PDA

View Full Version : In the right hands, Shinobi is absolutely overpowered.



radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 01:33 AM
The dweebs ready to defend him need not bother. I get that you're absolutely enjoying his broken state at the moment.

Please explain this.

As a warden main, centurion second, if I'm fast enough to secure a guard break, I can land a side heavy... MAYBE TWO if I get too attack happy and get lucky enough to just hit them unblocked.

Please, someone explain to me how it is fair that if a shinobi gets a guard break he can initiate a MULTIPLE hit chain of 3+ attacks that also ENTIRELY drain your stamina with zero counterplay besides the 50/50 chance that his wind up range attack is a guard break or a regular attack to try and defend.

Once the guard break lands you're caught in recovery limbo where none of your controller inputs even register.

Now mind you. Ive never seen a shinobi chain this immediately, they need about 3-4 seconds to gain back the stamina required to do this again.

It's stupid. It's game breaking and it's just another example of over designing a japanese character out of some misplaced notion that despite their average statures, shugi excluded that they deserve an absolutely exaggerated moveset compared to other heroes because they are obviously superhuman.

This is game breaking and it needs to be addressed soon.

BeefMan_
05-28-2017, 01:38 AM
Basically
Good Shinobis are not counterable
Bad Shinobis will kill themselves most of the time
Completely broken character

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 01:39 AM
by recovery limbo I'm referring to the fact that your character does nothing for a fraction of a second because his animation that is recovering from an attack prevents any input like dodging, attacking or even trying to cgb

Its ridiculous... whats the danger in this for a shinobi? at the very worst, I cgb his ranged gb... which isn't easy and most of the time when you go for a cab on the ranged attack, it turns out to be a regular attack anyway with no time to react to it at that point so...


consequence #1: he gets a free hit

Consequence #2: assuming you cgb his ranged gb, you throw him on the ground from range and by the time you get to him and close the gap he's already recovered and exited your strike range

I seriously do not know what ubisoft was thinking when they were making this trashcan hero

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 01:42 AM
Basically
Good Shinobis are not counterable
Bad Shinobis will kill themselves most of the time
Completely broken character


This is absolutely true. I mainly stick to duels and 2v2 brawls with a good friend of mine so my experience is the raw character with gear stats excluded... Despite enjoying the badass look of my warden, gear is seldom a factor in my experience because I normally never play dominion or deathmatch.

Arekonator
05-28-2017, 01:43 AM
While there is tons of stuff on shinobi to complain about, his ranged attacks/GB is actually pretty easily countered and in 1v1 basically non-issue.

pancakerz
05-28-2017, 01:44 AM
The Centurion and Shinobi both have what are, in my opinion, ridiculous combos that deal too much damage (both hp and stamina) at the cost of a single mistake. If they really wanted to emphasize the Shin's squishiness, they should have made her deflect based, rather than range based. And either way, both of these characters don't really "break the meta" so much as they completely stray from the design philosophy of the other characters.

And I say this as someone who was incredibly hyped for the Shinobi ever since she was announced. Also her emotes are boring :rolleyes:

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 01:47 AM
explain to me what the difference is in windup for the ranged attack to differentiate between an incoming gb or jut simply an attack? Don't worry, I'll wait.

Dodging isn't always the answer and you don't always have environment to hide behind, and even when ou do, his **** glitches through it rather consistently.

Also, since you seem to have just a great response to this... It doesn't have to be a ranged gb... Just allowing a normal guard break to land initiates this recovery animation limbo where he lands 3+ hits and drains your stamina..... then hops back to act like he's ready for a normal fight after you're near half health or less with NO STAMINA.


Don't try to defend this, there's nothing to defend, you obviously just enjoy his broken state if you do.

Antonioj26
05-28-2017, 01:49 AM
While there is tons of stuff on shinobi to complain about, his ranged attacks/GB is actually pretty easily countered and in 1v1 basically non-issue.

Yes it is easily countered which is why you won't see good shinobis doing them.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 01:50 AM
by the time guard break is on you its already landed without any broken shield icon like any normal gb until AFTER he's already grabbed you, or less than a 1/4 of a second attack zone flash... Please tell me I'm wrong. I'd love to know what the actual fcuk I'm missing here concerning the ranged shinoibi bs

pancakerz
05-28-2017, 01:53 AM
explain to me what the difference is in windup for the ranged attack to differentiate between an incoming gb or jut simply an attack? Don't worry, I'll wait.

I mean, it's right there in your post. It takes like 3 days for the chain to actually hit you, so all you have to do is wait for the attack and respond. Getting ready to block and gb at the same time is incredibly easy considering they're on different hands/fingers.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 01:55 AM
Yes it is easily countered which is why you won't see good shinobis doing them.


like I said, it doesn't matter if the guard break is ranged or not... In the right hands if you give a shinbone ONE free hit they can chain that by locking you into recovery animation limbo that eats half your health as a warden, more or less depending on the base health of other characters and COMPLETELY drains your stamina.

