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red_tomahawk
02-18-2004, 10:19 AM
Salute! To all...Just curious on how someone like myself or the folks around here could actually get your pilot license or whatever it takes to be able to fly an old fighter lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Probably sounds ridiculous, but if i could come up with the money, which would probably be way over my head, then i would seriously look into it.....imagine being up at 10,000ft or so and pulling off some split-S's and B-rolls! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gifSo, anyone have any good suggestions or comments on this dream!

~S~

red_tomahawk
02-18-2004, 10:19 AM
Salute! To all...Just curious on how someone like myself or the folks around here could actually get your pilot license or whatever it takes to be able to fly an old fighter lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Probably sounds ridiculous, but if i could come up with the money, which would probably be way over my head, then i would seriously look into it.....imagine being up at 10,000ft or so and pulling off some split-S's and B-rolls! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gifSo, anyone have any good suggestions or comments on this dream!

~S~

BpGemini
02-18-2004, 10:21 AM
BlitzPig_Tailspin flies them often.
He took Hilts up in a P-51 IIRC.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

XyZspineZyX
02-18-2004, 10:23 AM
Well, I imagine it'd be hard to do. For one, the planes themselves are rare, flyable ones rarer still.

You'd have more luck getting a *ride* in one that was privately owned (@$500 for a ride in a Stang or $400 in a B-17 from the last prices I've seen).

But, getting to actually fly it yourself? Yikes, good luck finding that. I think you'd have to OWN the bloody thing yourself, and that, my friend, would be one expensive proposition.

Chuck_Older
02-18-2004, 10:24 AM
It's like anything else:


All You Need Is Money


Of corse, even a Harvard is incredibly expensive, let alone a Spit, Mustang or a rarer bird like a Lightning or-gasp-a Bf109, A6M, or the like. I seem to recall that a company was renting out Stearmans about 10 years ago.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

mortoma
02-19-2004, 03:26 PM
If you had the money, you'd have to have at least 1,000 hours logged as a private pilot, with 500 of those hours as pilot in command to fly a surplus military turbine and 500 total hours as a private pilot to fly a piston engined surplus military aircraft. Then you would have to obtain a "LOA" ( Letter of Authority ) from the FAA. You don't need a type rating for most warbirds because most surplus military high-powered or turbine aircraft were never issued a standard category type certificate. So they came up with the LOA instead. You would be issued the LOA after aquiring the neccesary log time and upon completing a flight test by an examiner. If there is no extra seat, the examiner can observe from the ground or in a chase plane. At least this is the case in the U.S.
Planes in the U.S that require a LOA are:

North American F-86 Sabre
North American F-100 Super Sabre
Grumman F9F Panther
de Havilland Vampire
All types of Russian Migs
North American P-51 Mustang
Hawker Sea Fury
Bell P-39 Airacobra
Messershmitt BF-109

mortoma
02-19-2004, 04:45 PM
Forgot to mention that if you want to do loops and split-Ss and the like you would also have get a aerobatic rating on top of everything else.

bird_brain
02-19-2004, 05:01 PM
This link came from another thread down the board but it could be what you are looking for...
http://www.stallion51.com/home.cfm?CFID=1683774&CFTOKEN=3f291ec-000a6562-cf2e-1034-bec6-328042df782e

I would sign up too.

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**** The Hell Hawks Campaign is available @ ****
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DONB3397
02-19-2004, 05:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Well, I imagine it'd be hard to do. For one, the planes themselves are rare, flyable ones rarer still.

You'd have more luck getting a *ride* in one that was privately owned (@$500 for a ride in a Stang or $400 in a B-17 from the last prices I've seen)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Collings Foundation offers flights in their B-24 ("Dragon and his Tail") and B-17 for $3-400. It's a great ride, and makes you appreciate what the crews endured on high altitude, long duration flights. Noisy, windy, vibrating...and, for ppl like us, wonderful. I joined the foundation and now we're fighting to keep the FAA from changing safety rules that would make it nearly impossible to provide this experience.

