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Xangr8
05-27-2017, 07:15 AM
The Initiates were/are(?) a highly influential organisation with very deep roots; their sole purpose being: to expose information regarding the centuries old war between the Assassins and the Templars. However, I find it weird that such a clandestine organistaion with deep connections and resource comparable to the Templars, if not better, in terms of infrastructure, funding, and leadership, just happens to disappear after two of its moles within the Assassin Order are compromised.

Yes, we learned that the Initiates decided to work with the Assassins but what made them agree to their terms when one of their main tenets is to not interfere in this war between the two secret organisations? We know that they have a proper leadership with far-reaching private connections, so it doesn't really seem plausible that two of their members getting compromised would force their hand and lead to them disregard their motto.

Do you think this is it for the Initiates or is there more to them? Information regarding their origins and internal workings remain shrouded in darkness, even more so than the Instruments, which is pretty ironic considering their raison d'etre.

Moultonborough
05-27-2017, 09:03 AM
Aside from Galina (sp?)they have dropped the Initiates completely. I don't ever expect them to appear in any form.

Sorrosyss
05-27-2017, 10:09 AM
Its a similar situation that happened with Erudito, but they were eventually brought back. I think its safe to say that thematically the Initiates were brought into the story to facilitate the player to take up the generic third party observer role that the Modern Day entailed in Unity and Syndicate. If we take the apparent request to cease communications on face value, then it does suggest that the next game will have a playable character once more in the Modern Day.

As to why they might apparently disappear, Abstergo would likely catch them eventually. Outernet or not, nothing is truly secure when it comes to communications. There is also a possibility that a number of the group are actually Instruments too. That would certainly cause an internal review of the group, just as the Templars and the Assassins are now facing.

ERICATHERINE
05-27-2017, 01:40 PM
If we take the apparent request to cease communications on face value, then it does suggest that the next game will have a playable character once more in the Modern Day.

Maybe, maybe not. Of course I hope we will have a playable 3rd person md ala Desmond back, in the next games, but thing is, unfortunately, Erudito might replace the Initiates in a way we'll be one in first person in the next game. :eek:

Xangr8
05-27-2017, 05:07 PM
Aside from Galina (sp?)they have dropped the Initiates completely. I don't ever expect them to appear in any form.

Lore-wise, Galina was and is an Assassin and was never affiliated with the Initiates at any point. Stephanie Chiu and Eric Cooper are the only Initiates members know to us. Also, seeing how Bishop was made the Initiates' handler and how the writers have portrayed as such an enigmatic and mysterious character, I believe she might have something significant to do with the Initiates.




As to why they might apparently disappear, Abstergo would likely catch them eventually. Outernet or not, nothing is truly secure when it comes to communications. There is also a possibility that a number of the group are actually Instruments too. That would certainly cause an internal review of the group, just as the Templars and the Assassins are now facing.

That sounds plausible. I'm hoping we get to know more about Bishop, she's such as intriguing character. Wonder what she's been up to ever since the Assassins-Initiates program was shut down. She's been entirely missing from the comics and it's as if she just existed in Unity and Syndicate.

SixKeys
05-27-2017, 09:26 PM
The manner in which the Initiates were introduced was freaking dumb. The assassins simply contacted random consumers who bought the Abstergo Entertainment product and exposed highly confidential information to them. "Never compromise the Brotherhood", indeed. :rolleyes: Even if they supposedly did some research into these particular consumers beforehand, to figure out whether they were trustworthy, there is simply no way they could guarantee something like that. It's hard enough to keep an upcoming movie or video game under wraps these days without leaks creeping in, let alone a centuries-old war between two factions that endangers all of humanity.

It was a poorly conceived idea that simply doesn't make sense no matter which way you look at it. I prefer to think of it as non-canon.

LoyalACFan
05-27-2017, 10:03 PM
Maybe I missed something, but I thought they basically just got folded into the Assassins?

