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View Full Version : Terminology rant



Knight_Raime
05-27-2017, 07:01 PM
Honestly i'm just venting here. No. I'm not a fighter expert. Nor is my view the only one/correct one. At the same time i'm a little annoyed by people taking terms and using them out of place (imo.)

The biggest one is the "50/50." Which according to google basically means that a player does something that forces someone to guess between 2 seperate actions. If you guess wrong you get punished. So it goes without saying that if you can avoid or do any action that trumps both options you're removing guessing. and thus it's not a 50/50.
For honor by default then doesn't have a 50/50 because double back dash gets you out of any situation. But we can go further than that and actually look at the options people call "50/50."

Lawbringer: This "50/50" can be done off of either neutral or a block. But we will say block just so I don't get my head bitten off. LB blocks an attack and shoves. from there he can either GB or light. so it fits the 2 options requirement. However the GB doesn't come out fast enough after a shove. Meaning you will see them try to GB you immediately and it's teched. or you start to see the light and dodge. in order for this to be a real 50 50 you would have to be able to chain the GB right off the shove. but the delay in between the 2 is small enough and the animation is distinct enough that it's just not a thing.

Shinboi: From neutral you can double dash. Which leads to either GB, light light, or kick. That's 3 options. Not a 50/50. Further more you can't access double dash in close range. as someone will just GB you. The kick has to be qued up from the double dash. Meaning if you see him double dash and then see him spinning he's not going to kick. as he's missed the window to do the kick. Specifically because of this it leaves him with either a GB or light light when he's mixing it up coming in on you. Light light will land regardless unless you're a parry god due to it being confirmed from any angle. and being fast as heck. but the GB is pretty techable on reaction since it's a GB from neutral.

Shinobi is situational. and that's why it's not really a 50 50. If the person is dodge happy you "can" mix it up between a kick or a GB. But that's the only time you'll land a GB. Light light is the only one of the 3 that's the most reliable to land from double dodge. Not to mention due to how the double dodge works you'll be forced into certain actions. If you dash to either side and then back you can only kick. GB won't reach. and light light won't either (unless you're double dashing from in their face.)

If you are out of range and double dash into range all 3 options are available. but as said before kick needs to be qued. So you need to kick immediately since you're at range. Makes it more likely for the enemy to see it coming and dodge it. The wait to GB from double dashing in is long enough that it'll be teched. So light light or kick are the options here. and since kick is going to be easier to be dodged light light is better. Basically what i'm getting at is because your options are so dependent on your range regardless of what you have available to you only 1 method is going to be reliable enough to be considered a "guess" option.

Warden: I would have said prior to his last nerf that he's the only one with a 50 50. due to being able to cancel his barge almost at anytime. But the removal of his late barge makes it easier to get out of. Firstly attempting to do the mix up from neutral won't work. it has to be done off of an attack. secondly if you're pretty close to the warden he's more than likely going to cancel and GB vs letting a barge go through. and since he's already GBed you his next barge has to be the one he lets go. otherwise you'll just tech it. and if you know he's going to let the next one fly because of this you can just dash out when he lets go. The only time it's even close to a 50/50 anymore is if you're not directly hugging him. as he can still move a little distance wise and bash you or GB you. since it's so specific on top of being able to just double roll out I don't think it's a 50/50 anymore.

Lets get into the one where I believe is the closest thing to a 50/50 in the game.

Centurion's heavy soft cancel into GB. Like the warden it's got to be from a landed hit. and like the warden you have the ability to change your timing. But there is a lot different here. For one it's a soft cancel. Meaning there is no animation change between me charging and then going for the GB. You have to actually guess what i'm going to do. Second the heavy is an attack. not a bash. so parrying is an option. and lots of people love to try and parry. And because it's an attack I can also make it unblockable. But due to it's charging nature like shugoki the indicator for it being an unblockable WILL show before it actually is one. and I can still cancel up until it's counted as an unblockable for me. Which just further makes you try to guess on wether i'm going to let it fly or GB you.
As i'm writing this there is no physical way for you to determine if i'm going to soft feint into a GB or let it fly. Your best and only reliable option is to double roll out.

But enough on 50/50. lets get into "guess" and "react." A lot of people in regards to 50 50 get the term react wrong. They believe that if you can't dodge or block or parry or w.e 100% of the time it's a guessing game. I know it sounds silly. but this is what I literally saw when the LB "50 50" first came to light. Oh sypher got it wrong once. so he guessed wrong. No. You are human. Humans make errors. That is the equivelent of me saying heavy attacks are not reactable because I land them on people without a gb or a parry occasionally. For honor is 80% reactionary. reactions are built from 2 things. Knowledge. and reflexes. Reflexes are built from repetitive experiences.

So it doesn't matter if all lights in the game can technically be reacted to. If I don't have enough experience (for me) against a peace keeper i'm not going to be able to deal with peace keepers. Just as the top players had virtually no experience with fighting the LB. so they made mistakes. And as i've already elaborated on a guess can't have any tells to it. Technically they can. but it can't be super obvious. like guard breaks. They will never in for honor be apart of a 50 50 because of how they work. their animations are too slow and too pronounced. The only way they can be in a 50 50 is if it's apart of a soft feint. like cents. because then you don't have an incredibly pronounced animation.

Anyway done ranting. if you want to debate with me feel free to. just try and be respectful.