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View Full Version : After all, what is going to nerf heavy classes ????



Thorsein
05-31-2017, 01:54 AM
This is sad because the game is so cool, but some things just spoil the game, it's just ridiculous that nothing has been done yet. Heavy classes have a lot of defense and a lot of damage, they attack faster than Vanguards, they drop you on any cliff even though they are in the middle of the arena and can only be pushing their opponents until they fall, have unlockable attacks, some even drain stamina from their opponent... meanwhile assassins do not have unlockable attacks and have nothing to knock down opponents in holes other than the guard break with slight pushes, they are limited just to attack, this without any recourse to open the defense of the opponent since as I said before , Does not have any unlockable blow or an efficient guard break. Vanguards are slower than heavy classes ... wtf ??? this is ridiculous! Not to mention this beautiful news: the centurions, which are a joke of bad taste, they jump 200 meters away to attack you, a lot of attacks unlockable, drain your stamina and when they break your guard you do nothing but watch He will kill you. It's over time to balance these classes, right?:o

CoyoteXStarrk
05-31-2017, 02:12 AM
Of all the issues in the game right now I can safely tell you that the Heavy classes are not one of them.


Conqueror

- The single worst hero in the game at the moment. So much so that he is receiving a rework soon according to the Devs.

- Lowest potential damage of all heavies

- His most powerful move is the single most telegraphed move in the game other than the Shugoki Grab

- He is easily picked apart by assassins which are the most popular class at the moment

- His shield bash is his greatest weapon and even it can be easily dodged unless he hits you into a wall.


Shugoki

- His armor is shredded by ANYBODY who has a quick One Two punch so he can't make use of it

- His armor takes time to come back so any decent player will keep it off of him

- He possesses the slowest sprint speed

- Slowest attack speed

- Most easily parried attacks in the game

- His grab is the single most telegraphed and easily dodged move in the game and if he misses it removes a LARGE portion of his health

- His One-Shot requires him to be on the brink of death

- His stun knocks his opponent out of attack range

- He has an abysmally slow guard switch speed

- Has the least amount of combos in the game


Warlord

While being easily the best heavy and one of the better classes in the game he has his own shortcomings. Not claiming he is bad by ANY means. Just saying he isn't perfect.

- His best attacks come from overheads so its easy for an opponent to guess they are coming

- His headbutt is required for his best combos so that is also easy to see coming

- His combos are also short and predictable L+H's or vice versa




So no. Heavy classes are NOT a problem in this game at the moment.

Thorsein
05-31-2017, 02:31 AM
Of all the issues in the game right now I can safely tell you that the Heavy classes are not one of them.


Conqueror

- The single worst hero in the game at the moment. So much so that he is receiving a rework soon according to the Devs.

- Lowest potential damage of all heavies

- His most powerful move is the single most telegraphed move in the game other than the Shugoki Grab

- He is easily picked apart by assassins which are the most popular class at the moment

- His shield bash is his greatest weapon and even it can be easily dodged unless he hits you into a wall.


Shugoki

- His armor is shredded by ANYBODY who has a quick One Two punch so he can't make use of it

- His armor takes time to come back so any decent player will keep it off of him

- He possesses the slowest sprint speed

- Slowest attack speed

- Most easily parried attacks in the game

- His grab is the single most telegraphed and easily dodged move in the game and if he misses it removes a LARGE portion of his health

- His One-Shot requires him to be on the brink of death

- His stun knocks his opponent out of attack range

- He has an abysmally slow guard switch speed

- Has the least amount of combos in the game


Warlord

While being easily the best heavy and one of the better classes in the game he has his own shortcomings. Not claiming he is bad by ANY means. Just saying he isn't perfect.

- His best attacks come from overheads so its easy for an opponent to guess they are coming

- His headbutt is required for his best combos so that is also easy to see coming

- His combos are also short and predictable L+H's or vice versa




So no. Heavy classes are NOT a problem in this game at the moment.

Where did you get so absurd? Is this serious? :confused:
Conqueror is just the most OP class in the game!

Antonioj26
05-31-2017, 02:31 AM
Of all the issues in the game right now I can safely tell you that the Heavy classes are not one of them.


Conqueror

- The single worst hero in the game at the moment. So much so that he is receiving a rework soon according to the Devs.

- Lowest potential damage of all heavies

- His most powerful move is the single most telegraphed move in the game other than the Shugoki Grab

- He is easily picked apart by assassins which are the most popular class at the moment

- His shield bash is his greatest weapon and even it can be easily dodged unless he hits you into a wall.