Whats sad is, its a combo that has gaps in the attacks and actions that should absolutely include some sort of counterplay, but it does not. It's bs, its unfair and its no fun to play against when you have to play as if you can't allow even ONE mistake to mediocre lvl 1 renoun and less players.

It is absolutely an egregious design flaw

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 01:57 AM
I mean, it's right there in your post. It takes like 3 days for the chain to actually hit you, so all you have to do is wait for the attack and respond. Getting ready to block and gb at the same time is incredibly easy considering they're on different hands/fingers.

lmao really? How do you hold your controller?

I need my thumb to move my guard to the right zone or I need it ready to hit x.

Unless you have a freak hand or obscure method of holding your controller this is entirely false.

I play on the xbox one.

If your solution or suggestion is, 'then don't play on xbox, get a computer' just bow out and stfu please

Arekonator
05-28-2017, 01:57 AM
Why read differences in windup when its counterable by reaction? You can tell direction of the strike by position of his off-hand, then you simply block that direction. It it turns out to be ranged GB, you simply CGB as normal, if its attack you just block, only parry if you feeling cheeky. If you have at least average reaction times, its trivial to do.
I agree that considering how well his kick tracks and how stupidly safe it is in general, its stamina damage could be toned down.

I am not defending anything, i am just pointing out that from ton of things that you could legit complain about, you somehow managed to pick the only one thats actually non-issue.

Antonioj26
05-28-2017, 01:59 AM
like I said, it doesn't matter if the guard break is ranged or not... In the right hands if you give a shinbone ONE free hit they can chain that by locking you into recovery animation limbo that eats half your health as a warden, more or less depending on the base health of other characters and COMPLETELY drains your stamina.

Whats sad is, its a combo that has gaps in the attacks and actions that should absolutely include some sort of counterplay, but it does not. It's bs, its unfair and its no fun to play against when you have to play as if you can't allow even ONE mistake to mediocre lvl 1 renoun and less players.

It is absolutely an egregious design flaw

I think you are missing my point. I'm saying that good shinobis won't be caught on their back from a long range parry or cgb.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 01:59 AM
The Centurion and Shinobi both have what are, in my opinion, ridiculous combos that deal too much damage (both hp and stamina) at the cost of a single mistake. If they really wanted to emphasize the Shin's squishiness, they should have made her deflect based, rather than range based. And either way, both of these characters don't really "break the meta" so much as they completely stray from the design philosophy of the other characters.

And I say this as someone who was incredibly hyped for the Shinobi ever since she was announced. Also her emotes are boring :rolleyes:

Thanks for admitting this, even as someone who wanted to like shinobi.

Even as a warden main i refuse to use his chain spam, and I'm very opposed to any chain spam existing in this game as a viable fighting tactic.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 02:03 AM
I think you are missing my point. I'm saying that good shinobis won't be caught on their back from a long range parry or cgb.


I understand what you're saying... I'm just saying that being able to initiate this at range is a small part of the problem, with the real problem being any opening is exploitable to a shinobi that knows the chain that destroys stamina while landing 3+ hits with little to NO penalty or danger to the shinobi.

BeefMan_
05-28-2017, 02:04 AM
lmao really? How do you hold your controller?

I need my thumb to move my guard to the right zone or I need it ready to hit x.

Unless you have a freak hand or obscure method of holding your controller this is entirely false.

I play on the xbox one.

If your solution or suggestion is, 'then don't play on xbox, get a computer' just bow out and stfu please

You play on Xbox and haven't remapped your GB button to LB?
You don't even claw?

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 02:06 AM
A safe windup at range that forces your opponent to scramble to react to an instant incoming attack or gb is stupid. No other character has this. Just like no other character has a moveset like any of the japanese characters.

They are over designed trash and the game would be wonderful without all of them. Kensei can stay, the others are all over designed trash.

Antonioj26
05-28-2017, 02:11 AM
I understand what you're saying... I'm just saying that being able to initiate this at range is a small part of the problem, with the real problem being any opening is exploitable to a shinobi that knows the chain that destroys stamina while landing 3+ hits with little to NO penalty or danger to the shinobi.

Why are you arguing a point im not arguing against and didn't even bring up?

Arekonator
05-28-2017, 02:11 AM
Those are literaly the most telegraphed moves in entire game... Yes, shinobi needs a solid tweaks, but those ranged moves are actually worse part of his kit.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 02:19 AM
Why are you arguing a point im not arguing against and didn't even bring up?I honestly confused you for the other person posting in this thread who's name start with an A... Areknator or something like that.

I'm not neccesarily arguing with you as much as I'm thinking that I'm replying to him... Apologies but I hope you see how easy it is to look over that pretty easily.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 02:21 AM
Those are literaly the most telegraphed moves in entire game... Yes, shinobi needs a solid tweaks, but those ranged moves are actually worse part of his kit.

