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View Full Version : Has anyone considered maybe not spam attacking conq when health is going up?



CandleInTheDark
06-04-2017, 04:54 PM
Pretty sure I haven't been on a team doing this but I recently started levelling up the conqueror because while my love is always going to be with the assassins, sometimes I am on all assassin teams that can go ahead and take the zones early on but can't keep them half a minute. I will confess I go with probably one of the most annoying conq builds for opponents, bodycount, juggernaught, health on block and regenerate. Basically when I manage to get feats up I am a self repairing tank whose total hp pool winds up far above my starting total.

This has happened to me a few times but the last one I was involved in was gamebreaking for the enemy team. It had been a pretty tight game can't remember the name of the map but it was the one with pits on either side of one zone and a platform for the other zone the other end of a bridge, I was on the one without instadeath. So my team go into breaking and I see one person coming towards me then two more from the other side. First thing I do is pop juggernaught, now I have damage resistance. I kept locked on the slowest with the two quicker ones on either side of me. So I am stood there, taking a hit and immediately healing it through blocking another two, bearing in mind I have only grey gear, my revenge is popping every five seconds and there are three of them not chasing my teammates down or ensuring that they weren't doing anything troublesome like, oh, I don't know, turning the other two zones our colour, taking us out of breaking and putting them into it. Eventually I got taken down with a feat, but by that time the game, from a position they had the upper hand, was pretty much lost.

So um, yeah, I guess the point of this whole spiel is if you see a conqueror's health going up, maybe support your teammate with disablers and guardbreaks rather than help repair the tank.

Antonioj26
06-04-2017, 04:58 PM
Pretty sure I haven't been on a team doing this but I recently started levelling up the conqueror because while my love is always going to be with the assassins, sometimes I am on all assassin teams that can go ahead and take the zones early on but can't keep them half a minute. I will confess I go with probably one of the most annoying conq builds for opponents, bodycount, juggernaught, health on block and regenerate. Basically when I manage to get feats up I am a self repairing tank whose total hp pool winds up far above my starting total.

This has happened to me a few times but the last one I was involved in was gamebreaking for the enemy team. It had been a pretty tight game can't remember the name of the map but it was the one with pits on either side of one zone and a platform for the other zone the other end of a bridge, I was on the one without instadeath. So my team go into breaking and I see one person coming towards me then two more from the other side. First thing I do is pop juggernaught, now I have damage resistance. I kept locked on the slowest with the two quicker ones on either side of me. So I am stood there, taking a hit and immediately healing it through blocking another two, bearing in mind I have only grey gear, my revenge is popping every five seconds and there are three of them not chasing my teammates down or ensuring that they weren't doing anything troiblesome like, oh, I don't know, turning the other two zones our colour, taking us out of breaking and putting them into it. Eventually I got taken down with a feat, but by that time the game, from a position they had the upper hand, was pretty much lost.

So um, yeah, I guess the point of this whole spiel is if you see a conqueror's health going up, maybe support your teammate with disablers and guardbreaks rather than help repair the tank.

It's amazing how many people just keep mindlessly swinging at you while you get back up to full health. I've run out clocks on elimination from doing that and it's amazing for holding points in dominion. It's a little more difficult now with cent/shin but if there's only one of them in the group you just have to focus on them while blocking, dodging, or countergb the others.

S0Mi_xD
06-04-2017, 06:36 PM
Yeah :D
It is funny how simple the mindset of many players are, and those ppl wonder afterwards why a class is "op" or they lose.

Most people do not know how to approarch team play modes, even if they are not premade or not communicating

ONYX_x5
06-04-2017, 11:12 PM
Everybody complained about the old revenge. I bet with these gank squads now they wish they had it back.
That being said the conqueror is a perfect example of knowing your roll. The heavy has to step up and get him off his feet. The heavies roll is to control the revenge players. Well was. Do not blindly gank a con late in the match.
Well if your are a cent or shin the rules do not apply to you. So just do your lame, broken and spamming thing.

