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SK-LorD4rk
05-27-2017, 04:01 AM
Hi guys, as a few of you know I'm a passionate fan of this game and an avid (semi-competitive) player.
I also fully recognize the two core issues (network and heroes balance) of the game.

That being said, the idea behind this post is to help mitigate several controversial side effects we have in the current state of the game, by:


1. Transform the stale (wait to react) core gameplay of the ‘Defensive Meta’ into a more fluid battle system, similar to what we have in competitive fighting games;

2. Rework existing sub-systems (Feats, Gear Stats, Revenge) to guarantee a better balanced game;

3. Create new sub-systems to leverage the proposed changes;

4. Amplify the game popularity and competitive/tournament scene by making the "easy to learn - hard to master" philosophy broader

DISCLAIMER: Please read the entire post before comment, because the balance only makes sense when you read it as a whole, not by pinpointing specific mechanical changes ideas. Also, this post does not address specific class balance changes needed now (top priority) nor the even further balances that would be needed in order for this new system to work properly.

GLOSSARY

• ASN = Assassin class (Berserk, Orochi, Peacekeeper, Shinobi)
• VFH = Vanguard/Fast Hybrid class (Centurion, Kensei, Raider, Warden, Nobushi, Valkyrie)
• HSH = Heavy/Slow Hybrid class (Conqueror, Lawbringer, Shugoki, Warlord)
• CGB = Counter Guard Break
• GB = Guard Break
• LA = Light Attack
• HA = Heavy Attack
• nZA = new Zone Attack (new mechanic)
• OOS = Out Of Stamina
• UHA = Unblockable Heavy Attack (new mechanic)


MECHANICS CHANGES [CORE]


• BLOCK

heroes can only block LA and HA

• all forms of block above results in respective chip damage
block LA or HA does not interrupt the attack chain

• only the Conqueror hero can block-interrupt a LA, but never a HA
heroes can not block UHA or nZA
convert the Guard mode for all heroes into the Reflexive Guard used by ASN

• ASN heroes use the strict timed Guard of the Shinobi hero to block
block LA drains stamina (small) from the attacker <- to address LA spam
block HA drains stamina (small) from the defender <- to address turtle playstyle
block HA increases the GAUGE bar of the attacker in 1v1 or 2v2 modes
block HA increases the REVENGE bar of the defender in 4x4 modes


• PARRY


heroes can only parry LA, UHA or nZA
heroes can not parry HA
parry a LA grants a guaranteed GB
parry a UHA grants a non-guaranteed GB


• DODGE


heroes can dodge LA, HA, UHA and nZA
heroes can not dodge GB
dodge is an universal move (similar speed/tracking) and all classes can dodge all attacks

• ASN can perform:

• dodge + LA (guaranteed)
• dodge + HA (non-guaranteed) <- except for Peacekeeper
• dodge + UHA (non-guaranteed)
• VFH can perform:

• dodge + LA (non-guaranteed)
• dodge + HA (non-guaranteed)
• HSH can perform:

• dodge + LA (non-guaranteed)
dodging the first 2x times cost no stamina (internal cool down of 1.5s)

• subsequent dodging in a chain costs stamina <- to address dodge spam

• GUARD BREAK (GB)

heroes can GB from neutral or during opponent’s dodge, HA or UHA

• GB has priority over dodge, HA, UHA and nZA
• GB does not have priority over LA
heroes can not GB during opponent’s LA
GB costs stamina (small) to perform

• a ‘missed’ GB (empty GB) costs double stamina <- to address GB spam
GB (if not CGB) guarantees a LA or throw
GB (if not CGB) do not guarantees a HA, UHA or nZA

• COUNTER GUARD BREAK (CGB)

maintain the current CGB system, with minor adjustments:

• CGB does not cost stamina to perform
• CGB drains stamina from attacker

• FEINT

maintain the current feint system, with minor adjustments:

• costs less stamina to perform
heroes can feint HAs
heroes can not feint LA or nZA
HSH (only) heroes can feint UHA