We've covered this champ. Yes his ranged moves are aggravating but not game breaking... What is game breaking is allowing him to secure a guard break that initiates the stamina destruction plus 1/2 your life or more

Antonioj26
05-28-2017, 02:24 AM
I honestly confused you for the other person posting in this thread who's name start with an A... Areknator or something like that.

I'm not neccesarily arguing with you as much as I'm thinking that I'm replying to him... Apologies but I hope you see how easy it is to look over that pretty easily.

It's alright I'm just incredibly confused not offended

Arekonator
05-28-2017, 02:29 AM
Except it doesnt allow him to? Only situation where the ranged GB into sickle rain is unavoidable and uncounterable is after he gets a light parry. In every other situation its perfectly counterable and not hard to avoid.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 02:38 AM
Except it doesnt allow him to? Only situation where the ranged GB into sickle rain is unavoidable and uncounterable is after he gets a light parry. In every other situation its perfectly counterable and not hard to avoid.

I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over to you.

Arekonator
05-28-2017, 02:46 AM
Because you keep switching between points. None of his moves besides kicks drains stamina. If he lands a GB he can only get heavy into confirmed light, everything else is reactable. The combo that drains all your stamina and 1/2hp you are describing doesnt exist.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 02:53 AM
Because you keep switching between points. None of his moves besides kicks drains stamina. If he lands a GB he can only get heavy into confirmed light, everything else is reactable. The combo that drains all your stamina and 1/2hp you are describing doesnt exist.

Can you just move along with your know it all bs? You're not going to tell me what I just watched occur on my screen 3 rounds in a row. There was no kick added in his rotation. It was a ranged gb once and then the other two times it was initiated by a close range gb, into a combo that hits with quick to moderate speed 3+ times...

I watched my stamina drain with each connection while I had no control over my character that was stuck in recovery limbo following every hit.

I won't explain this again. Continue to defend this trash character, I get that you're content with being part of the problem with this game.

Arekonator
05-28-2017, 03:21 AM
I dont even play shinobi, i am not defending it, i want it to die in the fire, except my reasons for that, you know, actually exist. The second hit that pulls you into the sickle rain is fully blockable.
You in meantime flip-flop between "his ranged attacks are too fast and cannot be defended aganist properly" into "muh recovery limbo" from attacks that basically never lands if you have just slightly faster reaction times than pregnant turtle.

kweassa1917
05-28-2017, 03:30 AM
What's not overpowered "in the right hands", and how many of us playing the game are not some average joes and actually have "right hands"?


Statements like those -- "in the right hands", "if somebody knows it well", "any good player", etc. etc.. -- are just too vague, general, and arbitrary. It works as nothing more than a generalization intended to justify whatever inaccurate claim you aim to throw out.

Honestly, I'm willing to bet anyone with "right hands" would smack around an average joe like me silly, regardless of what they play. I've got enough experience and balls to recognize people who beat me are probably just better than me, Mebbe it's time a lot of the complainy-whiney, touchy-feely folk here should think back on their fights and be more objective about themselves.

Because when it's an average joe on the other side, whatever class they use, I win some, I lose some. No average joe is skilled enough to not make any "normal people mistakes" that offset whatever advantages they have through the class. If they don't make such mistakes, and if you always lose -- or at least, lose enough to complain about them -- then they're not average. They're more skilled than you.

In most cases, honestly, it's Occam's razor. You don't need gazillion excuses and analyses to explain why you lost. You simply lost because the other guy's better.

Once people start to admit that, they'd know the game's not as "broken" as they think, nor the devs as "incompetent" as they think.

Antonioj26
05-28-2017, 03:30 AM
Can you just move along with your know it all bs? You're not going to tell me what I just watched occur on my screen 3 rounds in a row. There was no kick added in his rotation. It was a ranged gb once and then the other two times it was initiated by a close range gb, into a combo that hits with quick to moderate speed 3+ times...

I watched my stamina drain with each connection while I had no control over my character that was stuck in recovery limbo following every hit.

I won't explain this again. Continue to defend this trash character, I get that you're content with being part of the problem with this game.

Sickle rain can be initiated from a ranged gb but not close range gb. He needs to land two heavies for that.

kweassa1917
05-28-2017, 03:36 AM
Sickle rain can be initiated from a ranged gb but not close range gb. He needs to land two heavies for that.

Do people actually use ranged GB anymore? After flopping them around so much last week, it seems nobody uses it anymore.

Jasado
05-28-2017, 08:25 PM
Okay. Shinobi main here to clear up the confusion.

For people trying to say that ranged guardbreak into sickle rain (the move that puts you on your knees and let's him 1-2-3 you for smaller bleedstacks than peacekeeper, but after a heavy - his highest dps move is blockable - that USED to be the case when Shinobi first released. However, the hotfix we received a few days after season 2 (which computer had from the start, but consoles did not receive yet) made ranged GB into Sickle Rain GUARANTEED, as it should have been, lol. So, if he lands the guardbreak, you're getting one of the strongest moves in for honor done to you.

