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TexasCaesar
05-30-2017, 08:05 AM
Don't read if you don't like extreme political discussion!

When I first saw the trailers for this game, I was filled with a bit of dread. I'm a far-Right Appalachian and a jack-Mormon, and my first thought was, "****ing hell, they're making another game that's demonizing my culture." After seeing some more trailers, though, I feel reassured that the game will be respectful in its treatment of rural American culture.

That said, I thought it would be good to start a (sane, polite) discussion of this little controversy here.

See, I think a lot of "outsiders" (which I guess here means Left-wingers, urbanites, non-white folks, non-Christians) don't really get why folks like myself got upset, and are worried. From our perspective, the media has a tendency to portray us as being villainous, untrustworthy, while also promoting other cultures as more virtuous. Essentially, they do the same thing that you accuse us of doing to you.

Now, who does this more? Does the media demonize the Left, non-Christian religions, other races, and foreigners more, or does it demonize the Right, Christians, Whites, and Americans more? I can't prove my position, but I would argue that in the present day, the balance is more towards the latter. Developers shoe-horn diversity into games where it doesn't make sense, like Battlefield 1 with it's Black Scouts (and, for the Russians, women!). Villains tend to be White, and while heroes also tend to be White, they'll likely be allied with token minorities.

Of course, you may disagree. My point isn't to try to convince you, just to explain my position.

So, as a rural, Right-wing American Christian, my BS alarm starts going off as I see another game being made that (intentionally or not) may promote a negative and untrue depiction of my culture. Especially at a time when most of the violence in the world is being caused by other groups (Muslims in the Middle East and Europe, Blacks and Leftists rioting in the US). I think, "Why can't they make a game based on an area with actual problems." Why not have a Middle Eastern Far Cry set in a place based off Afghanistan, or maybe one that's like Ukraine.

I don't really know how to conclude... those are just my thoughts on it. I like that one of the main allies is going to be a mainstream Christian preacher. I like that you're tasked with helping the locals fight off the cult, rather than the locals being the issue themselves. I don't think the game's going to be a problem. But that's the sort of feelings I, and a lot of other people, had when all we had to go off of was the rumors. I think that's why so many people reacted angrily.

mistados
05-30-2017, 08:44 AM
I think it's ridiculous. It's a video game for heavens sake..

If people can't take it on that simple fact, they need to get a life!

TexasCaesar
05-30-2017, 08:52 AM
I think it's ridiculous. It's a video game for heavens sake..

If people can't take it on that simple fact, they need to get a life!

That's a very lazy and childish attitude.

mistados
05-30-2017, 08:53 AM
That's a very lazy and childish attitude.

No, it's common sense. It's a fictional video game! LOL

Steve64b
05-30-2017, 03:42 PM
Ha! Here's another perspective for you - that of an international Outsider from The Netherlands, who has no clue who you are, nor your cultures! :)

I've never been to America, and my whole image of it is based on whatever I am fed by media. And the only context I may have, is you using the word 'rural'. I assume there are stereotypical cultural similarities between rural US and NL: easy-going people, no fuss, speech accents, fires, fireworks, good food and alcohol. And there's probably more focus on guns in rural America, we don't have those here.

Simply put, I see 2 factions in the game: the locals, and the cultists. Culture-wise, the latter differs by fanaticism and violence (their actions). Part of the residents are Christians too, so religion-wise they may overlap with the cultists.

You mention "demonization" of "your culture" by the media. Can you be a bit more specific?

mistados
05-30-2017, 04:00 PM
When I think rural America, I think these guys..lol

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/d1/72/01/d17201f379b33378d80e0733a243e8b9.jpg

EdEddnED-E
05-30-2017, 04:25 PM
"****ing hell, they're making another game that's demonizing my culture."

So, as a rural, Right-wing American Christian, my BS alarm starts going off as I see another game being made that (intentionally or not) may promote a negative and untrue depiction of my culture. Especially at a time when most of the violence in the world is being caused by other groups (Muslims in the Middle East and Europe, Blacks and Leftists rioting in the US). I think, "Why can't they make a game based on an area with actual problems." Why not have a Middle Eastern Far Cry set in a place based off Afghanistan, or maybe one that's like Ukraine.



First off, thankyou for starting this thread in a respecful manner unlike some others in this forum. :)

What game are you talking about there?