• STAMINA

OOS heroes can block, CGB or LA (slow)
OOS heroes can not HA, UHA, nZA
OOS heroes can not dodge, GB, run <- unless specified in the hero Feat
stamina rebalance <- based on patch 1.07

• all chars receives a stamina buff of +25%
• all chars receive a stamina cost reduction of -10%

• Light Attack (LA)

ASN heroes

• make all LA 1st hit in a chain be 400ms (12f) for 15 dmg
• make all LA 2nd hit in a chain be 366ms (11f) for 12 dmg
• make all LA 3rd hit in a chain be 333ms(10f) for 10 dmg
VFH heroes

• make all LA 1st hit in a chain be 500ms (15f) for 18 dmg
• make all LA 2nd hit in a chain be 433ms (13f) for 14 dmg
• make all LA 3rd hit in a chain be 400ms (12f) for 12 dmg
HSH heroes

• make all LA 1st hit in a chain be 600ms(18f) for 21 dmg
• make all LA 2nd hit in a chain be 533ms(16f) for 17 dmg
• make all LA 3rd hit in a chain be 500ms(15f) for 15 dmg

• Heavy Attack (HA)

ASN heroes

• make all HA 1st hit in a chain be 600ms (18f) for 24 dmg
• make all HA 2nd hit in a chain be 566ms (17f) for 21 dmg
• make all HA 3rd hit in a chain be 533ms (16f) for 19 dmg
VFH heroes

• make all HA 1st hit in a chain be 700ms (21f) for 27 dmg
• make all HA 2nd hit in a chain be 633ms (19f) for 23 dmg
• make all HA 3rd hit in a chain be 600ms (18f) for 21 dmg
HSH heroes

• make all HA 1st hit in a chain be 800ms (24f) for 30 dmg
• make all HA 2nd hit in a chain be 733ms (22f) for 26 dmg
• make all HA 3rd hit in a chain be 700ms (21f) for 24 dmg

• Zone Attack (ZA)

Remove current ZA from the game <- check nZA tab for more info



MECHANICS CHANGES (SUPPORT)


• Revenge Mode (4x4 only)

maintain the current revenge system, with small adjustments:

• revenge is disabled in 1v1 and 2v2 modes <-- check GAUGE tab for more info
• revenge is equally generated across all heroes

• increase Revenge Gain exponentially: 1v2/3/4
hero can only be GB or stunned from the enemy he locks-in to fight

• GEAR Stats (4x4 modes only)

maintain the current gear system, with small adjustments:

• gear no longer increases/decreases Revenge gain

• this is controlled internally, equally to all heroes, by the game engine
gear piece now allow you to socket a feat

• Feats System (4x4 only)

remove the current feat system from the game
new system incorporate feats on gear

• each hero can equip a maximum of 6 feats, one per gear slot
• there is no cost associate to equip or un-equip a feat on a gear piece
feats are locked under reputation level

• 18 feats per hero

• R1: unlocks 1-6 basic feats
• R2: unlocks 7-12 intermediate feats
• R3: unlocks 13-18 advanced feats
there must be relevant and balanced feats to choose from and to add dept, so players can further customize their builds <- think about this as the items in DOTA2

• ASN: feats focused on 1x1 kills
• Vanguard: feats focused to buff minions/teammates and debuff enemies
• Hybrid: mix from other classes (their weaker feats) and their own hybrid specialized feats
• Heavy: feats focused on tank (armor/life/auto-healing), revive etc


NEW MECHANICS


• Chip Damage

chip damage only computes against a blocked LA or HA
LA chip damage counts as 5% of the damage
HA chip damage counts as 10% of the damage

• Unblockable Heavy Attack (UHA)

all HAs can be charged (delayed) to fluidly transform into an Unblockable HA <-similar to what Centurion has now
heroes can parry or dodge an UHA to connect a guaranteed LA or a non-guaranteed GB or HA
UHA costs 100% more stamina than the normal HA to perform and hit for 75% more damage

• Gauge System (Duels and Brawls modes only)

gauge is generated by

• def: block a LA (tiny amount)
• def: parry a LA (huge amount)

• parry an UHA does not earn gauge
• atk: connects a HA (small amount)
• atk: connects a UHA (medium amount)
when gauge mode is on (~10s)

