cockpit.The fire was quickly put out.The second plane caused no trouble - Adolf Galland (first time in a ME262)

JG52Schatten
05-20-2004, 11:06 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AirBot:
Not the brightest crayon in the box, now are we? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif[QUOTE]

Well Sir, maybe not. But I assure you, there are MANY MORE crayons in the box that are alot darker than I. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And I think that if you look around here, you'll see that you're outnumbered if you agree with the gentleman whose rant about BNZ started this topic.

If BNZ is the "scared noob's" tactic, I would just like to see "who the more scared pilot was" in each of the encounters that led up to Hartmann's, Barkhorn's, & Rall's 928 collective victories. I think that alone proves my point.

If you still believe TNB is the ultimate & ONLY tactic to ever use, I recommend you should go fly exclusively against the AFJ or 13sq for a few months. I think after that, you may see things a little differently.

As I stated earlier. Both TNB & BNZ have their advantages & weaknesses. Both are good if used properly. However, in certain situations, one tactic will lend itself to being more useful than the other. The determining factor is just that.... the situation.

JG52 The Butcherbirds (http://www.geocities.com/jg52thebutcherbirds/)

JG52Schatten
05-20-2004, 11:15 AM
Oh & btw, I think that after flying over a few hundred combat sorties (in real life), that a pilot probably breaks out of the "NEWB" bracket. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG52 The Butcherbirds (http://www.geocities.com/jg52thebutcherbirds/)

Sarcastr0
05-20-2004, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Fly in at extreme speeds, strafe your target, if you don't kill him which doesn't always happen because most of you BnZ folks can't hit a damn thing if it's not RIGHT in front of your crosshairs, then zoom the hell out of there. If you screw up which you often do you use your speed to fly low and level to the nearest friendly flak.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, great description of smart B&Z tactics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But the best part is:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Actualy, I haven't been killed by a 109 in an actual dogfight in a long time because of the fact that A: Most of you are to scared and chicken shat to get engaged in one. B: The ones that were stupid enough to do it easily got flamed because they were probably noobs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Point B: he ADMITS that those trying to dogfight in 109's are probably noobs, and are stupid! Doesn't that contradict his whole point?

Fun.

icrash
05-20-2004, 10:04 PM
I guess it doesn't matter in a sim what you do, you can always start over. I thought most pilots would do whatever it took to come home in one piece. Flying "real" combat, winner walks and second place is a body bag (assuming somebody finds whatever is left). Fight to the strengths of your plane & exploit the weakness of your opponent's plane.

VFA-195 Snacky
05-20-2004, 11:08 PM
What makes you think he will ever read any history. Most of the history books I've read don't have pop up cartoons. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I'm sure the Japanese were saying this when the AVG, on Chennaults orders, engaged in strict boom and zoom proceedure diving through Japanese formations shooting at what they could and getting the hell out of town.

Some things never change...but this guy certainly hasn't read the history books at all. Wow will he be surprised when he does http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/b_a_presidential_first.jpg
"Navy1, Call the Ball- Roger Ball."


**Opinions expressed are not those of UbiSoft or Eagle Dynamics**