Antonioj26
06-04-2017, 11:20 PM
Everybody complained about the old revenge. I bet with these gank squads now they wish they had it back.
That being said the conqueror is a perfect example of knowing your roll. The heavy has to step up and get him off his feet. The heavies roll is to control the revenge players. Well was. Do not blindly gank a con late in the match.
Well if your are a cent or shin the rules do not apply to you. So just do your lame, broken and spamming thing.

Actually that sounds terrible, the only thing that I can think of that is worse than gank squads of centurions or old revenge is giving a solo centurion old revenge. His knockdowns are bad enough, we don't need to give him the ability kill you in one combo (even though he damn near can). Going back to preseason 2 and post revenge nerf would be perfect.

Gray360UK
06-04-2017, 11:23 PM
Everybody complained about the old revenge. I bet with these gank squads now they wish they had it back.

Kind of, and then again, no.

The removal of old Revenge was needed, because it went too far the other way. Personally I only ever wanted them to nerf it by adding a cooldown to it, so you had your one chance to escape or kill everyone in the room and if you hadn't taken advantage of that, game over man, game over. I wouldn't wish for old Revenge back, but it's removal has revealed the problem that it was masking. Old Revenge is not the solution, but it's absence sure has shown us exactly how broken 4 vs 4 combat can be.

A game should never put in you a Godmode or die situation, there should be other ways to survive / escape. Revenge should have other benefits, like the CC immunity i have seen suggested elsewhere.

Having said all that, I just survived a 3 man gank squad thanks to Revenge, killing one Centurion and escaping the other two, so it's not all bad.

CandleInTheDark
06-04-2017, 11:49 PM
As a peacekeeper I have won 1v3 by blocking, waiting for revenge,popping it just as I could get two down, finished them, finished the last 1v1, this was with minimum gain and duration under the old stats. While that is an awesome feeling, I have come to believe it is better, especially if you are in one of their zones and stopping scoring or in the situation I was in, to, if there are three of them that insist on killing you together, make them work as long as you can for it whether constantly dodging as the peacekeeper or block and healing as the conqueror, either one of them will disengage giving you a better chance or they will be there as long as you live and there is only one other to contend with the rest of your team. It did nothing for my personal stats but I swung games by blocking a zone and tying up most of them for just long enough.

I personally wouldn't want old revenge back, whether I was the peacekeeper that benefited most from it or the conq fending off a group, as I said in my original post, even in grey gear with I think it was 0% revenge gain, it was popping every five seconds and did me well enough until I was killed with a feat.

I'll also point out that I was not complaining about being 1vx in this thread, I was calling out how foolish it was to constantly heal the conqueror by attacking into his block and I managed quite well enough with how it is.

UbiNoty
06-05-2017, 12:13 AM
http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m434/cheeseywoo/Imhelping.png

CandleInTheDark
06-05-2017, 12:33 AM
http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m434/cheeseywoo/Imhelping.png

Gah darn magikarp, I remember many days when I was younger of having to heal my starter over and over because my opponent got first hit in so I could start with that useless thing and level it up, by the third game I had I realised there would sooner or later be an exp share coming but by then I was over gyarados lol. And there was always a fisherman with six of the darn things that stole two minutes of your life for minimal xp >.> I started to dread talking to fishermen lol.

ONYX_x5
06-05-2017, 03:40 AM
The old revenge was really handled easily by a smart team. Gank responsibly. Playing as a con you figured out pretty quick the other team was responsible for getting it or not getting it.
If one person engaged the others did not but stayed close. When revenge popped all in. If we had a heavy like a Con, Lawbringer or Fatgoki then they kept them on their back or on their shoulder.
The old revenge I liked, it should have been just turned off in Duel and Brawl. In 4v4 everybody should only got 3 or 4 activations. Each one becoming shorter everytime its popped. That also helps with using it. It could easily be wasted .
But ya, its a wasted point. Until they fix the season 2 heroes I could not even comprehend a Cent with old revenge.