Xangr8
05-27-2017, 11:26 PM
The manner in which the Initiates were introduced was freaking dumb. The assassins simply contacted random consumers who bought the Abstergo Entertainment product and exposed highly confidential information to them. "Never compromise the Brotherhood", indeed. :rolleyes: Even if they supposedly did some research into these particular consumers beforehand, to figure out whether they were trustworthy, there is simply no way they could guarantee something like that. It's hard enough to keep an upcoming movie or video game under wraps these days without leaks creeping in, let alone a centuries-old war between two factions that endangers all of humanity.

It was a poorly conceived idea that simply doesn't make sense no matter which way you look at it. I prefer to think of it as non-canon.

I always thought that the Assassins enlisted the aid of existing Initiates members to help them research the memories. The Assassins needed all the help they could get to rebuild their Order after the Great Purge and I'd say that the Initiates played a major role in that

EDIT: I believe that in-universe, the public is already aware of the Assassin-Templar war but not entirely sure about its legitimacy. Erudito already made this revelation to the public back in 2012 when Liberation and the Animus Multiplayer came out. There are obviously people who just brush it off as being nothing more than rumors spread by some person wearing a tin foil hat and that's why not many people take all this seriously within the universe. So the secret is safe to some extent, I guess?



Maybe I missed something, but I thought they basically just got folded into the Assassins?

They did and that's what I find weird. What made the Initiates become a part of the Assassins and agree to their demands? After all, the Initiates were better off already with a ****-ton of resources at their disposal so it's not like they benefited from it in any form. Just two of their members got compromised and the Initiates just decide to go ahead and merge with the Assassins, breaking their principal tenant in the process of never interfering in the Assasin-Templar war.

Farlander1991
05-27-2017, 11:30 PM
Even if they supposedly did some research into these particular consumers beforehand, to figure out whether they were trustworthy, there is simply no way they could guarantee something like that. It's hard enough to keep an upcoming movie or video game under wraps these days without leaks creeping in, let alone a centuries-old war between two factions that endangers all of humanity.

To be fair, general public tends to ignore anything regarding century-old conspiracies, plus leaking a movie or a video-game won't get you killed, unlike exposing powerful secret organizations (and I'm sure Initiates understand that).

ERICATHERINE
05-27-2017, 11:32 PM
The Assassins needed all the help they could get to rebuild their Order after the Great Purge and I'd say that the Initiates played a major role in that.

This. Shaun Hastings contacted them by hacking their websites/database.

Moultonborough
05-28-2017, 10:22 AM
Lore-wise, Galina was and is an Assassin and was never affiliated with the Initiates at any point. Stephanie Chiu and Eric Cooper are the only Initiates members know to us. Also, seeing how Bishop was made the Initiates' handler and how the writers have portrayed as such an enigmatic and mysterious character, I believe she might have something significant to do with the Initiates.

Since I don't read the comics or books as far as I am aware Galina showed up first on the Initiates website. Not a member of them but part of their story.

Xangr8
05-28-2017, 07:33 PM
Since I don't read the comics or books as far as I am aware Galina showed up first on the Initiates website. Not a member of them but part of their story.

Right, I had the Initiates, as in the organisation, in my mind when writing that reply. Yep, Galina's the only one from the website who's been shown in the games and comics.

LoyalACFan
05-31-2017, 11:23 PM
So I just now got around to playing the Jack the Ripper DLC (which turned out to be as lame as I expected, but I digress) and I realized that the Helix glitches give you pieces of MD intel. So, after collecting all 30-something of them for the purpose of this thread (you're welcome) it seems that the Initiates and other civilian allies of the Assassins are being deliberately targeted and sabotaged by Abstergo. Assassin contacts in academia are facing mysterious budget cuts and new curriculum requirements, military contacts are being suddenly redeployed to remote outposts, etc and some Initiates have been hunted down and killed outright. At the suggestion of Assassins Eric Cooper and Jasdip Dhami, Bishop and William enacted the "Rooftop Garden Protocol," cutting all communication with the Initiates for the Initiates' own safety. So it appears that the partnership between Initiates and Assassins is dissolved for the time being, though Bishop said that they may make contact again in the future. So yeah, the writers are keeping the Initiates in their back pocket, but for all intents and purposes, it appears that they won't be returning.