• reduce stamina cost by 25% for all attacks
• gain access to nZA

• Focus System (Dominion mode only)

heroes can only enter in focus mode when he/she is the last survivor of the broken team

• focus mode is auto activated when the conditions allows

• team is broken AND in a 1v2/3/4 battle
• focus mode is auto deactivated when the condition allow

• team is not broken OR in a 1x1 duel
when focus mode is on

• hero can only be GB or stunned from the enemy he locks-in to fight
• hero no longer loses stamina
• hero gains 25% more damage
• hero gains 50% more defense
gain access to nZA

• new Zone Attack (nZA)

this system also replaces the current Zone Attack (ZA) from the game for all heroes
heroes can only use nZA while the GAUGE or FOCUS triggers

• nZA uses the same current ZA animations with proper speed-up and damage increase adjustments
nZA are balanced in a per hero basis to guarantee fair tradeoff

• slightly faster + little less damage
• slightly slow + little more damage
nZA always gain super armor <- can not be interrupted by another attack



CLOSING NOTES

For those who believe these changes seems to much SF/MK-ish and a little DOTA-ish oriented. Yes, I agree to an extent. So, with all the normalization and mechanics revamp I've proposed above, you might ask how can heroes stand out on their own in For Honor? This is a valid concern and my answer to this is: by improving the heroes TOOLKIT.

Ubi needs to, not only balance everything mentioned to guarantee fair play and work on the nuances of every hero (speed, dmg, hp etc), but also guarantee they are fun to play and posses the tools to perform basic, core and specialized functions efficiently. A good start point would be to bring the Toolkit (characters moveset) of the original characters to be on par with the two recently released ones.


-rih

bmason1000
05-27-2017, 04:48 AM
On the one hand, i like a lot of this. On the other, it is VERY street fighter traditional fighter sort of talk. The focus/gauge system I'm not too big on but i don't have an idea to replace it with at this time. No matter what my opinion is you clearly put a lot of thought and work in to this and its very commendable. I really wouldn't be surprised if the inevitable FH2 in a coupe years was a complete overhaul of the game to be something similar to this outline.

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-27-2017, 05:16 AM
Hi guys, as a few of you know I'm a passionate fan of this game and an avid (semi-competitive) player.
I also fully recognize the two core issues (network and heroes balance) of the game.

That being said, the idea behind this post is to help mitigate several controversial side effects we have in the current state of the game, by:


1. Transform the stale (wait to react) core gameplay of the ‘Defensive Meta’ into a more fluid battle system, similar to what we have in competitive fighting games;

2. Rework existing sub-systems (Feats, Gear Stats, Revenge) to guarantee a better balanced game;

3. Create new sub-systems to leverage the previously proposed changes;

4. Amplify the game popularity and competitive/tournament scene by making the "easy to learn - hard to master" philosophy broader

DISCLAIMER: Please read the entire post before comment, because the balance only makes sense when you read it as a whole, not by pinpointing specific mechanical changes ideas. Also, this post does not address specific class balance changes needed now (top priority) nor the even further balances that would be needed in order for this new system to work properly.

GLOSSARY

• ASN = Assassin class (Berserk, Orochi, Peacekeeper, Shinobi)
• VFH = Vanguard/Fast Hybrid class (Centurion, Kensei, Raider, Warden, Nobushi, Valkyrie)
• HSH = Heavy/Slow Hybrid class (Conqueror, Lawbringer, Shugoki, Warlord)
• CGB = Counter Guard Break
• GB = Guard Break
• LA = Light Attack
• HA = Heavy Attack
• nZA = new Zone Attack (new mechanic)
• OOS = Out Of Stamina
• UHA = Unblockable Heavy Attack (new mechanic)


MECHANICS CHANGES [CORE]


• BLOCK

heroes can only block LA and HA

• all forms of block above results in respective chip damage
block LA or HA does not interrupt the attack chain

• only the Conqueror hero can block-interrupt a LA, but never a HA
heroes can not block UHA or nZA
convert the Guard mode for all heroes into the Reflexive Guard used by ASN