As for your question: They could. But that would be doing exactly what you and certain other people are complaining about. Do you want Ubisoft to direct all our attention to what's going on in the Middle East, all the terror attacks in Europe? If they did only then could you accuse them of having a political agenda or showing disrespect to a certain religion since it's not a game directly based on war (Battlefield, COD etc). But even then your claims would be based on a 'fictional' work, as games are always fictional. Far Cry games have always been set in fictional areas of real world locations, and the enemy type/ identity has always been based on each given area. Since they usually allow you to make your own choices, they can never be a true depiction of what is in real life no matter how closely it resemembles it. That's how you need to try to underdstand it, even if in this case that games story/ setting somewhat revolves around something important or close to you to you. That's why games always have the disclaimer at the beginning.

Just a question did you play any of the other Far Cry games?

Fallen-Champ
05-30-2017, 04:28 PM
Don't read if you don't like extreme political discussion!

Please read the forum rules they state not to post Religious or Political views, you state at the start of your post not to read if you don't like extreme political discussions - Sorry but this is not the place for that it should be taken elsewhere.

EdEddnED-E
05-30-2017, 04:33 PM
Please read the forum rules they state not to post Religious or Political views, you state at the start of your post not to read if you don't like extreme political discussions - Sorry but this is not the place for that it should be taken elsewhere.

Didn't even know that, though i'd say it's for the best, most people don't know how to respond or even start this types of conversations without it getting out of hand

strigoi1958
05-30-2017, 04:37 PM
To the OP... there is no controversy here, but there is a perceived controversy which I hope you have overcome...

In the world there are only 2 kinds of people Good people and Bad people.... it is very possible for them to exist in every religion, nationality and country in the world. (good and bad) just because bad people may have some similar political or religious or patriotic views as ourselves it does not mean we have to defend them. If someone is in an evil cult and they are murderers and think they can hide behind a fake religious identity, they are wrong regardless of people wanting to defend them because they are in the same, country/ state/ religion or ethnicity.

This is just a game. there is no controversy about any religion, the game is about murderers who pretend to be a religious group.
Do you think we should forgive any murderers who kill peoples sons, daughters, brothers, sister etc... if they say they are a devout christian and god told them to do it? If not then you understand the concept of the game. This is just about good versus evil..... only the evil people need to be offended.

Unfortunately even though it is 2017 and the world is open to global communication and integration... there still exists the 2 worst problems that should have been gone by now... ignorance and intolerance and those 2 things keep hatred alive. That saddens me... especially when people can get upset by not just a video game, but by misinterpreting a video game.

:(

legacyzero
05-30-2017, 04:54 PM
I think American Christianity has done a good enough job of demonizing itself on it's own, but then again, I'm a bleeding heart progressive. From where I'm sitting, I think it's an absolute logical topic to cover, because it s a real thing. The fact that some can't see that, or even deny it, then take offense, and even go so far as to obfuscate their points in their defense, is only validating to me.

History is enough to prove this point alone. Yet the folks defending (the even LOOSELY connected or referenced) material like this, are gleefully declining to realize the facts.

But even if Ubisoft decided to attack the subject head-on, Which they aren't, they should be able to without numbskulls throwing a fit about. That goes for folks both on the Left AND on the right. To me, expression through creativity has to be open and fluid. Story-telling is one of the most valuable things we have, and if we continue to most the goalpost on what is socially acceptable in story-telling, ideas stop being compelling, interesting, and potential for timelessness.

It's SUPPOSED to start conversations. But unfortunately, now the only conversations we get are of offended pearl clutching, and outrage.

Even more ironic, the Right is now guilty of what they accuse the Left of. Outrage culture. Congrats: we all live in glass houses.

angstik
05-30-2017, 05:06 PM
When I think rural America, I think these guys..lol

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/d1/72/01/d17201f379b33378d80e0733a243e8b9.jpg

What are the "monsters" in this show? Monster trucks? Bigfoot? Or just these guys?

Anyways, this kind of thread is becoming rather annoying. We did not have the half of these controversies when outlast 2 came out, and its depiction of religion is clearly more disturbing than FC5's deviant cult.

usmovers_02
05-30-2017, 05:13 PM
I've been a mod for several other forums and if it was my decision I would not lock this topic as the "controversy" is related to the game and it was a respectful and thought out post even though I disagree with it.