Antonioj26
06-05-2017, 03:45 AM
The old revenge was really handled easily by a smart team. Gank responsibly. Playing as a con you figured out pretty quick the other team was responsible for getting it or not getting it.
If one person engaged the others did not but stayed close. When revenge popped all in. If we had a heavy like a Con, Lawbringer or Fatgoki then they kept them on their back or on their shoulder.
The old revenge I liked, it should have been just turned off in Duel and Brawl. In 4v4 everybody should only got 3 or 4 activations. Each one becoming shorter everytime its popped. That also helps with using it. It could easily be wasted .
But ya, its a wasted point. Until they fix the season 2 heroes I could not even comprehend a Cent with old revenge.

This trash player is the exact reason why it was nerfed. Someone this terrible shouldn't be rewarded with super human strength for playing bad. He was no better than his opponents yet completely wiped them because of this broken mechanic. He's garbage so imagine what someone with even a modicum of skill could do with that power. I'll take S2 over old revenge anyday, but of course the obvious and best period was before S2 and after revenge nerf.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnFOjYJKx4

AKDagriZ
06-05-2017, 04:37 AM
Everybody complained about the old revenge. I bet with these gank squads now they wish they had it back.
That being said the conqueror is a perfect example of knowing your roll. The heavy has to step up and get him off his feet. The heavies roll is to control the revenge players. Well was. Do not blindly gank a con late in the match.
Well if your are a cent or shin the rules do not apply to you. So just do your lame, broken and spamming thing.

the old revenge ! remember when you could stand a 3V1 !Not anymore they wanted a melee figthing game.

that a nice concept till you won't last more then 10 sec after respawn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVcXbzoTS4o&t=44s

M.Sword.Y.Face
06-05-2017, 05:25 AM
people do stupid **** all the time. that is why they keep yelling Centurion is overpower in team fight. Almost every hero has some sort of disabling moves but people rarely use it team fight, to the extent that noobs just forget how hard it is supposed to be to win when outnumbered. Centurion's disabling comes in very handy and easy and people won't forget how to use it, all of sudden, the community of noobs outbreaks.

Antonioj26
06-05-2017, 05:44 AM
people do stupid **** all the time. that is why they keep yelling Centurion is overpower in team fight. Almost every hero has some sort of disabling moves but people rarely use it team fight, to the extent that noobs just forget how hard it is supposed to be to win when outnumbered. Centurion's disabling comes in very handy and easy and people won't forget how to use it, all of sudden, the community of noobs outbreaks.

Hmm interesting, almost every hero huh? Well let's look into that.

Warden has SB
Raider has stampede charge a slow telegraphed attack that requires you to be sprinting
Kensei has nothing
Conq has shield bash and shield tackle
Warlord has headbutt and his shield charge
Shugo has his demons embrace which is slow, telegraphed, and has an hp penalty if missed
Pk has nothing
Zerk has nothing
Orochi has nothing
Lb has long arm which is slow, telegraphed, bad tracking, and has crap range
Valk has shield tackle which requires you to be fully charged for a knockdown and can be difficult to land when teammates get in the way or the fight keeps moving further away from you. She has sweep that also knocks down teammates, requires two attacks to land first, slow and highly punishable if missed.
Nobushi has a slow, telegraphed kick, with no tracking, and crap range.

Now let's look at cents. Kick 600ms has long range and can be activated at any time. A jab that can be fully charged for a guaranteed knockdown or just let it go for a quick disable. The jab can be done when followed by a heavy whether it's blocked or not. A fully charged unblockable heavy which has a guaranteed fully charged jab that knocks down, and the total time you are unable to control your character is around 6 seconds.

So that's 4 that have zero, 5 that are absolute crap compared to centurions, and three that are okay compared to centurions. Same thing though, right?

Didn't mention shove or oni charge because both are pretty crap in terms of disabling, especially oni.

