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View Full Version : I don't often complain about PUG groups but come ON guys



CandleInTheDark
05-25-2017, 08:08 PM
With my peacekeeper in epic gear, I am working on getting my warden there for the times I see my team filling up with people that leave me, as said peacekeeper, the tankiest class on our team, so I spend a lot of time soldier clearing if I am not holding zone. There are times, and I am running into a lot of them, that I hold three or even four of the other team on me for like twenty seconds and...no one takes a zone. If y'all alive and not helping me out and not taking a zone what the heck you doing? lol

But it's ok, I got us five points accidentally killing those soldiers while dealing with that charlie foxtrot.

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Edit
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In before if only we had old revenge, I still prefer it the way it is.

ViciousOphidian
05-25-2017, 08:18 PM
Matches last 5 minutes. There is no time for such advanced strategies. Just roam as 4.
.

CandleInTheDark
05-25-2017, 08:21 PM
Matches last 5 minutes. There is no time for such advanced strategies. Just roam as 4.
.

Yeah...except no. As much as I am complaining about them doing nothing on this and a few other occasions, there are times when I have invaded the enemy's last controlled zone, seen three coming at me and done nothing but dodge for 60-90 seconds making three people work very hard to get hold of me while keeping that zone white. What do you think happened to the score in that time?

Spoiler, 350 points net gain for my team, half a minute later, opponents breaking and lost from a situation they were originally on equal points.

Gray360UK
05-25-2017, 08:23 PM
This has always been the case with games that have PUG Groups. My World of Warcraft days are a fading memory but I still vividly remember the agony of running an instance, or worse a raid, with a PUG group. Some things never change ;)

ArlianDeBias
05-25-2017, 09:07 PM
There are times, and I am running into a lot of them, that I hold three or even four of the other team on me for like twenty seconds and...no one takes a zone. If y'all alive and not helping me out and not taking a zone what the heck you doing? lol

This happens ALL the time to me. I'm often fighting 3 or 4 enemies on a point for a solid minute before eventually dying and I discover that my team mates were just killing minions on the minion spawn even though our team held it.

This often leads to me asking them why they aren't helping me fight the enemy team, and them spamming some insults in broken English back.

SendRickPics
05-25-2017, 09:08 PM
In before if only we had old revenge, I still prefer it the way it is.

Then you dumb and don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining.

That's what happens when you put individual skill on the back burner and make it all about the gang-bang cuckery.

CandleInTheDark
05-25-2017, 09:10 PM
Then you dumb and don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining.

That's what happens when you put individual skill on the back burner and make it all about the gang-bang cuckery.

Because I kill you all by pressing y is so skilful :rolleyes:

SendRickPics
05-25-2017, 09:14 PM
Because I kill you all by pressing y is so skilful :rolleyes:

Pressing Y/Triangle doesn't give you any kills, period. It might give you a knockdown or several even, which can lead to a kill. But you still have to land the attacks, which can be blocked and parried, and dodged. You could be crowd control spammed to death, especially now with the Shinobi and Centurion.

It's unimaginative shills like you that irk me with your sound-bite comments.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-25-2017, 09:16 PM
Then you dumb and don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining.

That's what happens when you put individual skill on the back burner and make it all about the gang-bang cuckery.

Do you even try anymore Rhodri? You used to at least be able to put up an argument, but now you just go straight to insulting the person.

People can have opinions that differ from yours, at least attempt to hear him out for Christ's sake.

Antonioj26
05-25-2017, 09:22 PM
Do you even try anymore Rhodri? You used to at least be able to put up an argument, but now you just go straight to insulting the person.

People can have opinions that differ from yours, at least attempt to hear him out for Christ's sake.

Cabbage you are garbage dude, I'm with rhodri on this one. You are the worst player on this forum by far.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-25-2017, 09:26 PM
Cabbage you are garbage dude, I'm with rhodri on this one. You are the worst player on this forum by far.
Ok

SendRickPics
05-25-2017, 09:32 PM
Do you even try anymore Rhodri? You used to at least be able to put up an argument, but now you just go straight to insulting the person.

Oh I try now and again, but you can only try a well reasoned argument so many times before you get tired of people placing their proverbial fingertips in their ears and crying "LA LA LA, CAN'T HEAR YOU, YOU'RE WRONG, I'M RIGHT, LA LA LA!!!" .

Now adays, people complain about the state of 4v4's and gang-banging, and all I can do is smile and feel snarky and vindicated in that I was right, or rather that I was correct in my assumptions that nerfing Revenge Mode would have a mostly negative consequence.