Shugoki

- His armor is shredded by ANYBODY who has a quick One Two punch so he can't make use of it

- His armor takes time to come back so any decent player will keep it off of him

- He possesses the slowest sprint speed

- Slowest attack speed

- Most easily parried attacks in the game

- His grab is the single most telegraphed and easily dodged move in the game and if he misses it removes a LARGE portion of his health

- His One-Shot requires him to be on the brink of death

- His stun knocks his opponent out of attack range

- He has an abysmally slow guard switch speed

- Has the least amount of combos in the game


Warlord

While being easily the best heavy and one of the better classes in the game he has his own shortcomings. Not claiming he is bad by ANY means. Just saying he isn't perfect.

- His best attacks come from overheads so its easy for an opponent to guess they are coming

- His headbutt is required for his best combos so that is also easy to see coming

- His combos are also short and predictable L+H's or vice versa




So no. Heavy classes are NOT a problem in this game at the moment.

Lol what? Warlord is the best character in the game with only shin maybe being the only one who contends. His combos are more than enough, people past a certain skill level don't bother with combos because they are free parries. Lights as fast as pks. UI on heavies. 500 ms unblockable with guaranteed damAge. Best throw in the game. Unblockable stance. Fast guard stance change. Stam drain parry. A fast zone that takes a full bar. High health pool. His one weakness is his range but he really has no trouble closing the gap between his head butt and zone.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-31-2017, 02:35 AM
Lol what? Warlord is the best character in the game with only shin maybe being the only one who contends. His combos are more than enough, people past a certain skill level don't bother with combos because they are free parries. Lights as fast as pks. UI on heavies. 500 ms unblockable with guaranteed damAge. Best throw in the game. Unblockable stance. Fast guard stance change. Stam drain parry. A fast zone that takes a full bar. High health pool. His one weakness is his range but he really has no trouble closing the gap between his head butt and zone.

Did you miss the part where I LITERALLY said


While being easily the best heavy and one of the better classes in the game

Antonioj26
05-31-2017, 02:37 AM
Did you miss the part where I LITERALLY said

Nope I saw that you said he's one of the better classes but has his own shortcomings and the reasons you gave were all bad/wrong.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-31-2017, 02:45 AM
Nope I saw that you said he's one of the better classes but has his own shortcomings and the reasons you gave were all bad/wrong.

Then I am sorry you disagree with my opinion.


But to me those are all the things I find easy about facing him. Different playstyles and viewpoints I guess.

CandleInTheDark
05-31-2017, 04:40 AM
I've never actually found warlord a problem >.> oh a few beat me but nine times in ten I figure it was something I did wrong. PK I dodge them, warden I feint or bash them, nobushi i hidden stance and poke them to death, berserker I outwork them, conqueror I either parry or get the timing that bit better and land the shot off the parry.

S0Mi_xD
05-31-2017, 05:29 AM
Of all the issues in the game right now I can safely tell you that the Heavy classes are not one of them.

Conqueror

- The single worst hero in the game at the moment. So much so that he is receiving a rework soon according to the Devs.
- Lowest potential damage of all heavies
- His most powerful move is the single most telegraphed move in the game other than the Shugoki Grab
- He is easily picked apart by assassins which are the most popular class at the moment
- His shield bash is his greatest weapon and even it can be easily dodgedunless he hits you into a wall.

Shugoki

- His armor is shredded by ANYBODY who has a quick One Two punch so he can't make use of it
- His armor takes time to come back so any decent player will keep it off of him
- He possesses the slowest sprint speed
- Slowest attack speed
- Most easily parried attacks in the game
- His grab is the single most telegraphed and easily dodged move in the game and if he misses it removes a LARGE portion of his health
- His One-Shot requires him to be on the brink of death
- His stun knocks his opponent out of attack range
- He has an abysmally slow guard switch speed
- Has the least amount of combos in the game

Warlord

While being easily the best heavy and one of the better classes in the game he has his own shortcomings. Not claiming he is bad by ANY means. Just saying he isn't perfect.

- His best attacks come from overheads so its easy for an opponent to guess they are coming
- His headbutt is required for his best combos so that is also easy to see coming
- His combos are also short and predictable L+H's or vice versa

So no. Heavy classes are NOT a problem in this game at the moment.

Red = completly disagree
Orange = disagree to a certain degree
Green = Agree + want to give a comment to this.
Not colored = agree

From the Point of View of an Berserker Main, Conqu Second, and for some variety Valk, Orochi, Shugoki, Raider player (also having some experience with Kensei, Warlord, Warden and PK, but i don't play them anymore), i do agree with you, that heavy classes are not a problem in this game.

About Conqueror:

As a Conqu second, i do think that Conqu is REALLY strong, the problem if you wanna play him to his highest potential is:
- you need to be able to build a certain pressure through sheer dominance, to give your enemy the feeling that "You are the perfect defence, the wall that will crush his existence"
-> i do call this playstyle "passive-aggressive"
- a very reactive gameplay
and some other points but i don't know how to explain it now
in short:
Conqueror is one of the most tryhard Chars, similar to Berserker.