However. Ranged Guardbreak is the easiest thing in the world to counter and has the most forgiving time period to respond, as well as no "parry" window - you just have to mash a button. So in that sense, the original poster of this topic is clearly bad at rejecting grabs. Not unusual.

So I'm going to give you the most obvious tip ever to help you fix your terrible play.

When the Shinobi does his RANGED GRAB ATTACK, he SCREAMS "KAKUGO" AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS.

He DOES NOT DO THIS FOR NORMAL RANGED ATTACKS.

If you HEAR this line, anywhere from MID to MAXIMUM RANGE - you can REJECT THE GRAB EVEN LATER THAN HIM FINISHING THE VOICE LINE.

Similarly, the sickle chain fires DIRECTLY AT THE MIDDLE OF YOUR CHARACTER MODEL WITH A BLUE TINGE.


If you need more help than that to prevent being mixed-up and killed, then you have the reflexes of a rock. Not the games problem. Drink some water and work on your vitamin A.

The only options out of a normal MELEE guard break that are guaranteed, is a 1-2 light attacks, or a 1-2 Ghoul's Rage (heavy+light).

There is no guaranteed "3+ hits combo attack" out of a NORMAL GRAB. If he landed SICKLE RAIN (the move that again, puts you on your knees and does 3 chops on you after a second heavy) - that means he landed 1 guaranteed heavy and then did a second heavy attack and LANDED it.

If you get hit by the second raw heavy someone throws out in a combo - that is your fault. Again, you have the reflexes of a rock. 2 Blatant heavies back to back are like the easiest thing in For Honor to parry or block.

So let's recap. Ranged Guardbreak is a GUARANTEED SICKLE RAIN. It is NO LONGER BLOCKABLE AFTER THE GRAB HITS. This was changed in the Hotfix patch consoles received several days after Season 2.

However, as explained above, Ranged Guardbreak is the most novice/punishable move in the game with HUGE TELLS that it's coming. If this lands on you repeatedly, you suck or got outplayed in the mindgame of a mixup that was in YOUR favor. End of story.

Melee Guardbreak does NOT guarantee a sickle rain. If it landed, 2 heavies were done, and you ate the second one when you could have pushed X to back dodge, or blocked it. It has terrible tracking, because Sickle Rain is op. So, there is no "3+ hit combo" out of a MELEE GUARDBREAK. The only "true" combos are 1-2 Light/Light, and 1-2 Heavy/Light.

From the original posters topic, he simply has no concept of WHERE HIS GUARDBREAK BUTTON IS OR HOW TO USE IT.

That has NOTHING to do with the balance of Shinobi. Everything relevant will kill you if you don't know how to reject throws. Vortex, Warlords Ledges, Raider OOS punish and wallsplat mixups, Centurion quick throws into Lion's Pounce, etc.

Don't blame classes you didn't even bother to read the moveset list or even understand on a basic level for your inability to push 1 button at the right time, basically ever. That's your fault.

Antonioj26
05-28-2017, 08:33 PM
Okay. Shinobi main here to clear up the confusion.

For people trying to say that ranged guardbreak into sickle rain (the move that puts you on your knees and let's him 1-2-3 you for smaller bleedstacks than peacekeeper, but after a heavy - his highest dps move is blockable - that USED to be the case when Shinobi first released. However, the hotfix we received a few days after season 2 (which computer had from the start, but consoles did not receive yet) made ranged GB into Sickle Rain GUARANTEED, as it should have been, lol. So, if he lands the guardbreak, you're getting one of the strongest moves in for honor done to you.

However. Ranged Guardbreak is the easiest thing in the world to counter and has the most forgiving time period to respond, as well as no "parry" window - you just have to mash a button. So in that sense, the original poster of this topic is clearly bad at rejecting grabs. Not unusual.

So I'm going to give you the most obvious tip ever to help you fix your terrible play.

When the Shinobi does his RANGED GRAB ATTACK, he SCREAMS "KAKUGO" AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS.

He DOES NOT DO THIS FOR NORMAL RANGED ATTACKS.

If you HEAR this line, anywhere from MID to MAXIMUM RANGE - you can REJECT THE GRAB EVEN LATER THAN HIM FINISHING THE VOICE LINE.

Similarly, the sickle chain fires DIRECTLY AT THE MIDDLE OF YOUR CHARACTER MODEL WITH A BLUE TINGE.


If you need more help than that to prevent being mixed-up and killed, then you have the reflexes of a rock. Not the games problem. Drink some water and work on your vitamin A.

The only options out of a normal MELEE guard break that are guaranteed, is a 1-2 light attacks, or a 1-2 Ghoul's Rage (heavy+light).