I mean we're taking about a work of fiction here. Fiction about an extreme cult, not about general Christians. What happens in the story does not reflect the views of Ubisoft or even the writers. For an instance family guy frequently makes fun of the LGBT+ community. But is Seth McFarlane a bigot? Quite the opposite. He's very much in favor of equal rights. The story does not represent anything but the characters within unless specifically stated otherwise.

Farcryisdead
05-30-2017, 05:25 PM
It will increase sales of the game.

HorTyS
05-30-2017, 06:42 PM
Now, who does this more? Does the media demonize the Left, non-Christian religions, other races, and foreigners more, or does it demonize the Right, Christians, Whites, and Americans more? I can't prove my position, but I would argue that in the present day, the balance is more towards the latter. Developers shoe-horn diversity into games where it doesn't make sense, like Battlefield 1 with it's Black Scouts (and, for the Russians, women!). Villains tend to be White, and while heroes also tend to be White, they'll likely be allied with token minorities.

Of course, you may disagree. My point isn't to try to convince you, just to explain my position.

So, as a rural, Right-wing American Christian, my BS alarm starts going off as I see another game being made that (intentionally or not) may promote a negative and untrue depiction of my culture. Especially at a time when most of the violence in the world is being caused by other groups (Muslims in the Middle East and Europe, Blacks and Leftists rioting in the US). I think, "Why can't they make a game based on an area with actual problems." Why not have a Middle Eastern Far Cry set in a place based off Afghanistan, or maybe one that's like Ukraine.

I don't really know how to conclude... those are just my thoughts on it. I like that one of the main allies is going to be a mainstream Christian preacher. I like that you're tasked with helping the locals fight off the cult, rather than the locals being the issue themselves. I don't think the game's going to be a problem. But that's the sort of feelings I, and a lot of other people, had when all we had to go off of was the rumors. I think that's why so many people reacted angrily.

First of all, I'd like to say I appreciate that you are able to look at the situation with some objectivity, you said you actually re-watched the trailer, and are able to take a step back, and try to have a bit of perspective about it, not something some of our other new members are willing to do, clearly. As for the "token minorities" the only thing I'd say to that is that anymore you can't have any sort of minority character in a game these days without someone accusing it of tokenism. I'd say it's only weird when it is extremely out of place, not to say there haven't been cases like that, but MT isn't devoid of black people or other races (they just are extremely rare compared to the bigger states & cities obviously)

Setting a Far Cry in Afgahn or the Ukraine would be a bit on the nose and not in keeping with the idea of the franchise. FC doesn't go to places of real-world military conflict... its more subversive, more subtle than that...There are military games that are set in those areas, take alook at the Call of Duty modern warfare games. FC5 definitely is the most topical of the franchise yet, thats for sure, but they've been making this game for over 2 years... 2 years ago I don't think the reaction would've been this over-blown, but things have escalated as far as reactionary trigger culture is concerned, thats for sure...

My last point, in response to your last point, is exactly what you said, people got angry when all they had to go on was rumors. People do not gain perspective before reacting anymore. They hear one thing, or one point of view, and they dig in to the first interpretation of that that they get, and there is no convincing them of any other view on the matter. Its very rare anymore you see someone willing to look at a topic or idea from another point of view, no one is willing to compromise or find a balance of ideas, which, I think, is part of why the political situation is so segregated in our society today... I've been trying to be better about this myself when I realized my own ideals were so heavily influenced by all my friends who I would categorize as mostly left-leaning. I still tend to drift more toward the left on most things, but I'm finding some middle ground with the right on somethings... but just the fact that I'm referring to something as complex as social & political views as something as simple & distinct from one another as the left & right proves that there are not alot of balances between the 2 sides and they are at odds with one another, which is I believe a big part of the problem.


....
Even more ironic, the Right is now guilty of what they accuse the Left of. Outrage culture. Congrats: we all live in glass houses.
Right? Difference is some of us are able to keep our stones in our hands...

What are the "monsters" in this show? Monster trucks? Bigfoot? Or just these guys?

Anyways, this kind of thread is becoming rather annoying. We did not have the half of these controversies when outlast 2 came out, and its depiction of religion is clearly more disturbing than FC5's deviant cult.

Maybe because that game is smaller scale & more independent in nature, the shills & the puppets knew they couldn't really spark enough uproar about it. FC is a much bigger brand and has a much higher profile, so stirring up a contrived controversy over it would get a lot more of a reaction...

mistados
05-30-2017, 09:43 PM
Political correctness gone mad

akilyoung
05-30-2017, 10:50 PM
I wont get into my personal views, but I am sure my avatar speaks for itself...