CandleInTheDark
05-25-2017, 09:39 PM
Oh I try now and again, but you can only try a well reasoned argument so many times before you get tired of people placing their proverbial fingertips in their ears and crying "LA LA LA, CAN'T HEAR YOU, YOU'RE WRONG, I'M RIGHT, LA LA LA!!!" .

Now adays, people complain about the state of 4v4's and gang-banging, and all I can do is smile and feel snarky and vindicated in that I was right, or rather that I was correct in my assumptions that nerfing Revenge Mode would have a mostly negative consequence.

Except it is still very playable, I have walked away the winner of 1v3's with a minimum gain and duration build, so it's plenty strong enough when people use it like they still have to play smart as opposed to oh I can just throw attacks blindly now and if they survive that I will get it in another three seconds.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-25-2017, 09:44 PM
Oh I try now and again, but you can only try a well reasoned argument so many times before you get tired of people placing their proverbial fingertips in their ears and crying "LA LA LA, CAN'T HEAR YOU, YOU'RE WRONG, I'M RIGHT, LA LA LA!!!" .

Now adays, people complain about the state of 4v4's and gang-banging, and all I can do is smile and feel snarky and vindicated in that I was right, or rather that I was correct in my assumptions that nerfing Revenge Mode would have a mostly negative consequence.

LA LA LA, CAN'T HEAR YOU, YOU'RE WRONG, I'M RIGHT. LA LA LA!!!

But on a real note, your argument begins to lose its merit the second you start insulting people. I personally disagree with the defence nerf, but the attack nerf was well deserved. imo. Being able to one shot an entire team in one hit as a Shugoki was ridiculous. It really just comes down to the fact teamwork on both sides, is either rewarded, or punished in its current state.

Bad Teamwork and communications? get punished
Good Teamwork taking advantage of bad teamwork? get rewarded

SendRickPics
05-25-2017, 09:46 PM
Except it is still very playable

Never said it was unplayable.

I said that revenge being nerfed as it was has removed any consequences for being a brain-less gang-banger. You're penalized for making a stand, even if you are the better player, the mechanics don't support your attempts at being able to out-perform superior numbers, whereas before they did.

That's different than saying that Revenge Mode itself carried people, it's not some kind of "Explosion" effect that kills everyone around the player (unlike catapult which literally does that and doesn't do much damage on the player who calls it in.)

Revenge Mode was a tool, it maybe popped a little too often, but that could have been adjusted. My issue was with nerfing revenge mode attack and defense stats while also removing how they stacked with standard attack and defense stats, which has taken away most of the mode's potency that discouraged players from carelessly and mindlessly teaming at all times.

Antonioj26
05-25-2017, 10:00 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnFOjYJKx4 Here is the perfect reason why revenge was nerfed. This less than mediocre pk couldn't take on the orochi by himself until he either picked up buffs or if he got revenge and somehow this rather crappy pk was able to take out an entire team. Doesn't make a ton of sense.

Gray360UK
05-25-2017, 10:07 PM
it's not some kind of "Explosion" effect that kills everyone around the player

That's definitely how it worked when I pressed Y on my controller pre-nerf ;)

No point trying to relaunch the Revenge debate Rhodri, we established weeks ago it was a noob crutch and stupidly broken. The 'Yes I killed entire teams while in Revenge mode but it still required skill' argument is well past its sell by date.

SendRickPics
05-25-2017, 10:10 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnFOjYJKx4 Here is the perfect reason why revenge was nerfed. This less than mediocre pk couldn't take on the orochi by himself until he either picked up buffs or if he got revenge and somehow this rather crappy pk was able to take out an entire team. Doesn't make a ton of sense.

That video shows nothing other than a PK that picked up a buff. That's a failure of the Orochi who didn't manage to preempt that tactical decision.

Furthermore the PK managed to side-step heavy + deep gouge, several times. The side-step heavy is one of the most predictable and easily parried moves, and used it to punish an Orochi who tried to spam guardbreak overhead heavy.

What I did see was a PK that used Revenge to spam out the zone-attack cancel, which is SO predictable at this point that anyone with brains should have just simply held their block to the right, or parried it, but even stranger, other than the second Orochi, who tried to fight, the Warden didn't try to swing until it was too late, and the 2nd PK didn't do anything except stand there and die, when they could have been guard-breaking, blocking, dodging, or attacking.


If I didn't watch the matchmaking process, I'd almost think it was staged with how poorly that other team did against a PK. Your video, shows nothing though.

Antonioj26
05-25-2017, 10:16 PM
That video shows nothing other than a PK that picked up a buff. That's a failure of the Orochi who didn't manage to preempt that tactical decision.