• ASN heroes use the strict timed Guard of the Shinobi hero to block
block LA drains stamina (small) from the attacker <- to address LA spam
block HA drains stamina (small) from the defender <- to address turtle playstyle
block HA increases the GAUGE bar of the attacker in 1v1 or 2v2 modes
block HA increases the REVENGE bar of the defender in 4x4 modes


• PARRY


heroes can only parry LA, UHA or nZA
heroes can not parry HA
parry a LA grants a guaranteed GB
parry a UHA grants a non-guaranteed GB


• DODGE


heroes can dodge LA, HA, UHA and nZA
heroes can not dodge GB
dodge is an universal move (similar speed/tracking) and all classes can dodge all attacks

• ASN can perform:

• dodge + LA (guaranteed)
• dodge + HA (non-guaranteed) <- except for Peacekeeper
• dodge + UHAs (non-guaranteed)
• VFH can perform:

• dodge + LA (non-guaranteed)
• dodge + HA (non-guaranteed)
• HSH can perform:

• dodge + LA (non-guaranteed)
dodging the first 2x times cost no stamina (internal cool down of 1.5s)

• subsequent dodging in a chain costs stamina <- to address dodge spam

• GUARD BREAK (GB)

heroes can GB from neutral or during opponent’s dodge, HA or UHA

• GB has priority over dodge, HA, UHA and nZA
• GB does not have priority over LA
heroes can not GB during opponent’s LA
GB costs stamina (small) to perform

• a ‘missed’ GB (empty GB) costs double stamina <- to address GB spam
GB (if not CGB) guarantees a LA or throw
GB (if not CGB) do not guarantees a HA, UHA or nZA

• COUNTER GUARD BREAK (CGB)

maintain the current CGB system, with minor adjustments:

• CGB does not cost stamina to perform
• CGB drains stamina from attacker

• FEINT

maintain the current feint system, with minor adjustments:

• costs less stamina to perform
heroes can feint HAs
heroes can not feint LA or nZA
HSH (only) heroes can feint UHA

• STAMINA

OOS heroes can block, CGB or LA (slow)
OOS heroes can not HA, UHA, nZA
OOS heroes can not dodge, GB, run <- unless specified in the hero Feat
stamina rebalance <- based on patch 1.07

• all chars receives a stamina buff of +25%
• all chars receive a stamina cost reduction of -10%

• Light Attack (LA)

ASN heroes

• make all LA 1st hit in a chain be 400ms (12f) for 15 dmg
• make all LA 2nd hit in a chain be 366ms (11f) for 12 dmg
• make all LA 3rd hit in a chain be 333ms(10f) for 10 dmg
VFH heroes

• make all LA 1st hit in a chain be 500ms (15f) for 18 dmg
• make all LA 2nd hit in a chain be 433ms (13f) for 14 dmg
• make all LA 3rd hit in a chain be 400ms (12f) for 12 dmg
HSH heroes

• make all LA 1st hit in a chain be 600ms(18f) for 21 dmg
• make all LA 2nd hit in a chain be 533ms(16f) for 17 dmg
• make all LA 3rd hit in a chain be 500ms(15f) for 15 dmg

• Heavy Attack (HA)

ASN heroes

• make all HA 1st hit in a chain be 600ms (18f) for 24 dmg
• make all HA 2nd hit in a chain be 566ms (17f) for 21 dmg
• make all HA 3rd hit in a chain be 533ms (16f) for 19 dmg
VFH heroes

• make all HA 1st hit in a chain be 700ms and do 27 dmg
• make all HA 2nd hit in a chain be 633ms and do 23 dmg
• make all HA 3rd hit in a chain be 600ms and do 21 dmg
HSH heroes

• make all HA 1st hit in a chain be 800ms (24f) for 30 dmg
• make all HA 2nd hit in a chain be 733ms (22f) for 26 dmg
• make all HA 3rd hit in a chain be 700ms (21f) for 24 dmg

• Zone Attack (ZA)

Remove current ZA from the game <- check nZA tab for more info



MECHANICS CHANGES (SUPPORT)


• Revenge Mode (4x4 only)

maintain the current revenge system, with small adjustments:

