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BM357_OnYerSix
03-15-2004, 10:50 AM
Is it just me or did the scoring change with all the patches and upgrades? I remember a time that if you landed a plane reguardless of how shot up you were, as long as you got her home and landed it, you were ok. Now if you're shot even a little and land, it gives the kill to the enemy, I don't quite agree with this. Enemy aircraft destroyed means just that!

And friendly kills are the same way, you can accidentally hit a friendly and if he lands to respawn, even if your very few bullets are the only ones in him, you get a negative score. Maybe I'm the only one, but I feel this needs to change especially for scripted reasons, if you bring your plane home, it can be repaired, as it is now, you still LOOSE that plane.

Another problem I find is landing errors effecting your score. I believe that points should be taken for landing mistakes, but lets be real, some mistakes are worse than others and should be judged accordingly. A simple prop-strike cause of a bounce should not take any points. I had received a kill recently, made a decent landing, but bounced just a little, the prop hit with the engine OFF and that was the only problem of the landing and I received *NO* points for my kill, it said I ditched when I absolutely did not. I think this needs to change cause there are times you can work awefully hard for a kill and get it stolen from you because of something like a very minor landing mistake.

Sorry, I don't mean to seem like I'm ranting or *****ing about this. It's just players can get really frustrated and down hearted about such things, I know I've lost intrest in the game a time or two cause of it cause it makes you feel like what are you working so hard for?

I just remember a time when if I were shooting at a landing plane and if I couldn't kill the pilot or do a significate amout of damage and he still landed and respawned, I got no points for it, as it should be....maybe I'm remembering it wrong, I don't know.

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BM357_OnYerSix
03-15-2004, 10:50 AM
Is it just me or did the scoring change with all the patches and upgrades? I remember a time that if you landed a plane reguardless of how shot up you were, as long as you got her home and landed it, you were ok. Now if you're shot even a little and land, it gives the kill to the enemy, I don't quite agree with this. Enemy aircraft destroyed means just that!

And friendly kills are the same way, you can accidentally hit a friendly and if he lands to respawn, even if your very few bullets are the only ones in him, you get a negative score. Maybe I'm the only one, but I feel this needs to change especially for scripted reasons, if you bring your plane home, it can be repaired, as it is now, you still LOOSE that plane.

Another problem I find is landing errors effecting your score. I believe that points should be taken for landing mistakes, but lets be real, some mistakes are worse than others and should be judged accordingly. A simple prop-strike cause of a bounce should not take any points. I had received a kill recently, made a decent landing, but bounced just a little, the prop hit with the engine OFF and that was the only problem of the landing and I received *NO* points for my kill, it said I ditched when I absolutely did not. I think this needs to change cause there are times you can work awefully hard for a kill and get it stolen from you because of something like a very minor landing mistake.

Sorry, I don't mean to seem like I'm ranting or *****ing about this. It's just players can get really frustrated and down hearted about such things, I know I've lost intrest in the game a time or two cause of it cause it makes you feel like what are you working so hard for?

I just remember a time when if I were shooting at a landing plane and if I couldn't kill the pilot or do a significate amout of damage and he still landed and respawned, I got no points for it, as it should be....maybe I'm remembering it wrong, I don't know.

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Flamin_Squirrel
03-15-2004, 11:21 AM
Yeah i think points could do with some looking into. Points for shared kills would be one of the things id really like to see. Perhaps points for damaging aircraft too.

I definately think there should be greater points for getting back to base with battle damage than simply ditching. Severe damage (colapesd gear, destroyed engine) should carry a penalty, but less than a ditch imo.

BM357_Raven
03-15-2004, 01:01 PM
I'm not sure if the scoring has changed, but it seems to me that you might be right... I dunno.. I'll have to pay closer attention to that.

I thought it was just a infruent error, but maybe it is more common than not that this occurs..

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AtomicRunt
03-15-2004, 01:37 PM
The points always seem to change with each update. Personaly I rather have the option for kills and shared kills, shoot an enemy down,get 1 kill not 100 points.Could work for ground objects as well. Instead of seeing the number of points you have when you hit the "S" key see something like...
3/2/6 Meaning 3 kills-2 shared-6 ground objects destroyed. With all the whining about realizm I'm surprized this hasn't been addressed.
JMHO.

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AtomicRunt
03-15-2004, 05:42 PM
Bump...curious if anyone else has thoughts on this????

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BM357_OnYerSix
03-16-2004, 07:26 AM
Absolutely, AtomicRunt, I agree, I would rather see kills than points!