Furthermore the PK managed to side-step heavy + deep gouge, several times. The side-step heavy is one of the most predictable and easily parried moves, and used it to punish an Orochi who tried to spam guardbreak overhead heavy.

What I did see was a PK that used Revenge to spam out the zone-attack cancel, which is SO predictable at this point that anyone with brains should have just simply held their block to the right, or parried it, but even stranger, other than the second Orochi, who tried to fight, the Warden didn't try to swing until it was too late, and the 2nd PK didn't do anything except stand there and die, when they could have been guard-breaking, blocking, dodging, or attacking.


If I didn't watch the matchmaking process, I'd almost think it was staged with how poorly that other team did against a PK. Your video, shows nothing though.

If your going to blindly defend this after watching that video than there is nothing that will change your mind. Yeah those players who died were trash but no more so than the pk themselves yet the pk had the advantage that entire time and the enemy team was on their back food the entire time. It didn't matter what they did honestly, the orochi was fighting the him solo towards the end of the second round and then the second pk attacks him once and he is given revenge. Even if they filtered in one at a time the pk was building about half a bar to 2/3rds with each fight so the residual revenge would carry over to the next person. No real solution there and I would like to see you try and GB a Pk that is spamming zone cancels and lights.

SendRickPics
05-25-2017, 11:19 PM
If your going to blindly defend this after watching that video than there is nothing that will change your mind.

Except I'm not "blindly defending" it, I straight up analyzed it and disagreed with your opinion.

The PK player couldn't have "had the advantage the entire time" they were outnumbered, and 2/3rds of that group were just standing there, you can see it in the video!

Furthermore the game mode was ELIMINATION. The Rules of the game are that you either eliminate the entire enemy team, or enough to simply outnumber them as the clock runs out.

They only need 2:1, they had 3:1. They didn't grab buffs, they didn't attack or coordinate as a group, 2 of them were standing there, in close proximity to the Orochi who did engage. They fed revenge, one of them was probably targeting the PK, which grants bonus Revenge gain.


Everything the PK did was legit, in spite of being a bad player, the other players were worse, both coordinating as a group and individually.

Antonioj26
05-25-2017, 11:37 PM
Except I'm not "blindly defending" it, I straight up analyzed it and disagreed with your opinion.

The PK player couldn't have "had the advantage the entire time" they were outnumbered, and 2/3rds of that group were just standing there, you can see it in the video!

Furthermore the game mode was ELIMINATION. The Rules of the game are that you either eliminate the entire enemy team, or enough to simply outnumber them as the clock runs out.

They only need 2:1, they had 3:1. They didn't grab buffs, they didn't attack or coordinate as a group, 2 of them were standing there, in close proximity to the Orochi who did engage. They fed revenge, one of them was probably targeting the PK, which grants bonus Revenge gain.


Everything the PK did was legit, in spite of being a bad player, the other players were worse, both coordinating as a group and individually.

Yes they were standing there because there's a saiyan is whaling on their teammate and attacking the pk isn't going to stop that. in fact it got them killed when they did. They shouldn't have to treat this guy like a raid boss and coordinate to take out a single player, that's an awfully lot of work to take out an unskilled pk.

UbiJurassic
05-25-2017, 11:47 PM
In a perfect world, the Vanguards would hold and clear B, the heavies would hold the point closest to spawn and your assassins would roam together to take points. But in multiplayer, it's a jungle out there.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o6UBpHgaXFDNAuttm/giphy.gif

SendRickPics
05-25-2017, 11:49 PM
Yes they were standing there because there's a saiyan [Exaggeration] is whaling on their teammate and attacking the pk isn't going to stop that(.), <--[Forgot your comma here.] in fact it got them killed when they did [Fabrication, we already discussed that they didn't try to attack, and just stood there and died.]. They shouldn't have to treat this guy like a raid boss and coordinate to take out a single player [Opinion based on an subjective emotional status, the single player shouldn't be without the ability to fight back and win just because the other's chose to outnumber him], that's an awfully lot of work to take out an unskilled pk. [The PK was indeed unskilled, but the people he was up against were far worse as the evidence shows, they didn't even try to defend themselves.

I took your short story and have edited and graded it. Rated 4/10, cool story, but a lot of errors, exaggerations, falsifications, and opinions, few (if any) objective facts.

CandleInTheDark
05-25-2017, 11:49 PM
In a perfect world, the Vanguards would hold and clear B, the heavies would hold the point closest to spawn and your assassins would roam together to take points. But in multiplayer, it's a jungle out there.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o6UBpHgaXFDNAuttm/giphy.gif

Damn right heavies stay on home base. Have you ever tried to take a heavy to opponents' home point after the gear rework? It takes conq half the game (exaggerating but feels like it >.>) to get there.