There is no guaranteed "3+ hits combo attack" out of a NORMAL GRAB. If he landed SICKLE RAIN (the move that again, puts you on your knees and does 3 chops on you after a second heavy) - that means he landed 1 guaranteed heavy and then did a second heavy attack and LANDED it.

If you get hit by the second raw heavy someone throws out in a combo - that is your fault. Again, you have the reflexes of a rock. 2 Blatant heavies back to back are like the easiest thing in For Honor to parry or block.

So let's recap. Ranged Guardbreak is a GUARANTEED SICKLE RAIN. It is NO LONGER BLOCKABLE AFTER THE GRAB HITS. This was changed in the Hotfix patch consoles received several days after Season 2.

However, as explained above, Ranged Guardbreak is the most novice/punishable move in the game with HUGE TELLS that it's coming. If this lands on you repeatedly, you suck or got outplayed in the mindgame of a mixup that was in YOUR favor. End of story.

Melee Guardbreak does NOT guarantee a sickle rain. If it landed, 2 heavies were done, and you ate the second one when you could have pushed X to back dodge, or blocked it. It has terrible tracking, because Sickle Rain is op. So, there is no "3+ hit combo" out of a MELEE GUARDBREAK. The only "true" combos are 1-2 Light/Light, and 1-2 Heavy/Light.

From the original posters topic, he simply has no concept of WHERE HIS GUARDBREAK BUTTON IS OR HOW TO USE IT.

That has NOTHING to do with the balance of Shinobi. Everything relevant will kill you if you don't know how to reject throws. Vortex, Warlords Ledges, Raider OOS punish and wallsplat mixups, Centurion quick throws into Lion's Pounce, etc.

Don't blame classes you didn't even bother to read the moveset list or even understand on a basic level for your inability to push 1 button at the right time, basically ever. That's your fault.

Yeah he's wrong about that but shinobi still has a ton of issues. Plus the ranged gb is safe/guaranteed after a light parry to get a confirmed sickle rain so it's not completely unavoidable even by non novices.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 09:03 PM
Okay. Shinobi main here to clear up the confusion.

For people trying to say that ranged guardbreak into sickle rain (the move that puts you on your knees and let's him 1-2-3 you for smaller bleedstacks than peacekeeper, but after a heavy - his highest dps move is blockable - that USED to be the case when Shinobi first released. However, the hotfix we received a few days after season 2 (which computer had from the start, but consoles did not receive yet) made ranged GB into Sickle Rain GUARANTEED, as it should have been, lol. So, if he lands the guardbreak, you're getting one of the strongest moves in for honor done to you.

However. Ranged Guardbreak is the easiest thing in the world to counter and has the most forgiving time period to respond, as well as no "parry" window - you just have to mash a button. So in that sense, the original poster of this topic is clearly bad at rejecting grabs. Not unusual.

So I'm going to give you the most obvious tip ever to help you fix your terrible play.

When the Shinobi does his RANGED GRAB ATTACK, he SCREAMS "KAKUGO" AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS.

He DOES NOT DO THIS FOR NORMAL RANGED ATTACKS.

If you HEAR this line, anywhere from MID to MAXIMUM RANGE - you can REJECT THE GRAB EVEN LATER THAN HIM FINISHING THE VOICE LINE.

Similarly, the sickle chain fires DIRECTLY AT THE MIDDLE OF YOUR CHARACTER MODEL WITH A BLUE TINGE.


If you need more help than that to prevent being mixed-up and killed, then you have the reflexes of a rock. Not the games problem. Drink some water and work on your vitamin A.

The only options out of a normal MELEE guard break that are guaranteed, is a 1-2 light attacks, or a 1-2 Ghoul's Rage (heavy+light).

There is no guaranteed "3+ hits combo attack" out of a NORMAL GRAB. If he landed SICKLE RAIN (the move that again, puts you on your knees and does 3 chops on you after a second heavy) - that means he landed 1 guaranteed heavy and then did a second heavy attack and LANDED it.

If you get hit by the second raw heavy someone throws out in a combo - that is your fault. Again, you have the reflexes of a rock. 2 Blatant heavies back to back are like the easiest thing in For Honor to parry or block.

So let's recap. Ranged Guardbreak is a GUARANTEED SICKLE RAIN. It is NO LONGER BLOCKABLE AFTER THE GRAB HITS. This was changed in the Hotfix patch consoles received several days after Season 2.

However, as explained above, Ranged Guardbreak is the most novice/punishable move in the game with HUGE TELLS that it's coming. If this lands on you repeatedly, you suck or got outplayed in the mindgame of a mixup that was in YOUR favor. End of story.

Melee Guardbreak does NOT guarantee a sickle rain. If it landed, 2 heavies were done, and you ate the second one when you could have pushed X to back dodge, or blocked it. It has terrible tracking, because Sickle Rain is op. So, there is no "3+ hit combo" out of a MELEE GUARDBREAK. The only "true" combos are 1-2 Light/Light, and 1-2 Heavy/Light.