• revenge can never be generated in 1v1 duels
• revenge is equally generated across all heroes

• increase Revenge Gain exponentially: 1v2/3/4
hero can only be GB or stunned from the enemy he locks-in to fight

• GEAR Stats (4x4 modes only)

maintain the current gear system, with small adjustments:

• gear no longer increases/decreases Revenge gain

• this is controlled internally, equally to all heroes, by the game engine
gear piece now allow you to socket a feat

• Feats System (4x4 only)

remove current FEAT system from the game
new system incorporate feats on gear

• each hero can equip a maximum of 6 feats, one per gear slot
• there is no cost associate to equip or un-equip a feat on a gear piece
feats are locked under reputation level

• 18 feats per hero

• R1: unlocks 6 feats
• R2: unlocks 12 feats
• R3: unlocks all feats for the hero
there must be relevant, but balanced feats to choose from, so players can further customize their builds <- think about this as the items in DOTA2

• ASN: feats focused on 1x1 kills
• Vanguard: feats focused to buff minions/teammates and debuff enemies
• Hybrid: mix from other classes (weaker) feats and their own specialized feats
• Heavy: feats focused on tank (armor/life/auto-healing), revive etc


NEW MECHANICS


• Chip Damage

chip damage only computes against a blocked LA or HA
LA chip damage counts as 5% of the damage
HA chip damage counts as 10% of the damage

• Unblockable Heavy Attack (UHA)

all HAs can be charged (delayed) to fluidly transform into an Unblockable HA <-similar to what Centurion has now
heroes can parry or dodge an UHA to connect a guaranteed LA or a non-guaranteed GB or HA
UHA costs 100% more stamina than the normal HA to perform and hit for 75% more damage

• Gauge System (Duels and Brawls modes only)

gauge is generated by

• def: block a LA (tiny amount)
• def: parry a LA (huge amount)

• parried HA or UHA does not earn gauge
• atk: connects a HA (small amount)
• atk: connects a UHA (medium amount)
when gauge mode is on (~10s)

• reduce stamina cost by 25% for all attacks
• gain access to nZA

• Focus System (Dominion mode only)

heroes can only enter in focus mode when he/she is the last survivor of the broken team

• focused mode is auto activated when the conditions allows

• team is broken AND in a 1v2/3/4 battle
• focused mode is auto deactivated when the condition allow

• team is not broken OR in a 1x1 duel
when focused mode is on

• hero can only be GB or stunned from the enemy he locks-in to fight
• hero no longer loses stamina
• hero gains 25% more damage
• hero gains 50% more defense
gain access to nZA

• new Zone Attack (nZA)

this system also replaces the current Zone Attack (ZA) from the game for all heroes
heroes can only use nZA while in GAUGE or FOCUSED modes

• nZA uses the same current ZA animations with proper speed-up and damage increase adjustments
nZA are balanced in a per hero basis to guarantee fair tradeoff

• slightly faster + little less damage
• slightly slow + little more damage
nZA always gain super armor <- can not be interrupted by another attack



CLOSING NOTES

For those who believe these changes seems to much SF/MK-ish and a little DOTA-ish oriented. Yes, I agree to an extent. So, with all the normalization and mechanics revamp I've proposed above, you might ask how can heroes stand out on their own in For Honor? This is a valid concern and my answer to this is: by improving the heroes TOOLKIT.

Ubi needs to, not only balance everything mentioned to guarantee fair play and work on the nuances of every hero (speed, dmg, hp etc), but also guarantee they are fun to play and posses the tools to perform basic, core and specialized functions efficiently. A good start point would be to bring the Toolkit (characters moveset) of the original characters to be on par with the two recently released ones.