As for the game, I am honestly VERY excited to play in rural America, as an American. The game looks awesome for a FC premise.

Does the cult thing bother me? no.

Does the cult mimicking Christianity bother me? kinda. Why? because you know that Ubi would never in a MILLION years make a game attacking a cult resembling other religions like islam, judaism, etc.
I think they SHOULD though, to even the tables! Ubi should pull a South Park so to speak, and insult everyone in a way, so the playing field is even! lol.

But seriously, its a video game, if your offended, DONT BUY IT!

I help moderate one of the biggest FC map making community websites (battlemap.net), and the only one I know of that is still up and running with daily posts. Am I get the game? OF COURSE, I have always gotten every FC game since the first one (except FCIP, cause I dont have an XBOX).

battlemap.net is planning on hosting a map making competition, like we used to all the time for FC2-3, for FC5. Working on plans as we speak, but since we know there is an editor still, we would like to get one going in the first week.

LaMOi
05-30-2017, 10:51 PM
Don't read if you don't like extreme political discussion!

When I first saw the trailers for this game, I was filled with a bit of dread. I'm a far-Right Appalachian and a jack-Mormon, and my first thought was, "****ing hell, they're making another game that's demonizing my culture." After seeing some more trailers, though, I feel reassured that the game will be respectful in its treatment of rural American culture.

That said, I thought it would be good to start a (sane, polite) discussion of this little controversy here.

See, I think a lot of "outsiders" (which I guess here means Left-wingers, urbanites, non-white folks, non-Christians) don't really get why folks like myself got upset, and are worried. From our perspective, the media has a tendency to portray us as being villainous, untrustworthy, while also promoting other cultures as more virtuous. Essentially, they do the same thing that you accuse us of doing to you.

Now, who does this more? Does the media demonize the Left, non-Christian religions, other races, and foreigners more, or does it demonize the Right, Christians, Whites, and Americans more? I can't prove my position, but I would argue that in the present day, the balance is more towards the latter. Developers shoe-horn diversity into games where it doesn't make sense, like Battlefield 1 with it's Black Scouts (and, for the Russians, women!). Villains tend to be White, and while heroes also tend to be White, they'll likely be allied with token minorities.

Of course, you may disagree. My point isn't to try to convince you, just to explain my position.

So, as a rural, Right-wing American Christian, my BS alarm starts going off as I see another game being made that (intentionally or not) may promote a negative and untrue depiction of my culture. Especially at a time when most of the violence in the world is being caused by other groups (Muslims in the Middle East and Europe, Blacks and Leftists rioting in the US). I think, "Why can't they make a game based on an area with actual problems." Why not have a Middle Eastern Far Cry set in a place based off Afghanistan, or maybe one that's like Ukraine.

I don't really know how to conclude... those are just my thoughts on it. I like that one of the main allies is going to be a mainstream Christian preacher. I like that you're tasked with helping the locals fight off the cult, rather than the locals being the issue themselves. I don't think the game's going to be a problem. But that's the sort of feelings I, and a lot of other people, had when all we had to go off of was the rumors. I think that's why so many people reacted angrily.

This is NOTHING !


Mass Effect Andromeda - Transgender character........? I mean seriously.

My beef is the shoe-horning highlights political agendas for certain 'chosen' groups deemed worthy.

So even the gay issue effects like 2% of the population and transgender equates even less than that, So why are they 'massive' issues that some how jump to the front of the que?
Although I'm not minimising perhaps some of the difficulties faced by these groups, I'd say there are important issues affecting more sizeable populations that it would seem more appropriate to give a platform to....

Kaide_XIV
05-31-2017, 11:14 AM
So, as a rural, Right-wing American Christian, my BS alarm starts going off as I see another game being made that (intentionally or not) may promote a negative and untrue depiction of my culture. Especially at a time when most of the violence in the world is being caused by other groups (Muslims in the Middle East and Europe, Blacks and Leftists rioting in the US). I think, "Why can't they make a game based on an area with actual problems." Why not have a Middle Eastern Far Cry set in a place based off Afghanistan, or maybe one that's like Ukraine.