The CAF has a few 2-seater fighters (Mustangs, AT-6s, Vultees, etc.) that provide rides for pay. "Associate Members" who contribute to the restoration also get access on occasion.

Anything is possible, but the people who fly these planes generally have hundreds of hours in military and/or commercial aircraft before getting into the cockpit. The pilot I flew with was a reservist who flies C-5s on the weekends, and 737s for an airline during the week. On days off, he pays for his own transportation to the places where he meets up with the plane and volunteers his time to fly the paying enthusiasts around for an hour or so.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
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Falcon_41
02-19-2004, 06:00 PM
Red mate!

It's not all that hard to get your thrill bone scratched!

First get your private pilots license

then go rent a Piper Tomahawk (coincidence?)

and go up and do spins

and Immelmanns

and split whatevers!

99% of the thrill of the big aircraft

can be had at $55/hour.

THEN

if you still want more ...

continue your pilot learnin'

and one day ...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Falcon

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willyvic
02-19-2004, 06:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Falcon_41:
Red mate!

It's not all that hard to get your thrill bone scratched!

First get your private pilots license

then go rent a Piper Tomahawk (coincidence?)

and go up and do spins

and Immelmanns

and split whatevers!

99% of the thrill of the big aircraft

can be had at $55/hour.

THEN

if you still want more ...

continue your pilot learnin'

and one day ...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Falcon

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Piper Tomahawk, first bird I flew. Now that one will let ya know when your entering a stall. Thought the friggin tail was gonna come off...lol.

http://www.rcaf-squadron.org/willyvic/images/mig3u.jpg

EPP-Gibbs
02-19-2004, 06:40 PM
Take a look. http://www.ml407.co.uk/

You can go up in a two seater MkIX Spit, owned and flown by Caroline Grace the only female Spitfire pilot in the world, if you've got the dough.

It's based at Duxford, Cambridgeshire, England.

If I had all the money I'd spent on drink..I'd spend it on drink!

Triscadec
02-19-2004, 11:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Falcon_41:
Red mate!

It's not all that hard to get your thrill bone scratched!

First get your private pilots license

then go rent a Piper Tomahawk (coincidence?)

and go up and do spins

and Immelmanns

and split whatevers!

99% of the thrill of the big aircraft

can be had at $55/hour.

THEN

if you still want more ...

continue your pilot learnin'

and one day ...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Falcon

http://hometown.aol.com/ifalkon/myhomepage/fis_banner_09%20newstyle.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


After you're done doing aerobatics in a aircraft that isn't certified for it, you will be lucky if you don't remove the wings and create a smoking hole doing this.

If by some chance you get back in one piece, get out your wallet, because when the next renter preflights this craft and notices the fuse and wing skin wrinkles, you will be responsible for fixing the damage. It will only run you around $30,000 USD to clear your account.

And finally, if someone spots you doing aerobatics in a Traumahawk, you will likely get a tap on the shoulder from your friendly FSDO inspector.

So, to sum it up, an hour of aero in a Tomacoffin will cost you roughly $30,055.00 USD, possibly your life, and possibly a FAA certificate action against you.

Go for it!

LOL

T

Willi_Wombat
02-20-2004, 07:49 AM
Triscadec is wrong mostly, Falcon is right mostly. A/c may not be certified for some aerobatic maneuvers, but as long as you do not exceed maneuvering speed, heed the FOM and fly in uncontrolled airspace there is no problem with enjoying a safe and totally orgasmic time in a traumahawk that has been properly operated and maintained.

No fees, suits, damaged a/c or dead people.

Relax and have fun!

WW

[This message was edited by Willi_Wombat on Fri February 20 2004 at 08:08 AM.]

red_tomahawk
02-20-2004, 01:07 PM
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and comments! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Alot of great ideas and goals!!

Salute!

Triscadec
02-20-2004, 04:38 PM
Let's see. The Tomahawk is only certificated for 4 high performance maneuvers when operated in the utility category: spins, steep turns, lazy eights, and chandelles.