From the original posters topic, he simply has no concept of WHERE HIS GUARDBREAK BUTTON IS OR HOW TO USE IT.

That has NOTHING to do with the balance of Shinobi. Everything relevant will kill you if you don't know how to reject throws. Vortex, Warlords Ledges, Raider OOS punish and wallsplat mixups, Centurion quick throws into Lion's Pounce, etc.

Don't blame classes you didn't even bother to read the moveset list or even understand on a basic level for your inability to push 1 button at the right time, basically ever. That's your fault.

As informative as this was and I'm sure it'll help me, this doesn't address the stamina drain of the gb into the sickle rain. One gb into sickle rain (which i may have exaggerated the 3+ hits landing) drains stamina completely, no kick necessary.

How is that not broken for what's apparently the most damaging ability in the game. It almost seems like the warden glitch could be a necessary addition to the game when things like this exist.

DrExtrem
05-28-2017, 09:14 PM
Even their bot versions (of both new heroes) are magnitudes harder to kill, than their equal level vanilla co-bots.

Valk-bot and her light spam? I can deal with that. Pk-bot spamming light attacks and dashes? No problem. Warden-bots? Like eating pie. Even shugoki (the one giving me the biggest problem in season one) is like a breeze compared to the shinobi-bot.

When fighting a shinobi, no matter if it is a bot or a human, you have to rely on them doing something stupid and even if they **** up, you will not leave the fight in one piece.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 09:25 PM
Even their bot versions (of both new heroes) are magnitudes harder to kill, than their equal level vanilla co-bots.

Valk-bot and her light spam? I can deal with that. Pk-bot spamming light attacks and dashes? No problem. Warden-bots? Like eating pie. Even shugoki (the one giving me the biggest problem in season one) is like a breeze compared to the shinobi-bot.

When fighting a shinobi, no matter if it is a bot or a human, you have to rely on them doing something stupid and even if they **** up, you will not leave the fight in one piece.

It's not a matter of game mechanics or the ability to counter play, it's dweebs who take an instant liking to anything they consider a tactic used to troll vs people who at least want the game balanced enough to feel fair.

The dweebs defend the broken mechanics and the people who actually value working for a win are called trolls and cry babies by the ones crying and trolling to keep their overpowered niche intact.

R-a-g-e.
05-28-2017, 09:33 PM
I also think that Shinobi is overpowered in 4 vs 4 modes.
In 1 vs. 1 fights he can easily be defeated.
He always inteferes in other fights, he always keeps running away, he continuously spamms his kick and he always stays in the distance.
When he is not in your field of view then you cannot block his distance guard break because you cannot see it.

This character does not fit into the game because he is only fighting cowardly and I hate running after Shinobis all the time.

radi0wantcandy
05-28-2017, 09:34 PM
They should rename the Shinobi Floyd Mayweather or Usain Bolt in favor of their track star tendencies.

DrExtrem
05-28-2017, 09:43 PM
First and foremost.

Why does the shinobi have ranged attacks? Last time i checked, for honor is a melee game and ranged abilities were reduced to feats with cooldowns. Climbing ladders is suicidal when a shinobi is around. I get the feeling they really wanted scorpion in this game to please the fighting game crowd.

R-a-g-e.
05-29-2017, 08:46 AM
First and foremost.

Why does the shinobi have ranged attacks? Last time i checked, for honor is a melee game and ranged abilities were reduced to feats with cooldowns.

This is just what I thought when I saw the first gameplay with Shinobi. They should rework the Shinobi and remove his distance attacks or they should reduce the distance which he needs to grab you. They could increase his health bar instead.

Fighting Shinbois is always the same:

1. Several attacks from the distance
2. Closer attacks but moving back to the distance immediately
3. Spamming his kick
When none if these points works then he runs away.
I tried to follow several Shinobis but I gave up following them. Its too childish and I cannot catch him.

The Shinobis in Elimination are even better:
The round starts and they are immediately running away to help one of their teammates. Then both of the enemies kill my teammate until I found the Shinobi and then
they both attack me.

So this is supposed to be fair? In my opinion this behaviour is just coward and childish.

AdeptusLupos
05-29-2017, 09:22 AM
We've covered this champ. Yes his ranged moves are aggravating but not game breaking... What is game breaking is allowing him to secure a guard break that initiates the stamina destruction plus 1/2 your life or more

It's not game breaking considering if you counter the gb, the shinobi loses 3/4ths of his health bar, it's not even hard to counter. It's so easy to counter most shinobi don't use it in high level play.

Learn to play you don't even have a leg to stand on.

Shinobi dies easily it 2 to 3 hits. They are a glass cannon get over it, and or learn to counter it. It's not hard If I can counter it so can you.

