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View Full Version : Reason we are angry is so simple ...



Herbstlicht
06-03-2017, 12:35 PM
What you did create .. those beautiful battlefields, those amazing warriors with all their intricate weapons and armors. This whole new fighting system that can be so incredibly fun. Whatever you compare the base of this game to, even the newest fighters like Injustice or Tekken 7 (don't own Injustice, only Tekken), you get something that is .. so much more, so much innovation for this kinda genre. More game modes - I mean Dominion is one of the best things ever to happen for this kind of game. In all honesty, visually, and the base of the battle system, are simply unbelievably incredible. Right now, still, no other fighting game - in my humble opinion - compares to this.

However, you tried to meddle in many areas at once. Fighting Genre. A little bit of DOTA. A little bit of our well known fast paced Shooter-Action. And all those games normally share one thing in common: incredibly careful balancing.

And this, where at least right now for quiet some players, a lot of frustration comes from.

One thing should be true to this game. Like in every fighting sports. It is not about your style (or weapon). It is about the fighter - about your skills. With every character viable, people already would love this game WAY more.

Then there is this whole issue with loosing control.
An issue long existing in various games, an always ongoing complaint in games that don't manage it correctly. And examples can come from everywhere, with the best example being larger scale games - like MMORPG's. There you normally got a lot of melee fighting going on as well. Of course, it is way less elaborate, but whenever teams clash, devs normally choose to have only weak cc effects or some diminishing returns on them. For the sake of the game and the sanity of it's players.
In For Honors Dominion matches, we will encounter 2on1 pretty often. Where pre Season 2 after revenge nerf the lone wolf was clearly slightly disadvantaged and should be on the defensive, there were a lot of situations you could hold out. But even there, Shugoki, Raider, Lawbringer etc. could severly mess you up. However, due to more balanced team compositions and less prevalent cc overall, this wasn't that much of an issue.

For this issue, I even got some solutions.
Easiest to implement: In team modes - outnumbered situations - let cc-effects build revenge exponentially faster. Revenge can be activated when in cc. As long as Revenge is active, you are immune to cc-effects.
Harder to implement but more useful:
Stacking buff on cc-victims, "tough skin" (or whatever one would call it):
1 cc adds 1 stack, reducing further cc-effectiveness by 33%. Stacks 3 times then falls of or - if this wasn't enough: grants full cc-immunity for a set period of time.
Of course, you can always change values. Even stuff like reducing by 50% and you are fully immune to the third cc. There are a million ways for getting this to work. And - to be clear - this is only for outnumbered situations.


Overall, I think with your Ideas you are kinda on track. Weakening parry and increasing chip damage is a good thing to do.
However, there is one thing I kinda still worry about. If we arrive at the almost perfect state of defensive meta gone and we enjoy a fun brawler once again, you need be even more careful with frame advantages.
Take a character like Nobushi for example. What is the intend? Shall she be able to hold their enemies at bay very well? Will she need distance to win a fight, with her already kinda loosing when someone closes distance? A lot of "old" mechanics could possibly play in there incredibly well - take deflect for example. However, one thing that should never ever happen again, is characters starting to spam their fastest lights constantly after having closed into you.
Avoiding this would be rather easy. Your opponent finished his chain? Now you have a slight window to start your own - as long as he did only hit you with a light. People continuously eating heavies deserve to die oO


Well, that got rather big rather quickly.

Anyway, though at times frustrated beyond measure, I still love your game and hope it "get's well soon".

Sarhaed
06-03-2017, 03:26 PM
I agree. For Honor is unique. I love the design of its gameplay, and I am amazed at the effort the creative team is actually putting in all the little details of the maps and the characters. Therefore, I would be utterly disappointed if the game "died" too soon. There's nothing like it on the market at the moment.

-I agree 100% with the revenge build up on crowd control effects, especially on unblockable ones (cent kick, warlord headbutt, shinobi kick... etc). At the moment, these moves are meant to open up turtles in duels, but in gank situation spamming them become much more problematic. And as always, chain CC are the opposite of fun in ANY game.
-Your "tough skin idea" isn't bad, but I think it is a bit convoluted and many players and newcomers would have a hard time figuring how it works, and it's always difficult to fight an opponent with a resistance to CC that is not always the same. But maybe I'm underestimating the players here.
-I think overall the game needs a better definition of: what purpose does revenge serve ? Revenge is supposed to give you a chance to survive and sometimes win gank situations, but then, why can we activate it in 1v1 so often ? A friend of mine suggested that revenge becomes a massive buff to your offense for a very short period of time (like, 5 seconds or so), giving you super armor and all your attacks becoming unblockable, giving you a very short chance to kill one of your opponents. I don't know about the balance of that kind of thing, but at least it could be a good way to scare away most gankers.
-Anyway, I'm okay with a very OP revenge mode stats wise (like it was at release, when my Kensei could kill assassins in two hits... xD), but only if it builds much more slowly and doesn't stay for ages like it was before. Sometimes, I think people forget how horrible the first revenge system was.

-Finally, I agree too on everything you said about Nobushi and range in general. I think that the turtle meta sadly negates all the little details of range within the gameplay of most characters, but maybe this will come to an end. I mostly play Berserker these days and as a close combat fighter, I would like to see more mindgames with ranged characters. At the moment, I just have to close the gap by blocking everything I see, and only when I am in range beginning to take some actual risks. I'm kinda excited about chip damage though, and I hope this will be significant enough to change the overall pace of combat.

XxHunterHxX
06-03-2017, 03:44 PM
Roll the game back to the beta days...that is when the game was fun....

RatedChaotic
06-03-2017, 03:49 PM
I have been getting more enjoyment out of a f2p p2w games pvp than this broken mess of a game. Great concept. Piss poor execution. Thats why I am angry.

kweassa1917
06-03-2017, 04:04 PM
Essentially the only thing that's worth getting angry about is abuse of uncondoned, unsanctioned methods as in bugs and glitches, leavers and AFKers and etc..

Most of the frustration and anger that comes out of games I play is directed towards myself, because there were other alternatives I could have chosen, and yet failed to do so. That's what PvP is.


Ranting and cussin' and pissin' about how balance screws them over in open forums? Classic whiney nubshi*tery with way too many excuses. Life tells us those wankers, no matter how much patching or balancing is done -- still whine just the same.


Said this a zillion times, can say it a zillion more. Balance is only a big issue in higher levels of gameplay, where people are so much skilled that they don't make any stupid mistakes, or do unreasonable things. Hence the variables that effect the fight become more limited, and the varaible that existed even before the fight happens -- relative class balance -- becomes a serious factor.

In most average level of players, balance is but just one of innumerable many factors that affect your game.

And judging by the context of what these idiots are whining about in the forums, I sincerely doubt any of them are on a skill level to be complaining about balance.