- About the lowest potential dmg of all heavies, i do not agree 100 % with it, sure he has the lowest basic dmg on heavies, but he doesn't have any dmg fall of on combos.
As an example, berserkers Basic is 33 but in combos his heavy drops to 20, Berserker lights: 17 basic and combo (looks like buffed from 9 to 12 not long ago, secretly)
Conqu: 25 dmg basic and combo 25, same for lights: allways 12

- Also, assassins are those char who have most problems against my Conqueror :D i do pick them apart ;)

- I do not agree that Shieldbash is his "greatest" weapon but it is his only real offensive tool.

I do think Conqu can be easy fixed without a rework, i do well with him.

About Shugoki:

- There are heros i can parry easier than shugoki sometimes, but i think is a more subjective point :D

- If you mean Oni- Charge with his stun, then yes ... they just took one of his tools and made it useless.... you don't get anything from it, not even stamina dmg o.O

- Least amount of combos? So as far as i know you play berserker, so you should know, that berserker has only 2 combos ;P ?
(correct me if you mean something different with combos)

About Warlord:

- About being predictable or not, this has not much to do with the Hero, his moveset and which attacks are his best, it's about the person who plays the Hero.

- It's the same problem i have with orochi Players, they are so fixed on Top lights and Zone, and other people aswell, they think i will go for the "best attack", but the moment someone thinks i gonna do a top light, i just do a side light, or Gb, or something else... just mix ups :D

CoyoteXStarrk
05-31-2017, 06:09 AM
Red = completly disagree
Orange = disagree to a certain degree
Green = Agree + want to give a comment to this.
Not colored = agree

From the Point of View of an Berserker Main, Conqu Second, and for some variety Valk, Orochi, Shugoki, Raider player (also having some experience with Kensei, Warlord, Warden and PK, but i don't play them anymore), i do agree with you, that heavy classes are not a problem in this game.

About Conqueror:

As a Conqu second, i do think that Conqu is REALLY strong, the problem if you wanna play him to his highest potential is:
- you need to be able to build a certain pressure through sheer dominance, to give your enemy the feeling that "You are the perfect defence, the wall that will crush his existence"
-> i do call this playstyle "passive-aggressive"
- a very reactive gameplay
and some other points but i don't know how to explain it now
in short:
Conqueror is one of the most tryhard Chars, similar to Berserker.

- About the lowest potential dmg of all heavies, i do not agree 100 % with it, sure he has the lowest basic dmg on heavies, but he doesn't have any dmg fall of on combos.
As an example, berserkers Basic is 33 but in combos his heavy drops to 20, Berserker lights: 17 basic and combo (looks like buffed from 9 to 12 not long ago, secretly)
Conqu: 25 dmg basic and combo 25, same for lights: allways 12

- Also, assassins are those char who have most problems against my Conqueror :D i do pick them apart ;)

- I do not agree that Shieldbash is his "greatest" weapon but it is his only real offensive tool.

I do think Conqu can be easy fixed without a rework, i do well with him.

About Shugoki:

- There are heros i can parry easier than shugoki sometimes, but i think is a more subjective point :D

- If you mean Oni- Charge with his stun, then yes ... they just took one of his tools and made it useless.... you don't get anything from it, not even stamina dmg o.O

- Least amount of combos? So as far as i know you play berserker, so you should know, that berserker has only 2 combos ;P ?
(correct me if you mean something different with combos)

About Warlord:

- About being predictable or not, this has not much to do with the Hero, his moveset and which attacks are his best, it's about the person who plays the Hero.

- It's the same problem i have with orochi Players, they are so fixed on Top lights and Zone, and other people aswell, they think i will go for the "best attack", but the moment someone thinks i gonna do a top light, i just do a side light, or Gb, or something else... just mix ups :D

I actually find all of this 100% reasonable and can see your point of on each disagreement you had with what I said.

I am also a Conqueror second behind my Zerker and I play him more as a support character than someone who tries to dominate the game. I mostly just pick a teammate and follow them around to help them gank other players, take objective or clear out minions. So the way I play him might be making my view on him a bit skewed. I just find his damage so low compared to other heroes in the game overall. Especially considering his wind-up move is the hardest hitting move, but all the world can see when you are gonna use it and simply back away.


I can see your confusion on the combo thing as well. To me a combo is a series of moves. All of his are 2 hits basically unless I am forgetting one. Meanwhile somebody like the Beserker can use mix-up like spins to lead into multi-hit combos and she even has an "Infinite" combo that I myself don't use. So to me everything that he does is 2 hits which is hardly a combo in my opinion. So to me he has the least combo potential in the game at in my opinion by my own definition. It also doesn't help that his moves take so long to swing.


