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View Full Version : To become an esport, this game needs actual FRIENDLY FIRE!



Aku...
05-30-2017, 02:16 PM
I love this game, but I've always felt it could do with a lot of improvements

One of which is Friendly fire that actually hurts, I would have thought people would have started seeing my understanding after three months and stop being little wusses.

right now the game is pretty much all about your skill, and using exploits. Coordination isn't neccessary in this game because you aren't rewarded at all for it, both in xp (or a game mode for it) or fights. revenge is now nerfed a load so it's very hard to win 1v2+ fights, at least against competant players who know how to parry.

Think about it this way, in elimination (not counting dominion since that's a game mode that has objectives but is pretty bland now and I find only lower level gamers play this game mode to get the grips of the game). 4v4 you need to kill your guy so that you can kill the next guy, but what I find annoying is once a player has killed their enemy, that player's team is at an immediate advantage, not just because they are one down, but that victorious player will go and run for boosts (they've just gotta bloody remove attack and defense boosts), and if this guy runs up behind another person 1v1ing the victim will most certainly die before the guy can even try to activate revenge. or you keep on using shoving moves to stop him from attack while others keep striking him.

this doesn't happen every game (for you have players who see that this is a cheap way to win), but if you looked at a tournament setting where people only cared about winning, then you'll see this and other possible exploits (one of the previous tournaments involved to shugokis just oni charging each other hoping to get lucky with it).

Who would want to watch that? that's boring as ****

I was hoping that they would actually encourage you to train in coordination with friends, like in other games, but it would be wasted with little to no friendly fire, revenge (this really isn't much of a solution) spamable shove moves and gaurd break. There is soo much potential to see amazing plays. I can imagine many, but all of it is blocked by the thought that people would just kill themselves, morons would, masters would use it, that's what WE NEED!

Right now in it's current state, this game being an esport is a joke, I've been saying this since they released it. I have played this game for nearly 300 hours and the only thrill you really get is when you either face someone who knows all the tricks like you or being or winning a 1v2+ without revenge. But this is extremely rare.

I'm saying this now, only morons(or noobs) would say having actual friendly fire would ruin the game, do you know why? because they are afraid they can't just attack in any direction anymore, they have to be aware of and coordinate with other teamates (LIKE OTHER GAMES!) or are afraid of dying (well if that's the case form a team that is competant enough or have trained to not do that then! instead of being matched with random people)

Right now the skill cap for this game is pretty lower than other fighters like street fighter, mortal kombat etc which require you to learn long combos to really get good, this doesn't have that, instead what it has is a large area of teamwork possibilties which cannot be explored with friendly fire not on

PUT FRIENDLY FIRE ON! AT LEAST FOR A NEW GAME MODE FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T WUSSES

also isn't anyone tired of enemies bombing or catapulting themselves to get a kill and walk out fine?

Kraxers
05-30-2017, 02:23 PM
I play this game it is not like complete trash as people claim it to be even though it has flaws but imo this game will never be a strong esport.

Aku...
05-30-2017, 02:31 PM
The only way I feel that we can get ubisoft to change it (or add new game modes with this in which is just as good)
is if we agree as a community on it

I will explain the best I can with anyone who thinks it would be bad in anyway, but please at least be a total of rep 5, tired of dealing with morons, or people who don't know what the game well enough

Xinlyfenne
05-30-2017, 02:32 PM
The problem here is that people just don't care. Yes, in eSports they will, but in a normal pub match, almost no one cares -- about their teammates.

I already see people bombing the crap out of each other and swinging weapons into the backs of their teammates. They won't care about their teammate's well being; in fact, they only care if they get the kill or not.

Now, this won't apply to everyone. But, for the majority, it does. So increasing FF (Friendly Fire) to, let's say, normal damage, wouldn't discourage teammates from damaging each other. It would actually encourage griefing even more. Some trolls will "Catapult" their teammates to death for fun.

A good solution -- I've mentioned this before -- is to, instead, add reflective/mirrored damage. If one is going to take damage, from attacking one's own team, that will discourage the player from attacking one's own team. Put the damage on them and now they will care. It solves the "attacking teammates" problem as well as the moral "should I give two ****s about my teammates" problem.


Note: The other solution I have is to put a steel/exp reduction correlating with the amount of damage you cause to your teammates (inspired from WoT). The problem with this one is that it will not effect eSports at all.