Addendum; the intel unlocked by the Helix glitches comes in the form of emails between the MD Assassins, and in a message to Bishop urging her to cut the Initiates loose for their own safety, Eric Cooper discloses that "our man in Montreal is dead." So it seems that our beloved floating iPad from AC4 may have breathed his last.

SixKeys
06-01-2017, 02:47 AM
Addendum; the intel unlocked by the Helix glitches comes in the form of emails between the MD Assassins, and in a message to Bishop urging her to cut the Initiates loose for their own safety, Eric Cooper discloses that "our man in Montreal is dead." So it seems that our beloved floating iPad from AC4 may have breathed his last.

That would be assuming that the floating tablet is, in fact, a man. That would make no sense considering the AC4 and Rogue protagonist is supposed to be "us", meaning any gender. I think that quote is referring to someone else.

LoyalACFan
06-01-2017, 03:32 PM
That would be assuming that the floating tablet is, in fact, a man. That would make no sense considering the AC4 and Rogue protagonist is supposed to be "us", meaning any gender. I think that quote is referring to someone else.

But wasn't it you who pointed out that the Tablet Wielder lets out an unmistakably male grunt while being held hostage by John from IT? Pretty sure the devs always treated Tablet Wielder as a male character internally. Either way, it wouldn't be the first time they retconned a "play-as-you" avatar into an actual identifiable character (Otso Berg from ACB Multiplayer). Anyway, logically, it can only be Tablet Wielder. TW's an Assassin-affiliated Initiate in Montreal, and Eric made it sound like there was only one Assassin-affiliated Initiate in Montreal (he didn't say one of our men in Montreal is dead).

Requiescat in pace, Tablet Wielder

ERICATHERINE
06-01-2017, 08:23 PM
So I just now got around to playing the Jack the Ripper DLC (which turned out to be as lame as I expected, but I digress) and I realized that the Helix glitches give you pieces of MD intel. So, after collecting all 30-something of them for the purpose of this thread (you're welcome) it seems that the Initiates and other civilian allies of the Assassins are being deliberately targeted and sabotaged by Abstergo. Assassin contacts in academia are facing mysterious budget cuts and new curriculum requirements, military contacts are being suddenly redeployed to remote outposts, etc and some Initiates have been hunted down and killed outright. At the suggestion of Assassins Eric Cooper and Jasdip Dhami, Bishop and William enacted the "Rooftop Garden Protocol," cutting all communication with the Initiates for the Initiates' own safety. So it appears that the partnership between Initiates and Assassins is dissolved for the time being, though Bishop said that they may make contact again in the future. So yeah, the writers are keeping the Initiates in their back pocket, but for all intents and purposes, it appears that they won't be returning.

Addendum; the intel unlocked by the Helix glitches comes in the form of emails between the MD Assassins, and in a message to Bishop urging her to cut the Initiates loose for their own safety, Eric Cooper discloses that "our man in Montreal is dead." So it seems that our beloved floating iPad from AC4 may have breathed his last.

If you knew you wouldn't love it, you could have just searched for this video, just so you know. :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwWZICVPRqk

LoyalACFan
06-02-2017, 06:42 AM
If you knew you wouldn't love it, you could have just searched for this video, just so you know. :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwWZICVPRqk

Yeah, I didn't know the Assassin intel was a thing until I had already bought the DLC (Syndicate's season pass was on sale last week for $9 on PS Plus and I was bored, so I caved) and by that point I was already in too deep :p

ERICATHERINE
06-02-2017, 07:09 AM
Yeah, I didn't know the Assassin intel was a thing until I had already bought the DLC (Syndicate's season pass was on sale last week for $9 on PS Plus and I was bored, so I caved) and by that point I was already in too deep :p

Well, if you don't want to replay the dlc, but still want the possibility to read the Assassin's intels of it while having erased your data to do a new game of syndicate, don't forget that video. It could come in andy should the time come. ^-^