I don't really know how to conclude... those are just my thoughts on it. I like that one of the main allies is going to be a mainstream Christian preacher. I like that you're tasked with helping the locals fight off the cult, rather than the locals being the issue themselves. I don't think the game's going to be a problem. But that's the sort of feelings I, and a lot of other people, had when all we had to go off of was the rumors. I think that's why so many people reacted angrily.

Look at the picture below and tell me if you think Ubisoft is mocking Christianity or not....

https://imageshack.com/i/pnmrjSsLp

mistados
05-31-2017, 11:16 AM
Look at the picture below and tell me if you think Ubisoft is mocking Christianity or not....

https://imageshack.com/i/pnmrjSsLp

No

usmovers_02
05-31-2017, 12:36 PM
This is NOTHING !


Mass Effect Andromeda - Transgender character........? I mean seriously.

My beef is the shoe-horning highlights political agendas for certain 'chosen' groups deemed worthy.

So even the gay issue effects like 2% of the population and transgender equates even less than that, So why are they 'massive' issues that some how jump to the front of the que?
Although I'm not minimising perhaps some of the difficulties faced by these groups, I'd say there are important issues affecting more sizeable populations that it would seem more appropriate to give a platform to....

Sigh. TG people are about 1 in 2,000. The average person sees at least one a week without knowing it. There are probably around 2,000 characters in Andromeda. Are you seriously complaining about ONE character very poorly representing the TG community?

Steve64b
05-31-2017, 12:38 PM
the truth is the entire game is a mockery of Jesus Christ and Christians. (...) Even Pastor Jerome the "good" guy.....is murdering people with a gun. Ever heard of "Thou shalt not kill"?
Think to yourself: when Christians act in a way that goes against Christian values, is it because they want to mock Christianity as a religion? Or does "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak" apply?

You seem to regard Christians as people who adhere to the Bible, without straying from it. You seem to think committing a sin is mocking Christianity, rather than an aspect of human nature. Know that there are more motives and intents in life, besides religion.

Ubisoft is not trying to spread lies by claiming Christianity promotes forceful baptisement and having bibles for weapon dispensers. They are telling a fictional story, about a fanatic cult that abuses Christian symbols, and oppresses a Pastor who in turn feels he has nowhere else to turn than to a gun. Because that itself conflicts with his Christian beliefs, it's a sign that he must be desperate.

And concerning the cover art: the Doomsday cult leader is a megalomaniac. He considers himself to be a savior. The Last Supper reference is a powerful way to communicating this visually. It does not mock Jesus or Christians, it is used to illustrate the viewpoint of the cult.

*edit*
Seems like Kaide_XIV has been banned now. Let's hand the thread back to TexasCaesar.

mistados
05-31-2017, 12:42 PM
Think to yourself: when Christians act in a way that goes against Christian values, is it because they want to mock Christianity as a religion? Or does "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak" apply?

You seem to regard Christians as people who adhere to the Bible, without straying from it. You seem to think committing a sin is mocking Christianity, rather than an aspect of human nature. Know that there are more motives and intents in life, besides religion.

Ubisoft is not trying to spread lies by claiming Christianity promotes forceful baptisement and having bibles for weapon dispensers. They are telling a fictional story, about a fanatic cult that abuses Christian symbols, and oppresses a Pastor who in turn feels he has nowhere else to turn than to a gun. Because that itself conflicts with his Christian beliefs, it's a sign that he must be desperate.

And concerning the cover art: the Doomsday cult leader is a megalomaniac. He considers himself to be a savior. The Last Supper reference is a powerful way to communicating this visually. It does not mock Jesus or Christians, it is used to illustrate the viewpoint of the cult.

*edit*
Seems like Kaide_XIV has been banned now. Let's hand the thread back to TexasCaesar.

Well said and well written too.

HorTyS
05-31-2017, 06:22 PM
Look at the picture below and tell me if you think Ubisoft is mocking Christianity or not..


Well said and well written too.