SetMySail4Fail
05-30-2017, 02:39 PM
Aside from the technical issues this games community is getting smaller every day, so I guess even if this game had the chance to become an esport, the audience would be way too small.

Krell80
05-30-2017, 02:40 PM
A good solution -- I've mentioned this before -- is to, instead, add reflective/mirrored damage. If one is going to take damage, from attacking one's own team, that will discourage the player from attacking one's own team. Put the damage on them and now they will care. It solves the "attacking teammates" problem as well as the moral "should I give two ****s about my teammates" problem.

Agree.

Lyskir
05-30-2017, 02:42 PM
first of all, they have to fix the connection issues and balance

Capoupacap
05-30-2017, 03:31 PM
there is friendly fire and basically a hit will stop your attack. People that play together without disrupting their teammate are much more dangerous than the gank fest group.

bmason1000
05-30-2017, 04:23 PM
there is friendly fire and basically a hit will stop your attack. People that play together without disrupting their teammate are much more dangerous than the gank fest group.

Dude, for real. Happens all the time. I've got a good thing going, knockin my enemy around, kill strikes comin down and BAM i get valk swept or kicked or bashed or something. So annoying. I've been shinobi slide tackled by teammates so many times lately. A few times, i was their actual intended target as well. Getting me out of the way so they can take the kill or get to a boost or cap an objective before me.

bmason1000
05-30-2017, 04:29 PM
I used to be opposed to upping friendly fire, probably because i don't my teammates killing me all the time, but i think the supporting crowd have won me over. It would definitely do away with the "I'm trapped in a corner by 3 guys, might as well put the controller down" situation. They'll either stop the indefensible barrage of attacks or kill eachother and even the odds, ending the indefensible barrage of attacks. I like it.

Danioku
05-30-2017, 04:36 PM
To become an esport, this game needs ALL just like Tetris or Barbie: Fashion Pack Games

Dizzy4213
05-30-2017, 04:53 PM
Friendly Fire already exists, not to mention your attacks also interrupt your teammates if you hit them. Why isn't that enough?

I'll never understand why people want 100% Friendly Fire. In a game like this, with a community as toxic as this, it's just asking for trouble. I'm almost certain that the people who keep advocating for this have never experienced just how ****ty Friendly Fire can be. Being constantly trolled and killed by your own teammates is one of the most frustrating things to deal with. And no, implementing a stupid little ban to act as a deterrent for such behaviour is laughable. I don't think you realise just how far trolls will go to ruin your day.

Who the **** cares about eSports? This game is years from ever being eSports ready. Who wants to watch a staring contest between two turtles? A game of chess is more interesting than 'high-level' For Honor.

Tirik22x
05-30-2017, 04:57 PM
I love this game, but I've always felt it could do with a lot of improvements

One of which is Friendly fire that actually hurts, I would have thought people would have started seeing my understanding after three months and stop being little wusses.

right now the game is pretty much all about your skill, and using exploits. Coordination isn't neccessary in this game because you aren't rewarded at all for it, both in xp (or a game mode for it) or fights. revenge is now nerfed a load so it's very hard to win 1v2+ fights, at least against competant players who know how to parry.

Think about it this way, in elimination (not counting dominion since that's a game mode that has objectives but is pretty bland now and I find only lower level gamers play this game mode to get the grips of the game). 4v4 you need to kill your guy so that you can kill the next guy, but what I find annoying is once a player has killed their enemy, that player's team is at an immediate advantage, not just because they are one down, but that victorious player will go and run for boosts (they've just gotta bloody remove attack and defense boosts), and if this guy runs up behind another person 1v1ing the victim will most certainly die before the guy can even try to activate revenge. or you keep on using shoving moves to stop him from attack while others keep striking him.

this doesn't happen every game (for you have players who see that this is a cheap way to win), but if you looked at a tournament setting where people only cared about winning, then you'll see this and other possible exploits (one of the previous tournaments involved to shugokis just oni charging each other hoping to get lucky with it).

Who would want to watch that? that's boring as ****

I was hoping that they would actually encourage you to train in coordination with friends, like in other games, but it would be wasted with little to no friendly fire, revenge (this really isn't much of a solution) spamable shove moves and gaurd break. There is soo much potential to see amazing plays. I can imagine many, but all of it is blocked by the thought that people would just kill themselves, morons would, masters would use it, that's what WE NEED!