AKDagriZ
06-05-2017, 06:40 AM
they killed the game

we had enough to deal with .and they add a hero whos just as bad as anybody despite in this game , he is the archetyp of what every player dislike about this game

I've been playing since closed beta . i am a total of rep 31 . my main is 27.I played many hours of this game.I took a break .. a good 3 week break , im back at this game and what i see :

Dominion : high activity
Duel : high activity
skirmish : low actvity
brawl_low activity
Elimination low activity

its been like that for the past 7 days that ive been back on this game.When you fight a centurion you undertand why the actual status of player is that way.And mostly because devs play this game since 5 years now in tournament a 4pm and they totally forgot about the rest of the world. the rest of the world is all the user who actually had to pay for this game instead of being paid to make it.

3 days of beta testing ....

ONYX_x5
06-05-2017, 07:13 PM
They got their financial score on the opening sale. If they cared somebody would come forward announcing a public game plan and address the paying costumers concerns.
With new heroes coming out for sale at the beginning of new seasons they can still score revenue. Crank up the new heroes, make them dominate over all the old content to get players to buy these new badasses. Self created arms race.
Games have turned into maximizing profits. Their main interest is in the money not spent yet, not money already collected.
Conyousoft has been doing this over and over. I'm sure their marketing studies have showed them the profitable life span of a video game which they use to their advantage.
Hopefully they think we are just a of bunch of compulsive teenagers that panhandle their parents out of money in order to buy whatever whenever. That probably is their largest demographic, but hopefully there is enough adult gamers to get their attention on their next release.

CandleInTheDark
06-05-2017, 07:40 PM
They got their financial score on the opening sale. If they cared somebody would come forward announcing a public game plan and address the paying costumers concerns.


Yeah it would be great if they had, I don't know, a stream where they go over news of the week, stuff that is happening in the coming week like, say, patch notes and maybe a q&a section just to show people that they are listening and give some long and short term answers.

Oh what is that? They do? Oh, right, the Warrior's Den, every thursday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0NhFKeZdsU

How about those of us who can't watch a stream every week? It would be a neat idea if they put upcoming patch notes on the announcements board of their forum and maybe had a weekly newsletter with the important stuff just so I can see it at a glance.

Except they do. https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/news-community/152-292045-16/this-week-in-for-honor-6012017 http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1679975-Patch-notes-(v1-08) I don't know the forum though, how about they put the patch notes on their website? https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/news-community/152-291912-16/patch-notes-for-honor-v108

How about letting us know what bugs they are aware about and working on? That would be neat. http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1660564-Current-Known-Issues-List-*UPDATED*-May-24-2017

Don't get me wrong, things aren't perfect, connection needs a lot of work because when I can't reliably 4v4 on this game but I can be in 60 person maps in another there is something wrong, and there are balance issues to be sure, but both of these they have made progress towards, they will keep making progress towards and they are communicating that progress.

Gray360UK
06-05-2017, 07:54 PM
t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVcXbzoTS4o&t=44s

That video is exactly what I always hoped For Honor was going to be like ... in fact I'm no longer sure if it was seeing that Gameplay Target Footage in the past that shaped my image of what For Honor was going to be, or if that footage just happens to match what I was always hoping for ... is it new or has it been shown before?

Numerous people (including myself) have given them feedback in the past after the alphas and betas and on the forums at release, asking for exactly that kind of game, and it was always treated as 'interesting feedback' ... seems weird now to think that our feedback was so close to what they nearly made.

Whatever, I'm now going to feel very sad when I play the Dominion we actually got, which is a pale shadow of what we could have had.

ONYX_x5
06-05-2017, 07:59 PM
You are right. However a couch full of people telling you we are looking at things seems very lack luster toward the level urgency being conveyed from the paying players. We are looking. We are aware. BUT!
Always that placating BUT!
How about, ok. This is what we are going to do.
This is not personal Candle. No hate. Just frustration.