Mighty_Mackerel
05-29-2017, 09:29 AM
I just want Ubisoft to nerf that damn kick. It's the only unblockable attack in the game that can't be interrupted, while all the other characters can be interrupted... WHY??? I've found that really the only thing I can do (as a Warden main myself) against a ridiculously good Shinobi player is to bait out that kick and either dodge and shoulder bash or top light attack. But every time I land an attack while the Shinobi is STILL in the air kicking, the kick still goes through and hits me square in the face. Or if I shoulder bash into him while he is also STILL in the air kicking, instead of both of our unblockable attacks canceling out like EVERY other situation, that stupid kick still goes through and hits me square in the damn face... What. The. Hell? Not to mention that kick is so frickin' fast that you practically have to have God-like reflexes just to dodge it.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-29-2017, 09:50 AM
In the right hands pretty much ANY hero is godlike against the run of the mill players. If you get someone who knows their hero inside and out and put them up against the average player its gonna be a slaughter.

WinterHt
05-29-2017, 10:05 AM
Everyone is up in arms about Centurion but this guy right here is the real disgrace in my opinion. Yes, infinite wall stun of Cent is probably something that shouldn't happen, as getting walled = gg. But other than that Cent is difficult, even annoying to fight against, but is still beatable.

Shinobi on the other hand has it all... super quick ranged attacks, super quick zone attack, super quick lights that combo into a second from any stance, ranged guard breaks that can be deceptively fast, and are nigh unreactable if thrown by an enemy that you aren't locked on to, deflects, deouble dodges, double dodges that lead into a super quick unblockable kick that has super armour, and leads into a free heavy, from which the Shinobi can just safely back flip away after landing it, a single guard break can take away half the health of even the tankiest characters, really... this guy has it all... he is damn good up close, and even better from a distance. And if he doesn't like fighting you, he can say "nah ima outta here" and you'd have no hope of touching them. If you say "screw this, I'm outta here" he'll have no issues chasing you down. His kick has priority over every other shove move. Low health is not a balancing instrument when the character has this much going for them. Low health only works against people who make mistakes, and even then it may not always be enough...

How is all that even remotely OK?

And what's the first thing ubi does? To buff him after release by decreasing vulnerability of Shinobi after a successful parry or counter guardbreak against a ranged attack... smh...

This character is very annoying for either high or low level players to deal with...

R-a-g-e.
05-29-2017, 10:05 AM
In the right hands pretty much ANY hero is godlike against the run of the mill players. If you get someone who knows their hero inside and out and put them up against the average player its gonna be a slaughter.

So then let me report my experience yesterday:

I did not use the Shinobi before and I wanted to become familiar with his attacks, so I did about 10 minutes training wth him yesterday.
After this I directly jumped into a PvP Domination match, not expecting to be good with Shinobi.
Our enemies where all Rep. 3 and above and I really dominated the enemies and the whole match with my Level 0 Shinobi, that I only used in 10 minutes training before.

The result was, that I had 14 kills, 4 deaths, I was the best in my team, our team won and the enemy team was really upset and could not believe that I did not use the Shinobi in any other PvP before.

Now you want to tell us that the Shinobi is not overpowered?

Of course I did better with my main Kensei in several other matches but I played Kensei for many hours and not only 10 minutes.

AdeptusLupos
05-29-2017, 10:45 AM
I also think that Shinobi is overpowered in 4 vs 4 modes.
In 1 vs. 1 fights he can easily be defeated.
He always inteferes in other fights, he always keeps running away, he continuously spamms his kick and he always stays in the distance.
When he is not in your field of view then you cannot block his distance guard break because you cannot see it.

This character does not fit into the game because he is only fighting cowardly and I hate running after Shinobis all the time.

Actually you are wrong and you can see it even if you are not looking at him. Just like every other character, it tells you on your own guard stance wich direction attacks from people you are not targeting are comming from, and even lights up red so you can parry people your not targeting, the gb symbol shows up as well. And the shinobi cgb is the most forgiving window of all.

Ontari
05-29-2017, 10:50 AM
Well, it is true that in 4v4 Shinobi is a painful one when he is in the other team. Like a sniper that throws his hooks at you when you are engaged with the other enemy in the actual duel. Buuuut:

"This character does not fit into the game because he is only fighting cowardly and I hate running after Shinobis all the time." - made me laugh. So orochi is no longer the sonic master? :D

R-a-g-e.
05-29-2017, 10:54 AM
Actually you are wrong and you can see it even if you are not looking at him. Just like every other character, it tells you on your own guard stance wich direction attacks from people you are not targeting are comming from, and even lights up red so you can parry people your not targeting, the gb symbol shows up as well. And the shinobi cgb is the most forgiving window of all.

Really? Even when he is behind you?
I never recognized the sign for the guard break when he attacked from the distance when he was not in my field of view.
I will pay attention next time. Maybe I did not recognize it because I focused on the enemies which were in my field of view.

Even if there is a sign for a guard break then it is still unfair when he is not in your field of view because it is hard to see because you do not know that there is an enemy who will attack you.