I seriously wouldn't take Willi's advice, because you are just asking for trouble. The Tomahawk has a sketchy spin record on top of that, so spinning can be an adventure in itself. So doing an immelman or a split S is likely to over stress the airframe.

Do what you want, but do yourself a favor and don't take the advice of Willi. You may not even live to regret it.

T

Falcon_41
02-20-2004, 07:21 PM
There you go Red, two slightly different trains of thought ...

When you get your pilot's license you will have probably developed your own ideas about flying. Get expert advice too cuz 40 - 300 hours of flight time is just enough to get you in real trouble.

For my money, a Tomahawk has an excellent safety record. Talk to the mechanic, check the logs, learn the speeds, etc.

As far as spins go, in the Tomahawk they are exciting! Ahem. You will probably fall asleep spinning in a 152.

Outside loops are right out, let's not be silly, but a split S or three should be no problem. Have someone with experience go with you first.

Or ... rent an Eagle or Pits Special and do MORE than the war birds can do.

Falcon

Tomahawk owner (1982-89) still alive. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://hometown.aol.com/ifalkon/myhomepage/fis_banner_09%20newstyle.gif

TX-EcoDragon
03-15-2004, 09:42 PM
Lets all be careful out there. . . and dare I say, legal. (and you might also want to review the research about the Tomahawk spin issues, which I presume you have if you have been spinning it, its just handy to be prepared to unbuckle your belts and crawl on the glareshield just in case. NTSB or Rich Stowell are good sources, I lost a friend to one, and he was a competent aerobatic pilot)

One thing I can agree with is that a Pitts, Extra, Decathlon or Even Citabria are going to be much less costly and far more capable aircraft as far as the types of flying you are talking about. you can get some stick time in a a TF-51 (dual control P-51)for around 1,800-2,400 per hour, and while that would abviously be cool I think you would have more fun getting ten hours in an Extra (in fact I KNOW you would!!) 300 horses goes a long way when your aircraft only weighs 1300 pounds! 400 degrees/second roll rate is faster than your brain can percieve, and plus and minus 8-10Gs will certainly get you famished! Warbirds are generally pretty limited in their flight envelopes. There are some exceptions, like the WWII PT-17 Stearman (sure, we can call it a warbird!). I find this to be a fun way to fly, and to enjoy the nostalgia, for not too much money, and in a fun flying aircraft. you may find these for as little as 180/hour including fuel,oil, and insturctor.

A private pilot with proper training and a checkout flight can fly aerobatics in aerobatic category aircraft usually with some limitations on solo aerobaitcs in the higher performance aircraft based on your total time, and tiem in type.

A fun way to start your private pilot certificate is to use a Citabria, they rent for just about the same amount as a C-172, but can do basic aerobatics, and the tailwheel will help you learn right the first time about what your feet should be doing.
(btw to the above poster that said you need an aerobatics rating, that is true in some places but not others, in the US you do not need, nor is there any such rating)


S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

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First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
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[This message was edited by TX-EcoDragon on Mon March 15 2004 at 09:17 PM.]

JG27_Arklight
03-15-2004, 10:38 PM
My moms friend owns a P-51D and a Hawker Sea Fury.

Did I ever get to fly in them? NOPE! LOL

Ark

Ding ****, the witch is dead!
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huggy87
03-16-2004, 12:15 AM
You could become a millionaire celebrity. My squadron of a few years ago gave a PR ride to "Sting". Well, its a hornet, not a WW2 warbird.

Also, a lot of test pilots I know get to fly a myriad of aircraft in training, including old mustangs and Mig-21's. Paid for by Uncle Sam.

Doesn't it break your heart to know that immediately after the war the government was selling off their planes dirt cheap. Mustangs were only $3000 back then.

WOLFMondo
03-16-2004, 12:38 AM
The British didn't even sell them in some cases, in south east asia they took the guns, engines and electrical equipment out and left them where they were parked or in many cases empited the hangers and pushed the planes of the aircraft carrier decks so they could transport troops and former POW's home.

Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

Charlie901
03-16-2004, 12:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Forgot to mention that if you want to do loops and split-Ss and the like you would also have get a aerobatic rating on top of everything else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I flew a T-6 SNJ at an airport in Kissime Florida.

For $400.00 I flew it with no pilots license and did loops, split S's, wingover's, Cuban Eights, reverse Cuban Eights, and more acrobatic maneuvers than I can remember for 1 hour. I got a DVD of the entire flight and 35mm still photo's, with multiple camera angles. I was in the front seat and the instructor was in the rear. What a blast!

After he taught me how to do gentle turns applying stick and rudder we moved on to the medium and hard turns. He had me trim the A/C with the trim wheel and I flew it the whole time, except for take off and landing of course. He would tell me to turn this way or that and how hard, and I would do it. He also told me to increase/decrease speed by diving or climbing and he told me to get to different altitudes before doing specific maneuvers.

I was amazed at how easy it was. I stalled once after coming out of an immelman and the A/C seemed to recover with almost no effort. I really think that flying IL2 improved my situational awareness when doing the combos of loops and rolls cause I never lost track of what attitude we were in at any given moment.

Hence I never got sick (unlike my poor bro whom we now refer to as, "Two Bags"). I gotta hand it to my 16yr-old bro though he continued to fly his Texan T-6 while holding both barf bags.

I was fortunate enough to do this after my dad who has his own plane and his CPL asked me to take him to the same airport cause he was going up in a two seat P-51 Mustang. He also flew the P-51 with his instructor and they got clearance from an active nearby military base to do mock ground attack strafing runs on the bases target field which had tanks and other targets strewn about.

Anyway he bought me and my two bro's flights in the T-6's and we took off in tight formation. I highly recommed the experience it's worth the $$$$ and the bonus is they have an A/C museaum there with a restoration of a B-17 about 90% complete. They showed us a P-40 they were restoring and we got to touch the A/C and get a close up view of a wing section for the P-40 they were rebuilding (the thing was massive). I also saw a flying Spit, two flying B-24's, a Russian Mig-21 not restored yet, a Flying Brittish Vampire Jet (Very cool), Skyhawk, several flyable P-51's, and a lot of other cool stuff.

I'll get some of my pics posted soon!

Charlie901
03-16-2004, 02:55 PM
*Bump* for original poster.

red_tomahawk
03-16-2004, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I flew a T-6 SNJ at an airport in Kissime Florida.

For $400.00 I flew it with no pilots license and did loops, split S's, wingover's, Cuban Eights, reverse Cuban Eights, and more acrobatic maneuvers than I can remember for 1 hour. I got a DVD of the entire flight and 35mm still photo's, with multiple camera angles. I was in the front seat and the instructor was in the rear. What a blast!

After he taught me how to do gentle turns applying stick and rudder we moved on to the medium and hard turns. He had me trim the A/C with the trim wheel and I flew it the whole time, except for take off and landing of course. He would tell me to turn this way or that and how hard, and I would do it. He also told me to increase/decrease speed by diving or climbing and he told me to get to different altitudes before doing specific maneuvers.!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Very nice! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifwould like to see some of those pics! not a bad price at all....planning on doing it within the next 6 months!

Thanks Charlie! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

mortoma
03-16-2004, 03:33 PM
Well yea, of course you can do loops and aerobatics without the rating if you have a
pilot that has the ratings with you in the plane. I forgot about that....you wouldn't even have to be a pilot with any experience at all to do that. I thought the original poster wanted to know what he'd have to go through to become a pilot and go all the way to that level himself and not just go on a fantasy flight like anybody can go on.

red_tomahawk
03-16-2004, 03:40 PM
I do eventually want to earn my pilots license, however if i can fly now for $400, do all the things mentioned earlier, then i can wait a while for the real deal.....ya know what i mean http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S!

red_tomahawk
03-16-2004, 03:40 PM
I do eventually want to earn my pilots license, however if i can fly now for $400, do all the things mentioned earlier, then i can wait a while for the real deal.....ya know what i mean http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S!

red_tomahawk
03-16-2004, 03:41 PM
sorry for double post....accident