CandleInTheDark
06-05-2017, 08:01 PM
You are right. However a couch full of people telling you we are looking at things seems very lack luster toward the level urgency being conveyed from the paying players. We are looking. We are aware. BUT!
Always that placating BUT!
How about, ok. This is what we are going to do.
This is not personal Candle. No hate. Just frustration.

Eh fair enough, and like I said, there are a lot of things that need working on, it just annoys me that people make up 'they are not talking to us' and it is something a lot of people have said, on top of that. Most of those people haven't bothered to look. Take the one hit kill bug last week, saturday afternoon we get both the reps and Eric Pope telling people what is going on and what the plans are, Eric had been on this board and on reddit, sunday morning a guy is all I am surprised that ubisoft have been quiet on this and called us fanboys for pointing out that the devs had been all over it.

AKDagriZ
06-05-2017, 08:21 PM
That video is exactly what I always hoped For Honor was going to be like ... in fact I'm no longer sure if it was seeing that Gameplay Target Footage in the past that shaped my image of what For Honor was going to be, or if that footage just happens to match what I was always hoping for ... is it new or has it been shown before?

Numerous people (including myself) have given them feedback in the past after the alphas and betas and on the forums at release, asking for exactly that kind of game, and it was always treated as 'interesting feedback' ... seems weird now to think that our feedback was so close to what they nearly made.

Whatever, I'm now going to feel very sad when I play the Dominion we actually got, which is a pale shadow of what we could have had.

that is a good statement ! i always thought about dominion mod : that it ? sword version of batlefield or call of duty mixed with a little touch of Orc'S must die

Don't get me wrong i love the fighting mechanics of For honor

ONYX_x5
06-05-2017, 09:11 PM
Don't see it? I see it.. On the couch every warriors den.
We watch it.
And it's always, We would like to, BUT . Or, if we do it could.
Always circumstances. No! Hell no! You do not get to play the victim. You can not make the circumstances and then fall victim to it. You made the game. You sold the game. Now fix the game. The people who paid for this game are the victims.
The devs and all the people defending the devs can not even do it whole hearted.
We know it had problems out of the box, but. We now that there is problems four months later, but. We know there is problems, but. They are going to fix it But. But. Poor Ubisoft, victims of circumstance. If we change this it might change this. People might start getting kicked or something, to late.
I for one do watch, you don't get to be victims of your own doing at the expense of us.
But I guess you do. Can somebody make a list of games they made based on hype but fizzled out fast due to problems that; could not or was not fixed or problems that was manufactured by them after the release? Anybody?

AKDagriZ
06-06-2017, 06:27 AM
just as when players where annoyed with many aspect of many hero and many aspect of the 4v4 issues ,they came out with shinobi and centurion . Who thought that would be nice to give a hero a endless combo of unblockable plus any chance to take regain your stamina while your dealing with such ********

Much ******** is : raider , when he drained you out of stamina he do the zone unblockable ,the only option you have is to try to parry , guess what he cancel on your slow attemp to parry and keep you up with no stam.
Shugoki hyper armor . he only have to turtle all the way down and only attack while you have an animation atack , free heavy everytime ..
Shinobi .. he his annoying to fight with even if you win ,, boring fight

these are only few option ... there way more,too many hero have free attacks . where are those nobushi , orochi , kensei , warlord , warden . Pk they dont have free hits why do you give such free hits on new DL heros ?

sgtpickles
06-06-2017, 08:55 AM
Everybody complained about the old revenge. I bet with these gank squads now they wish they had it back.
That being said the conqueror is a perfect example of knowing your roll. The heavy has to step up and get him off his feet. The heavies roll is to control the revenge players. Well was. Do not blindly gank a con late in the match.
Well if your are a cent or shin the rules do not apply to you. So just do your lame, broken and spamming thing.

I still think the devs nerfed revenge super hard then added the two new heroes to let the people complaining about the old revenge know why revenge is a necessary mechanic.