@ Ontari: :D Orochi is one of the easiest characters to fight against. He needs to play very defensive so you can easily feint him.
Shinobi has his super sprint so no other character can follow him.

Some Shinobis, which were the last surviving teammate at the end of a match, ran across the map for minutes. He was followed by the enemy team and no one could catch them.

Ontari
05-29-2017, 11:02 AM
Yeah, I know Orochi, he is my second main after Kensei. And true that - I forgot Shinobi has super sprint, my bad!

AdeptusLupos
05-29-2017, 11:10 AM
You do realize that alot of the experience from using another character is transferable in this game right?

It's not like you where a brand new player starting for the first time. You already know all the moves of your opponents and their tells. Rank 3 is nothing BTW and to be honest there are alot of bad players that are rank 15+

Rank only tells you how long somone has been playing, not how good they are as a player.

AdeptusLupos
05-29-2017, 11:12 AM
Really? Even when he is behind you?
I never recognized the sign for the guard break when he attacked from the distance when he was not in my field of view.
I will pay attention next time. Maybe I did not recognize it because I focused on the enemies which were in my field of view.

Even if there is a sign for a guard break then it is still unfair when he is not in your field of view because it is hard to see because you do not know that there is an enemy who will attack you.

@ Ontari: :D Orochi is one of the easiest characters to fight against. He needs to play very defensive so you can easily feint him.
Shinobi has his super sprint so no other character can follow him.

Some Shinobis, which were the last surviving teammate at the end of a match, ran across the map for minutes. He was followed by the enemy team and no one could catch them.

Solution to you shinobi running problem is to have the team split up and run in opposite directions around the map to corner the shinobi, or... Just wait, shinobi will automatically lose if he is the only one alive and you have more people alive than the other team.

Weird_Eagle
05-29-2017, 12:25 PM
The dweebs ready to defend him need not bother. I get that you're absolutely enjoying his broken state at the moment.

Please explain this..


No Problem m8
You are too dumb to counter the ranged gb thats all.
Learn to counter it and you are fine.
The only thing on Shinobi that needs adjustment and on centurion aswell is the Staminadrain, thats too hard.
Espacially on Shinobi they need to adjust, after you counter the ranged gb oder parry one of his rangedattacks and he lays phrone to your feets, when you hit him with a havy or light to punish him, he can free gb you after he stands up. You cant tech it.
That needs to be adjusted.

An other thing to look at, in teammodes, is the fact that when he hits a second heavy or after a sucsessfull ranged gb you get onto your knees and he can hit you 3 times with a lightattack.
in the Time where you knee before him, all other Teammembers can spam heavys on you, and you cant do anithing against it.
Its the same as demon embrace from shugoki.

or the never ending stunlock from two centurion, you cant do anithing against this, when they time ther chain right.
But thats an other story.

I think Shinobi is strong, but not unbeatable.
With my Nobushi i only need 2 bleeds and one heavy or one bleed 1-2 lights and a za and he is down.
He is so squishi!!!!
Learn to avoid the kick, counter the ranged gb and you are fine with him.

You must set him under pressure, when you let the shinobi do his jumpingflickflackthing you are ****ed.

But tbh i think the people will whine about shinobi and Centurion till they nerf them to bottom tier.

AAAH and the best thing is that a WARDEN main is complaining about 50/50ties lol

radi0wantcandy
05-29-2017, 09:27 PM
No Problem m8
You are too dumb to counter the ranged gb thats all.
Learn to counter it and you are fine.
The only thing on Shinobi that needs adjustment and on centurion aswell is the Staminadrain, thats too hard.
Espacially on Shinobi they need to adjust, after you counter the ranged gb oder parry one of his rangedattacks and he lays phrone to your feets, when you hit him with a havy or light to punish him, he can free gb you after he stands up. You cant tech it.
That needs to be adjusted.

An other thing to look at, in teammodes, is the fact that when he hits a second heavy or after a sucsessfull ranged gb you get onto your knees and he can hit you 3 times with a lightattack.
in the Time where you knee before him, all other Teammembers can spam heavys on you, and you cant do anithing against it.
Its the same as demon embrace from shugoki.

or the never ending stunlock from two centurion, you cant do anithing against this, when they time ther chain right.
But thats an other story.

I think Shinobi is strong, but not unbeatable.
With my Nobushi i only need 2 bleeds and one heavy or one bleed 1-2 lights and a za and he is down.
He is so squishi!!!!
Learn to avoid the kick, counter the ranged gb and you are fine with him.

You must set him under pressure, when you let the shinobi do his jumpingflickflackthing you are ****ed.

But tbh i think the people will whine about shinobi and Centurion till they nerf them to bottom tier.

AAAH and the best thing is that a WARDEN main is complaining about 50/50ties lol

I almost took you seriously until the warden main jab.

Idgi... What's not straightforward out the Warden?