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US380thBG-Tug-
03-16-2004, 08:15 AM
I agree that the scoring system has some issues. For me, the points awarded per se is neither here no there. One hundred, 1, it's all good. But the manner in which kills are awarded can be pretty frustrating. I'm thinking in particular of the case of multi-engine bombers. For example, if one engine is damaged by AAA you might as well bail. For if the damaged engine eventually fails while you nurse the striken aircraft back to base, you are recorded as destroyed -even with a perfect landing!

Very aggravating, particularly since getting hit while level bombing in a flak barrage is extremely common. Granted there are probably bigger issues for the developers to deal with first, but I hope this does eventually get some attention.

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heywooood
03-16-2004, 08:29 AM
All this seems pretty valid to me.. have you posted to ORR? Its not a bug report but I agree
with what you are saying. A kill is a kill and
successfully returning to base is a challenge that should be rewarded to the degree that the plane is salvageable. Otherwise why bother.

Huxley_S
03-16-2004, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Granted there are probably bigger issues for the developers to deal with first, but I hope this does eventually get some attention.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It bugs me that the developers spend much more time adding X more planes than fixing some of the fundamental problems that would improve the experience for FB as a whole.

The scoring system for online play is woeful.

Shared kills should have points distributed between the planes that earned the kill... and you should be able to differentiate between ground kills, shared kills and normal kills like AtomicRunt says.

A kill should mean the total destruction of the aircraft, death of the pilot or causing the pilot / crew to bail out or causing the pilot to ditch in hostile territory.

There need to be incentives for trying to make you want to rtb than to simply bail out. Landing a crippled aircraft back at base should get some extra points whereas landing in the field or ditching/bailing over friendly territory should not.

I'd rather see these things fixed and not as many new planes if necessary.

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PEr_Gavran
03-16-2004, 09:23 AM
i definitely agree with the need for change in the scoring system and I have noticed a change in AEP with regards to losing points due to minor damages upon landing. Just last night I RTB-d with a spit in a perfect condition and was grazed by someone vulching over the base. I sustained no damage and landed only to bend my prop at the last minute and the vulcher was awarded a kill!
Landing on the airfield with a damaged plane always reads as landed in the field or ditched for some reason as well... might as well just bail and get back up faster then.

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[This message was edited by PEr_Gavran on Tue March 16 2004 at 08:50 AM.]

Zayets
03-16-2004, 09:36 AM
Oh,those vulchers...

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BaldieJr
03-16-2004, 09:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
Oh,those vulchers...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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AtomicRunt
03-16-2004, 09:54 AM
Well Baldie,Zayets I see no problem with vulching, if the rules in the brief say its OK. But Gavran brings up yet another reason why the current system doesn't work. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

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NorrisMcWhirter
03-16-2004, 09:54 AM
Hi,

I've seen some oddities recently, too. Examples being:

a. Being awarded friendly kills on high speed bnz passes when the friendly was following the defender but below me and not travelling as fast as me : i.e. could not have suddenly come into my stream of fire.

b. Cutting aircraft into very small pieces only to have AAA claim the kill because it keeps shooting at the pilot/wreckage on it's way down.

c. Seeing messages where 'norris has downed &lt;insert name&gt;' but having no points awarded, even away from AAA. Presumably, someone else gets the points but this is even if the a/c had apparently no prior damage, then I've shredded it and have seen no one take a shot at it on the way down.

Curious..and annoying, at times.

Cheers,
Norris


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AB_Onedoc
03-16-2004, 07:03 PM
I think the scoring is a little off in every patch and I'm not going into the details at this point as so many have already stated them. A word of warning for the kill stealers though. I usually fly a Jug which means my main job is to wound somebody in a high speed pass then let them get chewed up in the feeding frenzy of the furball. So, it is only occasionally that I latch on to someones tail and begin to pound them with the 8 BB guns. This usually involves a long burst or a series of short burst to bring down anything, especially a FW or a Yak, etc. Sometimes as the plane is disintegrating and smoking someone on my team drops down in front of me to "finish them off" since the points are meaningless at this point I have begun to shoot these people in the arse. I don't care if I get negative points for it. The points are screwed anyway. The same goes for someone chasing one of my kills to the ground as it spins and spirals and the pilot bails and they run in to collect easy points. They should remember I now have alt, air speed and an attitude over their cockpit. I have had it with the steal killers. This was brought to a head a few nights ago, when flying a Jug which everyone knows is not the best, I sent 8 planes down in flames only to have someone in a yak or 109Z or some other uber plane swoop down to collect the kill. After hanging around at alt and not helping me while I fought like crazy to make the kill with the Jug. You steal killers can do it all you want, but be aware, you do it to me and I am on your butt no matter what color you are. Another thing while I am on a tirade. Does anybody have any situational awareness anymore? There can be ten of us on a team headed to an enemy base. We encounter one lone plane and I swear the other nine will jump on that one and try to get the kill not thinking there are 9 others on the other team headed our way gaining alt all the time. WTH? Think people, think. You have now given up your airspeed and altitude and position and all hope of tactics and allowed the enemy in mass to approach you with every advantage at their disposal. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I am maintaining alt and speed and trying slashing attacks as I dodge those not in my sights trying to inflict as much damage as possible before they descend on you with biblical ferocity. I am bound to go down before the onslaught but I try. Maybe I should just turn around, drop the nose and let ya'll get what you got coming. Good grief, think people, think.
WYS
AB_Onedoc