-rih

Nice post, and i agree about how boring is to play vs some people who just wait you to attack, thats THE MOST annoying thing in the game, all about defense, game should be balanced at 50/50% or at least around where attack will be rewarded with something not only defense, so we will see. Shinobi manage to kick out a bit of that turtle meta, we will see what will hapened in the future.

kanuzira
05-27-2017, 06:31 AM
Tho I like the general way you made 8t is needs adjustments. If I look at your light combo there is no way to humanly block that since it goes so fast your brain can't process is before you can take action

EDG_Avocado
05-27-2017, 03:20 PM
LUL dis game needs to become free to play

bmason1000
05-27-2017, 03:23 PM
LUL dis game needs to become free to play

What is that going to accomplish? Larger player base, sure, i get that. How about the actual game itself? What does that fix?

bmason1000
05-27-2017, 03:28 PM
Tho I like the general way you made 8t is needs adjustments. If I look at your light combo there is no way to humanly block that since it goes so fast your brain can't process is before you can take action

That's definitely the case in the assassin section, good catch. I like the idea of more standardization amongst heroes, but maybe its not the way to go. If only THIS game existed and we could test it haha

SK-LorD4rk
05-27-2017, 04:23 PM
On the one hand, i like a lot of this. On the other, it is VERY street fighter traditional fighter sort of talk. The focus/gauge system I'm not too big on but i don't have an idea to replace it with at this time.

Yes, I mentioned that relation with competitive fighting games. But I don't believe the proposed changes would make it a new "SF game" per se. Ubisoft itself already stated that they see the Revenge system as a "super gauge bar from traditional fighting games" - I'm only proposing to expand and balance it.


No matter what my opinion is you clearly put a lot of thought and work in to this and its very commendable. I really wouldn't be surprised if the inevitable FH2 in a coupe years was a complete overhaul of the game to be something similar to this outline.

Thank you. My hope is that this IP can become a huge franchise - it certainly has the potential to be one - and gather enough support from investors/Ubisoft.

SK-LorD4rk
05-27-2017, 04:25 PM
Nice post, and i agree about how boring is to play vs some people who just wait you to attack, thats THE MOST annoying thing in the game, all about defense, game should be balanced at 50/50% or at least around where attack will be rewarded with something not only defense, so we will see. Shinobi manage to kick out a bit of that turtle meta, we will see what will hapened in the future.

Exactly. They need to bring the original characters toolkit to be on par with the new heroes.

SK-LorD4rk
05-27-2017, 04:34 PM
Tho I like the general way you made 8t is needs adjustments. If I look at your light combo there is no way to humanly block that since it goes so fast your brain can't process is before you can take action

Actually it is quite doable (from a competitive fighting game scene perspective).

A combo start (LA) @ 12f it's easy and puts your reaction mindset in defensive mode, so reacting to the follow-up @ 11f is also doable. The third hit (with lowest damage) was balanced to be very hard to defend against - even in defensive mode - so combos are meaningful.

Of course this are 100% up to the Devs to decide based on their metadata: let's not forget they released PK's ZA from neutral @ 9f (300ms).

PS: Reaction time for low damage attacks in fighting games from neutral usually sits around: 266-333ms.

SK-LorD4rk
05-27-2017, 04:39 PM
That's definitely the case in the assassin section, good catch. I like the idea of more standardization amongst heroes, but maybe its not the way to go. If only THIS game existed and we could test it haha

I agree that testing everything before, specially major game mechanics changes, is always the best way to go. Their recently announced test server would definitely help us all on that front.

Tipertuba
05-28-2017, 09:49 PM
These are some great ideas and they are a great way on achieving a more balanced game.. we need some way to have more options on the fighting..
great job on putting all these together Rih!

XxHunterHxX
05-28-2017, 09:56 PM
I like the part where you point out that For Honor is trash and they need to change 90% of the game !

UbiJurassic
05-28-2017, 11:28 PM
Wow, this is great, detailed feedback. Thanks for taking the time to write this up and share it with everyone, RihSiCk4. I'll make a note of it to pass along to the team.

SK-LorD4rk
05-28-2017, 11:42 PM
These are some great ideas and they are a great way on achieving a more balanced game.. we need some way to have more options on the fighting..
great job on putting all these together Rih!

Thanks buddy. Let's make this game better and better.

SK-LorD4rk
05-28-2017, 11:44 PM
Wow, this is great, detailed feedback. Thanks for taking the time to write this up and share it with everyone, RihSiCk4. I'll make a note of it to pass along to the team.