Antonioj26
05-26-2017, 12:03 AM
I took your short story and have edited and graded it. Rated 4/10, cool story, but a lot of errors, exaggerations, falsifications, and opinions, few (if any) objective facts.

K I'm not going to waste my time, the video speaks for itself. A terrible player was given a An by being in the presence of more than one enemy of approximately equal skill. He got 25 kills without dying once and if the enemies attacked one at a time they would have destroyed him IF revenge didn't build at an absurd rate So much so that it's pointless to attack one at a time just as much as it is jumping him but whatevs, your crutch is gone and that's really the way the story ends. So correct my grammar and frame me as telling an extravagant story when I'm clearly ****ing around with my words all you want, I won this argument a couple patches ago.

SendRickPics
05-26-2017, 12:33 AM
I won this argument a couple patches ago.

YOU didn't "win" anything. But certainly everyone else paid the price and "Lost" due to lack of vision by players like you and Ubisoft's self destructive need to pander.

Because all that "winning" is evident in the amount of times this discussion comes up and how often people find themselves dissatisfied if not outright unhappy with the "Gank Squad" Meta that is 4v4's.

kweassa1917
05-26-2017, 12:39 AM
YOU didn't "win" anything. But certainly everyone else paid the price and "Lost" due to lack of vision by players like you and Ubisoft's self destructive need to pander.

Because all that "winning" is evident in the amount of times this discussion comes up and how often people find themselves dissatisfied if not outright unhappy with the "Gank Squad" Meta that is 4v4's.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8e/b7/04/8eb7047b779b7d6152b2e593c6b1988a.jpg

Antonioj26
05-26-2017, 12:40 AM
YOU didn't "win" anything. But certainly everyone else paid the price and "Lost" due to lack of vision by players like you and Ubisoft's self destructive need to pander.

Because all that "winning" is evident in the amount of times this discussion comes up and how often people find themselves dissatisfied if not outright unhappy with the "Gank Squad" Meta that is 4v4's.

Sure I did l, I wanted revenge changed and you didn't. The result was it changed. I win. If you are going to use people being unhappy about the revenge change then you are also going to have to bring up the people who were dissatisfied with revenge pre nerf. Since we can never know exactly how many are happy or unhappy about the nerf there's no point in bringing it up.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-26-2017, 12:48 AM
In a perfect world, the Vanguards would hold and clear B, the heavies would hold the point closest to spawn and your assassins would roam together to take points. But in multiplayer, it's a jungle out there.

Which why I invariably plant my butt on the point closest to my spawn. My KPM is ATROCIOUS, but my winrate is at 70%.


I will take wins over accolades any day.

Vingrask
05-26-2017, 01:30 AM
Reason why I do not play 4v4 modes. Too much unnorganized chaos. and people cry too much, quit too much, cheese too much.

Maybe with the tournaments, things get better for that lands.

Until there, I will stick with my Duels.

kweassa1917
05-26-2017, 02:51 AM
With my peacekeeper in epic gear, I am working on getting my warden there for the times I see my team filling up with people that leave me, as said peacekeeper, the tankiest class on our team, so I spend a lot of time soldier clearing if I am not holding zone. There are times, and I am running into a lot of them, that I hold three or even four of the other team on me for like twenty seconds and...no one takes a zone. If y'all alive and not helping me out and not taking a zone what the heck you doing? lol

But it's ok, I got us five points accidentally killing those soldiers while dealing with that charlie foxtrot.

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Edit
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In before if only we had old revenge, I still prefer it the way it is.


Here's a little tip to help you brace yourself for bad teams when the match starts.


1. If you see 3~4 people going for the closest side zone at the beginning, then you know you've got a team with at least basic knowledge.

● Repeated games have largely taught people that it's better to begin with the initial renown boost from capturing the side first, which takes like only 2 seconds when it's multiple people... and arriving at the mid a little bit lateisn't going to affect the scores a lot.


2. If you see people going for the closest side zone at the beginning, and then see someone not leaving that place, you're in for a rough ride

● The odds are, no matter how good that guy is in small-scale fights, he's not gonna be around anywhere when the team actually needs his help.
● That guy could do a lot of good if he moves to the opponent's side zone and lures in new respawns everytime.
● But if respawned opponents know he is a good player, and would choose to blow past their side zone, disrupt yours, luring to your team to separate, then he needs to move.