Indeed it was. You know, I never heard about any uproar over the Soprano's

http://wp.thunderbyte.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/lastsupper_sopranos.jpeg

And I don't think cereal enthusiast forums were ever overrun

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/271/994/d51.jpg

This is hardly the first time the last supper image has been used to show something else...

mistados
05-31-2017, 07:16 PM
I guess the video game industry, for whatever reason, is just a prime candidate. It seems to draw all the loonies out of the wood work..lol

HorTyS
05-31-2017, 07:35 PM
http://i.imgur.com/FyomD1J.jpg

Also I think we gotta commend Ubi-KitKoumal for handling the situation probably with a bit more tact & grace than any of us did. haha, I don't know about the rest of y'all, but it was hard maintaining the level of cordiality that I did.... anyway, to our moderator,

http://i.imgur.com/d3Os2lG.gif

mistados
05-31-2017, 07:56 PM
Agreed, it was a trying time for sure, I think I lost a few years due to the stress of it all..lol

Good job mods!

http://i.imgur.com/FGkIQLJ.gif

HorTyS
05-31-2017, 08:23 PM
Agreed, it was a trying time for sure, I think I lost a few years due to the stress of it all..lol

Good job mods!

Ha ha! I don't know if I took it that seriously but it was frustrating for sure. Dealing with the ideologically possessed always is.

mistados
05-31-2017, 08:29 PM
Once a few days have passed I will start to relax, until then I'm still on high alert..lol

Butcherbird59
06-01-2017, 12:43 AM
What's the problem to release games without religious finger pointing?

I don't care about movies coz in movies others shoot the opponents but in a FPS game it's YOU pulling the trigger - small but significant difference!

HorTyS
06-01-2017, 12:53 AM
What's the problem to release games without religious finger pointing?

I don't care about movies coz in movies others shoot the opponents but in a FPS game it's YOU pulling the trigger - small but significant difference!

If you are uncomfortable pulling the trigger, decide not to, see how well pacifism works in a videogame where the enemy is trying to kill you. Personally I wouldn't find it to be much fun so...

Butcherbird59
06-01-2017, 01:14 AM
If you are uncomfortable pulling the trigger, decide not to, see how well pacifism works in a videogame where the enemy is trying to kill you. Personally I wouldn't find it to be much fun so...

Having played 100+ FC4 maps and still hunting I don't think I am pacifist - but this FC5 topic clearly shows there is a concerning attitude problem withing Ubisoft .. maybe too much multiculti in one company is a bad idea, no?!

HorTyS
06-01-2017, 01:29 AM
Having played 100+ FC4 maps and still hunting I don't think I am pacifist - but this FC5 topic clearly shows there is a concerning attitude problem withing Ubisoft .. maybe too much multiculti in one company is a bad idea, no?!

No. I don't believe that there is such a thing as to much multiculturalism. What would be the possible negative impact of having as many perspecitves on a matter as possible (besides sorting through them all that is)? I also do not think the topic shows a concerning attitude within the company, I think that is a misinterpretation of the intent of the topic. It is a topical subject, there is no denying that, but I think projecting some sort of hard-wired agenda on to it is blowing it a bit out of proportion considering what it actually is and what it will actually be presenting...especially considering we still do not have the full picture of what exactly that is.

M4ke_Off
06-01-2017, 01:47 AM
It seems like Ubisoft is avoiding tying this game to any critique of right wing religious fundamentalism or white nationalism/supremacy

its just a generic apocalyptic cult that accepts anyone regardless of race or nationality seeing as their are blacks within the group

HorTyS
06-01-2017, 01:50 AM
It seems like Ubisoft is avoiding tying this game to any critique of right wing religious fundamentalism or white nationalism/supremacy

its just a generic apocalyptic cult that accepts anyone regardless of race or nationality seeing as their are blacks within the group

Hasn't stopped some of them from accusing the game of being a "white genocide simulator"...

angryfudgepop
06-06-2017, 03:08 AM
What part of Far Cry 5 is controversial?

HorTyS
06-06-2017, 04:50 AM
The parts that are mis-interpreted as being anti-christian. Some people are under the impression that the cult in the game are actually just good ole country christian folk. There are also those claiming the game to be a "white genocide" simulator even though there is honestly a disproportionate number of ethnic groups on both sides of the conflict in the game. Anyone who has any familiarity of rural MT will tell you the same....

Stalin_4
06-06-2017, 10:25 PM
Why you are thinking that it is something bad that Right americans are demonized?*******

usmovers_02
06-07-2017, 02:17 PM
Why you are thinking that it is something bad that Right americans are demonized? ***************.
Dude please don't instigate...

Ubi-KitKoumal
06-08-2017, 02:11 PM
Hey there,


Why you are thinking that it is something bad that Right americans are demonized? **************

As usmovers_02 said, please be mindful of other users and don't post messages that might be taken personnaly by others. First warning, thanks for your understanding! :)

Cheers,

Kit