Thank you! Count on me to help improve the game to its full potential!

TheLastPandaa
05-28-2017, 11:55 PM
I like many things. I do not know if all the changes will make the game better, but for sure Ubisoft team should take a look to it so maybe they could take some ideas.
Good Job man!

UbiJurassic
05-28-2017, 11:59 PM
Thank you! Count on me to help improve the game to its full potential!

No problem, we're always looking to work with dedicated players who are able to provide us detailed, thoughtful feedback like this. :)

CrunaCross
05-29-2017, 12:22 AM
I can think of one thing that also would need some attention.
Balancing and mechanics are things that can be looked at, but game modes make the game really.

Since we have a very limited amount of game modes with the exception of Dominion everything is mostly the same, we are completely lacking a real big game mode.

UT 2004 comes in my mind with the Assault mode! Two teams, defenders and attackers assaulting and defending key areas, and once those fall, the defenders move inwards to defend the next position.

In Story Mode we have that Viking mission when we are storming the Samurai stronghold.

A huge battle, moving deeper and deeper inside the fortress.

I saw similar game modes in Guild Wars 1 with different rules and objectives.

So I was thinking about a game mode like that, walls are defended untill breached, inner walls defended, stronghold defended.

bmason1000
05-29-2017, 12:27 AM
I can think of one thing that also would need some attention.
Balancing and mechanics are things that can be looked at, but game modes make the game really.

Since we have a very limited amount of game modes with the exception of Dominion everything is mostly the same, we are completely lacking a real big game mode.

UT 2004 comes in my mind with the Assault mode! Two teams, defenders and attackers assaulting and defending key areas, and once those fall, the defenders move inwards to defend the next position.

In Story Mode we have that Viking mission when we are storming the Samurai stronghold.

A huge battle, moving deeper and deeper inside the fortress.

I saw similar game modes in Guild Wars 1 with different rules and objectives.

So I was thinking about a game mode like that, walls are defended untill breached, inner walls defended, stronghold defended.
There's something like that in battlefront, too. I think with FH's themes and setting it really fits in.

SK-LorD4rk
05-29-2017, 05:50 AM
I like many things. I do not know if all the changes will make the game better, but for sure Ubisoft team should take a look to it so maybe they could take some ideas.
Good Job man!

Thank you Pandaa!

Nebus5050
05-29-2017, 04:36 PM
I really like your ideas!! :D
Maybe they don't work or are boring to play, but who knows?
And BTW adjusting Conqueror to your "For Honor 2.0" will be a little nightmere for the dev team.
Keep the good work!

Existentialmeme
05-29-2017, 05:18 PM
Hi guys, as a few of you know I'm a passionate fan of this game and an avid (semi-competitive) player.
I also fully recognize the two core issues (network and heroes balance) of the game.

That being said, the idea behind this post is to help mitigate several controversial side effects we have in the current state of the game, by:


1. Transform the stale (wait to react) core gameplay of the ‘Defensive Meta’ into a more fluid battle system, similar to what we have in competitive fighting games;

2. Rework existing sub-systems (Feats, Gear Stats, Revenge) to guarantee a better balanced game;

3. Create new sub-systems to leverage the proposed changes;

4. Amplify the game popularity and competitive/tournament scene by making the "easy to learn - hard to master" philosophy broader

DISCLAIMER: Please read the entire post before comment, because the balance only makes sense when you read it as a whole, not by pinpointing specific mechanical changes ideas. Also, this post does not address specific class balance changes needed now (top priority) nor the even further balances that would be needed in order for this new system to work properly.