Right now in it's current state, this game being an esport is a joke, I've been saying this since they released it. I have played this game for nearly 300 hours and the only thrill you really get is when you either face someone who knows all the tricks like you or being or winning a 1v2+ without revenge. But this is extremely rare.

I'm saying this now, only morons(or noobs) would say having actual friendly fire would ruin the game, do you know why? because they are afraid they can't just attack in any direction anymore, they have to be aware of and coordinate with other teamates (LIKE OTHER GAMES!) or are afraid of dying (well if that's the case form a team that is competant enough or have trained to not do that then! instead of being matched with random people)

Right now the skill cap for this game is pretty lower than other fighters like street fighter, mortal kombat etc which require you to learn long combos to really get good, this doesn't have that, instead what it has is a large area of teamwork possibilties which cannot be explored with friendly fire not on

PUT FRIENDLY FIRE ON! AT LEAST FOR A NEW GAME MODE FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T WUSSES

also isn't anyone tired of enemies bombing or catapulting themselves to get a kill and walk out fine?

Completely agree

Existentialmeme
05-30-2017, 05:10 PM
I love this game, but I've always felt it could do with a lot of improvements

One of which is Friendly fire that actually hurts, I would have thought people would have started seeing my understanding after three months and stop being little wusses.

right now the game is pretty much all about your skill, and using exploits. Coordination isn't neccessary in this game because you aren't rewarded at all for it, both in xp (or a game mode for it) or fights. revenge is now nerfed a load so it's very hard to win 1v2+ fights, at least against competant players who know how to parry.

Think about it this way, in elimination (not counting dominion since that's a game mode that has objectives but is pretty bland now and I find only lower level gamers play this game mode to get the grips of the game). 4v4 you need to kill your guy so that you can kill the next guy, but what I find annoying is once a player has killed their enemy, that player's team is at an immediate advantage, not just because they are one down, but that victorious player will go and run for boosts (they've just gotta bloody remove attack and defense boosts), and if this guy runs up behind another person 1v1ing the victim will most certainly die before the guy can even try to activate revenge. or you keep on using shoving moves to stop him from attack while others keep striking him.

this doesn't happen every game (for you have players who see that this is a cheap way to win), but if you looked at a tournament setting where people only cared about winning, then you'll see this and other possible exploits (one of the previous tournaments involved to shugokis just oni charging each other hoping to get lucky with it).

Who would want to watch that? that's boring as ****

I was hoping that they would actually encourage you to train in coordination with friends, like in other games, but it would be wasted with little to no friendly fire, revenge (this really isn't much of a solution) spamable shove moves and gaurd break. There is soo much potential to see amazing plays. I can imagine many, but all of it is blocked by the thought that people would just kill themselves, morons would, masters would use it, that's what WE NEED!

Right now in it's current state, this game being an esport is a joke, I've been saying this since they released it. I have played this game for nearly 300 hours and the only thrill you really get is when you either face someone who knows all the tricks like you or being or winning a 1v2+ without revenge. But this is extremely rare.

I'm saying this now, only morons(or noobs) would say having actual friendly fire would ruin the game, do you know why? because they are afraid they can't just attack in any direction anymore, they have to be aware of and coordinate with other teamates (LIKE OTHER GAMES!) or are afraid of dying (well if that's the case form a team that is competant enough or have trained to not do that then! instead of being matched with random people)

Right now the skill cap for this game is pretty lower than other fighters like street fighter, mortal kombat etc which require you to learn long combos to really get good, this doesn't have that, instead what it has is a large area of teamwork possibilties which cannot be explored with friendly fire not on

PUT FRIENDLY FIRE ON! AT LEAST FOR A NEW GAME MODE FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T WUSSES

also isn't anyone tired of enemies bombing or catapulting themselves to get a kill and walk out fine?

Completely agree as well, at the very least in future ranked mode, friendly fire should most definitely be implemented. With a kick vote by the team on people who trolls will keep the trolls out of ranked mode, like if the rest 3 people vote to kick the troll, he will be booted out of the game and receive a temporary ban from ranked mode.

FightingFerrets
05-30-2017, 05:28 PM
The problem here is that people just don't care. Yes, in eSports they will, but in a normal pub match, almost no one cares -- about their teammates.

I already see people bombing the crap out of each other and swinging weapons into the backs of their teammates. They won't care about their teammate's well being; in fact, they only care if they get the kill or not.