BaldieJr
03-16-2004, 07:15 PM
Kill stealing is lame, but team killing is lamer. You know how the game is played. If you don't like it, don't play it, or play like everyone else: fly uber planes.

It takes a good sport to fly crap planes, and a better sport to not be sore about it.

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AB_Onedoc
03-16-2004, 08:22 PM
So if I don't like people do crap like that I should just not play the game? Well, if they don't want a teammate shooting them they shouldn't steal kills. Anyone purposefully stealing a kill just committed an offense against a teammate. To Hades with them. They don't like getting their just desserts, they can leave the game.

I have been online in flight sims since CFS1 came out and anyone else who has been around any time knows I play fair and square unless someone starts some crap and then I tell them what I am about to do to them and then do it.
As for the uber planes. I tried a yak one time. I had spent an hour or two collecting 200 points in a jug and then got 1180 in 20 minutes in a yak. Boy, there's a lot of ability involved in that, isn't there? You notice I said in my post those flying uber planes, refusing to help their teammates and then stealing kills, yeah, we have to let those guys pull crap like that and protect them from the enemy. As long as that behavior is tolerated, it will flourish. Only when the fair players stop tolerating it and begin punishing it will it stop. You reap what you sow. Cover my back and I cover yours. Steal my kills and I make sure you don't get back to the airstrip with the plane.
Doc

BM357_OnYerSix
03-22-2004, 03:16 PM
Oh yeah, kill stealers are upsetting, and as far as I'm conserned, what you do with them is your perogitive, kill them if you will. But, as frustrating as it can be to have a kill stolen, in a scripted server I must say to resist the urge to kill them seeing as how every plane and pilot are so important to a win.

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BM357_Raven
03-22-2004, 03:42 PM
would be cool if it split the kill for sure. So each player get's an equal percentage. If three friendlies are all working on the same bandit they would each get 1/3rd or 33 points..

could present some problems too...dunno.. I get jumped by a friendly all the time when I am working on a bandit, he'll move in and sometimes shoot me in an effort to get a piece, and other times he'll simply move in and get between me and the bandit.

Sometimes there's a questionable spread between me and the bandit and the other guy has the clear energy advantage to close, but other times the guy just wants the kill and is not concerned about me at all.

Usually, I just stay quiet about it and move to the next kill. I kind of see things like Baldie, to a degree. So many things happen in there. I take it from the perspective that there are no rules unless they are stated in the description.

I'll be coming home with three hard earned kills under my belt, maybe even a AAA...who knows, just ready to really fatten up my score.. Wheels down, brakes on coming to a full stop, then I hear it....closing quickly... braking harder now, left rudder too trying to get off the runway and maybe create a hard angle.....now I am nervous...almost stopped almost.....BLACK SCREEN..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Sit there for a minute.. Staring at a black screen. Hit Escape. Hit Refly. Back in! Now lemme go find the guy who vulched me.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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AB_Onedoc
03-22-2004, 04:13 PM
I agree. On a dedicated server I don't care who gets the credit. It is a team game. I am talking about DF servers.
WYS
AB_Onedoc

Kneenibbler
03-22-2004, 07:21 PM
Onedoc makes a point. Most people who play this sim enough can distinguish between a fight that's basically over, and one that may require you to jump in and help to down a plane. It sucks so much to rip a wing of a plane with after a heck of a chase and nice shooting only to have some knuckle head race in behind after you break away, get a few shots on and score the kill. They seem to play the game like it's UT or something.

I was so close to flipping around last nite and killing my team mate it wasn't even funny because he did exactly what I stated above.

Was it on purpose? Sure looked like it to me. I was following so close to this guys tail ripping him to shreads there's no way anyone could believe he wasn't going down. When his tail fin flew off and he started spiralling downward that should have been an even bigger clue. But did I get the kill... nope. Quit the server because I was so pissed.

I guess the only thing you can do is guard you kill as he goes down blocking out any shot someone else might have. That means giving up all your alt to get the victory I suppose.