GLOSSARY

• ASN = Assassin class (Berserk, Orochi, Peacekeeper, Shinobi)
• VFH = Vanguard/Fast Hybrid class (Centurion, Kensei, Raider, Warden, Nobushi, Valkyrie)
• HSH = Heavy/Slow Hybrid class (Conqueror, Lawbringer, Shugoki, Warlord)
• CGB = Counter Guard Break
• GB = Guard Break
• LA = Light Attack
• HA = Heavy Attack
• nZA = new Zone Attack (new mechanic)
• OOS = Out Of Stamina
• UHA = Unblockable Heavy Attack (new mechanic)

• Feats System (4x4 only)

remove the current feat system from the game
new system incorporate feats on gear

• each hero can equip a maximum of 6 feats, one per gear slot
• there is no cost associate to equip or un-equip a feat on a gear piece
feats are locked under reputation level

• 18 feats per hero

• R1: unlocks 1-6 basic feats
• R2: unlocks 7-12 intermediate feats
• R3: unlocks 13-18 advanced feats
there must be relevant and balanced feats to choose from and to add dept, so players can further customize their builds <- think about this as the items in DOTA2

• ASN: feats focused on 1x1 kills
• Vanguard: feats focused to buff minions/teammates and debuff enemies
• Hybrid: mix from other classes (their weaker feats) and their own hybrid specialized feats
• Heavy: feats focused on tank (armor/life/auto-healing), revive etc[/INDENT]

• Focus System (Dominion mode only)

heroes can only enter in focus mode when he/she is the last survivor of the broken team

• focus mode is auto activated when the conditions allows
[INDENT]• team is broken AND in a 1v2/3/4 battle
• focus mode is auto deactivated when the condition allow

• team is not broken OR in a 1x1 duel
when focus mode is on

• hero can only be GB or stunned from the enemy he locks-in to fight
• hero no longer loses stamina
• hero gains 25% more damage
• hero gains 50% more defense




-rih

I Like the new feat system and the focus mode you proposed, except the part of not losing stamina, that would be too much I think.
But the rest take out too much of the uniqueness of heroes... also it would be way too much to change, mind as well make a new game at that point. :P

bmason1000
05-29-2017, 05:39 PM
I Like the new feat system and the focus mode you proposed, except the part of not losing stamina, that would be too much I think.
But the rest take out too much of the uniqueness of heroes... also it would be way too much to change, mind as well make a new game at that point. :P

I think that's the idea. For Honor 2.0 as in FH2...i think...

SK-LorD4rk
05-29-2017, 06:52 PM
I really like your ideas!! :D
Maybe they don't work or are boring to play, but who knows?
And BTW adjusting Conqueror to your "For Honor 2.0" will be a little nightmere for the dev team.
Keep the good work!

Thanks Nebus. I would be definitely hard and very time consuming to put all these changes and balances in place. The idea here is just to give Devs "food for thought" against the boring Defensive Meta and general ideas to expand the game mechanics.

SK-LorD4rk
05-29-2017, 07:07 PM
I Like the new feat system and the focus mode you proposed, except the part of not losing stamina, that would be too much I think.
But the rest take out too much of the uniqueness of heroes... also it would be way too much to change, mind as well make a new game at that point. :P

Hello Existentialmeme, thanks.

In the end, I'm merely proposing that universal mechanics should, you know, be universal.

I disagree regarding the proposed changes removing the uniqueness of the heroes. Let me explain the reasoning behind:

As in any competitive fighting game, the sense of uniqueness should come from the heroes Toolkit and, in the case of FH, could be also further expanded in 4x4 modes by the new Feats system proposed so people can create and customize builds.

Look at how much better the Centurion and the Shinobi "feel and play" in terms of uniqueness, that's because their Toolkit options are broader compared to the original cast. Expanding (focus on balancing ofc) the original characters Toolkit is the way to go to leverage uniqueness, not the other way around.

I firmly don't believe that uniqueness of heroes should be attached to universal mechanics like a LA or a HA etc - and sure you can adjust these to be unique just fine as well. I would enjoy this game much more if Peacekeepers and Orochis hit for the same/similar LA damage/speed, but each one had several more unique moves on their Toolkit to differentiate each other, rather them a difference in a LA hit's reach, dmg and speed.

SK-LorD4rk
05-29-2017, 07:13 PM
I think that's the idea. For Honor 2.0 as in FH2...i think...

NOPE! The Defensive Meta is a huge problem and needs to be addressed asap! Not in the next Installment!

PS: The "2.0" is a common nomenclature that we use when referring to big changes within software. Most recently, Blizzard used it to launch "Heroes of the Storm 2.0".