Now, this won't apply to everyone. But, for the majority, it does. So increasing FF (Friendly Fire) to, let's say, normal damage, wouldn't discourage teammates from damaging each other. It would actually encourage griefing even more. Some trolls will "Catapult" their teammates to death for fun.

A good solution -- I've mentioned this before -- is to, instead, add reflective/mirrored damage. If one is going to take damage, from attacking one's own team, that will discourage the player from attacking one's own team. Put the damage on them and now they will care. It solves the "attacking teammates" problem as well as the moral "should I give two ****s about my teammates" problem.


Note: The other solution I have is to put a steel/exp reduction correlating with the amount of damage you cause to your teammates (inspired from WoT). The problem with this one is that it will not effect eSports at all.

Yes...this!! ^^^ Mirror damage would be the way to go. But I'd leave feats out of it for now. Bombs and Catapults would be a suicide attempt when tossing into a crowd. Tossing a catapult or bomb onto a situation where one of my teammates is getting ganked is pretty satisfying....

DrExtrem
05-30-2017, 05:49 PM
Rook mine (tm)

Existentialmeme
05-30-2017, 05:53 PM
let's all take a moment to remember the teamkillers in Rainbow Six: Siege.

What happens to teamkillers in Rainbow Six: Siege? I don't have the game

DrExtrem
05-30-2017, 06:03 PM
What happens to teamkillers in Rainbow Six: Siege? I don't have the game

Afaik - nothing serious ..

Xinlyfenne
05-30-2017, 06:08 PM
Reword that - how bad was the team killing in R6?

DrExtrem
05-30-2017, 06:46 PM
Reword that - how bad was the team killing in R6?

So bad, I got a full refund from Microsoft.

Xtendead
05-30-2017, 07:52 PM
Enabling 100% Friendly Fire to make it an eSport you probably attend only on twitch as a Follower, while the majority of the players care sh1t about their Teammates and even kill them to get the killing blow on the enemy as well, is... well... just dumb! Even right now they try to stagger you with hits, HOPING you are dying. Everyone who demands 100% FF is either not playing the same game as I do, or underestimates the dullness of most players here.

Soul_Assassin85
05-30-2017, 08:32 PM
the game has lots of bugs and problems right now to even be considered for a esport.. and many people are pissed... until they not fix everything is bad right now, is a waste of energy to even think to make this game a esport

CrunaCross
05-30-2017, 08:51 PM
this is not esports material.
Not only because of balance issues, because those can be tweaked.

But mostly unintuitive, simplistic game modes, without having something more original, makes this game not exactly suitable for esports

cragar212
05-30-2017, 10:03 PM
Fh is about as far from esports as can be. Maybe in a few years when they make FH2 it will be improved.

I've watched a ton of FH tournies snd usually they are boring. I''l nvr forget the Shugoki meta :(

Here is a video of combo breaker from the weekend. Big tourny with about 10 games with winner pools around $15,000 per game. This is Injustice 2 which was out about 10 days at he time. Pretty big difference from FH. Fighting starts about 3min in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MukDJQZPm7U&t=2137s

Vingrask
05-30-2017, 10:14 PM
Aside from the technical issues this games community is getting smaller every day, so I guess even if this game had the chance to become an esport, the audience would be way too small.

Like any fighting game out there. People are just realizing they are not the kind of player who can evolve inside this game's niche.

Every more complex feature/hero For Honor get, less of those players will stay.

Most of you bought a hack'n slash, but For Honor has a lot of elements of a fighting game that create barriers for "smash buttons" players evolve. The example of friendly fire is enough to show it. How many times you aren't interrupted or screwd by a team mate even today? People on 4v4 just smash buttons, there is no fight there, no tactic, reason I hate play those modes.

Maybe with the in-game tournaments we can see 4v4 modes evolve somehow, but if it happen, wait more and more players to leave, until new ones, willing to learn the "new" fighting game, come.

MarkedElite
05-30-2017, 10:33 PM
This would destroy characters like the Shugoki when he picks up people or the lawbringer when he lifts people over his head.

EDG_Avocado
05-30-2017, 11:06 PM
esport LUL.

Mia.Nora
05-31-2017, 12:49 AM
For Honor has only its great concept and brilliant graphics/animations that keeps it alive(?).

Graphics dont matter at all in ESports, and concept itself does not matter either but only the success of execution. For Honor is probably the poorest development outcome I have seen in last 20 years, in terms netcode, balance and flow of combat.