Other than that your viewpoints are entirely reasonable.

S0Mi_xD
05-31-2017, 06:27 AM
I actually find all of this 100% reasonable and can see your point of on each disagreement you had with what I said.

I am also a Conqueror second behind my Zerker and I play him more as a support character than someone who tries to dominate the game. I mostly just pick a teammate and follow them around to help them gank other players, take objective or clear out minions. So the way I play him might be making my view on him a bit skewed. I just find his damage so low compared to other heroes in the game overall. Especially considering his wind-up move is the hardest hitting move, but all the world can see when you are gonna use it and simply back away.


I can see your confusion on the combo thing as well. To me a combo is a series of moves. All of his are 2 hits basically unless I am forgetting one. Meanwhile somebody like the Beserker can use mix-up like spins to lead into multi-hit combos and she even has an "Infinite" combo that I myself don't use. So to me everything that he does is 2 hits which is hardly a combo in my opinion. So to me he has the least combo potential in the game at in my opinion by my own definition. It also doesn't help that his moves take so long to swing.


Other than that your viewpoints are entirely reasonable.

Ok :D, i only talked about my 1v1, 2v2 playstyle with conqu.

You are right in many points aswell, also when i play 4v4s with my friends i always tend to be more supportive than aggressive with Conqu, because it is hard to handle more PPL at the same time for Conqu, and thats because of his low raw dmg paired with his medium speed.
In 1v1s i know that i can concentrate on just one enemy :) .... yeah ... his charging attack definitly needs a hyperarmor ... it would make it more usefull in 4v4s because most people not focused that much on parry etc like in 1v1s and also in 1v1 conqu could pull of good trades.


Ah ok, if you say it this way, then i totaly agree with you ^^
The problem with shugoki here is, the mix of his relative slow attacks and low staminapool / hight stamia consume.
You can pull of some sick mix ups with him, but you will be instant out of stamina ... so it is very risky to play more aggressive with him, even if he should be played aggresive because he is build around his Armor...

Also, if you want - add me in PS: S0Mi_xD (the 0 is a zero)

CoyoteXStarrk
05-31-2017, 06:34 AM
Also, if you want - add me in PS: S0Mi_xD (the 0 is a zero)

Will do man, but don't tell anybody. Playing with other people is apparently the devil according to some people lol

Antonioj26
05-31-2017, 06:40 AM
Will do man, but don't tell anybody. Playing with other people is apparently the devil according to some people lol

Not sure where you get that from, I play with somi, alustar, savage cabbage, and killuminati regularly. I've even played with mud too, and now we have a mutual respect for eachother even though we both think the other is wrong about everything.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-31-2017, 06:48 AM
Not sure where you get that from, I play with somi, alustar, savage cabbage, and killuminati regularly. I've even played with mud too, and now we have a mutual respect for eachother even though we both think the other is wrong about everything.

Ego and Pwnet think premades are unfair and should be frowned upon. Also that they are the sign of bad players. Go look in the Warriors den thread.

Antonioj26
05-31-2017, 06:52 AM
Ego and Pwnet think premades are unfair and should be frowned upon. Also that they are the sign of bad players. Go look in the Warriors den thread.

That's pretty dumb but pwnet is pretty reasonable and I think you may be leaving out a bit of his nuance. I mostly play these guys for friendly duels with the occassiaonal brawl or 4s but I don't think I've ever done a full group of 4 with them.

S0Mi_xD
05-31-2017, 06:56 AM
Not sure where you get that from, I play with somi, alustar, savage cabbage, and killuminati regularly. I've even played with mud too, and now we have a mutual respect for eachother even though we both think the other is wrong about everything.

WHAT!!! Savage cabbage is on ps aswell ? :D I need to pm him ^^

Yep, Antonio is right :)
We both fall together by the ears as i did a Tier list thread.
So we both desided to clear this with some fights :D
Actually it was fun, we talked abit even if my spelled english is horrible, and we understood each other better.

Antonioj26
05-31-2017, 06:58 AM
WHAT!!! Savage cabbage is on ps aswell ? :D I need to pm him ^^

Yep, Antonio is right :)
We both fall together by the ears as i did a Tier list thread.
So we both desided to clear this with some fights :D
Actually it was fun, we talked abit even if my spelled english is horrible, and we understood each other better.

Yeah savage is probably the best one I've fought so far. He's tough, I feel like he's truly mastered LB.

CaynAldan
05-31-2017, 03:13 PM
Top heavy best attack of warlord? It's a good attack but i prefer his superior block lights. It's like a deflect without any risk, after that, you can do your top heavy much easier.

I would be very happy if deflects works more similar to superior block... ^_^