3. If you see assassins doing their "marathon", the chances are, your team is screwed.

● We've had discussions about this topic, but as mentioned assassins are tactically very difficult classes to play.



4. If you feel somehow "confortable" during fights, and seem to always have a 2v1 advantage over the other guy, you're in for a good show

● clearly someone in your team knows how the tactics work, and how important it is to support others ASAP, without sitting around and wasting time
● Chance are, even if just 1 guy in the team that's like that, and it's a fun experience even if your team ultimately loses


5. More than words

● There's a time... rare occasions where you team up with someone you've never seen before, and yet everything you do synergizes so well with that guy.
● Times like these, and you understand what it means when I say, "with enough experience, don't need to actually communicate anything to play good teamwork"
● Most likely an awesome game, win or lose.
● That one time I was partnered with a Lawb, and he knew my gig, I knew his gig. So he flips the pancake, and I flatten it out with the batter. Was awesome fun.

SendRickPics
05-26-2017, 03:09 AM
Sure I did l, I wanted revenge changed and you didn't. The result was it changed. I win. If you are going to use people being unhappy about the revenge change then you are also going to have to bring up the people who were dissatisfied with revenge pre nerf. Since we can never know exactly how many are happy or unhappy about the nerf there's no point in bringing it up.

Christ, it's like talking with a Trump supporter about politics. "I voted for the side that happens to win, so I win and you lose!" like it's some kind of sport.

You had an opinion that Revenge should be nerfed, it was nerfed, but not because you held that opinion. You feel vindicated, but it's not because of anything you at all said or did.



Also there are people who advocated for the revenge nerf who are unhappy with the Gank-Squad Meta that we have now, so your points are moot.

Antonioj26
05-26-2017, 03:10 AM
Christ, it's like talking with a Trump supporter about politics. "I voted for the side that happens to win, so I win and you lose!" like it's some kind of sport.

You had an opinion that Revenge should be nerfed, it was nerfed, but not because you held that opinion. You feel vindicated, but it's not because of anything you at all said or did.



Also there are people who advocated for the revenge nerf who are unhappy with the Gank-Squad Meta that we have now, so your points are moot.

Sounds like a poor sport Hilary supporter.

SendRickPics
05-26-2017, 03:24 AM
Sounds like a poor sport Hilary supporter.

Nice try, I voted Third Party because I'm not a mindless drone. Both parties are owned by the same people.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-26-2017, 03:25 AM
Nice try, I voted Third Party because I'm not a mindless drone. Both parties are owned by the same people.

I wish I could say that you being a conspiracy nut surprises me lol

Egotistic_Ez
05-26-2017, 03:30 AM
You had an opinion that Revenge should be nerfed, it was nerfed, but not because you held that opinion. You feel vindicated, but it's not because of anything you at all said or did.

Not to rain on your parade, but if revenge was nerfed for the same reason(s) that he held then, regardless of whether or not the devs even heard him, his opinion was vindicated and proven correct.

SendRickPics
05-26-2017, 03:31 AM
I wish I could say that you being a conspiracy nut surprises me lol

It's not even a conspiracy, it's all publicly available information that key players in both parties take money from lobbying groups in Saudi Arabia, several big banks, and other lobbying firms. Photographs, disclosed financial documentation, minutes from meetings. It's all there, you just have to read it.

Now saying that the gays have poisoned the water supply to turn all the frogs gay. THAT'S a conspiracy theory, and a cooky one at that.

Antonioj26
05-26-2017, 03:34 AM
Now saying that the gays have poisoned the water supply to turn all the frogs gay. THAT'S a conspiracy theory, and a cooky one at that.

I thought we finally agreed on something and then you pulled the run out from underneath me.

Vingrask
05-26-2017, 04:24 AM
Great job, you guys will lock the discussion.

SendRickPics
05-26-2017, 05:20 AM
Not to rain on your parade, but if revenge was nerfed for the same reason(s) that he held then, regardless of whether or not the devs even heard him, his opinion was vindicated and proven correct.

There's many a times where I've stated quite clearly that the Devs also have stated (During Closed Alpha and Beta) that revenge was BUFFED to act as a counter to gank-squad meta and promote more duels and "honorable" gameplay.

They've flipped on this issue twice now. They are flip-flopping, which to me says that the Devs have NO IDEA what they are doing, and so are just trying to appease whoever cries loudest on the forums. In several of the podcasts/streams they've hosted, they've all but straight up said that everything from balance to game stability, they take their cue from the forum activity.


After how Ubisoft botched The Division, I'd have thought more people would be skeptical of their capabilities as a Studio rather than throwing about such blind faith and touting "The Devs support my opinion" as a credible line.